Oculus Quest + Virtual Desktop= WOOOW

[ryoken]

Hi everyone i will like to share my experience in my last 3 weeks with the oculus quest.  Well has been an amazing time not only for the wonderful vr games... but also for lightgun games using the app virtual  desktop  to stream the pc in to the quest and also emulate the mouse just amazing.  I can't  show how really looks but i can say how it feels to my. To begin you can chose the environment you like.. if you want a movie theater or a floating screen on the space you get it. Looking amazing colors contrast, image quality stunning me i can walk around it make it as big or small i want is just incredible.  Now let's talk about inputs alright here is where we don't have too many options but even do, i could manage to to play model2 emulator and use the trigger of the oculus controller to shoot and the B button to reload.  How it feel to hold a virtual gun.. well is not a virtual gun yet we have instead a virtual  controller  exactly like the real one and it feels like holding  a laser gun aiming with a laser you can hold  and aim in any distance or position no problem with that and accuracy and response speed is better than any real solution for Lcd  out there. Even try with the ps3 camera tracking  a laser and let me say oculus quest  it feels completely superior.

[SammyWI]

Is this the app you are using?  https://store.steampowered.com/app/382110/Virtual_Desktop/
What makes this better that the built in virtual desktop in Steam VR?

[ryoken]

The app is from oculus store. But because I'm using  the oculus  quest. If you have a pc vr headset  then  yes the one from the link you post is the right one

[SammyWI]

So I tried this out on my Vive using the SteamVR built in desktop as well as using a free virtual desktop app called MultiVR.se.  It was a lot more fun than I expected.  Using the Vive controllers with the laser pointer mouse control doesn't feel a lot like a gun, except maybe a Star Trek phaser.  Maybe the Oculus controllers have the pointer angled down more?  And I need to get a better way to get key presses into the game.  But overall it's a lot of fun.  Nice big bright screen.  Plenty responsive and accurate.  Shoot off screen reloading works in MAME. 

[2huwman]

I tried this using my Rift S and Model 2 emulator, and it works well. I used the built in Rift virtual desktop, but haven't tried it with any other virtual desktops.

The Touch controller had the LMB already mapped to A, so shooting was fine. I couldn't remap RMB for reload in the short time I played, so just used a wireless mouse for that. But aiming with the Touch controller was pin-point accurate, and it was great being able to play HoTD on a big virtual screen.

It would be good to be able to hide the rest of the virtual desktop background. Might be easy to do but I couldn't find a way.

I'm sure that the right person could write hacks/wrappers etc. for the main emulators with shooting games to have this as a supported way of playing!

[SammyWI]

Another app to try for this is Bigscreen Beta.  It's free on Steam and works well.  Plenty of customization and runs stable.  Also on Vive the pointers are angled down a bit more so it points closer to a gun.  In game controller models are hands so it looks like you are shooting a finger gun. 

So far in any program I've tried none of the virtual keyboards will work in MAME.  I've had to use a wireless keyboard for admin functions. 

[DudeRegular]

Trying to get this to run with my Samsung Odyssey+ Windows Mixed reality setup. I have tried both the steam vr desktop and the bigscreen beta. I have mame setup to aim with the mouse and fire with left click. I am not having any luck getting the controllers to do anything though. The triggers don't appear in the mame tab menu to setup controls at all.

Any thoughts?

[2huwman]

I've been playing around with this some more and have to say it's well worth trying if you've got a VR headset. As the OP said, Virtual Desktop (which is in the Steam store and the Oculus store) works really well. It's been the best of the options I've tried - easiest to setup and reassign mouse buttons etc.

I've been focusing mainly on the HotD series, and have all 5 games working well. Advantages are:

-a screen as big as you want, and as near or as far as you want.
-pinpoint accuracy
-very responsive/low lag (as far as I can tell)
-no flashing screen when you shoot

You can also add stereoscopic 3d using Depth3d (which works really well), and obviously any widescreen hacks that the emulator or PC version might have!

[Zebra]

Please can you post some pics of the set-up? I'm curious about VRs use for old light gun games.

