Unusual PS2 Project

[abkaz]

Hey folks, long-time lurker here. We're getting ready to start a new cabinet so I thought I'd start a thread since it's kind of different and I'm always open to input. I doubt that purists will be interested, but at least there aren't any cupholders in it. This is a project for someone else to enjoy. It has different challenges than a typical Mame cabinet and I enjoy a good challenge, so here we are. I have my hands in several other projects so hopefully progress won't be too slow. I'll post some specs/pics/progress updates in the next few weeks, but here are some initial details:

• Design - After I drew it up I realized it looks a lot like Chance's Flynn's Arcade. In fact after I saw it I wondered why I didn't just modify the designs he uploaded. So it's a fairly slim cab with a 4 player aircraft carrier hanging on the front. This one's several inches wider and taller. It won't be nearly as fancy either!
• The brain - This is powered by a PS2 of all things. I don't think I've seen anything like it yet and maybe an abomination like this doesn't belong here, but due to the intended audience we didn't want any weird legal issues. I'm sure there's a whole host of problems doing it this way, but at least the PS2 has a fairly deep classic arcade library. Also, with very minor rewiring the PS2 could be replaced by a true MAME box. The PS2 has a dying optical drive, so all the games have been ripped to a network share and players won't have to swap discs.
• Ridiculous number of player buttons - we're playtesting the mockup a lot, and it looks like all four players will have 8 buttons. I know, I know... it's absurd, but there are several PS2 games that just had to be included. The CP doesn't look too bad, but I'm currently wrestling with the artwork.
• Some of the design specs (height / width) are a bit oversize due to a feature we like to call the Flynn Door.

So that's it. Should be an interesting ride.

[bfauska]

 
But otherwise sounds interesting. I look forward watching your unorthodox project. Assuming that you eventually add some 

[abkaz]

Don't worry... pics are on the way! I'd add some pics now, but nothing has been cut yet so all I have are some pics of an old PS2 and some spare parts. Actual construction won't start for a week or two. Parts are starting to roll in so if anything interesting shows up I'll add some pics.

More tidbits:

• Display - with such a wide size requirement, we're using a 39" screen. It sounds huge for a cab, but if it's showing 4:3 content it's almost the exact same size as a 32" traditional monitor. So far play testing seems to be ok on it despite its size.
• Mini display - I have an extra Raspberry pi and a 7" screen.We're planning on putting the screen below the main screen (and behind the same plexi). This will show the button layout for each game and will be controlled by two buttons that scroll through the available games. If this was a Mame cab we could probably do without the buttons and automate it.

The 7" screen is excessive, but we had the extra parts and wanted to try something different. Here's an example of what it displays:

[abkaz]

More parts arrived today... this time it's a set of coin doors.

I got them really cheap ($20 each) so it was a gamble. They're in good shape and the coin mechs are in good working order. It looks like the gamble paid off. I prefer red return buttons, but we'll live with the yellow ones for now.

It will be interesting getting the coin mechs to work with the PS2, but I have a few ideas. We can't use them to make money, but we want them to accept free tokens because most games lose a lot of their fun when you have endless lives or continues. Plus, who doesn't love the sound and feeling of plunking coins into an arcade cabinet? 

[sc23]

interesting project. What are your plans for the controls, as in 2 analog sticks and a d-pad? I emulate PS2 and Gamecube on my cab but have to use an Xbox 360 pad to play the games, because a joystick and 8 buttons just doesn't work well for most PS2 games.

[abkaz]

You're right - many PS2 games don't work well with a joystick and buttons. This is primarily a classic arcade emulator more than a PS2 game center. So the controls for this cab will be similar to a typical  mame cabinet. So we're not going to try to replicate the entire functionality of a ps2 game pad. Here's the current layout. I drew the control art based on a SFII cab I saw here a while ago, but we haven't settled on a final design yet.



There are a few button mashing PS2 games that work ok with with the above layout, hence the 8 buttons for each player. If we can work out a simple dual-mod or toggle switch, we'll include regular PS2 game pads in the drawer below the control panel.

[sc23]

Cool, looks like you have thought it all out. I will be following to see how this comes together. Good luck.

[abkaz]

Thanks... I think we're zeroing in on the CP design. Here's the latest:

We're not sure if we like outlines around the controls when they are white (players 3 & 4) or 35% opaque (players 1 & 2). At least we're getting the color scheme down so we can go ahead and order the buttons and sticks soon.

[thomas_surles]

Thanks... I think we're zeroing in on the CP design. Here's the latest:

We're not sure if we like outlines around the controls when they are white (players 3 & 4) or 35% opaque (players 1 & 2). At least we're getting the color scheme down so we can go ahead and order the buttons and sticks soon.

I like player 1 and 2 better. 3 and 4 just look in finished to me. But what about transparent? Same as the rest of the panel.

[abkaz]

I agree - the white doesn't really go well with the background. We're going to go with a 15% opaque outline.

[abkaz]

More parts arrived...

This is the encoder that connects the buttons and sticks to the PS2. I'll test it out over the next few days and order three more if it works. The original plan was to do a pad hack and solder the controls to some old PS2 gamepad PCBs, but this was only $16 so it's worth a shot. If it works we'll still have the gamepads for PS2 games that don't work with the arcade controls. This board also outputs to USB, so it should be easy to swap in a MAME box in the future.

