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Author Topic: Asrock DeskMini A300  (Read 8383 times)

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2019, 05:37:33 am »
Regarding the lack of interlace support, is it an APU issue, or a DAC issue ? Quite hard to tell ...
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2019, 05:54:44 am »
Regarding the lack of interlace support, is it an APU issue, or a DAC issue ? Quite hard to tell ...

Good question. I don't know  :)

But when I tried DP->VGA dongles, interlaced modes looked scrambled. These motherboards might be using similar chips as the dongles, so my theory is that AMD knowing this issue prevents support of interlace modes to avoid this. Who knows.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2019, 09:10:52 am »
Take this with a grain of salt, but it might be either an APU issue or a driver limitation. Someone should look into this and spend some time to understand what's wrong with it.
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2019, 05:57:01 pm »
Don't want to be that guy, but as krick pointed not long ago; today you can have an i3-9100F at 90, a monster for the price, with a 70 micro-ATX mobo (even the H310C aka H310 R2.0 that support W7), and any of the AMD gpu's supported by CRT-Emudriver (even still several low profiles easily found if volume is a concern)

So I don't understand the persistance for AMD APUs considering the known poorer performance in MAME and - now further confirmed but we saw it coming - significant potential for issues and limitations.

I agree that this is not an obvious or smart choice for an emulation box. If the aim is to build a cheap and tiny mame-only box that outputs analog RGB at native res, that niche is already filled very well with the Raspberry Pi. If it doesn't have to be tiny, you can get a better used mini ITX setup for less as you said. If it doesn't need analog RGB, mame will run well on almost any decent smart phone these days.

I use my phone and tablet for mame when I travel (which is the only time I need my mame box to be tiny). Mame really doesn't need much horsepower to run well:

Mortal Kombat 3 on my phone:

SF2 CE, Ridge Racer 2 and Final Fight on my tablet:


I think most of us here would want the option to do more than just mame though. Most of the emulators of more up to date systems like Dreamcast / Naomi require a decent CPU and GPU to run well. If saving space is the goal, it's usually better to have one machine instead of two. I haven't managed this myself yet though.

Even though GM now works with some fairly powerful AMD GPUs, some of the newer PC based arcades in Teknoparrot seem to need an Nvidia GPU to run well. I've concluded that this hobby just doesn't lend it self to space-saving minimalism. We all need at least 2 PCs as a minimum. Unless you have s teeny tiny house, there no need to worry about space.

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2019, 06:45:15 pm »
I'm all about saving space...
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2019, 03:17:33 am »
I agree that this is not an obvious or smart choice for an emulation box. If the aim is to build a cheap and tiny mame-only box that outputs analog RGB at native res, that niche is already filled very well with the Raspberry Pi. If it doesn't have to be tiny, you can get a better used mini ITX setup for less as you said. If it doesn't need analog RGB, mame will run well on almost any decent smart phone these days.t 2 PCs as a minimum. Unless you have s teeny tiny house, there no need to worry about space.

I beg you guys not to start a debate in this thread, I'd like to keep it focused on the APU builds subject. I do *know* there are cheapest options if you're going to build a pc for emulation. Just the ram required for this box is specific and expensive. I'm not trying to sell anything, that's why I highlighted the many issues I've found.

The point is to explore the possibilities of this new hardware. Whether this is a viable route or not. It's a matter of time these APUs get cheaper, and I'd like to have things ready to support them properly, as long as it's possible. That's why I spend time and cash on it. If I was just thinking on making an optimal use of cash then I'd go for one of the already verified risk-free hardware combinations.

I totally agree that saving space obsession is all part of this permanent teeny nomad lifestyle that's a side effect of the housing bubble that has devastated the western world.

