XP or Windows 7

[Paradise]

Just saw that there is now a Windows 7 driver.
I have a Core2Duo machine left now and the question is:
Are there benefits or draw backs on using Windows 7 instead of XP?

And i know the driver is called Windows 7 but does it work in Windows 8?
I have some old machines where i use Win7 drivers in Win8 without problems...

[haynor666]

For Core2Duo it's better stick to Windows XP x64. From my experience mame performance in both systems is almost the same but you need less memory for operating system. Also in windows 7 all interlaced resolutions are visible in system with half of the original refresh rate ie. instead 60 Hz you have 30 Hz. This will be problem with Taito Type X games and probably other software that rely on 60 Hz modes.

[Paradise]

That was my workstation until two days ago and has 8GB RAM and was rock stable since the release of Win8.
So the drawback is the refresh rate?
Just to make sure > i connect it to a Loewe or Grundig RGB TV

Thats the nice thing about Germany: 2 Loewe and 5 Grundig TVs (analog and pots) - some for ~10$ and some for nothing

[bulbousbeard]

Keep in mind that if you also want to run newer PC arcade games on your cabinet that Windows 7 might have better compatibility. There are new games being made all the time.

[Paradise]

Newer PC arcade games? Standalone games? And if they are new i guess they are build without scanlines and 15Khz in mind?
This one is just for Mame...

And the question is not against Win7 - it's the other way round.
I prefer Win7 over XP and Win8 over Win7.
So i would be more then happy if there are no drawbacks with Win7.
And i would be even happier if i could use Win8

[Sledge]

I definitely prefer win7 over XP for my machine..
You CAN also use win8, but you have to enable test mode on every boot, so that makes it a real PITA (un usable really)
the refresh rate issue isn't really an issue as there's a work around.

[Paradise]

Why test mode?

[Calamity]

Why test mode?

W7 & W8 require all device drivers to be signed by a trusted authority. Because CRT Emudriver is modded drivers, the signature from AMD is lost and I have to sign it myself, but I'm just a guy not a trusted authority. W7 allows drivers signed this way only if you enable a special mode called "test signing" that is meant for driver developers to test their things. W8 has made this practice even harder by requiring you to enable this test mode manually per session, making it unusable for us.

If you want a desktop system, the preference order is (leaving Linux apart):

Windows 8.1 > Windows 7 > Windows XP

If you want an emulation system, it is:

Windows XP > Windows 7 > Windows 8.1

If you only use GroovyMAME, then XP > 7 is questionable today because all fundamental issues introduced by 7 have been overcome by current builds of GroovyMAME. And W7 means real advantages in terms of hardware compatibility, with many modern mothercards not being supported by XP.

If you plan to use other emulators as well then you'll find XP more suitable. W7 introduced monitor hot plug detection that means lots of problems with arcade monitors which often are not detected. This requires adding resistors to your RGB cable to force detection. Eventhough, in W7 interlaced modes are still reported with a halved refresh, which means that D3D based emulators that attempt to vsync will run at half speed. Probably not a problem if you use a tri-sync monitor though. The fun is that running emulators other than MAME was the reason that most users employed for moving to W7 (DX11 support).

[Paradise]

Does driver signature on graphic cards not work like other drivers? I mean normally you disable driver signature enforcement and install the driver and thats it...

Adding resistors to my Scart cable is what i already do - i mean i need to build the whole cable.

So for Mame XP is still best? So still no Haswell hardware

[Calamity]

Does driver signature on graphic cards not work like other drivers? I mean normally you disable driver signature enforcement and install the driver and thats it...

That's true for 7, not for 8.

So for Mame XP is still best? So still no Haswell hardware

I said more or less the opposite. Please read my post again.

[haynor666]

Series 8 (H81 B85 Z87) have still support for windows. Driver version 9.4.0.1027 is the last one that has files for XP, it can even install USB30 ports in USB20 comp. mode. But you won't get drivers for USB30 native mode (sadly USB 3.0 is available from 7 and later). Also HD graphics on haswell processors does not have drivers for XP (not a problem if you plan to use Radeon).

Right now I'm on Asus H81M-E with overclocked G3258 and Asus Radeon 4350 and XP x64 works great.

EDIT. I forgot AHCI. In XP you have to switch to IDE mode because Intel does not support AHCI series 8 on XP.

[Paradise]

That's true for 7, not for 8.

It's what i did in 8. For example Arduino had no signed drivers. And all i did was disable driver signature enforcement just
for the installation and then it works.

I said more or less the opposite. Please read my post again.

Sorry, i think my English is ok but maybe Germans think the other way around (like with dates that Americans write backwards )

Emulation system - for me Windows XP > Windows 7 > Windows 8.1 means:
First place XP - Gold
Second place Win7 - Silver
Third place Win8 - Bronze

And a system for just Mame is an emulation system - right?
Sorry if i'm a little confused.

Series 8 (H81 B85 Z87) have still support for windows.

Sure say do. I have four series 8 boards and they all run windows
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I know you mean XP
Hm, last time i checked the driver state in conjunction with XP (a year ago) there was something that did not fit - but i can't remember what it was.

[Calamity]

Sorry, i think my English is ok but maybe Germans think the other way around (like with dates that Americans write backwards )

Emulation system - for me Windows XP > Windows 7 > Windows 8.1 means:
First place XP - Gold
Second place Win7 - Silver
Third place Win8 - Bronze

And a system for just Mame is an emulation system - right?
Sorry if i'm a little confused.

For some reason you keep missing the second half of my post, where I say that a system for GroovyMAME alone is the exception to the XP > W7 rule. 

[Paradise]

Ok, after reading it now four times i got it.

Just Mame then Win8.
If other emulators then XP.

Ok now i can make a fresh installation. My fifth in 3 days cause i switched boards around

But still i don't get what the driver problem is?

[Calamity]

I give up mate.

[Paradise]

Me first: So for Mame XP is still best?
You: I said more or less the opposite.

Me now: For Mame then Win8 (thats the opposite to what i wrote above)
And you give up?

[Sledge]

W8 has made this practice even harder by requiring you to enable this test mode manually per session, making it unusable for us.

Forget Win8

If you want an emulation system, it is:

Windows XP > Windows 7 > Windows 8.1

If you only use GroovyMAME, then XP > 7 is questionable today because all fundamental issues introduced by 7 have been overcome by current builds of GroovyMAME. And W7 means real advantages in terms of hardware compatibility, with many modern mothercards not being supported by XP.

If you plan to use other emulators as well then you'll find XP more suitable. W7 introduced monitor hot plug detection that means lots of problems with arcade monitors which often are not detected. This requires adding resistors to your RGB cable to force detection. Eventhough, in W7 interlaced modes are still reported with a halved refresh, which means that D3D based emulators that attempt to vsync will run at half speed. Probably not a problem if you use a tri-sync monitor though. The fun is that running emulators other than MAME was the reason that most users employed for moving to W7 (DX11 support).

If you want other emu's other than Groovymame, then choose XP.
If your system is GM only, then go for Win7

[haynor666]

Stick to XP x64. Please remember that MAME uses directinput for joysticks and directinput is reported to be laggy in windows 7. Generally XP is less troubling system than 7. Hovewer in future we all be forced to use windows 7 because XP does not have support for newer hardware. Also modern emulators like Dolphin or DEmul may require DX11 to work correctly. Sometimes emulator is designed to run from windows 7 and it will start in Vista and older systems for example mGBA.

[Paradise]

Again: All you have to do is disable driver signature enforcement - install the driver and done. I did it more then once with other drivers.
I don't understand where the problem is.

[Calamity]

Again: All you have to do is disable driver signature enforcement - install the driver and done. I did it more then once with other drivers.
I don't understand where the problem is.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138903.msg1472882.html#msg1472882
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138903.msg1474399.html#msg1474399

I've always assumed that TESTSIGNING can't be enabled permanently in W8. However this link suggests the opposite:
http://thephuck.com/end-user-computing/how-to-disable-driver-signing-requirement-in-windows-8/

So maybe I'm wrong and we can use Windows 8 after all.

[Paradise]

I've always assumed that TESTSIGNING can't be enabled permanently in W8. However this link suggests the opposite:
http://thephuck.com/end-user-computing/how-to-disable-driver-signing-requirement-in-windows-8/
So maybe I'm wrong and we can use Windows 8 after all.

So nobody did it this way yet? It's the only way i know.
Your link is what i'm talking about.
Here is another one: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/disabling-driver-signature-on-windows-8

That is what i always did to install a driver and then it works.
That is way i was asking if there is something special about graphics drivers.

[Calamity]

Ok so I tried installing CRT Emudriver in W8 and it works! You were right and I was wrong. You don't even need to mess with TESTSIGNING manually, the custom installer I did for W7 already does the job just fine. Just ignore the MSVCRT errors and the request to restart (important) so the installer can reach the end of the process and enable TESTSIGNING.

There is a problem however. DirectDraw in W8 is super slow, not usable. DirectDraw is required for interlaced modes (they run at 50% in Direct3D), but in W8 DirectDraw is even slower than D3D. So we're stuck with this by now. You can still get games run at 100% with interlaced modes if you enable -frame_delay but at the cost of static tearing.

So because of the above Windows 7 is still the option if you're only using GroovyMAME. Eventually the issues with Windows 8 will get fixed, hopefully.

Sorry but before I wasn't in my best mood, my Polostar just died this morning when I switched it on 

[Paradise]

Ok, so finally after driving you crazy with my question you learned something from me

Hm, they changed DirectDraw from W7 to W8

[Calamity]

I believe DDraw is totally emulated by D3D starting from W7 (probably Vista). But DDraw works worse in W8 than W7, that's a fact.

[Paradroid]

Sorry but before I wasn't in my best mood, my Polostar just died this morning when I switched it on 

This is not good! Quick, point me to the donation page! I'll help you out with the repair bill...

[Paradroid]

Sorry but before I wasn't in my best mood, my Polostar just died this morning when I switched it on 

This is not good! Quick, point me to the donation page! I'll help you out with the repair bill...

No need. Found it.

Put that $50 towards getting your Polo humming again.

Merry Christmas and thanks for all that you do for us!

[adder]

Calamity if you need help to determine what has gone wrong with your monitor, please say so to continue...

[Calamity]

Put that $50 towards getting your Polo humming again.

Thanks a lot mate! I really appreciate this.

I'm decided to get this monitor repaired. This is the monitor I have sitting on my desk and I use it for all my tests so as you can imagine it has had a hard life. It was a NOS unit I bought a couple of years ago. Many users in Spain bought one these monitors and they've been failing massively from the E-W board. I hoped mine would be an exception. It wasn't. These things must have been stored somewhere for years and probably their capacitors were dry. Hopefully I can get it repaired by some local service.

Thanks and merry christmas!