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Author Topic: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?  (Read 1630 times)

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Howard_Casto

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2019, 11:38:47 pm »
I didn't realize that race the sun had a vr mode.  If nothing else I know my rig can play that.  Mine comes in Thursday, so I'll chime in when I get it.  Randy if the image quality is as good as you say it's probably worth it for me to go ahead and cobble together a motion control solution for everyone and/or find one that'll work.  If Headkaze will let me use his vjoy dll I can code a decent wiimote solution in an afternoon or two.  I've been working on that already for light gun tracking. 

Howard_Casto

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2019, 01:56:51 am »
I found this:

https://www.driver4vr.com/

I don't have a clue how much it is or how well it works, but it's been recently updated and seems to support many controllers like joycons, wiimotes, psmove and Kinect. 

Howard_Casto

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2019, 01:59:11 am »
I also found this one:

https://github.com/ajayyy/Wiimote-FreePIE-VR-Controls

It doesn't seem to be as far along but it's free. 

RandyT

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2019, 04:22:26 am »
The WVR2 seems highly limited if all it has is tilt tracking, but no positional tracking or motion controllers. Probably usable for 180/360 video but I can't imagine too much else it would be useful with. Maybe some seated games that don't rely on motion controllers?

Compliments of TrinusVR: 

"Here's a list of games that can be played just with Gamepad or Keyboard+Mouse."

I already own a few of these (UltraWings, PinballFX VR, etc.) and the headset seems to do a decent job with them.  Not on par with the high-end units, but much better than expected.  Definitely better than the cell phone gizmos.

BTW, folks need to keep in mind that the less power their system has, the fuzzier the graphics will appear.  SteamVR will set the quality settings for what it thinks will be the best experience, based on their hardware. At 100% it's pretty impressive, but the low refresh rate does quite a bit to degrade the experience in games. 

BadMouth

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2019, 09:04:15 am »
I tinkered with it a tiny bit this morning.

Plugged the hdmi cord into a roku and the usb into a power bank to see if the screen could be used for other things.  The screen lights up, but nothing is displayed.
Could be a "handshaking" issue, but when I tried to mirror a 1080 desktop the results were the same so I think it may be a resolution issue.
It displayed fine as a second monitor on the PC using 1440 or higher resolution, at least before installing steam VR and the drivers.
This may seem pointless, but I am blind in one eye.  The idea was to reconfigure it to use the entire screen for my one good eye, possibly swapping in an adjustable lens from a cheap phone VR headset.
If the Roku worked, it could be turned into a wireless video headset (for one eye).  There is a bunch of optical stuff I'm temporarily ignoring there.

Steam VR is scaling my GTX 1060 to 86%.  I manually forced it to 100% and didn't see any performance hit, but I was just watching youtube videos.

I downloaded a few things on Steam to try this evening.
Looks like I'll have to fork over some money for the real experience.  :(
I wish I hadn't passed on Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice during the winter sale.
Oh well, Desert Bus VR is free.  ;D

RandyT

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2019, 10:33:34 am »
So I played around with it more.  I managed to get the controller working and Steam thinks this is a Vive.  I am getting a nice purple image from the right side, but no video.

I don't think Steam should see it as a Vive.  The icon which pops up in the SteamVR Status window with mine, is one I haven't seen before.

Did you right click on the tray icon for the "Holo" thing and download the latest driver and firmware?

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2019, 10:52:53 am »
So I played around with it more.  I managed to get the controller working and Steam thinks this is a Vive.  I am getting a nice purple image from the right side, but no video.

I don't think Steam should see it as a Vive.  The icon which pops up in the SteamVR Status window with mine, is one I haven't seen before.

Did you right click on the tray icon for the "Holo" thing and download the latest driver and firmware?

Yes I did that but I think I have found the culprit.  You see I am being treated as a step child by Microsoft.  I have Windows 10 N and anything media related like Xbox streaming etc it doesn't like it.  Add the media feature pack and nothing.  A Microsoft Tech I know said any application that loads Windows N it just ignores and tells you to add the feature pack.  So no love from Microsoft.

So I have the real deal windows 10 on my laptop and it worked fine just had to flip the secondary screen horizontal and I can see everything just fine with one eye closed, so I will try it again.  This laptop is an A10 with an APU and HD7600G in crossfire so it should make up any short comings.  I can play GTA Ultra on it, and it looks superb at 1fps.