But it's also true that many users are simply reluctant to having a dedicated true pc for emulation and for this reason they're embracing things like the Pi. Most do it just because it's cheap whether they admit it or not, they won't be interested on this. Others might see this tiny setups as an appealing alternative, that can properly run games with frame delay, supports Freesync, etc.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2019, 05:43:30 am »
Quote
In Linux, the first thing you need to know is that these APUs are NOT supported by the old "radeon" driver, but by the new "amdgpu" one. Once you have the correct driver, you need to know that the VGA output is actually DP-3 from the kernel point of view. So now in the kernel boot line you have to add "video=DP-3:640x240ec", and in the kernel patches for custom resolutions you need to add 640x240, since this hardware does not support interlace. In X, DP-3 maps as "DisplayPort-2", etc. I've tried all this with the help of Ves, and aside of the issue with interlaced not existing, everything else works once you figure this out.
Just regarding the interlace stuff and as I'm more interestde in the linux part: amdgpu is not a problem, and X is supposed to work without configuration (unless you had to force resolution at boot). The interesting thing would be to know if EDID emulation works or not, if we can trick to have a 640x480i or eventually 640x240p whihc means configuration-less X. This would avoid kernel patching. So far, I guess we never had the opportunity to test amdgpu GFX cards, and see if it supports interlace or not. I wanted to buy a R5 card, haven't done it yet ...

Maybe if we knew which chip makes the DP -> VGA conversion, we could find if interlace is a hardware limitation or a driver problem.
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2019, 06:05:02 am »
I don't think the R5 is supported by amdgpu, take care. The tricky part is probably amdgpu only supports already digital-only cards.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2019, 10:05:28 am »
This is partially true : you can enable amdgpu compatibility for Southern Islands en Sea Islands GPUs (Rx 200 is part of Sea Islands). Real native support starts for Rx 300 series (aka Volcano Islands)

source https://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/ + https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/AMDGPU#Feature_support + https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AMDGPU#Enable_Southern_Islands_(SI)_and_Sea_Islands_(CIK)_support
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2019, 11:09:49 am »
Interesting, so you need to build a kernel specifically for this:

Code: [Select]
Enable Southern Islands (SI) and Sea Islands (CIK) support
The linux package enables AMDGPU support for cards of the Southern Islands (SI) and Sea Islands (CIK). When building or compiling a kernel, CONFIG_DRM_AMDGPU_SI=Y and/or CONFIG_DRM_AMDGPU_CIK=Y should be be set in the config.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2019, 11:52:30 am »
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2019, 11:55:51 am »
So this should be enough?

Code: [Select]
/etc/modprobe.d/amdgpu.conf
options amdgpu si_support=1
options amdgpu cik_support=0

/etc/modprobe.d/radeon.conf
options radeon si_support=0
options radeon cik_support=0
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2019, 03:22:46 pm »
As they are loaded at initramfs in GroovyArcade, i'd rather add the options in the kernel command line. Otherwise you must make sure the .conf files are added to the initramfs.

Edit : this means to add the files to the FILES in /etc/mkinitcpio.conf. Once booted, you can check it is set with cat /sys/modules/amdgpu/parameters/cik_support /sys/modules/amdgpu/parameters/si_support
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 04:27:41 pm by Substring »
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2020, 04:08:31 am »
I have an important update on this topic: interlaced is confirmed to be supported by this hardware, it's just disabled in the drivers.

I managed to enable interlace support on Linux (amdgpu driver) for this specific hardware (DCN 1), through a kernel patch. Thanks to Substring for educating me on kernel modification.

After this modification, this board can do any low dotclock mode through its VGA connector, both progressive and interlace.

I doubt an equivalent patch can be ported to the Windows drivers, because it's not a trivial hack. So anyone using this hardware should consider Linux definitely.

My understanding is this same patch should work on the 3400G. Newer APUs will need a different patch.

There are still some issues, like tearing on stretching, probably related to amdgpu drivers, that will need further investigation.

I've attached the patch for kernel 5.9.9.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2020, 06:40:50 am »
I've been also thinking of going with an A300 and tossing one of my 3400g's inside and run hyperspin on it in my Arcade DoubleUp project after I finish shooting my videos on the Pi project in it ATM. I love that compact size, plan on pulling the board and running it open air. Would love to get one of those 4000 series APU's, but dang are they pricey ATM, gonna wait a bit on it. Pretty cool what you have done with it so far Calamity.

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2021, 11:30:54 am »
I have an important update on this topic: interlaced is confirmed to be supported by this hardware, it's just disabled in the drivers.

