Fighting Games - Am I the only one who dislikes them?

[csnow]

Maybe its age, maybe its a generational issue, or maybe I just am lazy but I cannot get into fighting games.  The strange thing is that I really loved Karate Champ when it was in the arcades but that doesn't translate to Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Marvel vs Capcom, King of Fighters, etc.  I felt obligated to have some of those titles in my rigs (for other people), but I never play them.  I took some time to try to memorize some combos, but it is a daunting task of learning all these moves for blocking, attacking, parrying etc.  Throw in 10+ characters for each game and multiply that by each title i.e. SF, MK, Tekken, etc.  Maybe I am a slow learner, but I would have to spend all of my "game" time dedicated to learning one game and probably one character. 

What is more frustrating is that after "practicing" and trying to acquire some "skills", my son comes in and just wipes the floor with me from button mashing like a monkey throwing crap.  It is reminiscent of people who were "spinners" in Foosball.  All in all, I find the entire fighting game genre frustrating.  Like I said, it may be an age thing (47), as I was already in the Army and didn't frequent arcades in the 90s.  I didn't experience fighters in their glory days, so I have no sentimental or nostalgic attachment to them. 

When I have the time to game, I prefer a quick dose of Ms Pac, Galaga, Dig Dug, 1942, Ghost and Goblins, etc.  A simplistic game with one or two buttons that is accessible by anyone.  Fighters are simply too much "work" and often devolve into a incessant button mashing fiasco.   

The reason I ask, is that it appears that 98% of the control panels have the Capcom 2x3 button layout, which is for fighting games.  Am I the only grouchy "get off my lawn kid" guy who doesn't get fighters?  Did you add fighting games and all the extra buttons because it is "expected" like I did? 

Just a topic for conversation.....

[dgrams2000]

Might just not be your cup of tea, man. 

26 years ago when I was in my arcade prime (and working at one) I kind of took to everything.
Street Fighter was the game that all the 'regulars' came in to play.  So getting to know all of them, I took to getting into Street Fighter a bit. Concentrated on one character... got real good... learned how to play cheap if need be...  And then started exploring other characters that had similar movesets.   That was how I started.
Fighters are something where you need two things.  Patience... and the never quit attitude that you can eventually beat someone at their own game ('Cheap' or not)  It may take forever to do it, but once you can outplay/outwit/outfight someone - there is no better feeling.
Being awesome at a game figuring out the AI or patterns is great in it's own right - so games like DK, PM, Galaga, etc.. etc... are great to rack up a high score - but to outthink and outplay fellow humans (especially the cocky ones that think that their crap doesn't stink) raises the satisfaction level to a whole new bar.

I think that is why I prefer online playing against people on consoles vs. playing offline.   AI is AI.  Human thought is unpredictable (to a point)

I still play them to a point but now that you have billion hit combos and all that stuff... it adds a level that I don't really care for.  If I play them now it is single player offline/story as I just don't have the time to master new games.

[csnow]

Fighters are something where you need two things.  Patience... and the never quit attitude that you can eventually beat someone at their own game ('Cheap' or not)  It may take forever to do it

Definitely agree with this and you hit the nail on the head.  To be competent at a specific fighter, it requires a lot of time, patience, and practice.  That was my point with saying that it would take all of my available "game time".  With only so many hours available for hobby, it would require a total time commit to one game and one character.  For me, game time is escape time.  I am looking for mindless, simply fun to relax and have a cold beer or a glass of wine and reminisce.  Thinking back to the days when I was playing these games with childhood friends at the local pizza joint, Tastee-Freeze, or arcade.  Not discounting those who do, but as you said it just isn't my cup of tea or arcade era.

Being awesome at a game figuring out the AI or patterns is great in it's own right - so games like DK, PM, Galaga, etc.. etc... are great to rack up a high score - but to outthink and outplay fellow humans (especially the cocky ones that think that their crap doesn't stink) raises the satisfaction level to a whole new bar.

Arcade chess, totally get that.

I still play them to a point but now that you have billion hit combos and all that stuff... it adds a level that I don't really care for.  If I play them now it is single player offline/story as I just don't have the time to master new games.

We have both come to the same conclusion, I just reached that conclusion sooner, which is probably because I never played these games when they were in the arcades.  I am coming to the fighting game party late.

[big10p]

I never took to the 'street fighter' Vs. type of fighting game, either. Could be an age thing (I'm 49), but they never appealed to me BITD, either. Just looked like a bout of button mashing to me. None of my cabs has more than 3 buttons per player. I do like some fighting games, like Double Dragon, though.