We shall see.
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BadMouth

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2019, 12:05:35 pm »
Mine was detected as a vive before updating the holo-whatever software and getting disable safe mode/enable direct mode to take.
As I said above, it took what felt like a dozen tries so I don't know what finally worked.

RandyT

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2019, 12:37:01 pm »
Mine was detected as a vive before updating the holo-whatever software and getting disable safe mode/enable direct mode to take.
As I said above, it took what felt like a dozen tries so I don't know what finally worked.

Same here.  Once it worked, it worked, so I didn't get out of SteamVR until I was done messing with it.  I'd say it was odd, but I have seen similar things happen with the Odyssey and the VIVE, but to a lesser extent.  The difference I think is that the situation improved with those two recently, due to updates.  I'd be surprised if this one gets any love in the future to improve the situation.

ark_ader

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2019, 03:16:54 pm »
Mine was detected as a vive before updating the holo-whatever software and getting disable safe mode/enable direct mode to take.
As I said above, it took what felt like a dozen tries so I don't know what finally worked.

Same here.  Once it worked, it worked, so I didn't get out of SteamVR until I was done messing with it.  I'd say it was odd, but I have seen similar things happen with the Odyssey and the VIVE, but to a lesser extent.  The difference I think is that the situation improved with those two recently, due to updates.  I'd be surprised if this one gets any love in the future to improve the situation.

It says Ready (SteamVR 1.14)  And I got the controller to pair, but I just get one purple image out of the right eye.  Virtual Pink eye maybe?  Gonna download some of that VR Pron to see if that fixes it, or I'll probably go blind anyway.  Head tracking works, but the lappy didn't, so I plugged it back into the PC and.........Hello.
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BadMouth

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2019, 07:56:00 pm »
No joy on Desert Bus.  It requires the other controllers.
The other free stuff I downloaded was passive stuff where you just look around.  :-\

Picked up Dirt Rally from greenmangaming for $6 after some promo codes.
That one oughtta tell me something.

EDIT: Dirt Rally does not work.  It doesn't give me the option for VR and says it doesn't support VR when I launch it.
Steam store page has it listed as supporting Oculus Rift, so I guess it only works on that specific headset.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 07:06:41 am by BadMouth »

BadMouth

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2019, 08:21:15 am »
Ok.  Finally found some free things that work well that I'll recommend.

DeoVR video player works for my ripped blurays.

Redout Demo
Overload Playable Teaser

Pretty sure the things that show up as working with Vive will work, but the ones only supported by Oculus will not.

Only had a few minutes, but the demos I tried worked well.
I can see where the handheld tracked controllers would add a lot to the immersion.
Without them it just feels like I'm playing with a screen real close to my face since 90% of the time you are looking forward anyway.  Again, I don't have stereoscopic vision so I'm not experiencing any 3D effect.

ark_ader

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2019, 12:12:45 pm »
Well I tried several times to get the device to view anythng - I stopped Direct mode and the left lens worked showing my desktop.  Rebooted steam VR and now I have my 4th monitor (VR) flipped and it is showing the desktop.  I can see why these devices are so cheap.  They do not work out of the box.  There is a new update to Hollowview and I think this helped.  I'm keeping it but I fear I will dismantle it for other purposes.

At least I got a 360 joypad out of it.  ;D
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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2019, 12:17:19 pm »
What's the included controller look like?
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ark_ader

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2019, 12:38:25 pm »
What's the included controller look like?

https://pix.sfly.com/OZ_Ghp

Has triggers.  Have yet to try with retropie. 

But when you plug it in the USB port (via a wireless dongle) it shows up as a 360 controller.
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Howard_Casto

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2019, 04:57:18 pm »
Yeah it's a decent controller.... even has full rumble.  I'm not super fond of the psx style form factor, but I figure I've got 10 bucks worth of value out of it alone.  I picked mine up today but I'm waiting on a long and arduous process of downloading everything and setting it up.  Trying the laptop first. 

RandyT

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2019, 07:13:42 pm »
Pretty sure the things that show up as working with Vive will work, but the ones only supported by Oculus will not.

Install Revive and Oculus.  I think it's required for Dirt Rally, plus there are some nice free experiences on Oculus.  I can confirm that Oculus titles work with these headsets.

