Need advice on converting original Ikari Warriors cab to MAMe

[Punchmaster72]

Hey Everyone,

So I have an original Ikari Warriors (complete, working perfectly, non-JAMMA) cabinet that I'd like to convert to MAME the best and most efficient way possible using an old Pentium 3 (800) PC that already has an older MAME version and complete working ROM set on it. From the research I've done so far, it seems like my best approach would be to use all existing wiring and connect it to an IPAC, then also purchase an ArcadeVGA to install in the PC. Does this sound correct? Also- I'm a bit confused at to which IPAC I should purchase (2, 4, etc.) as well as if I also need to rotary interface form Ultimarc as well? Any advice greatly appreciated....Thank you!!

[yotsuya]

So if it's complete and works perfectly, why not sell it/trade it for a non-working cab you could turn into a MAME cab?

[harveybirdman]

I would  research or ask Andy/Ultimarc directly what cabling you need to attach the ARCADE VGA to your specific monitor.  With the cabinet not being JAMMA, a JPAC is probably out so you'll need to know if you need the video amp PCB.

Also what are you doing with the Rotary Joys?  What kind of shape is the cabinet in? Artwork?  Consider selling the components or cabinet to finance your project, especially if this cabinet in particular becomes problematic for the application you want.

[Punchmaster72]

So if it's complete and works perfectly, why not sell it/trade it for a non-working cab you could turn into a MAME cab?

It's really a time/space efficiency thing. I love the game to death (as does my fiancé's 5-year old), so I don't want to hack it up where it's not easy to get back to it's authentic state if I want to sell at some point (which I highly doubt I ever would)....Just want to increase the functionality, and since Ikari as well as it's sequel (Victory Road) are on MAME, I thought it would be a kick to do this project. Another thought was to convert the cab to JAMMA with a harness so that it's set up for an easy JAMMA board swap as well and then go the JPAC route, but that seems less efficient overall and obviously a lot more work.

[yotsuya]

Well, I'd never advocate MAMEing a "complete, works perfectly" cab, but if you must, I would leave all the original parts installed, and maybe run a JAMMA harness and go with a JPAC. However, that wouldn't give you rotary functionality - you'd have to do more (buy a rotary board, etc).

Either way, this isn't going to be a simple "pop in a computer and you can play Ikari and Victory Road YAY!" type of project.

[opt2not]

 

Sell it as is, buy a cheap already converted cabinet to MAME. 

[mgb]

I've gotta agree with the others.
This would not be the best cab to Mame because it's working and its a great game.

In order to use existing cabling and monitor you would want to use a jpac and possibly an arcade vga or other solution for 15khz video.

You mention that you want the easiest way to do this but this cab is not well suited for easy.

Do you plan to keep existing controllers?
As mentioned, you won't have rotary function without adding a board and setting that up.

This game as is, is a vertical 19" screen.
Are you planning to play horizontal games on it?
Many vertical games are best played with 4way joysticks

Seems selling it and going with a different cab will be your easiest way.

What games are you looking to play most

[ABACABB]

I completely agree on selling it and getting yourself a proper MAME cabinet.  I had an Ikari Warriors cabinet back in the day.  I decided to get rid of it because it was a bit small for "grown men".  I added Ikaria Warriors to my MAME cabinet and what a disappointment.  The original Ikari Warrior joysticks that rotated made that game much more fun.  Playing that with an 8 way joystick is less than ideal.  Sell that cabinet with those joysticks to someone who will use it and appreciate them.

[pbj]

Gotta love this "Ikari Warriors is a crappy game, unload it on a sucker and get something else" advice.

 

Anyway, rip out the wiring, sell the board and controls, MAME that sucker up.

[yotsuya]

Gotta love this "Ikari Warriors is a crappy game, unload it on a sucker and get something else" advice.

 

Anyway, rip out the wiring, sell the board and controls, MAME that sucker up.

No one said it was a crappy game, Smoky.

[harveybirdman]

I don't know if I speak for everyone, but I certainly don't have any elitist outrage about mameing an Ikari cab....

It just doesn't sound like it's going to be as simple as the OP would like it to be.

Also, those LS-30's are getting pretty hard to find, if the OP didn't intend to use them it would be a shame for them to end up in a garage somewhere unused.

[Generic Eric]

Cabinet Information

The dedicated game housings were built by Dynamo, a third-party manufacturer that created the popular "cut-corner" cabinet. These enclosures became popular conversion cabinets for many later JAMMA games. Ikari Warriors was also released as a JAMMA conversion kit later on.