I managed to enable interlace support on Linux (amdgpu driver) for this specific hardware (DCN 1), through a kernel patch. Thanks to Substring for educating me on kernel modification.

After this modification, this board can do any low dotclock mode through its VGA connector, both progressive and interlace.

I doubt an equivalent patch can be ported to the Windows drivers, because it's not a trivial hack. So anyone using this hardware should consider Linux definitely.

My understanding is this same patch should work on the 3400G. Newer APUs will need a different patch.

There are still some issues, like tearing on stretching, probably related to amdgpu drivers, that will need further investigation.

I've attached the patch for kernel 5.9.9.

This is fantastic news as it applies to all Ryzen APUs, not just Deskminis.  I do have a Deskmini in my household but already have an i5 6500 box in my cab, so I probably wont be tinkering.  Do you know if all the native 240p resolutions pretty much work now in Linux with this new development?

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2021, 12:12:53 pm »
Do you know if all the native 240p resolutions pretty much work now in Linux with this new development?

Yes, all low resolution modes that I've tested work so far. However, progressive modes already worked without this patch. What this patch allows is having an interlaced desktop or frontend that is readable at 15 kHz.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2021, 03:56:15 pm »
I have an important update on this topic: interlaced is confirmed to be supported by this hardware, it's just disabled in the drivers.

I managed to enable interlace support on Linux (amdgpu driver) for this specific hardware (DCN 1), through a kernel patch. Thanks to Substring for educating me on kernel modification.

After this modification, this board can do any low dotclock mode through its VGA connector, both progressive and interlace.

I doubt an equivalent patch can be ported to the Windows drivers, because it's not a trivial hack. So anyone using this hardware should consider Linux definitely.

My understanding is this same patch should work on the 3400G. Newer APUs will need a different patch.

There are still some issues, like tearing on stretching, probably related to amdgpu drivers, that will need further investigation.

I've attached the patch for kernel 5.9.9.

I hope all the final issues get worked out. I've always hoped we'd reach a point where I could build a contained stand alone arcade stick that supports groovymame and the only I/O being power input and component video output to connect to an old TV. This Arock A300 motherboard looks small enough to accomplish that.

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2021, 06:31:48 am »
I've always hoped we'd reach a point where I could build a contained stand alone arcade stick that supports groovymame and the only I/O being power input and component video output to connect to an old TV. This Arock A300 motherboard looks small enough to accomplish that.

I'll be excited to see that happen too. There is already a GreenAntz transcoder whizzing its way towards you now, but if you wanted I could do a special build where I leave the triple RCA gang (component output plugs) off, unsoldered, separate. That way you could keep everything internal and reposition the RCA gang wherever you like, say an output panel of your design. Or I could supply you with separate RCA panel-mount plugs for your control panel instead of the default RCA gang.

That would help you fulfill this idea: "the only I/O being power input and component output".

Obviously you'd need to do some basic soldering yourself, just a few wires, merely putting the options out there.
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2021, 01:49:26 am »
http://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/Mars%204000U%20Series/index.asp

This one has a VGA connector too and it's tiny. I don't see anywhere to buy one though, I guess it just launched in November?


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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2021, 05:57:33 am »
The collaborative groovyarcade release 2021.01 has Calamity.s DCN1 interlaced patch
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2021, 10:49:57 pm »
So i have a 3400g and then newest collaborative groovymame. im using a retrotek vgactv2 to get component to a consumer panasonic CRT. The setup screen displays correctly but attractmode doesnt. desktop displays at 720x480i but disconnects every couple seconds. retroarch menu works perfect at 480i or 240p, but when games start it switches to correct resolutions but disconnects every couple seconds

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2021, 01:32:38 am »
So i have a 3400g and then newest collaborative groovymame. im using a retrotek vgactv2 to get component to a consumer panasonic CRT. The setup screen displays correctly but attractmode doesnt. desktop displays at 720x480i but disconnects every couple seconds. retroarch menu works perfect at 480i or 240p, but when games start it switches to correct resolutions but disconnects every couple seconds

Seems like a sync issue. It might be to do with the vgatv2 box as it generates own sync. Even for better transcoders, if generated composite sync signals aren't "clean" enough they can create "glitches" around the vertical sync period which can cause your momentary loss of sync. Some TVs are fussier than others.