On a side note, I also picked up one of the $30 models (WVR3) just to see how they differed.  Honestly, I'm a bit underwhelmed.  There are some benefits, but the image clarity, brightness and color just doesn't seem to be there.  It improved when wearing my glasses with it, which is something I don't normally need to do, but it just wasn't as crisp and colorful as the WVR2.

The IPD adjustment seems only useful for those who have an IPD which is less than what is considered common.  Mine is pretty much dead-nuts on the norm, and it doesn't adjust wider than that. One thing which does seem much better is the refresh rate.  It seems higher than the other units, making the experience less jarring.  The 3D effect is also more pronounced.  If the image didn't smear when looking around, it would be a pretty decent unit.  Oh, and it has a much longer cord.  Probably about 12'.

Physically, it feels more substantial than the other one, and it had a nicer strap, which comes pre-attached.  The face pad is softer, but still not great, being fabric covered.  The gamepad is the same as the WVR2.

If you are looking for a reasonably good VR HMD, for little money, the WVR3 is probably the one I would go for.  But if you want it primarily for VR video, or games where you wouldn't do a lot of head movements (cockpit games, racing, etc) the WVR2 is probably the better unit.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 10:36:42 am by RandyT »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2019, 07:18:37 pm »
So right now I'm getting "compositor failed to start" errors from steam vr on all of my machines.  I do have the desktop visible through the headset on my main computer though at full res.  Did any of you guys run across this error?

RandyT

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2019, 07:37:22 pm »
If you can see the desktop in it, the drivers probably aren't installed.  Did you update them through the "Holo-whatsit" app?

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2019, 07:40:19 pm »
So right now I'm getting "compositor failed to start" errors from steam vr on all of my machines.  I do have the desktop visible through the headset on my main computer though at full res.  Did any of you guys run across this error?

Yep.  Updated video card drivers.  Updated the Holo-thing program it comes with (using a second program to update it).  Then kept disabling safe mode and enabling direct mode per the instructions.
Eventually it took and then I could move onto the Run Room Setup in the drop-down menu.  Now it says Ready and works every time.  I've even unplugged it and replugged it.

Updater thing made me uncomfortable and made registry changes, but hey...it's working now.

Edit: It seemed to change it's tune after updating the holowhatever app.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 08:11:28 pm by BadMouth »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2019, 08:09:04 pm »
The holoview assistant doesn't seem to be working right for me.  It says it updated the drivers and steam vr can see the headset.  Updating the actual app seems to give me an error during the "downloading" process but I'm trying again. 


Anyway, I can get this to show up as a second monitor so I'm keeping it.  I'll crack it open and use it as a mini display if nothing else.  I also fired up outrun 2006 and threw it up on the left hand side of the goggles and it seemed to play well, so I'm guessing I'm ok for low-end games or games set to low quality.  If not I can get a r9 300 series for about 60 bucks and I'd probably need that when I get a new pc anyway. 

BadMouth

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2019, 08:28:18 pm »
I know that when I kept getting "compositor failed to start", is when I decided to update the video card drivers and try to follow the directions.  :D 
I'm not sure when the other steps were done.  It was a blur of many failed attempts, then....it worked after updating the drivers and following the instructions multiple times.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2019, 09:02:34 pm »
How do they show up in device manager in terms of drivers/ect?  Maybe I can install them manually and get things fixed that way. 

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2019, 09:47:33 pm »
Sorry, not convenient to get to that info at the moment.  I do recall that after installing drivers and it not working that I did restart the PC before trying again and it finally working.  I can't tell you how many attempts it took after the PC was restarted.

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2019, 11:26:26 pm »
I finally got it working.  Like you I'm not sure exactly what I did but in case someone else wants to pick one up some of the things I did:

In the drop-down menu on the steamVR popup I went into development and clicked on the "remove all usb" button, unplugged the goggles, quite steam vr and plugged them back in.  I also had to enable the goggles as a monitor in windows (which is counter-intuitive as we are trying to get it to work in direct mode) use the extended desktop option and move the goggles to the left side of the virtual desktop.  Then I started the holoview app and steam vr sort of crashed.  After starting it again everything worked.  That's all I know. 


First impressions of the goggles are quite good for the price.  The resolution is quite good and even though my pc is waaaay below spec, I just played a smooth 60fps game of race the sun, so they WILL work for punier games on old pcs.  Not having the individual eye adjustment sucks for me as my bad eye is throwing things off a little.  I haven't tried to cram my glasses in yet, but it doesn't look like they would fit easily.  That being said, there really isn't a screen door effect or anything like that and the head tracking is decent.  FOV is quite tight, but still more than playable. 


