Your standard newbie help! thread

[zaltec]

Hi folks, old time MAME fan, first time builder here… I’ve spent the past few weeks browsing through the forums, reading up on various builds etc, but still have a few questions I was hoping for some insight/opinions on. I’m an IT guy by trade who also does some very amateur (and slow, due to lack of a shop/garage) woodworking (storage shelves, step stools, pool/patio storage boxes, a giant “stripper” cake), and I haven’t used a router yet, but I’m used to rough’ing it with a circular saw, jigsaw, drills, rotary tool and pocket holes (but a router is on order).

My biggest issue right now is that I’m a researcher/perfectionist/procrastinator(?), and my basic 2P conversion idea that I’d originally had 8’ish years ago (until my friend who “had” a cab for me, did in fact, not) has now been renewed and blossomed into ideas of automatically rotating screens, LED screen marquee’s, compact LCD control displays, automatically illuminated buttons, virtual pinball cabs, … and I have to stop, and actually start working on something at least semi-basic (I’m still considering the rotating screen and LED marquee).

Overview:
I’m going to be building a 4P upright (LED display) for the family, however due to physical size constraints in the area where it will go, I’d like to keep the CP as slim and clutter-free as possible. Unfortunately with such a varied group (I grew up in arcades and love most games but especially the 4P actions, wife loves fighters/pinball, young kids will like whatever kids decide they like at any given time), I will need some variety, but I’m trying to keep it simple(ish) for my first build. I’ve currently got Mame and Hyperspin mostly configured (nothing too advanced yet), and am going to be building a test CP first to test different button/switch types, layouts, etc.

Control Panel:
Right now I’m currently looking at a fairly standard setup of 4 joysticks with 7 buttons for P1/2, and 4 for P3/4, a trackball (RGB) and spinner. The wife loves the look of the RGB buttons (she saw some LEDBlinky demo’s), so all buttons will be lit.

Hardware – I’m currently open to joystick options (as long as they’re ball-top - the wife), I’ve been looking at the Omni2, J-Stik, Sanwa and Seimitsu, I’ll probably just test out a couple and make sure I get at least one 4/8way to eliminate the dedicated 4way stick. For buttons I’m looking at the EI2’s from GGG (concave! – the wife), probably with cheaper switches for the 3/4P’s and will test upgraded switches for 1/2P. Likewise, I’ll test out both RGB options from GGG and see which we like better.

Encoder – With 4 Joy’s, 7+7+4+4 player buttons, 4 start, 4 coins, and 3 admins, I’m looking at minimum 49 inputs and 33+trackball RGB items (x3 outputs, right?). Even the 4P+LED controllers don’t seem to support all of this in one unit, so I suppose I’m looking at multiple units, and that’s where I get confused as to what would be best. I also think I could reduce the number of buttons by taking advantage of the shift feature, but likewise am unsure of what’s unnecessary. Locally I have the I-Pac 2/4/Ultimate and the Wolfware Howler available (I’m located in Toronto, Ontario), but I’m open to ordering (GGG or Ultimarc at least) from afar, plus whatever any other online Canadian retailers or amazon/ebay have available.

Wiring – With the RGB’s I’m sure this part will be more complicated, and I’ve read through the resources I’ve found here and elsewhere, but if you have any specific tips/products (wiring harnesses, buttons, button/rgb-A + LED-encoder-B,etc) for the above encoders, please let me know! I also happen to have a boatload of CAT5 cable (I’m an IT guy), if that makes wiring any cheaper or easier.

Cabinet:
Wood – I would prefer to build from 5/8” MDF, however the t-molding options seem limited to black, black, or black. If I want a bit of colour, am I stuck with 3/4”?

If you have any general tips or threads in particular you think would be of interest to someone building a slim LED upright 4P cab, especially tips on how to keep the CP compact but playable, I’d be glad to hear them.

I think that’s about all for now. I’d like to start working on a model soon, then make the test CP (or two or three) and get going on my build

Thanks.

[mgb]

Hello and welcome,
   Just a few quick thoughts.
Plan well but plan for what's important to you. A lot of people come around here with big plans to do this, that and the other thing and when asked why, they're kinda like ....well its what so and so did. Do what suits you best but be careful that big plans don't prevent you from having a working arcade machine.

There are many good balltops. What are your plans for handling 4 way games, will you have one switching joystick?
I use modified Sanwa JLWs.  They're a sturdy well built stick but no switchable stick is 100% perfect at both 4 & 8 way

Couple of other quick tips:
  Try to stay away from using cat5 for your control wiring. Crimp connectors are not meant for solid core wire.

Do you want neat, real arcade like wiring at a low price?
Buy an economy jamma harness like they sell at jammaboards.com, cut off the jamma board connector end and use that cable. Its already neatly terminated with quick connects of the correct size and the whole harness is around $10.

Do you want a nice finish?
Laminate it. Hands down better than paint any day. Just make sure to allow for its thickness properly when choosing your wood and t molding thickness.

Rgb buttons are a great way to go. I use electric ice2 buttons from Groovy Game Gear. The creamy white finish when not lit, really goes with my design and they light up real well. Rgb buttons don't make the wiring all that much more complicated.

Just a quick note on the 4 player thing. If you feel you will have 4 playerss at a time, that's cool but keep in mind, you don't have to have a 4 player panel in order to play games like Gauntlet, Simpsons or TMNT as there are modified 2 player mame versions where you can still pick your player.
Another important note on 4 player panels is to make sure your player 3 & 4 sticks are oriented correctly to the screen, not angled.

Good luck and keep us posted on how your planning and building come along.

[PL1]

Another important note on 4 player panels is to make sure your player 3 & 4 sticks are oriented correctly to the screen, not angled.

There are more details here in the FAQ.

TL;DR version: Green is good.  Red is bad.




Scott

[dkersten]

The ipac ultimate would work for the buttons and joysticks (supports 4 joysticks, 8 buttons per player for 1 and 2, 4 buttons for 3 and 4, 4 admin buttons, and 4 start and 4 credit buttons).  HOWEVER, you couldn't also use it for the spinner and trackball at the same time.  You would have to either use the mini usb adapters for each or get an optipac for those devices.  I managed to do what you are asking with an ipac ultimate, but 2 of my joysticks were U360's which freed up 8 inputs.  I had one input left over.

If going with the IpacUIO, stick with Ultimarc's RGB LED's.  They are a little more expensive, but the GGG RGB's aren't easily compatible.  If you want to run GGG's electric ice 2 buttons, go with their controllers (although you have to buy more to make that many work).  If you are hell bent on saving money and want to use the Ipac UIO, look for LED's that are rated to handle 20ma of current constantly, and you will need some "DuPont" style 2.54mm connectors and crimps and a crimper tool (and some patience). 

[AzureKnight]

Planning is important but I will also recommend getting a few tools:

A pair of real wire strippers (these are found at Lowes):
http://www.southwiretools.com/tools/tools/SA822

A ratchet crimping tool:
http://www.toolaid.com/content/professional-ratcheting-terminal-crimper

Previously I did my work with a cheap all in one electrical tool that cuts/strips/crimps.  I cannot stress enough how much these two tools cut my wiring time by probably 75% and the end work is so much better.

[zaltec]

Thanks for the input, folks!

I picked up a couple of joysticks and some basic buttons for my test CP over the weekend, as well as a router. Slowly assembling what I'll need to get going here shortly.

mgb: I'll be using at least one 4/8 way, I've currently got two of the illuminated balltop 4/8way sanwa-type sticks for testing, I'll probably end up with 4 RGB J-Stiks or something... we'll see. Thanks for the suggestions about the other stuff also.

PL1: Thanks, seen that often enough to know that one

dkersten: I belatedly realized that I've creeped your Time Machine build many times, and it's similar enough to what I had envisioned ("slim profile LED screen 4P" with same RGB control layout seems rare) that I'd noted the thread and saved some pictures I was also planning on trying the UIO with the GGG EI2's, however it seems like you had a heck of a time with them, so I'll take your advise and go with the Ultimarc RGB's. You also complained about the quality of the wiring harness;any other suggestions there? Is it easier to deal with it, or would I be better off with a Jamma harness or new/scratch wiring? Any other tips, "lessons learned", or regrets for someone building a very similar cab to yours?

I'll likely be using USB trackball and spinner, so that's fine for the UIO. I'll probably be over on outputs at least anyway, even if I trim a few buttons, so I may need to add another controller to the final build anyway.

AzureKnight: Thanks for the reminder on additional tools... I'll have to dig out my electrical/wiring tools from wherever they've been buried, and see if they'll work (well)... if not, off to Lowes!

[dkersten]

The harness I had complained about was a quality control issue, and only affected the simple "daisy chain" ground harness that was supplied with the UIO.  The last 2 I ordered were far higher quality, although it does seem to be a little hit and miss, I had a few connectors on the last main harness that were crimped well on one part of the connector, but not on the other.  Overall though, I have been happy with the quality of Ultimarc's products.  You just want to make sure to double check the crimps during assembly to make sure they are all done well.  Only takes a second to fix if you find a bad one.. Not checking can lead to pulling your hair out trying to find why something isn't working.

[ChanceKJ]

I really tend to disagree on the "When are you going to have 4 people at a time" argument. Seriously, my build isn't done yet and I've had a full house on it more often then when I feel the need to boot it up and play a game of DK or solo run Simpsons.

I see and hear a lot of similar (oddly haunting) things in this thread compared to what was going through my mind a year ago when I started Flynn's.


...oh! And you're from the GTA too. cool beans.

[mgb]

I really tend to disagree on the "When are you going to have 4 people at a time" argument. Seriously, my build isn't done yet and I've had a full house on it more often then when I feel the need to boot it up and play a game of DK or solo run Simpsons.

I see and hear a lot of similar (oddly haunting) things in this thread compared to what was going through my mind a year ago when I started Flynn's.


...oh! And you're from the GTA too. cool beans.

That's cool. Like I said, if you're truly planning on having 4 players then more power to you.
I only mentioned the two player version because I've seen it come up before where someone thought they had to have 4 player controls for certain games.

[zaltec]

Update: received my Ultimarc buttons, waiting on my GGG buttons, Playdium was closed when I wanted to buy UIO controller.

Received:
Fixed/Plunge Router
1-1/8 Fostner bit
Straight router bit
Ratcheting Crimper
Ultimarc RGB sample buttons

Waiting for:
Flush Cut router bit
Respirator mask
Wire stripper
GGG buttons
Ipac Ultimate I/O Controller

Flynn's Arcade and Time Machine are currently major references to my build... the wife would like to use our current 42" LED TV as a display... I'd like to go smaller (27" IPS)  but we'll see. With the wide 4P control panel, it may end up being an efficient option.

[jennifer]

     A GIANT stripper cake .... Well hello friend,   (Jennifer does her slow Dance, Dance, Pout, Giggle.)

[ChanceKJ]

Flynn's Arcade and Time Machine are currently major references to my build... the wife would like to use our current 42" LED TV as a display... I'd like to go smaller (27" IPS)  but we'll see. With the wide 4P control panel, it may end up being an efficient option.

Cool beans, if you have any questions about the build just post them in the Flynn's thread.

[zaltec]

     A GIANT stripper cake .... Well hello friend,   (Jennifer does her slow Dance, Dance, Pout, Giggle.)

Well, it wasn't "giant" sized, but it was "three zombie burlesque dancer" (not the folks pictured with it, unfortunately didn't get a good pic of the dancers themselves) sized... was for the Toronto Zombie Walk's 10th "birthday" a couple years ago