I think you should leave your cab the way it is.  Possibly even restore it. 

Take some measurements and clone it with some supplies from the lumberyard.  I think you'll find its more satisfying to have an authentic game.  Perhaps when you grow tired of it, you can trade it off for a new game.

I can't advocate stripping apart a working unit for MAME.

[yotsuya]

I don't know if I speak for everyone, but I certainly don't have any elitist outrage about mameing an Ikari cab....

It just doesn't sound like it's going to be as simple as the OP would like it to be.

Also, those LS-30's are getting pretty hard to find, if the OP didn't intend to use them it would be a shame for them to end up in a garage somewhere unused.

I think it would be more of a shame to rip them out of a "complete, working perfectly" cab.

You're right, it's not going to be a simple swap out of parts. So why ruin a perfectly good cab? 

[harveybirdman]

Sure it's a shame, if it were me and I was griffricher I'd slap in Caliber 50, Time Soldiers, and Heavy Barrel figure out how to switch between games

But $ , space, distance, and reality means this guy does with it what he pleases.  That and I didn't want pbj to be able to accuse us of being the cabinet police. 

[mgb]

I don't know if I speak for everyone, but I certainly don't have any elitist outrage about mameing an Ikari cab....

It just doesn't sound like it's going to be as simple as the OP would like it to be.

Also, those LS-30's are getting pretty hard to find, if the OP didn't intend to use them it would be a shame for them to end up in a garage somewhere unused.

That's exactly what I'm saying.
The op is looking for a simple conversion to mame.
This cabinet just doesn't fit the bill

[yotsuya]

Sure it's a shame, if it were me and I was griffricher I'd slap in Caliber 50, Time Soldiers, and Heavy Barrel figure out how to switch between games

But $ , space, distance, and reality means this guy does with it what he pleases.

 

Yeah, the guy can do whatever he wants. I'm all for MAME, but being in this hobby over the years, I've gained a greater appreciation for  working original machines and what it takes to keep them running.

That and I didn't want pbj to be able to accuse us of being the cabinet police. 

The trick is to get to the point where you don't take anything PBJ says seriously. He's gotta PBJ, after all.

[opt2not]

That's exactly what I'm saying.
The op is looking for a simple conversion to mame.
This cabinet just doesn't fit the bill

Yeah, that's mostly where I stand as well. This cabinet is not that easy to convert to mame.

But at the same time, I have the attitude that not every dedicated working cabinet should be mame'd. It's not being elitist, and I don't even think Ikari Warriors is that great of a game (I mean, it's cool mainly for the novelty of using a rotary joystick), but I'm coming from the standpoint that as time goes on, the number of working dedicated cabinets are being reduced more and more, due to people getting into this hobby, wanting every game under-the-sun put into their ONE cabinet, or flippers putting 60-in-1 boards, or mame'ing these complete cabinets looking to make $1000's.

Besides like I said, there are plenty of cabinets out there that are meant for conversions. Dynamo's are a prime example.

The trick is to get to the point where you don't take anything PBJ says seriously. He's gotta PBJ, after all.

I actually think PBJ has more real-talk on this forum than what most members post here, even if it comes from the dark and decrepit recesses of his mind.
Gotta respect a guy for calling it how it is though.

[yotsuya]

That's exactly what I'm saying.
The op is looking for a simple conversion to mame.
This cabinet just doesn't fit the bill

Yeah, that's mostly where I stand as well. This cabinet is not that easy to convert to mame.

But at the same time, I have the attitude that not every dedicated working cabinet should be mame'd. It's not being elitist, and I don't even think Ikari Warriors is that great of a game (I mean, it's cool mainly for the novelty of using a rotary joystick), but I'm coming from the standpoint that as time goes on, the number of working dedicated cabinets are being reduced more and more, due to people getting into this hobby, wanting every game under-the-sun put into their ONE cabinet, or flippers putting 60-in-1 boards, or mame'ing these complete cabinets looking to make $1000's.

Besides like I said, there are plenty of cabinets out there that are meant for conversions. Dynamo's are a prime example.

I played a LOT of Ikari Warriors with my cousins back in the 80s. It's a fun game meant to be played on those controllers. I don't think you're being elitist, either. You think playing Pac-Man on those controllers is going to be fun?

I actually think PBJ has more real-talk on this forum than what most members post here, even if it comes from the dark and decrepit recesses of his mind.
Gotta respect a guy for calling it how it is though.

