Beginner info requested - Jpac & arcade monitor

[jtb1987]

Hi everyone,
I have been working on my first mame project and am finally getting around to this phase (connecting the arcade monitor to my PC).

I purchased an old MK1 cabinet that had been converted to Tekken 3. It came with a working arcade monitor: Wells-Gardner model #: 25k7401 and Jamma board.

I went ahead and ordered an Ultrimarc Jpac board.

My understanding is that I have two options in connecting my PC to the arcade monitor:

Option 1:

I can buy the arcade VGA card from Ultrimarc and connect the monitor to the jamma board, connect the jamma board to the jpac and connect the jpac to the arcade VGA -

Is this correct? What else is involved to get this option to work? Is there a defacto "official" guide/tutorial out there for this option?

Option 2:

I can use my PC's existing video card (I think it's a semi recent GeForce card) and download softkhz 15 and groovymame and "CRT emulator drivers". This method I would connect the arcade CRT to the jamma, connect the jamma to the jpac, connect the jpac to ?

I"m not exactly clear on the connections for this option and is there a also a defacto "official" guide/tutorial out there for this option?

Thanks for any help or pointing in the right direction for additional research!!!

[buttersoft]

It came with a working arcade monitor: Wells-Gardner model #: 25k7401 and Jamma board...

...I can buy the arcade VGA card from Ultrimarc and connect the monitor to the jamma board, connect the jamma board to the jpac and connect the jpac to the arcade VGA -...

...I can use my PC's existing video card (I think it's a semi recent GeForce card) and download softkhz 15 and groovymame and "CRT emulator drivers". This method I would connect the arcade CRT to the jamma, connect the jamma to the jpac, connect the jpac to ?...

So, you need to find a way to get 15kHz modes out of the PC. If you're using Linux, you can do what you want, just set up the modelines with whatever card you have. If you need more explanation than that, you don't want to be using Linux

Under windows, you will not be able to use a newer GeForce card easily, if at all. At a guess, newer means anything from the GTX 400 series up, though I'm not sure where the limit lies. For anything older than that, but newer than the ancient 6000GT cards, you need a dongle. This is a device that plugs into the GPU, and you plug the monitor into that (or the Jpac, here). It delivers an EDID that makes windows think there is a 15kHz monitor connected.  Sailorsat was selling them a few years back. This gets around the limit built into the Nvidia drivers, which do not allow modes lower than 31kHz without the monitor specifically saying it's ok. You can install Soft15kHz, the modes will show up, and you can select them, but the GPU won't deliver them, and will instead go for 31kHz/480p. For newer NVidia cards the dongle doesn't work either.

The exception to this are the NVidia Quadro series cards. They have a way of faking an EDID. It's not perfect, but it can be used AFAIK.

The Ultimarc ArcadeVGA cards were a revolution, but even better now is to use a regular Radeon card along with crt_emudriver. It's also much easier, and in addition allows you to get all the cool automatic features out of GroovyMAME. Calamity is in the process of updating the driver to work with up-to-date cards, but right now an HD 5000 or 6000 series Radeon card is great. You can pick them up second-hand pretty easily on Ebay or Gumtree/CL/Kijiji. The higher the card the more power it draws and the more heat it generates, so the cab may need fans if the card has two itself, as a guide. And MAME is entirely CPU dependent; the GPU is merely needed to push a video mode. Other emulators and games can be quite different, of course.

If you do go the crt_emudriver route, follow the guides for the 5000 (and up) cards here - http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewforum.php?id=2 and after that look at the GroovyMAME setup guide there. It's slightly older, and the stretching options aren't quite right as described. Possibly just leave them as they are in the newer builds of GM, or ask in the GM forum. It's in the list at the top of the forums.

After that, you connect the PC to the JPAC with a VGA cable and a USB cable, and connect the JPAC edge-connector to the cabinet's Jamma harness the same way an arcade board would have plugged in. If everything is already wired and working, you're good to go. The JPAC has extra slots so you don't need a kick harness. There may be a few minor screen adjustments needed, for brightness and position and such. And there's a jumper on the JPAC that enables monitor protection. Putting it in the 15kHz position means the JPAC will only pass 15kHz modes. You may also want to look into monitor ranges, and there's some starting info in the stickies on the GM forum.