[nitrogen_widget]

I just suck at most of them.
hell my 7yr old kicked my arse all over the screen on some fighting game I had on the dreamcast 4 yrs ago.
I got in about 10 minutes of butt-kicking time, then he figured out the buttons and proceeded to own me.

[pbj]

Old ones I like okay, I still fire up MK1 fairly regular.  Stuff like Super Smash Bros is completely lost on me.

[csnow]

I never took the 'street fighter' Vs. type of fighting game, either. Could be an age thing (I'm 49), but they never appealed to me BITD, either. Just looked like a bout of button mashing to me. None of my cabs has more than 3 buttons per player. I do like some fighting games, like Double Dragon, though.

Yeah, I really think it is the arcade era the one grew up in.  I absolutely loved Karate Champ, so I thought I would enjoy the fighting genre, but I was completely wrong.  These games were complex in their infancy and have evolved into insane complexity like frame counts, long input strings for combos, etc.  They have spawned a gaming sub-culture that are very serious and very good at these games.  What looks like a simple animated game on the surface is anything but.  It kinda ties into the SHMUPS, candy cab machines, convex buttons, Seimetsu controllers, etc.  It an entirely different era and arcade scene with the exception of the early SHMUPS like 1942, which I do enjoy.  I like the newer ones too, but they are just too fast and "busy" on the screen.  There are bombs, bullets, and lasers everywhere to the point I can't keep them straight.  But they are simple concept games, so I fire them up on occasion.  I actually bought a candy cab because of the beautiful 29" monitors but it just didn't feel right.  I don't mind sitting down to play but my brain expects a cocktail with wood grain and a 13-19" monitor.  Sitting nearly on the floor in front of a gigantic washing machine looking box with odd feeling controllers and buttons didn't work for me.  Hey, I was open minded and gave it a shot.  Fortunately, they are in high demand, so I was able to flip it and actually make a profit.  I think my love of arcade machines is rooted firmly in nostalgia and memories.

I just suck at most of them.
hell my 7yr old kicked my arse all over the screen on some fighting game I had on the dreamcast 4 yrs ago.
I got in about 10 minutes of butt-kicking time, then he figured out the buttons and proceeded to own me.

Hahaha....yeah, thats me too brother.  Fighting games kinda remind me Foosball.  It was a great game of skill if you had two players that take it seriously.  However, most people would just start spinning the rods following the ball back and forth like a monkey which was zero fun and frustrating.  I think with fighting games you need an opponent who plays by a standard of rules.  I can see how it could become a lot of fun and challenging with a group of people who share the love of the game and strategy.  None of the people I hang out with, or myself for that matter, have any interest in the genre ,so it will always be a button mashing fest.  I wouldn't even consider trying to play a modern fighting game online.  That would be suicidal insanity.

[keilmillerjr]

*///GALAGA\\\*

Platformers like sunset riders.
Puzzle games.

My little brother used to kick my @ss in tekken. I can't remember button combos. Meh.

[Titchgamer]

I enjoy old fighters like SF2, MK 1-3 etc.

Basically anything before 3D/Crazy combos/ultra combos/breakers etc etc.

SF2 and MK may seem complex but they are not really.
Most of the specials are easy to pick up and the hardest things to remember are the fatalities etc as each is different.

But the newer ones are far to complex, I can sort of hold my own using a combo of button mashing and age old cheap moves like fly kick, sweep, uppercut etc.

They are not games I really play solo though, its only ever when I have a mate around to play with I start em up.

[dgrams2000]

Just looked like a bout of button mashing to me.

And that comment is interesting, because this is the LAST thing you want to do in a fighting game. That is how you die. Every jump/kick, or jump into a special move requires precise timing to pull off, which is where the practice/skill come in.


It is interesting also because most fighters have a small variety of movements to pull off with the stick to perform the special moves.
You have your basic 'jump in the air and time a regular kick' type of moves.. then you move into the 'quarter circle forward/or back followed by a punch button'  or the 'charge back for 2secs, then stick forward with a punch button' type of move.   Once you get those 3 techniques down... most characters become easy to play, with slight variations - in the older fighters....   Once you have that, the biggest thing is to VARY your moves and strategies as to keep human opponents off guard.  If you become a 1 hit wonder and rely on one fighting technique, like always aggressively attacking withe the same series of moves... you will get killed when the opponent figures out your 'comfort zone'.

I will play MKX on PS4 as I love the gore of the game.... but the last game that has combos that I was actually into and good at was Killer Instinct 1.  ULTRA COMBO!
Even the newer Killer Instinct on Xbox1 or PC.. I feel like I am kind of reliving the good old days... but it also ends up feeling like button mashing because of all the extra things put into the game now.   
New fighters ARE pretty as hell though. 

