My Super Joysticks bounce back and forth before centering

[monkeybomb]

Do the springs typically need replacing after a while?  If I push the joystick all the way to the left, and then let go, it will trigger the switch for the right, then the left, then the right a couple of times.  Is there a stiffer replacement spring for Happ Super joysticks?  I suspect this is one of those things where shipping would make it not worth it to buy the part, but I need 6, so it might be woth it.

Is it likely that there is a different problem?  Do I just need to get new joysticks?

[yotsuya]

I've noticed a lot of the new Happs are like that. My IL's don't do it, but my Competitions did.

[monkeybomb]

I've noticed a lot of the new Happs are like that. My IL's don't do it, but my Competitions did.

Mine are 10 years old, but it sounds like you are telling me that even if I replace them with new sticks, it's going to be just as bad.  Ugh...

[yotsuya]

I dunno, maybe you could try a stiffer spring.

[Slippyblade]

That's some insane bounce if it is enough to trigger the opposite switch!

[tommy152]

My competitions have some bounce, but I don't think enough to trigger the opposite switch.

[RandyT]

If I push the joystick all the way to the left, and then let go, it will trigger the switch for the right, then the left, then the right a couple of times. 

I just tried about doing what you describe with about a dozen new HAPP Competitions sticks.  Not one of them goes past center when released.  I can make it do this, if I slap the stick hard in one direction without holding it, but I'm unaware of any games where this type of action is warranted.

But springs do indeed wear over time.  The interesting thing about springs is that they can be held compressed almost indefinitely, without losing their force.  It is the action of compressing and decompressing (i.e. use) which causes them to become weaker over time.

So yes, the spring in a 10 year old stick will likely be pretty soft.  Using spacers to compress the spring more, might get another year or two out of it.  But for what a new one costs, along with the possibility that other parts are worn, you might as well just replace the whole thing and use the old one for spare parts.

[yotsuya]

If I push the joystick all the way to the left, and then let go, it will trigger the switch for the right, then the left, then the right a couple of times. 

I just tried about doing what you describe with about a dozen new HAPP Competitions sticks.  Not one of them goes past center when released.  I can make it do this, if I slap the stick hard in one direction without holding it, but I'm unaware of any games where this type of action is warranted.

But springs do indeed wear over time.  The interesting thing about springs is that they can be held compressed almost indefinitely, without losing their force.  It is the action of compressing and decompressing (i.e. use) which causes them to become weaker over time.

So yes, the spring in a 10 year old stick will likely be pretty soft.  Using spacers to compress the spring more, might get another year or two out of it.  But for what a new one costs, along with the possibility that other parts are worn, you might as well just replace the whole thing and use the old one for spare parts.

Not to disagree with you, Randy, but when my Comps were new and I would play a game like Pac-Man, if I were going right and then let go, the joy would spring back to center but go left enough to trigger the left micro and make Pac-Man go in a different direction. My solution was to buy your 4-way Pac Pro.

[RandyT]

Not to disagree with you, Randy, but when my Comps were new and I would play a game like Pac-Man, if I were going right and then let go, the joy would spring back to center but go left enough to trigger the left micro and make Pac-Man go in a different direction. My solution was to buy your 4-way Pac Pro.

No worries, I trust you completely .  It may be that HAPP, at some point, were using softer springs.  But after reading the original post, I went straight to the store room to check for myself.  If new HAPP Competitions were doing this at some point in the past, something has changed, as they don't do it with the current stock.

I probably should also mention that it's also something which not everyone would experience negatively, depending on how they play.  Personally, I never fully release the joystick when playing, so I would never experience the issue, even with a well worn spring.  I also don't prefer sticks which have a "hard" center.   But I fully understand that tastes and playing styles vary, so we check for all of these  kinds of things.  Glad to hear that you are enjoying the Pac-Pro

[DeLuSioNal29]

Do the springs typically need replacing after a while?  If I push the joystick all the way to the left, and then let go, it will trigger the switch for the right, then the left, then the right a couple of times.  Is there a stiffer replacement spring for Happ Super joysticks?  I suspect this is one of those things where shipping would make it not worth it to buy the part, but I need 6, so it might be woth it.

Is it likely that there is a different problem?  Do I just need to get new joysticks?

I agree, Happ Competition joysticks do it WAY easier.  But Supers don't as much.

D

[Xiaou2]

I sometimes find this kind of thing hard to believe.

 If you let go of your controller... you lose control.

 So why let go?