I have a lot of respect for PBJ... but he's like that drunk uncle you have that swears he did stuff back in the day that you know wasn't possible ("did I ever tell you about that time me and Dennis Hopper did a pound of that loco weed on the roof of the White House? Or was that me and Willie Nelson...?). 

[Punchmaster72]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice, guys. So here's another thought, aka "plan B": What if I just converted it to a JAMMA harness so I could at least find a Victory Road PCB (which I believe is JAMMA-only, unlike the original Ikari Warriors), leaving all the wiring in the cab intact and just updating the connector. This would at least up the function factor a bit. Bad idea?

[Generic Eric]

What gives?  What did the the Ikari Warriors cab look like?  When I googled it, it looked like a vertically orientated Dynamo. 

 

[yotsuya]

Look over this thread.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133433.0.html

[Generic Eric]

Look over this thread.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133433.0.html

I like the way the art flows across from the generic, albeit angled, dynamo control panel up to the bezel.  The art is cool, but it could be just a conversion kit thrown in a flat black dynamo cab.

I'm just saying, lets not forget its a dynamo cab.

Thanks for all the feedback and advice, guys. So here's another thought, aka "plan B": What if I just converted it to a JAMMA harness so I could at least find a Victory Road PCB (which I believe is JAMMA-only, unlike the original Ikari Warriors), leaving all the wiring in the cab intact and just updating the connector. This would at least up the function factor a bit. Bad idea?

You are almost there:

Sure it's a shame, if it were me and I was griffricher I'd slap in Caliber 50, Time Soldiers, and Heavy Barrel figure out how to switch between games

Can you post a pic of your cab?  On a scale of 1 to 10 what would you say its condition is in?  Monitor burn in? 

Here is a list of rotary games from the wiki

[yotsuya]

Look over this thread.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133433.0.html

I like the way the art flows across from the generic, albeit angled, dynamo control panel up to the bezel.  The art is cool, but it could be just a conversion kit thrown in a flat black dynamo cab.

I'm just saying, lets not forget its a dynamo cab.

Too much camo. I was pointing it out more for how he squeezed multiple games in there. 

[Generic Eric]

Look over this thread.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133433.0.html

I like the way the art flows across from the generic, albeit angled, dynamo control panel up to the bezel.  The art is cool, but it could be just a conversion kit thrown in a flat black dynamo cab.

I'm just saying, lets not forget its a dynamo cab.

Too much camo. I was pointing it out more for how he squeezed multiple games in there. 

OIC

 

[pbj]

I had a Guerrilla War, I recall that it was dedicated or at least a good looking conversion.  Was damned glad to unload that thing working for $150 and I only had to drive 200 miles to do it.  In ~2004 when this hobby was a lot hotter.  (and if that sounds like a tall tale your drunk uncle would tell you, he sets his sites pretty low)

The value of this series of games has not increased in the slightest and I don't think the cabinet provides much additional challenge over another candidate. 

Rip that rotary junk out, drill up the panel for SF2, rotate the monitor, and wire up a new JAMMA harness.  And if BYOAC don't like it, they can pull their hands off the keyboard, stuff some cash in them, and start driving to pick up their precious, precious classic.


 

[harveybirdman]

I had a Guerrilla War, I recall that it was dedicated or at least a good looking conversion.  Was damned glad to unload that thing working for $150 and I only had to drive 200 miles to do it.  In ~2004 when this hobby was a lot hotter.  (and if that sounds like a tall tale your drunk uncle would tell you, he sets his sites pretty low)

The value of this series of games has not increased in the slightest and I don't think the cabinet provides much additional challenge over another candidate. 

Rip that rotary junk out, drill up the panel for SF2, rotate the monitor, and wire up a new JAMMA harness.  And if BYOAC don't like it, they can pull their hands off the keyboard, stuff some cash in them, and start driving to pick up their precious, precious classic.


 

EPIC

but send me the rotaries, I'll pay for shipping!

[yotsuya]

Yawn. Wake me when he gets new schtick.

[yotsuya]

I had a Guerrilla War, I recall that it was dedicated or at least a good looking conversion.  Was damned glad to unload that thing working for $150 and I only had to drive 200 miles to do it.  In ~2004 when this hobby was a lot hotter.  (and if that sounds like a tall tale your drunk uncle would tell you, he sets his sites pretty low)

The value of this series of games has not increased in the slightest and I don't think the cabinet provides much additional challenge over another candidate. 