I will admit to never having used a JPAC, but I think that's how it all works. You can always ask Andy from Ultimarc any questions you have, by reputation he's really helpful. And I have no idea about sound, which is why I've said nothing about it A jamma board had its own amplifier built in, but I'm not sure how you get sound into the JPAC.

[jtb1987]

It came with a working arcade monitor: Wells-Gardner model #: 25k7401 and Jamma board...

...I can buy the arcade VGA card from Ultrimarc and connect the monitor to the jamma board, connect the jamma board to the jpac and connect the jpac to the arcade VGA -...

...I can use my PC's existing video card (I think it's a semi recent GeForce card) and download softkhz 15 and groovymame and "CRT emulator drivers". This method I would connect the arcade CRT to the jamma, connect the jamma to the jpac, connect the jpac to ?...

So, you need to find a way to get 15kHz modes out of the PC. If you're using Linux, you can do what you want, just set up the modelines with whatever card you have. If you need more explanation than that, you don't want to be using Linux

Under windows, you will not be able to use a newer GeForce card easily, if at all. At a guess, newer means anything from the GTX 400 series up, though I'm not sure where the limit lies. For anything older than that, but newer than the ancient 6000GT cards, you need a dongle. This is a device that plugs into the GPU, and you plug the monitor into that (or the Jpac, here). It delivers an EDID that makes windows think there is a 15kHz monitor connected.  Sailorsat was selling them a few years back. This gets around the limit built into the Nvidia drivers, which do not allow modes lower than 31kHz without the monitor specifically saying it's ok. You can install Soft15kHz, the modes will show up, and you can select them, but the GPU won't deliver them, and will instead go for 31kHz/480p. For newer NVidia cards the dongle doesn't work either.

The exception to this are the NVidia Quadro series cards. They have a way of faking an EDID. It's not perfect, but it can be used AFAIK.

The Ultimarc ArcadeVGA cards were a revolution, but even better now is to use a regular Radeon card along with crt_emudriver. It's also much easier, and in addition allows you to get all the cool automatic features out of GroovyMAME. Calamity is in the process of updating the driver to work with up-to-date cards, but right now an HD 5000 or 6000 series Radeon card is great. You can pick them up second-hand pretty easily on Ebay or Gumtree/CL/Kijiji. The higher the card the more power it draws and the more heat it generates, so the cab may need fans if the card has two itself, as a guide. And MAME is entirely CPU dependent; the GPU is merely needed to push a video mode. Other emulators and games can be quite different, of course.

If you do go the crt_emudriver route, follow the guides for the 5000 (and up) cards here - http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewforum.php?id=2 and after that look at the GroovyMAME setup guide there. It's slightly older, and the stretching options aren't quite right as described. Possibly just leave them as they are in the newer builds of GM, or ask in the GM forum. It's in the list at the top of the forums.

After that, you connect the PC to the JPAC with a VGA cable and a USB cable, and connect the JPAC edge-connector to the cabinet's Jamma harness the same way an arcade board would have plugged in. If everything is already wired and working, you're good to go. The JPAC has extra slots so you don't need a kick harness. There may be a few minor screen adjustments needed, for brightness and position and such. And there's a jumper on the JPAC that enables monitor protection. Putting it in the 15kHz position means the JPAC will only pass 15kHz modes. You may also want to look into monitor ranges, and there's some starting info in the stickies on the GM forum.

I will admit to never having used a JPAC, but I think that's how it all works. You can always ask Andy from Ultimarc any questions you have, by reputation he's really helpful. And I have no idea about sound, which is why I've said nothing about it A jamma board had its own amplifier built in, but I'm not sure how you get sound into the JPAC.

This was really, really helpful, thank you!
However, I've run into an unexpected problem so I'm just trying to re-assess everything now. I've hooked up the arcade monitor the way it originally came and there is now somehow a problem with it.