The arcade I went to a few months ago had a large area roped off for some kind of VR light gun / FPS game. It looked interesting (but not $15/game interesting...). I guess I'm more excited about VRs potential for actual VR games. Perhaps I just have the wrong impression of how it works and feels to play Virtua Cop with an Oculus. I'd like to see for myself.

In my head, you're stood there wearing a plastic hat with mini LCD screens staring at a fake large screen holding a banana. Is there a specific advantage over using the cash you'd spend on Oculus kit to instead buy a projector and an arcade recoil gun?

Are there any decent newer VR light gun style games yet?  I am assuming the virtual Virtua Cop thing was a happy accident and that actual VR games was why you bought it?

[2huwman]

Sure, I'll take some video of what you see in the headset, but it's basically the Oculus Touch controller with a 'laser pointer' and circle where it's hitting the virtual screen (both of these can be turned off), and then the game screen hanging in a giant void! One of the benefits of Virtual Desktop is that it handles fullscreen modes well (borderless as well as normal fullscreen), whereas the other apps I've tried have tended to struggle. Would be great if the controller you see could be replaced with a model of a Sega AM blaster!

The benefits over an Aimtrack for example seem to be mainly accuracy, but also that you don't have to be in the exact position you calibrated it. Also that you can turn off the annoying white screen flashes you have to have with CRTs for games like HotD1.

PC VR lightgun games that I've tried that have been pretty good are Operation Warcade as well as the Dick Wilde series on PSVR. But yeah, I got the Rift for 'normal' VR games, of which there are many excellent examples (Wipeout on PSVR, and Lone Echo on Rift are my current favourites).

[Zebra]

Sure, I'll take some video of what you see in the headset, but it's basically the Oculus Touch controller with a 'laser pointer' and circle where it's hitting the virtual screen (both of these can be turned off), and then the game screen hanging in a giant void! One of the benefits of Virtual Desktop is that it handles fullscreen modes well (borderless as well as normal fullscreen), whereas the other apps I've tried have tended to struggle. Would be great if the controller you see could be replaced with a model of a Sega AM blaster!

The benefits over an Aimtrack for example seem to be mainly accuracy, but also that you don't have to be in the exact position you calibrated it. Also that you can turn off the annoying white screen flashes you have to have with CRTs for games like HotD1.

PC VR lightgun games that I've tried that have been pretty good are Operation Warcade as well as the Dick Wilde series on PSVR. But yeah, I got the Rift for 'normal' VR games, of which there are many excellent examples (Wipeout on PSVR, and Lone Echo on Rift are my current favourites).

It certainly has some exciting potential. I'm waiting to be able to fly like Iron man which is apparently in the works.

I still worry about it being a short-lived and short supported novelty item. As a general point, people don't seem to like wearing peripherals on their head or face, even it's just lightweight 3d glasses. They need to create (and properly market) some games that are so good that gamers can't live without it. Kinda like what Street Fighter 2 did for the Snes.

I don't have to worry about accuracy as I use Sega arcade IR guns and real arcade light guns. I'm a purist when it comes to old light gun games. There is definitely room for both options though.

I'm going to check out the VR light gun games you mentioned.

On the VR gun controller, can't you the electronics from your existing controllers into an arcade recoil gun shell?

[Howard_Casto]

I realize that vr systems on the pc side of things are more sophisticated, but I'm going through Rush of Blood on the psvr and while fun, it seems to suffer from the exact same issues we have using camera based guns in a non vr capacity.  When it works it's fun and I think it's worth the hassle to get it to work, but much like the wiimote sometimes the guns will get mal-aligned and you'll have to either compensate by aiming wrong or put your arms to their sides to re-calibrate.  I think considering the extreme expense to get a pc vr setup (expensive pc + expensive headset) I'd be leery about jumping aboard just for the light gun games. 

[Zebra]

How does the Oculus VR "light gun" aiming work?

As the screen moves when you move your head, you're not mounting sensors around the LCD or aiming a gun camera at it. Does it just use an accelerometer like an air mouse?