Rip that rotary junk out, drill up the panel for SF2, rotate the monitor, and wire up a new JAMMA harness.  And if BYOAC don't like it, they can pull their hands off the keyboard, stuff some cash in them, and start driving to pick up their precious, precious classic.


 

He sounds like he wants to keep the rotaries, so yeah, there are challenges, Buffy.

[yotsuya]

Oh, and if he lived in AZ, I'd gladly give him an empty cab with monitor for it.

[harveybirdman]

Oh, and if he lived in AZ, I'd gladly give him an empty cab with monitor for it.

I'm pretty sure I can emulate a pbj response.... er uhm.....


"OH yeah here we are again with the 'If you only lived closer' argument for  sake  (insert inappropriate analogy about hookers and STD's)"

seems about right...

[yotsuya]

Needs more Mead and salty meat. But pretty good.

[pbj]

Shipping kills it.

[yotsuya]

The wife said no.

[harveybirdman]

The wife said no.

 

[Generic Eric]

Hope PM72 was a lurker.

[yotsuya]

Look, my friend, in a lot of ways, Jim is right. None of us are going to chain ourselves to the machine to prevent you from doing what you want to it. We're not going to offer you tons of cash to prevent it from being turned into a MAME cabinet. You do what you want to it. But I would encourage you to consider trying to preserve piece of Arcade history, especially since you say it works perfectly. If you picked up a gutted cab, or something that was not complete, I'd probably feel otherwise. But ultimately, I don't have to live with the cabinet, you do. So I hope you've listened to the feedback and gotten some ideas.

[pbj]

James, kthx

[yotsuya]

James, kthx

Look, my friend, in a lot of ways, The Artist Formerly Known as PinballJim is right.

[opt2not]

FWIW, pbj is a lot cheerier than PinballJim.

[bfauska]

People keep mentioning that this cab (with the rotary sticks) will add more complication to the MAMEification. If he wants to play Ikari Warriors, any cab is going to have the rotary complication. If the games he's most interested in playing have rotaries then he is closer than the rest of us from a hardware standpoint to making it work.

Also, I dig the idea of preserving dedicated cabs if they were built as dedicated cabs. Games that shipped in generic cabinets don't lose much inherent value (I don't know about financial but I mean real value) being pulled from their cab.

Anytime someone says they are looking at a flat-pack cabinet we say "no, no, build from scratch, you can handle it, it doesn't take much to learn how" but someone says "hey, can I convert this rotary stick game cabinet into a MAME system for rotary games?" and the response is "no, no, it's too complicated"?

I think if you're concerned about the preservation of the cab and it's art, leave as much of it intact as possible, use jamma or custom harnesses to reversibly make the wiring work to an encoder and video card and then fire it up as a MAME cabinet specializing in the games that work with the native controls. That's my plan with my magical spot (of course I don't have an original board in mine.)

[yotsuya]

It's funny, I'm probably the last person you'd want to ask about MAMEing a working Ikari Warriors. My cousins and I would walk to Circle K on the weekends after saving up our coins and spent a lot of time and money on that game. It's a great game with a unique control setup that you just can't get from MAME unless you use all the original parts as well as some specialty USB controllers.

PBJimbo likes to throw out that none of us probably went to arcades BITD. Well, I DID, many, many times, and a lot of these old games and old cabinets hold a lot of memories. Add to that the work I've done on actual machines over the past 5 years, and I've gained a new appreciation of them, especially when they just "work".

Carry on, I'm out of this one. 

[mgb]

People keep mentioning that this cab (with the rotary sticks) will add more complication to the MAMEification. If he wants to play Ikari Warriors, any cab is going to have the rotary complication. If the games he's most interested in playing have rotaries then he is closer than the rest of us from a hardware standpoint to making it work.

Also, I dig the idea of preserving dedicated cabs if they were built as dedicated cabs. Games that shipped in generic cabinets don't lose much inherent value (I don't know about financial but I mean real value) being pulled from their cab.

Anytime someone says they are looking at a flat-pack cabinet we say "no, no, build from scratch, you can handle it, it doesn't take much to learn how" but someone says "hey, can I convert this rotary stick game cabinet into a MAME system for rotary games?" and the response is "no, no, it's too complicated"?

I think if you're concerned about the preservation of the cab and it's art, leave as much of it intact as possible, use jamma or custom harnesses to reversibly make the wiring work to an encoder and video card and then fire it up as a MAME cabinet specializing in the games that work with the native controls. That's my plan with my magical spot (of course I don't have an original board in mine.)