It has a blue tint on the screen no matter what (see pic attached)...I'm now trying to research what it could be and what my options would be. I'm finding mixed results in my research, on whether it could be a bad transistor, tube is bad altogether, etc. - being so inexperienced/new to the scene, I have no way to know how to verify what the issue is to lookup how I go about fixing it. I'm considering looking into a local arcade repair shop close to where I live (Raleigh, NC).

If it just becomes too complicated...I may have to go the LCD route...which I didn't realize was also an issue. If I go that route, apparently the issue is finding an LCD that would best fit the 25" space of the cabinet that also:

1. Doesn't have long input lag
2. 4:3 (which i understand it's impossible to find this type of monitor now) or 16:10 which also seems like it's impossible to find at a decent price
3. Now need to find a way to mount it inside the cabinet plus create some sort of custom bezel

Is there a lcd screen that BYOAC recommends for people giving up and going this route (still my plan B for now)?

Sigh lol
It seems like I lose no matter what direction I go haha

[buttersoft]

CRT's can be dangerous to poke around - make sure you discharge properly and take care in general!

I know a lot less about arcade monitors than about getting 15kHz out of a windows PC, but...

The picture was fine when you got the cab, but now it isn't? What time frame there? You only have Blue left, no trace of other colours? It seems unlikely that both red and green would completely go at once. Arcade chassis normally keep each of the three lines totally isolated, there's no common components to blame save possibly a ground connection. It's probably not a B-G1/2 short as that would produce a bright (blue?) raster with retrace lines. You've tried turning up the bias and gain for Red and Green? Reseating all the plugs, the CRT socket, checking for corrosion and for bad solder joints? The last you can often detect by pushing on one spot of the chassis while it's running, flexing any tiny gaps closed. Be delicate, of course.

Which leaves... I don't know. Are all three lines receiving signal voltage? While the Tekken PCB is powered up, the chassis should be receiving video signal on each of the three colours at anywhere between 1.2 and 3.5VDC, at a rough guess. Each connector socket has solder points underneath and you can use a multimeter there. After that, you can try tracing the signal for each colour as it goes through the chassis, through transistors and such. Don't worry about levels so much as that the voltages are present, that they go away or change greatly when you unplug the Tekken PCB, and that they aren't hugely disparate between the different colours at similar points. Some combination of those three factors may help you diagnose what's wrong and where.

Somewhere down the line, as the video signals go from stage to stage, they get can get amplified to a few hundred volts. This normally happens on the neckboard, which is also feeding the grids, and those will be at over 500VDC. If you bust your comfort limit, the arcade repair shop might be the go.

I know next to nothing about using LCD's in a cab, so I can't recommend anything there!

EDIT: I see you've posted in the other thread. Best thing to do really

[jtb1987]

Thank you so much for the in depth reply - luckily, per the other thread... it sounds like it may be a simpler problem to solve (hopefully!!!)

[jtb1987]

It came with a working arcade monitor: Wells-Gardner model #: 25k7401 and Jamma board...

...I can buy the arcade VGA card from Ultrimarc and connect the monitor to the jamma board, connect the jamma board to the jpac and connect the jpac to the arcade VGA -...

...I can use my PC's existing video card (I think it's a semi recent GeForce card) and download softkhz 15 and groovymame and "CRT emulator drivers". This method I would connect the arcade CRT to the jamma, connect the jamma to the jpac, connect the jpac to ?...

So, you need to find a way to get 15kHz modes out of the PC. If you're using Linux, you can do what you want, just set up the modelines with whatever card you have. If you need more explanation than that, you don't want to be using Linux

Under windows, you will not be able to use a newer GeForce card easily, if at all. At a guess, newer means anything from the GTX 400 series up, though I'm not sure where the limit lies. For anything older than that, but newer than the ancient 6000GT cards, you need a dongle. This is a device that plugs into the GPU, and you plug the monitor into that (or the Jpac, here). It delivers an EDID that makes windows think there is a 15kHz monitor connected.  Sailorsat was selling them a few years back. This gets around the limit built into the Nvidia drivers, which do not allow modes lower than 31kHz without the monitor specifically saying it's ok. You can install Soft15kHz, the modes will show up, and you can select them, but the GPU won't deliver them, and will instead go for 31kHz/480p. For newer NVidia cards the dongle doesn't work either.