Or is it a camera pointed at you holding a dildo like the PS Move? My PS Move stays calibrated properly for approximately 20 seconds before it's too off to use without visible crosshairs on-screen. The Wii remote lasts a little longer but it's basically just as bad.

[2huwman]

I've uploaded a capture of the headset playing through the first level of HotD2. You can see the Touch controller and I've left the 'laser' line and contact points in so you can see it registering with the virtual screen (they're easy to turn off in the Virtual Desktop settings. At the end of the level I move the controller around in view so you can see how it lines up. It's basically perfect and doesn't have the tracking issues that the PSVR camera has.



When you're actually wearing the headset the screen stays still and you just look around it as though it's a real object. It fills up pretty much my whole field of vision (as much as the Rift does, anyway), although you can obviously increase or decrease the size of the screen and have it as near or as far (virtually!) as you want.

I messed up the boss at the end of the level, but you can see it's very responsive. The capture isn't that high res and may only be 30fps, but the game's really running 60fps and is smooth as you like! I'm going to try to get it running widesceen and with stereoscopic 3D for further immersion!

[Toasty833]

I realize that vr systems on the pc side of things are more sophisticated, but I'm going through Rush of Blood on the psvr and while fun, it seems to suffer from the exact same issues we have using camera based guns in a non vr capacity.  When it works it's fun and I think it's worth the hassle to get it to work, but much like the wiimote sometimes the guns will get mal-aligned and you'll have to either compensate by aiming wrong or put your arms to their sides to re-calibrate.  I think considering the extreme expense to get a pc vr setup (expensive pc + expensive headset) I'd be leery about jumping aboard just for the light gun games.

PSVR is using the same IR camera based move stuff that they had on the PS3 for TC4 and HotD4, which didn't work then and I can't imagine it working now, although I've never tried the system with PSVR. It's just too imprecise.

OR uses a multi camera setup which is much more accurate, although I haven't tried it, and Valve's lighthouse tracking used on the Vive and Index has a positioning accuracy of less than 2mm, and I've never had an issue with using it for iron sights games. I certainly can't tell any difference in terms of accuracy, if there is any then the fact you're lining up with the virtual model instead of your actual hand eliminates any discrepancy.

I'd say the only real issue right now isn't the tracking, but the resolution. It can be tough to get a decent sight picture at times, depending on the model you're looking at.

they're easy to turn off in the Virtual Desktop settings.

The problem I've found with virtual desktop is that I can't work out how to swap out my controller model for a gun. If I could do that, the program would be close to ideal, all I'd need to do would be to set up each game individually and launch a frontend for it.

As is, without the ability to line up shots, it's not much better than an Aimtrak, because you're stuck using the laser pointer if you want any accuracy. EmuVR has a gun model, but it's a very poor zapper one, and you're forced to play with screen filters and a fully modeled room sapping your CPU cycles, non-adjustable screen sizes aside from a few presets, you have to fiddle around with unplugging consoles and inserting carts if you want to switch games, and you're limited to only retroarch titles.

New retro arcade has a slightly better gun model, but the screens are tiny, it's MAME only, and you can only have a single light gun game in your arcade at once, which is just insanity. Hopefully, VR takes off at some point and we'll get something like Virtual Desktop with effectively universal support and lightgun models. Or, ideally, full on 3D support, but that's probably just a fantasy.

[2huwman]

How does the Oculus VR "light gun" aiming work?

As the screen moves when you move your head, you're not mounting sensors around the LCD or aiming a gun camera at it. Does it just use an accelerometer like an air mouse?

Or is it a camera pointed at you holding a dildo like the PS Move? My PS Move stays calibrated properly for approximately 20 seconds before it's too off to use without visible crosshairs on-screen. The Wii remote lasts a little longer but it's basically just as bad.

I don't know all the details, but I think the Rift S has 5 'inside out' tracking cameras on the headset, and the touch controllers then have leds on them as well as accelerometers. Not my video, but this is an example of it working well on Onward:

[Zebra]

Can it be used without any visible crosshairs on-screen? It looks like you can't see your gun while wearing the headset.