I have the itch to play something now... haha

[yotsuya]

Growing up, it always felt when you played a game, it was you against the machine.

When SF and MK came along, it was no longer you vs the machine, but you vs a d-bag (usually).

[Titchgamer]

KI combos are different to other games though.

I always felt you could get a pretty decent combo going by pure fluke pretty much!

I used to love KI on the 64 and good do some serious damage with Jago.

But I could never tell you what I actually did LOL

[csnow]

Growing up, it always felt when you played a game, it was you against the machine.

When SF and MK came along, it was no longer you vs the machine, but you vs a d-bag (usually).

Excellent point.  That is how I feel completely.  Gaming was always an individual experience of you against the levels.  The only competition with other people was getting your initials on the high score screen.  To this day, I don't like playing online even with consoles.  Atari, NES, Gensis, Dreamcast, etc was just you against the machine.  I miss that.....  Not to mention having a 12 year old tell me how he wants to t-bag my mama and how much I suck online 

[harveybirdman]

I just don't care to put in the time to learn the moves....

I mean I get fairly decent amount of enjoyment playing the ones where button mashing works very well with my kids, especially if the game has things that borderline on ridiculous like the dog in Jojo's Bizzare Adventure.

[opt2not]

I love the new fighting games and old fighting games (including Karate Champ). I've played them since their inception, and still keep up-to-date with the newer games now. These days I play Tekken 7, Street Fighter V, and recently Ultra Street Fighter 2 for the Switch -- which isn't exactly *new* per say. The next game I get into is probably going to be the new Dragon Ball Z game, which has an incredible toon shaded 3D rendering that makes it look like it's 2D drawn.

Fighting games are primarily versus games against human components, and are really only fun if you have a group of friends that you can play with on a regular basis. Single player it gets kinda boring.
Personally i have a small group of friends that we play on a semi-weekly basis, online. Before I moved away from them we would get together in-person, drink beer, and play against each other.  You can get into fighting games a lot easier if you have people of like-mind looking to improve, and learn the games. This pushes you further at getting good.

The biggest misconceptions of fighting games are:

1. "If I don't know the combos, I can't win".  This isn't entirely true. The basics of fighting games is more than just learning the special moves and combos. Just learning how to utilize normal attacks alone is a lot of what these games are about. "footsies" is a big thing in fighting games, where you use your range and normal attacks to pester and wittle down their health...or even to disrupt their rhythm.
But really the core of these games is how you keep your spacing, capitalize on opportunities and knowing when to apply pressure (being aggressive) or when to be defensive. Also, stop jumping!!  A lot of newbs tend to overly jump, and even though it can be combo starters, you actually open yourself up a lot more because there aren't many options from the air -- stay grounded as much as possible.

2. "People I play IRL are ---uvulas---". If you're going into this with a negative outlook on your opponent, IMO you shouldn't be playing these games. Fighting games are meant to be played 1 vs 1 against human opponents. The real ---uvulas--- of the game is really the Computer, because their AI can flip the switch and make it extremely difficult for you to do anything.  In fact, human opponents have more Patterns in the way they play than the CPU.
Once you can recognize how your opponent plays, you can anticipate or wait for them to open themselves up for an opportunity for you to attack.

3.  "Games these days are too complicated".  Nope, they really aren't. Sure there's more moves, but you can still be a successful fighting game player by only using the basics of every fighting game:  Spacing, Normal Attacks (footsies), Anti-air, blocking and capitalizing on your opponents mistakes... these are all fundamental  to playing these games.  But the second point is, all of these games have the baseline same game mechanics between all characters. Sure the inputs are going to be different for special moves, but you know that each character will share the same "high/low" attacks, or ranged attacks, or grab attacks, etc. It's mainly how that player is going to use these attacks is what you should look for.  It's called "reading", or "reads".  Play against the player, not against the character they play.
In the case of a button masher, patience is more key here, but spacing and footsies can really disrupt someone trying to just mash their way to a victory.


Bottom line is, if you already knew all these points and still dislikes fighting games, then yes fighting games are not for you.  But you should be aware that the genre is more than just special moves and combos. The fundamentals are extremely important -- there is a good post on the Shoryuken forums that talks about this, http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/162157/what-are-the-fundamentals 

And just to point out, Karate Champ utilizes a lot of the same fundamentals I've talked about here. A person can definitely mash at that game, but the best KC players I've seen use the same core techniques as you would in any modern fighting game.

I also wanted to mention that Candy Cabinets are not an era thing, but more of a Region thing.  In North America and Europe stand-up cabs were the norm for a long time, but in Japan the Candy Cabinet were derived from cocktail units a long time before Shmups and Fighting games became popular here in the west.
Also, on the note of Shmups, you can say the same things above about that genre as well.  It comes down to the fundamentals of how you play those games that you can utilize for every title you go forward with.   There is a helpful guide to getting acquainted with the Shmup fundamentals called The Full Extent of the Jam - written by PROMETHEUS over at the shmups forum. https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=34497
He uses Dodonpachi as the example game, but goes into some of the basic techniques into playing these games. It's a really great guide that I suggest people who want to understand the modern Shmup or Bullet hell genre gameplay.

Fighting games and Shmups are my two loves. I'm not great at the bullethell Cave titles, but I enjoy learning them.  1942 will forever be my jam though, but I do love Gyruss, Galaga and the Raiden series.

[Ian]

I enjoy old fighters like SF2, MK 1-3 etc.

Basically anything before 3D/Crazy combos/ultra combos/breakers etc etc.

SF2 and MK may seem complex but they are not really.
Most of the specials are easy to pick up and the hardest things to remember are the fatalities etc as each is different.

But the newer ones are far to complex, I can sort of hold my own using a combo of button mashing and age old cheap moves like fly kick, sweep, uppercut etc.

They are not games I really play solo though, its only ever when I have a mate around to play with I start em up.

I agree... once fighters stopped being about patience and anticipating attacks, and turned into button smashers (anything past X-men Children of the Atom) I lost interest.

[Ian]

Growing up, it always felt when you played a game, it was you against the machine.

When SF and MK came along, it was no longer you vs the machine, but you vs a d-bag (usually).

Not 100% fair.. I have always had a positive experience going up against another person. Like anything competitive we usually always ended a game with "Good Game" or "You kicked ---my bottom---, good job" or even a hand shake... But that level of general respect to our fellow gamers kind of left once the online thing started booming. Now everyone is a tough guy that wants to T-bag csnow's mama.

[pbj]

Seems like all I do in shmups is figure 8s over and over until I get bored.  I'm not any good at them, but can usually get 2 or 3 levels in doing that.

 

[csnow]

Growing up, it always felt when you played a game, it was you against the machine.

When SF and MK came along, it was no longer you vs the machine, but you vs a d-bag (usually).

Not 100% fair.. I have always had a positive experience going up against another person. Like anything competitive we usually always ended a game with "Good Game" or "You kicked ---my bottom---, good job" or even a hand shake... But that level of general respect to our fellow gamers kind of left once the online thing started booming. Now everyone is a tough guy that wants to T-bag csnow's mama.

I was talking about online.  I rarely find anyone online that is polite, pleasant, or gentleman-like.  If someone pulled those comments in person next to me on a machine, it would be another issue entirely.  In person, generally people are friendly.  Behind keyboards, controllers, on the Interweb the anonymity somehow brings out the worst in people.  Not always, but most times.

[jennifer]

Maybe its age, maybe its a generational issue, or maybe I just am lazy but I cannot get into fighting games.  The strange thing is that I really loved Karate Champ when it was in the arcades but that doesn't translate to Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Marvel vs Capcom, King of Fighters, etc.  I felt obligated to have some of those titles in my rigs (for other people), but I never play them.  I took some time to try to memorize some combos, but it is a daunting task of learning all these moves for blocking, attacking, parrying etc.  Throw in 10+ characters for each game and multiply that by each title i.e. SF, MK, Tekken, etc.  Maybe I am a slow learner, but I would have to spend all of my "game" time dedicated to learning one game and probably one character. 

What is more frustrating is that after "practicing" and trying to acquire some "skills", my son comes in and just wipes the floor with me from button mashing like a monkey throwing crap.  It is reminiscent of people who were "spinners" in Foosball.  All in all, I find the entire fighting game genre frustrating.  Like I said, it may be an age thing (47), as I was already in the Army and didn't frequent arcades in the 90s.  I didn't experience fighters in their glory days, so I have no sentimental or nostalgic attachment to them. 

When I have the time to game, I prefer a quick dose of Ms Pac, Galaga, Dig Dug, 1942, Ghost and Goblins, etc.  A simplistic game with one or two buttons that is accessible by anyone.  Fighters are simply too much "work" and often devolve into a incessant button mashing fiasco.   

The reason I ask, is that it appears that 98% of the control panels have the Capcom 2x3 button layout, which is for fighting games.  Am I the only grouchy "get off my lawn kid" guy who doesn't get fighters?  Did you add fighting games and all the extra buttons because it is "expected" like I did? 

Just a topic for conversation.....

No you are NOT alone, I find them tedious and unimaginative, In fact even working on them is less than fun, Secretly, I even sometimes hire a neighbor kid to play them for me so Jenn doesn't have to waste her time even testing them, and burning them in after a repair.

[yotsuya]

and unimaginative, In fact even working on them is less than fun, Secretly, I even sometimes hire a neighbor kid to play them for me so Jenn doesn't have to waste her time even testing them, and burning them in after a repair.

Oh, so Jenn just likes to watch, huh

[jennifer]

and unimaginative, In fact even working on them is less than fun, Secretly, I even sometimes hire a neighbor kid to play them for me so Jenn doesn't have to waste her time even testing them, and burning them in after a repair.

Oh, so Jenn just likes to watch, huh

OMG!!!, Whatevever, *(Fingers in my ears)* Sicko.... Fighter games are even less fun to watch than play.

[rackoon]

I hate fighting games when I have to play the computer. But man, I have had some serious good times over the years playing fighting games. We play samuri showdown 4 ever day for the past year at work and it is the highlight of my day.

If its just me, I will go for some robotron or black widow

[postmortem]

KI combos are different to other games though.

I always felt you could get a pretty decent combo going by pure fluke pretty much!

I used to love KI on the 64 and good do some serious damage with Jago.

But I could never tell you what I actually did LOL

There are some combos that you can freestyle, but then there are these epic combos =P

[DrakeTungsten]

Like I said, it may be an age thing (47), as I was already in the Army and didn't frequent arcades in the 90s.  I didn't experience fighters in their glory days, so I have no sentimental or nostalgic attachment to them.

Add a year and swap the army for the USMC, and that's my story too. I didn't know anything about the genre until about ten years ago. I was vaguely aware of a "Street Fighter" franchise from other arenas of pop culture, and that was it. When I got serious about MAME and looked into fighters, the complexity was a turn-off, but two things drew me in: Hulk and Spider-Man. I've been a huge fan of the characters since I was a kid, and Marvel vs Capcom was certainly fun enough button-mashing with Hulk and Spidey, especially since the most graphically impressive arcade game I played up until then was Black Tiger. Once I had the concepts down from MvC, I decided I might as well explore other fighters. I ended up with a dozen in my favorites lists, compared to 80 shmups and 70 platformers/brawlers. So I can't say the genre has become a passion for me, but I'm glad MvC introduced me to it.

Side rant: Even supposedly beginner-friendly instructions never adequately explained the meaning of "cancel". I get it now, but for a while, I couldn't understand why they kept advising their readers to enter a command only to immediately cancel it. I figured if I ever faced them, I could wipe the floor with these supposed hard-core players simply because I was wise enough to not spend all my time entering complex moves I was just going to cancel anyway.

[Ian]

Growing up, it always felt when you played a game, it was you against the machine.

When SF and MK came along, it was no longer you vs the machine, but you vs a d-bag (usually).

Not 100% fair.. I have always had a positive experience going up against another person. Like anything competitive we usually always ended a game with "Good Game" or "You kicked ---my bottom---, good job" or even a hand shake... But that level of general respect to our fellow gamers kind of left once the online thing started booming. Now everyone is a tough guy that wants to T-bag csnow's mama.

I was talking about online.  I rarely find anyone online that is polite, pleasant, or gentleman-like.  If someone pulled those comments in person next to me on a machine, it would be another issue entirely.  In person, generally people are friendly.  Behind keyboards, controllers, on the Interweb the anonymity somehow brings out the worst in people.  Not always, but most times.

Very true my friend!

[WaRpEd]

I've always been more into the Gauntlet and Gyruss style games than the fighter the op mentioned. I used to play Mortal Kombat with my son when younger but he's into the 1st person shooter games these days. 

[ivwshane]

To me fighting games are just like any other game. Once you learn how to play it they become more fun. Take Pac man for example; to a noob you are just running around trying to eat pellets and not get touched by a ghost, however to someone who knows how to play the game it becomes a game about patterns. When you learn about a pattern, say for example how one type of ghost acts, the game becomes more fun and interesting.

For fighting games its the same way. Its cool when you learn new moves but of course that quickly wears out but then you learn how to use those moves with other moves to create combos. Even then though you might still get board but if you continue to practice you start recognizing things such as spacing and finding advantages requiring reactions that must be done in a single frame.

The point is, most quality games have different levels of complexity to them and the more complexities you master the funner the game becomes.

I will say this though, fighting games really are more fun when it's human vs human and when both players are interested in getting better. Without the other human opponent is just s matter of figuring out how to beat the AI and a lot of the time it can be done with a limited move set (I've played fighting games vs CPU and limited myself to one type of button and still beat the game).