The exception to this are the NVidia Quadro series cards. They have a way of faking an EDID. It's not perfect, but it can be used AFAIK.

The Ultimarc ArcadeVGA cards were a revolution, but even better now is to use a regular Radeon card along with crt_emudriver. It's also much easier, and in addition allows you to get all the cool automatic features out of GroovyMAME. Calamity is in the process of updating the driver to work with up-to-date cards, but right now an HD 5000 or 6000 series Radeon card is great. You can pick them up second-hand pretty easily on Ebay or Gumtree/CL/Kijiji. The higher the card the more power it draws and the more heat it generates, so the cab may need fans if the card has two itself, as a guide. And MAME is entirely CPU dependent; the GPU is merely needed to push a video mode. Other emulators and games can be quite different, of course.

If you do go the crt_emudriver route, follow the guides for the 5000 (and up) cards here - http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewforum.php?id=2 and after that look at the GroovyMAME setup guide there. It's slightly older, and the stretching options aren't quite right as described. Possibly just leave them as they are in the newer builds of GM, or ask in the GM forum. It's in the list at the top of the forums.

After that, you connect the PC to the JPAC with a VGA cable and a USB cable, and connect the JPAC edge-connector to the cabinet's Jamma harness the same way an arcade board would have plugged in. If everything is already wired and working, you're good to go. The JPAC has extra slots so you don't need a kick harness. There may be a few minor screen adjustments needed, for brightness and position and such. And there's a jumper on the JPAC that enables monitor protection. Putting it in the 15kHz position means the JPAC will only pass 15kHz modes. You may also want to look into monitor ranges, and there's some starting info in the stickies on the GM forum.

I will admit to never having used a JPAC, but I think that's how it all works. You can always ask Andy from Ultimarc any questions you have, by reputation he's really helpful. And I have no idea about sound, which is why I've said nothing about it A jamma board had its own amplifier built in, but I'm not sure how you get sound into the JPAC.

buttersoft,

Going back to your response here -
The machine I'm working with is a Windows 7 64 bit with a Nvidia Geforce GT 220. So the video card does seem like it's an older Nvidia card - could I still go the Soft 15khz route? (will it work with Windows 7 + this card?)

Going the Soft 15khz route, would I still need this dongle that you refer to?

Not going the Soft 15khz route, could I use this Nvidia Geforce GT 220 card with the CRT_emulation driver? + Groovymame?
Or do I HAVE to for sure buy a Radeon HD 5000 card? If yes, is this one that would work?: http://www.ebay.com/itm/XFX-HD-5000-Radeon-HD-5450-DirectX-11-HD-545X-ZQH2-1GB-64-Bit-DDR3-PCI-Express-2-/302039066912?hash=item4652ee6920:g:Ec4AAOSwgNRV8DU9


I also had a question about the sound based on your response.
For my cabinet, I was only planning on using the Jamma board and Jpac to connect the monitor, that's it. All the joystick/buttons I was going to control directly into the PC via USB. I was going to do the same with the audio, I was going to bypass the jamma/jpac altogether and use PC speakers directly connected into the PC. Can you confirm that I can do this?  Thanks for so much help already!!

[jtb1987]

It came with a working arcade monitor: Wells-Gardner model #: 25k7401 and Jamma board...

...I can buy the arcade VGA card from Ultrimarc and connect the monitor to the jamma board, connect the jamma board to the jpac and connect the jpac to the arcade VGA -...

...I can use my PC's existing video card (I think it's a semi recent GeForce card) and download softkhz 15 and groovymame and "CRT emulator drivers". This method I would connect the arcade CRT to the jamma, connect the jamma to the jpac, connect the jpac to ?...