But he simply put that he wants the eastiest way to mame it.
He hasn't stated what he's looking to play on it. This cab is not well suited to a simple play all me cab

[bfauska]

He hasn't stated what he's looking to play on it. This cab is not well suited to a simple play all me cab

I love the game to death (as does my fiancé's 5-year old), so I don't want to hack it up where it's not easy to get back to it's authentic state if I want to sell at some point (which I highly doubt I ever would)....Just want to increase the functionality, and since Ikari as well as it's sequel (Victory Road) are on MAME, I thought it would be a kick to do this project. Another thought was to convert the cab to JAMMA with a harness so that it's set up for an easy JAMMA board swap as well and then go the JPAC route, but that seems less efficient overall and obviously a lot more work.

That part made me think he was planning on playing Ikari on his MAME cab, which would certainly benifit from the complexity of dealing with rotaries in his build which the Ikari cab already has.

[PL1]

Here is a list of rotary games from the wiki

That's the old wiki. 

New and updated wiki rotary game list is here.


Scott

[pbj]

How about we let the owner chime in before we continue dissecting his motivations and penance for his crimes.

[Punchmaster72]

How about we let the owner chime in before we continue dissecting his motivations and penance for his crimes.

Ha ha...Thanks for that.

So, I didn't get a chance to snap a pic of the cab last night but I'll do it soon. And yeah, to clarify a bit: I'm really just looking to be able to play the entire library of vertical rotary-controlled SNK titles in my Ikari. Don't want to hack the machine up, remove the sticks (especially not after taking them apart, cleaning, and re-building them!). Once again, just want to up the variety/functionality factor a bit because I know my fiancé's son would go ape-s**t over the other rotary games. So, back to the point....Is there really any harm to switching the connector to JAMMA? That would open me up to both SNK JAMMA PCBs like Victory Road and Guerrilla War as well as the JPAC option for MAME without really doing anything un-reversable to the dedicated cab, right?

[Generic Eric]

How about we let the owner chime in before we continue dissecting his motivations and penance for his crimes.

Ha ha...Thanks for that.

So, I didn't get a chance to snap a pic of the cab last night but I'll do it soon. And yeah, to clarify a bit: I'm really just looking to be able to play the entire library of vertical rotary-controlled SNK titles in my Ikari. Don't want to hack the machine up, remove the sticks (especially not after taking them apart, cleaning, and re-building them!). Once again, just want to up the variety/functionality factor a bit because I know my fiancé's son would go ape-s**t over the other rotary games. So, back to the point....Is there really any harm to switching the connector to JAMMA? That would open me up to both SNK JAMMA PCBs like Victory Road and Guerrilla War as well as the JPAC option for MAME without really doing anything un-reversable to the dedicated cab, right?

Others will answer you question here better.  You may be surprised to know when other have wanted to increase functionality, we've been shown plans of 3 trackballs, 4 players with 8 buttons.  Anyway. 

Search the googles for how to wire a cabinet for jamma.  or ikari warriors to jamma.  Some of the advice you may find is that it may simpler, if not easier to source a jamma version of that game, otherwise you need to have an ikari to jamma specific harness in between your PCB and your jamma wired cab. 

Best of luck.

[mgb]

How about we let the owner chime in before we continue dissecting his motivations and penance for his crimes.

Ha ha...Thanks for that.

So, I didn't get a chance to snap a pic of the cab last night but I'll do it soon. And yeah, to clarify a bit: I'm really just looking to be able to play the entire library of vertical rotary-controlled SNK titles in my Ikari. Don't want to hack the machine up, remove the sticks (especially not after taking them apart, cleaning, and re-building them!). Once again, just want to up the variety/functionality factor a bit because I know my fiancé's son would go ape-s**t over the other rotary games. So, back to the point....Is there really any harm to switching the connector to JAMMA? That would open me up to both SNK JAMMA PCBs like Victory Road and Guerrilla War as well as the JPAC option for MAME without really doing anything un-reversable to the dedicated cab, right?

well now that makes sense.

its just that sometimes you get people on here with a particular machine looking for the quick way to play 5000+ games with the setup.

what you want to do makes perfect sense.

off the top of my head I'd say either rewire the cp with a jamma harness or possibly better would be to find or make a ikari to jamma adapter, this way there's no problem with converting it back quickly if the need arises.
check out jammaboards.com if you need the supplies to do this.

you can then install the jpac and a rotary encoder, both available at Ultimarc

you will also have to take care of the video output for 15khz either by using an arcadevga or other with appropriate software.