[abkaz]

The encoder works just as advertised and would be perfect if we were only trying to run classic arcade games. That particular encoder only encodes the d-pad and doesn't have an option to translate the stick into pseudo-analog stick movements for those analog-only games. So I'm back on the hunt for an encoding solution. It looks like ultimarc used to have something that would work (and also could emulate an analog stick), but I don't think they sell them anymore. The only solution I can find so far is from X-arcade, which doesn't seem to be the most popular solution around here. Or I might go back to plan A, which was a PCB hack.

[bfauska]

Do a search for the KADE encoder. I think it does analog.

[PL1]

Do a search for the KADE encoder. I think it does analog.

The only KADE encoders that do true A/D analog are the KADESTICK, maxArcade (prototype) or upcoming miniConsole+.

See the vendor list in my sig for details and links.


Scott

EDIT: Forgot about the miniArcade PS firmware pseudo analog stick movement reports mentioned below. 

Nice catch, Bruno.   

[bootsector]

The miniArcade should do it too: http://kadevice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4017

This version has a very improved version of the PS pad emulator that even works with most of the existing psx-to-anything adapters out there.

And yes, it supports pseudo analog stick movement reports too.

[abkaz]

Thanks for the reminder about Kade! It looks like the miniArcade is the way to go. Time to order one and see how it works. If I had more faith in my soldering skills and patience I'd go with the Minimus AVR since it's half the price.

I think most PS2 games will work with the pseudo-analog directions. We recently decided to add pinball to the mix since the PS2 has a few decent pinball collections. Hopefully the miniArcade will let us bind the right-analog-down to a button so we can use it to activate the plunger.

[thomas_surles]

Don't forget about barbarian. A good ps2 fighter and will make good use of your 4 player setup.

[abkaz]

Don't forget about barbarian. A good ps2 fighter and will make good use of your 4 player setup.

Thanks - We'll check it out!

[abkaz]

Progress update - The project hasn't "officially" started, but I think we have most of the parts in-hand or ordered. Actual construction should start this weekend or next weekend. Pics will come as soon as construction gets underway.

Hardware change - We're using the Kade minicade instead of the zero delay board from ebay. This will give us more customization and flexibility. I went a little overboard and ordered 10 minimus AVRs. Got them from CK3 games for $10 each (including shipping from the UK). I'm sure I'll find something to do with the extra 5.

Design changes - we're adding buttons to the sides of the CP for pinball and one in the front to activate the plunger. Pinball wasn't in the original plan, but we've been messing around with the Pinball Hall of Fame: Williams collection. It's quite good.

Side projects - There are always too many side projects, but I have a personal goal to add a couple of working namco Time Crisis guns to the cab. I see that others have successfully modded the guns with Ultimarc's Aim Trak guts. This shouldn't delay the cab at all because I'm not going to work on the guns until the cab is completed. This will be more complicated since I'll need to construct pedals and do a fair amount of rewiring.

I've modded two of the coin mechs to accept tokens and quarters and still have two to go. Anyone know of a decent source for some 25mm (.984") tokens?

[thomas_surles]

I've modded two of the coin mechs to accept tokens and quarters and still have two to go. Anyone know of a decent source for some 25mm (.984") tokens?

http://www.arcadereplay.com/
Or I suppose you can go to an arcade that has tokens or Chuck e cheese or something an get some there.

[abkaz]

The local arcades want .20 - .25 for their tokens and so does arcadereplay. I think I'll get one of the 500 mixed arcade token lots from ebay for $35. I don't mind if the tokens don't all match.

[thomas_surles]

The local arcades want .20 - .25 for their tokens and so does arcadereplay. I think I'll get one of the 500 mixed arcade token lots from ebay for $35. I don't mind if the tokens don't all match.

Yeah I saw those lots but you May not end up with a lot that will work for you. But then again you might.

[abkaz]

Yep, it's a bit of a gamble so I'll let you know how it goes. Hopefully at least a couple hundred of them are usable so a lot of it can be junk and I'd still be happy. The seller has 100% positive feedback with over 4400 transactions, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[abkaz]

Here's a quick update - We finally had an afternoon to cut some wood last week. Nothing too spectacular to see yet. I think the only interesting part of this build is the PS2. We did install OpenPS2 Loader on the the PS2 and have been testing several games. It works pretty well. When you turn on the PS2 you're presented with a list of available games and they load fairly quickly over the network.

We only need to cut the piece for the speakers above the monitor and the monitor support bracket. Then we just need a couple hours for some putty/sanding and then we'll be ready for paint.

[abkaz]

Had another day to work on the cab. It's about 95% done now. Just need locks for the coin doors and some adjustments to the drawer hardware. So here it is:

[SpaceHedgehog]

That's an extremely clean looking build - lovely woodworking too. Congratulations 

[abkaz]

More details...

The cab's design is somewhat common, so there's not much to say about it. The unique part (the PS2 running commercially available arcade roms) is still a bit of work in progress. The PS2 itself works very well and the arcade ports appear to be the actual roms in most cases. The control panel is powered by a bunch of minumus AVRs running the Kade software. They work very well, but we needed some kind of solution to mount them to the CP. So we modified a piece of wood L-moulding and added a USB port saver to make it easy to mount and remove the minimus.
To avoid killing the optical drive, and to avoid handling the discs, we were using a soft-modded PS2 that was using OPL to run the games off of a network drive. We've recently added a "modder" PC from TKW4rr10r to the cab and we've been testing using emulators for the PS1 and PS2 games to make the process of selecting and changing games more convenient. The PC is running GameEx, but I've been tinkering with Mala as well.