So, you need to find a way to get 15kHz modes out of the PC. If you're using Linux, you can do what you want, just set up the modelines with whatever card you have. If you need more explanation than that, you don't want to be using Linux

Under windows, you will not be able to use a newer GeForce card easily, if at all. At a guess, newer means anything from the GTX 400 series up, though I'm not sure where the limit lies. For anything older than that, but newer than the ancient 6000GT cards, you need a dongle. This is a device that plugs into the GPU, and you plug the monitor into that (or the Jpac, here). It delivers an EDID that makes windows think there is a 15kHz monitor connected.  Sailorsat was selling them a few years back. This gets around the limit built into the Nvidia drivers, which do not allow modes lower than 31kHz without the monitor specifically saying it's ok. You can install Soft15kHz, the modes will show up, and you can select them, but the GPU won't deliver them, and will instead go for 31kHz/480p. For newer NVidia cards the dongle doesn't work either.

The exception to this are the NVidia Quadro series cards. They have a way of faking an EDID. It's not perfect, but it can be used AFAIK.

The Ultimarc ArcadeVGA cards were a revolution, but even better now is to use a regular Radeon card along with crt_emudriver. It's also much easier, and in addition allows you to get all the cool automatic features out of GroovyMAME. Calamity is in the process of updating the driver to work with up-to-date cards, but right now an HD 5000 or 6000 series Radeon card is great. You can pick them up second-hand pretty easily on Ebay or Gumtree/CL/Kijiji. The higher the card the more power it draws and the more heat it generates, so the cab may need fans if the card has two itself, as a guide. And MAME is entirely CPU dependent; the GPU is merely needed to push a video mode. Other emulators and games can be quite different, of course.

If you do go the crt_emudriver route, follow the guides for the 5000 (and up) cards here - http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewforum.php?id=2 and after that look at the GroovyMAME setup guide there. It's slightly older, and the stretching options aren't quite right as described. Possibly just leave them as they are in the newer builds of GM, or ask in the GM forum. It's in the list at the top of the forums.

After that, you connect the PC to the JPAC with a VGA cable and a USB cable, and connect the JPAC edge-connector to the cabinet's Jamma harness the same way an arcade board would have plugged in. If everything is already wired and working, you're good to go. The JPAC has extra slots so you don't need a kick harness. There may be a few minor screen adjustments needed, for brightness and position and such. And there's a jumper on the JPAC that enables monitor protection. Putting it in the 15kHz position means the JPAC will only pass 15kHz modes. You may also want to look into monitor ranges, and there's some starting info in the stickies on the GM forum.

I will admit to never having used a JPAC, but I think that's how it all works. You can always ask Andy from Ultimarc any questions you have, by reputation he's really helpful. And I have no idea about sound, which is why I've said nothing about it A jamma board had its own amplifier built in, but I'm not sure how you get sound into the JPAC.

buttersoft,

Going back to your response here -
The machine I'm working with is a Windows 7 64 bit with a Nvidia Geforce GT 220. So the video card does seem like it's an older Nvidia card - could I still go the Soft 15khz route? (will it work with Windows 7 + this card?)

Going the Soft 15khz route, would I still need this dongle that you refer to?

Not going the Soft 15khz route, could I use this Nvidia Geforce GT 220 card with the CRT_emulation driver? + Groovymame?
Or do I HAVE to for sure buy a Radeon HD 5000 card? If yes, is this one that would work?: http://www.ebay.com/itm/XFX-HD-5000-Radeon-HD-5450-DirectX-11-HD-545X-ZQH2-1GB-64-Bit-DDR3-PCI-Express-2-/302039066912?hash=item4652ee6920:g:Ec4AAOSwgNRV8DU9


I also had a question about the sound based on your response.
For my cabinet, I was only planning on using the Jamma board and Jpac to connect the monitor, that's it. All the joystick/buttons I was going to control directly into the PC via USB. I was going to do the same with the audio, I was going to bypass the jamma/jpac altogether and use PC speakers directly connected into the PC. Can you confirm that I can do this?  Thanks for so much help already!!

buttersoft, I decided to go ahead with ordering a Radeon HD 4890 card to use with the Jpac/Jamma and with the CRT emulation driver + groovymame.
I wasn't sure when reading the guide but I also went ahead and ordered a "dvi-vga adaptor", it seemed like this was also required, although I"m not entirely sure.