If you don't mind screwing around for an afternoon to get the things working I would recommend them.  I mean they are just 20 bucks.  I might pick up wvr3 model to get per-eye adjustment, but other than that, they'll do for casual vr anyway. 

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2019, 06:46:08 am »
I also unplugged and replugged them at some point.  Maybe they shouldn't be plugged in until after the holidays program and drivers have been installed.

I've been wearing glasses with it.  Only issue is getting the goggles on and off without my glasses getting pressed against my hair or skin and picking up oils that smear on the lenses.

Check out the Redout demo I mentioned above.  That's the best experience I've had with it.

If you picked up Payday2 for free or as part of a humble bundle, there is a VR option now.  It's in my download que, so I haven't actually tried it yet.
The game was either free or part if a bundle at some point because I have it, but know I wouldn't have bought it. [emoji23]

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2019, 10:05:34 am »
All models now sold out.  Glad I got one.

Ridiculous deal when you consider what the parts and tooling probably cost to manufacture it.
Even if every corner was cut, I can't imagine this thing was made for less than double what I paid for it.

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2019, 12:29:23 pm »
I think I found the actual manufacturer of these units.

Turns out the WVR3 does have a higher refresh rate than the other units.  Supposedly, it can go as high as 120hz.  It's still using a TFT LCD, but it uses the pulsed backlight shenanigans to try to make the refresh rate feel higher.  Not sure how that's supposed to work.  To me, it just seems to reduce the image brightness and color.

There is also something mentioned on this unit called gesture recognition and "Tracking +MO-something" which got cut off.  It makes sense, as there is a window in the bottom portion of the unit.  I have no idea if there's actually anything under it on the WVR3, or how any of it works if there is.  It might just be screwdriver worthy to find out.  If I were to guess, it's probably a couple of IR LEDs for a stationary camera.

*edit*  One of the SlickDeals guys indicated that a new driver is supposed to drop on the 25th to address some of the performance issues.  I guess we shall see.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 12:39:30 pm by RandyT »

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2019, 01:55:04 pm »
That sucks about them selling out.  It also looks like they have raised the price back to full retail as well, so when/if they get them back in it won't be as cheap.  Amazon had some the other day, but they are more around the 70-80 dollar mark.  Something that threw me off while playing around last night was the fact that vr videos don't seem to play well.  I guess it makes sense... that is quite a large video for a card geared towards 1080p playback to handle, but it seemed odd considering the 3d rendered games seem to be more or less ok. 

Perhaps the driver update will help.  I'm amazed that they are getting a driver update.

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #69 on: January 11, 2019, 04:01:51 pm »
Something that threw me off while playing around last night was the fact that vr videos don't seem to play well.  I guess it makes sense... that is quite a large video for a card geared towards 1080p playback to handle, but it seemed odd considering the 3d rendered games seem to be more or less ok. 

Are you referring to youtube?
For me, quality on the youtube app was horrible regardless of quality being streamed.
Ripped 1080 mv4 files ripped from blurays played through the DeoVR player look good.
480 ones ripped from DVDs didn't look nearly as good despite them looking fine on my 1080 televisions.
It would be decent for watching movies on it if you have a crappy TV or sleeping spouse.

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2019, 12:00:20 am »
Install Revive and Oculus.  I think it's required for Dirt Rally, plus there are some nice free experiences on Oculus.  I can confirm that Oculus titles work with these headsets.

Working with this.  It seemed to be working, but when I launched Lucky's Tale, it said something about the controls, I fumbled some buttons, then it switched to Japanese and became unresponsive. 
Deleted and re-downloading.  Looks like it should work though.

Real reason I'm posting is to make sure Howard sees Revive.  It's open source.  It may be useful for injecting wii controller info.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1401048874


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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2019, 12:40:55 am »
I'll take a look.  Right now I'm just trying to get things stable.  I think it's my weak system specs, but the headset is giving me some issues.  I tried redout and it ran too slowly to be playable, so I tried tweaking the settings in game and that just seemed to make the whole thing unstable and crash.  I thought maybe I could go into the game in regular mode, change the settings and then launch in VR, but the demo doesn't appear to save settings.  Race the sun runs rock solid and stable and redout isn't that much more intensive graphically, so I'm not sure what the issue is... might just be with that game. 