When most of us here talk about "light gun accuracy", we're talking about the ability to aim with the guns iron sights and have shots land where we aim consistently like you can with a real light gun.

If you have crosshairs on-screen then accuracy becomes irrelevant as you stop aiming and just point n click like you're using a mouse. Games like HOD2 and HOD3 had no on-screen crosshairs in the arcade.

[2huwman]

Yeah you can just play with iron sights. Depends on the game:

[Zebra]

Yeah you can just play with iron sights. Depends on the game:

How does that work if you're wearing the headset which covers your view of the iron sights? Is it a virtual Iron sight that you use?

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a virtual iron sight. Part of me would be intrigued but another part would see it as cheating and not much different to on-screen crosshairs. I.e. You'd still have the challenge of making it line up with the gun you're holding even if you can't see it.

There's only one solution. We all need to get 360 degree wrap-around dome (or sphere) projection screens custom made for VR gun games so we can see the actual gun we're holding.

I'm thinking the spare room the inlaws use would be much better as my VR dome screen room!

[2huwman]

Yeah, the iron sights are virtual - the whole gun is! If you watch the first video I linked to, you can see the guy in the window in the bottom left corner with the headset on, holding the controllers up to his face, doing the reloading actions, etc. Everything on the main video is what he sees in the headset. What doesn't come across well in the videos is that everything is in stereoscopic 3d, just like real life!

You really don't need to worry about whether the iron sights are real or virtual - your brain perceives the virtual gun as a 3d object in 3d space, so it's the same experience as in real life (as long as the virtual gun tracks the position of the real controllers well, and it's very low lag - which are both true now). So it doesn't feel like cheating at all.

[Zebra]

Yeah, the iron sights are virtual - the whole gun is! If you watch the first video I linked to, you can see the guy in the window in the bottom left corner with the headset on, holding the controllers up to his face, doing the reloading actions, etc. Everything on the main video is what he sees in the headset. What doesn't come across well in the videos is that everything is in stereoscopic 3d, just like real life!

You really don't need to worry about whether the iron sights are real or virtual - your brain perceives the virtual gun as a 3d object in 3d space, so it's the same experience as in real life (as long as the virtual gun tracks the position of the real controllers well, and it's very low lag - which are both true now). So it doesn't feel like cheating at all.

That does sound cool. I'd definitely be interested to try it at some point.

Plus, anything that generates renewed interest in the light gun genre is a good thing. I like the idea of this sort of innovation a lot more than what I see with the PDP Mars product which I see as a step backwards.

I was looking at the first home light guns from the 70's on ebay recently and their design has literally been getting progressively worse with every generation. The home guns being made for VR actually look promising (in terms of looks) which is nice to see.

[2huwman]

Yeah some of the new games are definitely worth checking out if you have access to PC based VR. The PSVR tracking just isn't reliable enough (but I had quite a lot of fun with Farpoint on PSVR with the PSVR AIM controller anyway).

Also, do most people use iron sights when playing lightgun games? I basically never do - even when I'm playing on my HotD arcade machine, or Time Crisis 2 on the PS2 with a Guncon, I tend to hold the gun at chest height with my arm mostly straightened. I find I can be accurate enough holding the gun that way, and it makes it easier to move the gun quickly from one target to the next which is key in these games.

[Zebra]

Yeah some of the new games are definitely worth checking out if you have access to PC based VR. The PSVR tracking just isn't reliable enough (but I had quite a lot of fun with Farpoint on PSVR with the PSVR AIM controller anyway).

Also, do most people use iron sights when playing lightgun games? I basically never do - even when I'm playing on my HotD arcade machine, or Time Crisis 2 on the PS2 with a Guncon, I tend to hold the gun at chest height with my arm mostly straightened. I find I can be accurate enough holding the gun that way, and it makes it easier to move the gun quickly from one target to the next which is key in these games.