[buttersoft]

NO! Don't get the 4890. Get a 5000 or 6000 series card instead. The EDID emulation available on 5000 series and higher cards works much better and much more easily under windows, and you won't have headaches every time you unplug things and plug them in again. As for choosing which 5000 or 6000 series card to buy:

The higher [within each series] the card the more power it draws and the more heat it generates, so the cab may need fans if the card has two itself, as a guide. And MAME is entirely CPU dependent; the GPU is merely needed to push a video mode. Other emulators and games can be quite different, of course.

Also, the 5000 series cards can have two analogue-capable (DVI-I or VGA) ports, where the 6000 series has only one. Not a problem if you only want one output though. And you'll need a DVI-VGA adapter if the card has no VGA port. TBH you may want one anyway as the ribboned VGA ports can be subject to noise, it's said. (DVI-I delivers the same signal as VGA, just through a different plug. For newer cards, one port might be right (DVI-I = analog + digital on different pins) and one wrong (DVI-D = digital only) so you have to figure out which, and emulate the EDID on the one you're going to use. The DVI-I and DVI-D ports can look identical, though strictly they're not supposed to.)

(The possible exception to the 5000 series and up cards being best is if you know you want to run a lot of 480i (or other interlaced-mode) content AND you have a monitor that handles interlaced modes without flicker. The 4000 series and below cards don't have a flicker-filter - the image is a little sharper without it. If your monitor flickers though, I much prefer a card with the filter i.e. 5000 series and up.)

Either way the Nividia GT 220 is far too new for Soft15kHz. Probably won't work even with the dongle, but I'm guessing there. And crt_emudriver is a modified AMD/ATI Radeon driver, so it only works with those cards, not with NVidia.

The sound option you speak of should be fine. We all do it that way as you get better sound And the Joystick + buttons are fine going straight to the PC. The Jamma wiriring in the cab already might have been handy for that last though, but it's up to you.

EDIT: If you've already ordered the 4890 and you can't get out of it, it'll probably require you to vent the cab if you're going to use it inside the house for more than half an hour at a time. And remember to follow Calamity's guide for the 4000 series and below cards, not the one for the 5000 series and up.

[jtb1987]

buttersoft thanks again for the reply -

Does this look like a good one?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XFX-HD-5000-Radeon-HD-5450-DirectX-11-HD-545X-ZQH2-1GB-64-Bit-DDR3-PCI-Express-2-/302039066912?hash=item4652ee6920:g:Ec4AAOSwgNRV8DU9

[buttersoft]

That one'll work, yes. Price is good for being new, though it's the lowest-end 5000 series desktop card available. However, GroovyMAME or MAME itself use no GPU grunt at all, as I noted. Are you hoping to run anything that might? (Demul, supermodel, Taito Type X, any native windows games or steam games, etc?) If not, you're good to go.

You can always upgrade later, anyway. It's an addictive hobby

[jtb1987]

I think I'd rather get something more powerful and have the option to!!
Is there a version recommended for those? (is it just a matter of moving up to 6000 or can you get a higher end 5000? If so, which one?)

Is this a "higher end" HD 5000 card that would still be compatible with CRT emu?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XFX-ATI-Radeon-HD-5970-HD597ACNF9-2GB-2GB-max-GDDR5-SDRAM-PCI-Express-/272523469402?hash=item3f73aa225a:g:dcgAAOSwEzxYWsZQ

Also, games from the emulators you mention, are they not more geared more for LCD screens or will they still look good on an old Wells Gardner Arcade monitor?

[buttersoft]

High numbers, after the first "series" designator, mean more powerful cards. Generally you drop one iteration for a comparable card of the series above. So a 5970, the most powerful single GPU card in AMD's Radeon HD 5000 series, is about as powerful as a 6950. The 6950 is a little newer, and may have a few features the old one doesn't. I will not only draw less power, being newer and lower from the top of the series (the 6970 being top, IIRC) it will also probably draw less power to do the same thing.