I get this exact issue with one of my component TVs if I try to use composite sync out of CRTEMU. However, it works fine with my GreenAntz RGB/VGA to component transcoders! GreenAntz sync generation includes a deglitch filter and cleanly integrates sync with luma (Y).

To help rule other issues out, you might try running CRTEMU with a conservative monitor preset such as the NTSC (60hz) preset when generating /installing modes and see if you get the same issues. Try 640x480i for desktop. You could also experiment with using composite sync out of CRTEMU, it might work better with your TV, but I'm not sure how well the vgatv2 transcoder will deal with it.
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2021, 11:54:37 am »
Seems like a sync issue. It might be to do with the vgatv2 box as it generates own sync. Even for better transcoders, if generated composite sync signals aren't "clean" enough they can create "glitches" around the vertical sync period which can cause your momentary loss of sync. Some TVs are fussier than others.

I get this exact issue with one of my component TVs if I try to use composite sync out of CRTEMU. However, it works fine with my GreenAntz RGB/VGA to component transcoders! GreenAntz sync generation includes a deglitch filter and cleanly integrates sync with luma (Y).

To help rule other issues out, you might try running CRTEMU with a conservative monitor preset such as the NTSC (60hz) preset when generating /installing modes and see if you get the same issues. Try 640x480i for desktop. You could also experiment with using composite sync out of CRTEMU, it might work better with your TV, but I'm not sure how well the vgatv2 transcoder will deal with it.


yeah so it could be a sync issue but its hard to test. im also awful with linux so i could just have to set it up way better

im not too good with linux but im not sure how to change the resolution, the on ly ones exposed are 640x480p or 720x480i
and under groovyarcade change resolution it either says doesnt support low dotclock, or doesnt need resolution change.

Im using the linux build of groovyarcade with Calamitys kernel patch to support interlaced resolutions. the deskmini doesnt work with windows/Crtemu.

Ive been using this transcoder for a couple years on my other pc with an r9 380, CRTEMU, and the same tv with 0 issues

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2021, 05:24:33 pm »
Unf I don't know GroovyArcade at all. Would be interesting to see how your modelines are generated, and how your sync looks with an oscilloscope.

If you ask about this on one of the stickied GroovyArcade threads (or start a new one with GA in topic title), you might get more attention from someone like who knows it better like Substring.
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2021, 06:49:45 am »
GroovyArcade or not, it's the same groovymame base code. Modelines are generated on the fly in Linux, that's the big difference where in windows, you have to pre-generate them.
As all cards from the generation listed https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/AMDGPU#Feature_support can't be thouroughly tested, they use super resolution to void being stucked because of a low pixel clock limit.

That said, I'd be curious to get the output of cat /proc/cmdline. If you're using my GroovyArcade (the collaborative one), the single case I know where setup works but not AM is when you apply a SVGA or 31kHz setup.
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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2021, 07:18:26 am »
@Dumbkid, there could be a problem with the DAC in the motherboard. I've seen a similar issue with a DP to VGA DAC dongle plugged to the DP output of my A300.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2021, 09:07:02 am »
Here's the output of cat /proc/cmdline

Looks like gasetup and commandline run in 480i perfectly. But as soon as I launch desktop or attract the tv doesn't handle whatever signal it sends.

And on my previous installation of groovy arcade(I've been reinstalling) I had retroarch installed and it would at least switch to 240p and display correctly. Albeit disconnecting if I ran a game but not in the menu.

I'm if this is super specific to my A300 or my transcoder. But I know my tv transcoder combo works great with crtemudriver with my other pc.


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Re: Asrock DeskMini A300
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2021, 09:36:21 am »
Hi Dumbkid,

Do you have another TV or arcade monitor to try it with this setup? Anyway, if possible, record a video of the sync problem. I'd try using 1280x480i for the desktop and -dotclock_min 25.0 in GM, to make sure it's not a low dotclock stability issue.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi