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Author Topic: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question  (Read 1295 times)

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vholfx

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House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« on: November 28, 2019, 02:00:42 pm »
Hi guys,

The same local vendor who is offering the Gunblade cabinet I mentioned in this thread is now offering a House of the Dead 1 Deluxe dedicated cab.

So I'll ask similar questions as in that thread, can this gun and sensors be re-used for other model 2 games (real hardware)  and/or MAME?

How about using the sensors with other platforms like model 3 (assuming I change everything else but the sensor and guns) or PC games?

Again, any info or input very welcome
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 02:02:16 pm by vholfx »

vholfx

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Re: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2019, 06:02:03 pm »
Ok I learned that House of the Dead is NOT based on the Sega Type-II IR setup, I thought it was. As far as I know this works only with CRT monitors and has a dedicated board to detect the signal.

That means this cabinet could (not sure) work only with Model 2 games (virtua cop 1/2, HOTD1). Sega Type-II IR was actually implemented with Jurassic Park Lost World for the Sega Model 3 hardware.


Zebra

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Re: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2019, 08:07:25 pm »
That is correct that HOD 1 uses a light gun, not a type two gun. There are a few different ways to use those light guns with a PC emulator though.

- you can wire the sensor board (in the gun) to a Guncon 2 PCB and use Wingun drivers
- wire them to an Act Labs gun pcb
- Track down one of the PC based arcade light gun game I/O boards, I just bought an America's Army cab to use it's USB2Gun I/O with a Windows PC

Also, try finding out how the HOD I/O outputs the light gun signal. Sega Type 2 gun i/O boards output like an analog joystick with X Y coordinates based on 0-5v per axis. It's possible HOD 1 does the same with light gun output. If so, you could wire it to an Apac.

If the HOD cab uses a rear projection monitor, I'd want to check if it's still bright. Light guns do not work at all well with dim monitors. The two HOD 1 cabs I know of near me are unplayable. You could only replace the screen with another CRT rear projection monitor (or TV).


vholfx

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Re: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2019, 09:01:19 am »
Interesting, and how would those guns connected to a Guncon or Act Labs pcbs work compared to just using those straight up (with a PC)?

The HOD cab I'm looking at is the CRT type (29 inches). If I ever wire a gun to a PC I would use an U-HID because as far as I know it allows you to turn the joystick into a mouse output (I could be mistaken I'm new in most of this and I don't know much about U-HID)

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Re: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2019, 10:10:09 am »
It's hard to say. On the Time Crisis arcade guns I wired to guncon 2 PCBs the performance was slightly worse but still usable. On the plus side, the glass lens in the arcade gun let's through more light and my one with an amplified sensor board registers shots more reliably, especially at the edges.

The thing to remember is that all light gun sensors are interchangeable. It's only how the I/O deals with it at the back end that differs. If you get spotty shot registering with one, you can try almost any other. I had the best results with Namco amplified sensor boards sold by Happ and Betson etc. They are made to even work on older dim monitors. They are harder to calibrate but fantastic once you do.

My other tips are: Use shielded cable. If you have recoil, use separate shielded cable for the solenoid or motor power. Don't make the cable from the gun sensor to the guncon 2 PCB (or Act Labs) too long. The longer it is, the more performance will suffer. Add ground screws if they don't have them already.

Also, if the gun shell is big enough, you may be able to transplant the guts of a GC2 or Act labs gun unaltered. In this case, performance would be identical. This is what I did for my Tera burst gun:




« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 10:48:53 am by Zebra »

vholfx

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Re: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2019, 07:11:22 pm »
I think I will pass on this cab since it feels it's too much trouble to get things working in a multi-game way. There's a HOD 2 cab I have my eyes on, with much better form factor, but needs A LOT of work (marquee is gone, monitor needs a cap kit, guns need new shells, wiring is a disaster).

I like the form factor much more too (not real pictures)

HOD1: image
HOD2: image

Zebra

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Re: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2019, 09:36:57 pm »
HOD 2 uses type 2 guns, not light guns. It's a significantly more complicated and expensive set-up. I am currently struggling to figure out how to hook up the IR LED boards and my HOD4 guns to a PC via an Apac and it's a frustrating endeavor. It's cost me a fortune and I am not even sure if it will be worth it. The one person I know of who has done it already was not too enthusiastic about how well it worked.

If the complexity bothers you, I would avoid Sega type 2 cabs. The insane number of wires and the need for custom harnesses, plus high cost of replacement parts makes it something only for a fanatic (like me) with the time to do a lot of research.

If you can wait a week, I'll be able to give you a first hand view on how well Sega type 2 guns works on a Windows PC. In my mind, it will need to provide noticeably better accuracy that other less expensive and easier to use options. So far, I have only seen it demonstrated on a game with on-screen crosshairs which don't require accuracy.

vholfx

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Re: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2019, 08:40:32 pm »
Sorry if I came across as not liking complexity, I actually thrive on it and the more complicated the setup the more I enjoy it when it works (when it works heh). I just think there is little benefit between using a native PC gun vs adapting a HOD1 gun to use a PC with.

As for Type 2 guns, I like the fact that it's compatible with many more games (Jurassic Park, Sega Naomi, etc) given you have the gun boards and all that comes with it. I realizing my focus is not a MAME cab per se, but a cab I can use for more than 1 game even if it is only real hardware.

For example, I like my model 3 racing cab because I can play Daytona 3, Scud Race, Sega Rally, etc, on it natively. If I can get that with a gun cab, it's good enough for me, if it works with MAME/PC, it's a plus.

I'm certainly intrigued on how your Sega Type 2 guns setup looks like and how it works. I won't be getting the HOD2 cab (if I ever do) any time soon, I have a backlog of projects to work on first.

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Re: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2019, 05:02:04 am »
If you want more of a plug and play cab you would probably be better looking at something that would take a standard Jamma harness and Happ style guns.
Area 51, Max force, Carnevil etc but even then its going to cause you a headache.

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Re: House of the dead (1) cabinet/sensors question
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2019, 12:13:48 pm »
Sorry if I came across as not liking complexity, I actually thrive on it and the more complicated the setup the more I enjoy it when it works (when it works heh). I just think there is little benefit between using a native PC gun vs adapting a HOD1 gun to use a PC with.

As for Type 2 guns, I like the fact that it's compatible with many more games (Jurassic Park, Sega Naomi, etc) given you have the gun boards and all that comes with it. I realizing my focus is not a MAME cab per se, but a cab I can use for more than 1 game even if it is only real hardware.

For example, I like my model 3 racing cab because I can play Daytona 3, Scud Race, Sega Rally, etc, on it natively. If I can get that with a gun cab, it's good enough for me, if it works with MAME/PC, it's a plus.

I'm certainly intrigued on how your Sega Type 2 guns setup looks like and how it works. I won't be getting the HOD2 cab (if I ever do) any time soon, I have a backlog of projects to work on first.

Original hardware is a whole different proposition for gun games. Every time I look into it, I manage to put myself off it based on what I learn. It's true that all Sega gun cabs since HOD2 use the type 2 gun sense board and those boards are interchangeable. But, that doesn't mean it's always easy to switch games with one cab.

Older games like Confidential mission and Jurassic Park use their basic generic pistols. Hod 3 uses a pump action rifle which uses two buttons instead of just a trigger. Hod 4 used 2 buttons plus an accelerometer. Their newer games use all that plus an additional weapons select lever. And... You have games like Virtua Cop 3 and Too Spicy which use pedals etc.

Also, only the gun sense board is universally compatible, what it plugs into differs by generation. The latest games connect via a JVS I/O control board. Older titles use platform specific I/O boards, many of which are expensive and hard to find. Most importantly (at least for me) is that original Sega PCBs are the most expensive on ebay, even for games like HOD 4 which you can play on Teknoparrot.

The only type of optical gun tech you can easily use on a broad range of original PCBs is real light guns. They all use the same tech which is why every one can be played with a Happ replacement pistol. You can use a Happ gun for anything from Operation Wolf to Time Crisis 3 and America's army etc.

My type 2 project consists of a gun sense board, 10 led boards that go around the monitor bezel, a gun protection board, a set of House of the Dead 4 arcade guns plus two additional gun sensors which I plan to put in my spare Time Crisis arcade recoil guns. I have a 12v dc psu to power it and the X, Y and trigger output will be fed into an Apac to connect it to a PC and a joypad hack to use it on the PS2 and PS3. That's it. I plan to sell it all if it doesn't perform exceptionally well.