The card you've linked, the 5970, will certainly do the job. That one seems a bit pricey. I picked up a 6950 for $50AUD, so about $35USD. You may need to pair it with a decent CPU (i5 XXX at minimum) to get good results from more modern emulators like demul or supermodel. It may also mean you have to put some fans in the cab though. Run it with everything closed for a little bit, then open it up and see if it's going to get too warm.

Any 5000, 6000 or 7000 series card has the flicker filtering. This means games that run at your effective maximum resolution (640x480) will need to do so in interlaced mode, and the filter is good for that. If there's no 480p mode in your system, Windows simply grabs the 480i mode when you tell games to go into 640x480. As long as the screen is in good condition a lot of games look great like this. Mostly driving games, but also a few TTX and Demul titles. Outrun 2, model 2 emulator, supermodel, most demul stuff, and most TTX games are all good (though finding TTX stuff isn't easy, and running it can be worse). The first GRID game, and tons of older games, look pretty good too. It'd also work for PS2/GC/Wii emulation, if that needs GPU power, though I'm not sure if it does. Higher res and texture packs look nice too, for 3D, but I liked having the option to play them as well as 240p stuff. My cab CPU's are a bit on the light side, being E6600 Core2Duo's, so I struggle with demul and supermodel, but they do run.

TBH though, if you're not so concerned about driving games, which don't work so well with a joystick anyway, you may not need the grunt. And like I said, if you try the lower card and want a bit more power later on, wait for a more powerful one to pop up. In the meantime Calamity may have finished updating the driver for newer cards too, which might give you more cheaper options.

[jtb1987]

High numbers, after the first "series" designator, mean more powerful cards. Generally you drop one iteration for a comparable card of the series above. So a 5970, the most powerful single GPU card in AMD's Radeon HD 5000 series, is about as powerful as a 6950. The 6950 is a little newer, and may have a few features the old one doesn't. I will not only draw less power, being newer and lower from the top of the series (the 6970 being top, IIRC) it will also probably draw less power to do the same thing.

The card you've linked, the 5970, will certainly do the job. That one seems a bit pricey. I picked up a 6950 for $50AUD, so about $35USD. You may need to pair it with a decent CPU (i5 XXX at minimum) to get good results from more modern emulators like demul or supermodel. It may also mean you have to put some fans in the cab though. Run it with everything closed for a little bit, then open it up and see if it's going to get too warm.

Any 5000, 6000 or 7000 series card has the flicker filtering. This means games that run at your effective maximum resolution (640x480) will need to do so in interlaced mode, and the filter is good for that. If there's no 480p mode in your system, Windows simply grabs the 480i mode when you tell games to go into 640x480. As long as the screen is in good condition a lot of games look great like this. Mostly driving games, but also a few TTX and Demul titles. Outrun 2, model 2 emulator, supermodel, most demul stuff, and most TTX games are all good (though finding TTX stuff isn't easy, and running it can be worse). The first GRID game, and tons of older games, look pretty good too. It'd also work for PS2/GC/Wii emulation, if that needs GPU power, though I'm not sure if it does. Higher res and texture packs look nice too, for 3D, but I liked having the option to play them as well as 240p stuff. My cab CPU's are a bit on the light side, being E6600 Core2Duo's, so I struggle with demul and supermodel, but they do run.

TBH though, if you're not so concerned about driving games, which don't work so well with a joystick anyway, you may not need the grunt. And like I said, if you try the lower card and want a bit more power later on, wait for a more powerful one to pop up. In the meantime Calamity may have finished updating the driver for newer cards too, which might give you more cheaper options.

Thank you again...
I think I going to settle for the Radeon HD 6850 for $40 USA.
When I install this card, do I need to install both the latest drivers for this card AND the Calamity CRT drivers.....or do I only install the Calamity CRT drivers?

[buttersoft]

Install Calamity's crt_emudriver over a new copy of windows, if possible. You can only have one driver working at once anyway, so it would install over the top of the regular drivers if you used those first, but sometimes little bits hang around and mess you up (That's why driver-cleaners are a thing. Not that I'd recommend anything but the manufacturer's tool for that purpose.)

Make sure to use the right guide for your card though. There are only two, one for 4000 series and below; the other for 5000 series and up. I linked to them in the second post of this thread.