 Return to center springs are merely to assist.   The sticks are not really designed with the purpose as to be flung, then let go.
(with the exception of the single direction sprung mini analog baseball style controllers)

 Yes, you can add a heavier spring (or stretch the existing spring)  ... but thats just going to create added resistance that will cause quicker hand fatigue, and slower reaction times.

 Supers are designed with a lot more friction, so will be less prone to being as springy.   However,  again,  is makes them a lot slower and fatiguing to use.   Test this by wiggling the stick left to right as fast as possible for a solid 60 seconds.  The compare the same results to a comp.   The comp will feel faster and easier to perform the tasks.

 The other exception are real Leaf Switch joysticks that use a Rubber Gromet for centering.   The gromet is more of a pivot, rather than a spring.   They wont spring back and forth.    They are a bit more firm... but... they activate their switches with far less stick travel than most typical microswitch sticks.     The feeling in much nicer for classics...  as there is no hard Thump when you clash into the endpoints of travel.  The rubber absorbs noise, vibrations, and excess impact forces.

 Wico leaf sticks however,  are not that well suited to highly accurate requirements such as Fighting games.

[monkeybomb]

I don't actually let go during gameplay.  It was just a test and example to demonstrate how loose and sloppy this stick really is.  It's not as bad as the stick I used on an IBM PC Junior with no centering at all.  But it's bad enough for everyone to notice and complain about.

So where do I actually get stiffer springs?  I found lots of springs for Japanese sticks, but not the supers.

[yotsuya]

I actually saw it happening a lot more during front end navigation, especially going up and down. But it did occur during gameplay as well.

[jeremymtc]

I don't actually let go during gameplay.  It was just a test and example to demonstrate how loose and sloppy this stick really is.  It's not as bad as the stick I used on an IBM PC Junior with no centering at all.  But it's bad enough for everyone to notice and complain about.

So where do I actually get stiffer springs?  I found lots of springs for Japanese sticks, but not the supers.

I've not seen any aftermarket sources for springs for Il/Happ sticks, but you could just pull the spring out and give it a little manual stretch. It's a compression spring, so stretching it will increase force, for a little while. Otherwise, just replace the entire stick for the $8 or $9 or whatever they go for now.

[RandyT]

It's not as bad as the stick I used on an IBM PC Junior with no centering at all.  But it's bad enough for everyone to notice and complain about.

Everyone isn't complaining about it.  We've sold many hundreds of these units, and this is the first time I have seen anyone "complain" about this particular aspect of the stick.  Likely due to the fact that it isn't an issue while playing, if the stick isn't just let go of.  I don't often agree with X2, but in this case, he brings up very good points about joystick use and dynamics.

Stiffer springs create a harder center.  While playing, this impedes your ability to smoothly transition between directions, and increases the force required to break the center hold.  This can be a particularly detrimental on a stick with a spring centering design like these sticks have.  Less aggressive spring tension with this design offers smoother transitions and less fatigue.

[monkeybomb]

Randy, they are complaining about mine, not supers in general.  They didn't used to complain about them.  If I didn't like Supers, I wouldn't have posted at all. Please note the first sentence, "Do the springs typically need replacing after a while?"  One of these pairs is on a jamma cabinet that has been played regularly for ten years and been stored outside for 8 of those.  I can either keep the cabinet on the patio, or not have it, so outside it is.  I think the other pair is a set I pulled from a from a Hotrod SE.  For a few years, I let middle school kids play on that thing everyday after school.  Since it's several sticks, I'm hoping not to have to replace them all.  I'll give the spring stretch a shot and start replacing if that doesn't work out.

[Xiaou2]

If the sticks are that old... used well,  and sun-bleached...  its very probable they need to be replaced.

 Comps have a spacer inside.. that wears.   After enough wear.. it will sit too low, and cause poor stick movement.  You can flip the spacer over... and get it to work properly again.  However, eventually, the spacer will need complete replacement.

 Supers have spacers as well... though, theirs are less prone to wear.  (It does make them stiffer however, as a result)
These spacers may have also worn down..  and be causing the sticks to have more play in them..   as well as feeling irregular in movement.

 Take the E-Clip off with a needle-nose or vice grip,   and take a look at the internal spacers.
I believe the Super uses Two.  One that is cone shaped..  and one that is a standard cylinder shape.
The cone matches to the internal angled pit / groove ... and the cylinder is mostly for the correct depth.

 Even a mere mm of depth change... can drastically effect the way the thing operates.
Tightening the spring would not solve the issue.. because the stick depth would still be incorrect.