How a player holds the gun is besides the point. What matters is if the light gun is capable of accuracy and consistency or if you have to play with crosshairs on-screen on arcade games that didn't have them.

As a side point, holding and aiming a real light gun properly on games where accuracy matters improves performance. If I don't, I usually miss difficult shots immediately after shooting off-screen to reload. Learning to get better and 1cc a light gun game is what gives it replay value imo.

[2huwman]

How a player holds the gun is besides the point. What matters is if the light gun is capable of accuracy and consistency or if you have to play with crosshairs on-screen on arcade games that didn't have them.

As a side point, holding and aiming a real light gun properly on games where accuracy matters improves performance. If I don't, I usually miss difficult shots immediately after shooting off-screen to reload. Learning to get better and 1cc a light gun game is what gives it replay value imo.

Of course accuracy is key, I'm just genuinely interested if people normally use iron sights to aim, as I almost never do.

[Howard_Casto]

It depends upon the game.  Some games have some ridiculously small targets and for those I might actually aim, but generally I just shoot from the hip as targets on most games are large.  Most of your sega games can be beaten by just shooting in the center constantly.  I kind of ruins the magic once you discover that. 

[2huwman]

Come to think of it, I remember aiming down the sights on those Point Blank levels where you've got one bullet to shoot a feather or an alien. So I guess if I've got time to line it up and only one shot then I do use them.

I'm going to try to complete HotD and Virtua Cop 2 by just shooting at the middle of the screen...I'm skeptical, but we'll see how far I get.

I guess you can get some way in Street Fighter 2 by button mashing, but you're missing the point if that's all you do.

[Zebra]

Most of the best light gun games (IMO) require accuracy and proper aiming. None require it for every shot though. The baddies closest to you in Time Crisis 3 can be hit easily but if you want to hit all of the parachuting in guys, or the guys in the distance in Virtua Cop 2, you have to aim (if you intend to get good enough to 1cc it).

A lot depends on the size of the screen and how far you stand from it too. It's obviously going to be hard to play properly if you stand with your nose pressed to the glass of a tiny 19" screen. It becomes too easy and aiming is pointless. It's not much fun when you cheat.

Even in games that don't require precision like machine gun games, I still find it annoying when shots don't land where I aim. It changes the feel of the game for the worse.

[2huwman]

Most of the best light gun games (IMO) require accuracy and proper aiming. None require it for every shot though. The baddies closest to you in Time Crisis 3 can be hit easily but if you want to hit all of the parachuting in guys, or the guys in the distance in Virtua Cop 2, you have to aim (if you intend to get good enough to 1cc it).

A lot depends on the size of the screen and how far you stand from it too. It's obviously going to be hard to play properly if you stand with your nose pressed to the glass of a tiny 19" screen. It becomes too easy and aiming is pointless. It's not much fun when you cheat.

Even in games that don't require precision like machine gun games, I still find it annoying when shots don't land where I aim. It changes the feel of the game for the worse.

I could not agree more! I love games like the HotD series where if you want to get a big score you need to shoot a lot of background objects, and time your bursts of fire well to beat the bosses (and not just shoot in the middle of the screen!).

I think playing HotD 1 using VR and Virtual Desktop is my preferred way to play it now! I can consistently score over 70,000 on it that way, which I struggle to do on the arcade. I think the reason is I can shoot faster with the Oculus Touch controllers than with the real light gun, and i don't have to shoot off screen to reload (which I guess is cheating a bit!).

Here's a quick video of HotD1 using VR (the video stutters a bit, but it's actually silky-smooth when playing). I'm using the widescreen hack with the Model 2 Emulator (you can't actually register shots in the extra screen real-estate, but it looks more panoramic). And if you press F7 the emulator disables non polygon stuff, including the very annoying white flashes that the arcade uses to register the light gun (it also removes the HUD, including life counter etc). Another cool thing to try is using ReShade and the SuperDepth3D plugin, as that gives pretty much perfect stereoscopic 3D in VR headsets. You've got to play with the settings, but you can get nice depth to the image.

[mike5im5]

Just adding my 2 cents to this discussion as I see a lot of scepticism about VR and this genre (sorry for the long rant).

I loved light gun games in particular the virtual cop and time crisis series. Wasn't such a fan of HOTD for some reason. I liked the slower tactical approach I guess. I have 2 aimtracks and am relatively happy they some enjoyment from these games if not slightly compromised.

I've had an Oculas Quest for 2 weeks now and although I've tried a number of different genre's the shooting ones have given me the most pick up and play appeal. Let me just say to the skeptics.. it's the REAL deal, no question, a massive step up for the gun/shooting genre. Some notes:

1. Expense - I don't think £399 is any way too expensive. I upgrade my phone probably every 3-4 years and find it shocking people regularly upgrade their phones annually for £1000+. For the quality of the hardware and the all-in-one ready to use nature I think it's good value. I'm not saying £399 is cheap by any means but I think if people are spending £200+ on hotos or driving wheels it's not over priced.

2. Aiming Accuracy - I've found it to be more than adequate.. I regularly switch from aiming down sights to switching to shooting from the chest (and using tracers to accurately adjust) both really effective and most importantly fun.

3. Tracking - Now this is the real game changer, the first game I tried was a free side loaded game called Crisis VRigade. It's so ---gosh-darn--- fun. I can't describe what a difference being able to move your head/body makes for an on the rails shooter. Think virtua cop gfx, time crisis cover but updated. so you duck behind a police car for cover, then aim through gaps in the doors/windows to try an snip criminals, or reach your hand out fire off a few cover shots before standing up and blasting everyone with a single clip if you think you're fast/accurate enough. Thoroughly recommended, and I find it hard to go back to those oldies that I loved so much now I've tried this.

4. Immersion - The play in the environment however you want really makes it appeal to whatever style you play. I spend time admiring the weapons in my hands sometimes, moving switches between single burst, safety, playing with the stock. The other game I've been spending time on is Gun Club VR. So much content, loads of different weapons and you use them how you want. Shooting from the hip, using iron sights, upgrading them, dual welding, trying to speed up reload, dropping the clip or wrenching it out to speed up time. Hold the pistol side ways gangsta style if that's your thing. Still works and very satisfying.

So for those who haven't tried it. I'd whole heartedly recommend VR. It's not for everybody, but I really feel it works for this genre and I hope devs bring out more great content.

[SammyWI]

...
3. Tracking - Now this is the real game changer, the first game I tried was a free side loaded game called Crisis VRigade. It's so ---gosh-darn--- fun.
...

Thanks for the recommendation on this game.  Looks like it's on Steam for $10 on all the major Steam supported VR headsets.  And Crisis VRigade 2 is 'coming soon'.

[Warborg]

At the risk of being a thread necro, those of you that are playing lightgun games in VR check out EmuVR.  Lets you build a virtual room, set up virtual consoles and such and use any emu you want, and use virtual lightguns.

[DJRobbyD]

Tried this at ops reccomendation... not a fan. If you dont have an actual cabinet or lightguns its just ok. hotd on model 2 works but the trigger and reload seem a little slow and sluggish and the pointer for oculus tough controllers make it feel weaird and out of place. dont get your hopes up.

[2huwman]

Tried this at ops reccomendation... not a fan. If you dont have an actual cabinet or lightguns its just ok. hotd on model 2 works but the trigger and reload seem a little slow and sluggish and the pointer for oculus tough controllers make it feel weaird and out of place. dont get your hopes up.

I guess it's not for everyone, but I do have an actual HotD arcade cabinet, and find the VR experience better in some ways compared to the cab. Being able to get rid of the annoying white flash every time you pull the trigger is a huge relief. The trigger and reload don't seem laggy in my VR setup (but I guess an emulator is going to have at least some lag compared to original hardware). I can also fire faster with the Oculus Touch buttons in comparison to the arcade gun trigger (and obviously reload quicker without having to point off-screen).

As I said above, you can turn off the laser pointer in VR, so it won't feel weird or out of place!