Btw the videos I meant were those huge 4k ones that are stereoscopic and you can look around.  You see them on pr0n sites a lot but there are also more traditional videos like roller coasters or swimming with fish.  My machine tends to stutter with them even in a regular non-vr media player, so it might be a codec issue or something.  It could also be rendering the video onto a sphere as my experiments with it for use with front-ends in the past found that to take a lot of processing power. 


Also, do you guys think it would be possible to add better optics to these units?  The real thing holding them back seems to be the lenses.... everything else is of pretty high quality.  I think it'll be fairly easy to get wiimotes or something similar working as controllers so that part of the equation isn't a big deal. 

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2019, 01:00:54 am »
Dang.... can't do oculus on this pc.  It says I need a cpu with sse 4.2 support.  I think this one only does three.  I might try getting the rig to work on my laptop again but with integrated video I doubt I could play much. 


*edit*


Apparently this is one of the first cpus to support sse 4.2 and the software only needs 4.1 anyway.  It's a known issue and there is a hacked version that bypasses the check.  I'll give that a go. 
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 01:07:47 am by Howard_Casto »

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2019, 01:12:14 am »
Dunno if it would be worth it for you.  Getting Revive to work is starting to feel like getting the VR headset to work all over again.
I can launch the games through steam.  They show up on the desktop, but not the headset.  Lucky's Tale has what looks like the headset not detected screen, but it's in Japanese and doesn't respond to anything.
Spent enough time on it tonight.

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2019, 01:27:32 am »
Yeah this is a lot of fiddling, but for that price I kind of expected it to be.  I'm just playing with it to see what I can get working and to pass the time at night... if it gets too frustrating I'll just box the whole thing up and save it for when I upgrade. 

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #75 on: January 12, 2019, 01:58:05 am »
Finally got redout to run, albeit with a reduced resolution and frame rate.  Very fun but tbh all those fzero like twists kind of made me sick.  I can see the potential though. 

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #76 on: January 12, 2019, 08:39:57 am »
A new update was available last night.  Too much hassle with Steam VR and I cannot shake the Vive recognition to the VR-Tek.  The gamepad is recognized, but it is still looking for Vive controllers.  It also messes up my desktop display settings.  It is really comfortable to wear.  Will try this again on Windows 7, and see if it is a directx issue.
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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2019, 11:21:19 am »
Finally got redout to run, albeit with a reduced resolution and frame rate.  Very fun but tbh all those fzero like twists kind of made me sick.  I can see the potential though.

The reduced framerate is partially to blame, but it will probably pass, just stick with it.  Wipeout had me in knots the first few runs with all of the comfort options off, but I played a few runs the other day and didn't get queasy at all.  For mostly healthy folks, it's just a matter of conditioning.

A new update was available last night.

Just out of curiosity, which version are you on?  I'm to the point I can't get mine to start anymore.  Had me digging fruitlessly into SteamVR log files looking for the hitch-up.

One thing I noticed was that the Holo-Assist background app, which I assume is what does the translation, kept silently disappearing.  Maybe it's just unstable on my system for some reason.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:30:52 am by RandyT »

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #78 on: January 12, 2019, 02:33:49 pm »
Steam VR updated to 1.2.7 or something like that last night.  The firmware and stuff is still the same.  Whatever they did, things seem more stable now.  What's been working for me, at least is you need to start steamVR up manually... let it do it's thing (which can take a while) and then start the games from within steam if at all possible.  It also seems to work better if you have everything plugged in before you start your pc, which is annoying, but not the hugest deal. 


The holo assist and holo launcher don't seem to be necessary.  You need the assist app to update firmware, but other than that I just use steam and ignore those apps now as they are very unstable.  I tried a few times to get non-vr games to run via the app but it kept crashing on me. 

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Re: Highly Discounted VR toy... what do you guys make of it?
« Reply #79 on: January 13, 2019, 08:19:16 pm »
Something I played last night that was way more fun than it should have been were the sega megadrive/genesis collections.  Yes, those work in VR and while it isn't a 3d masterpiece or anything, the games play well and with the appropriate settings for fullscreen mode it really feels like playing on a crt in a darkened room.  Also since you aren't looking around a lot the motion blurring isn't an issue. 

I think I'm going to wait until the 25th it try to hack this thing and see how the firmware update goes. 

  
 

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