Please help, my joystick makes a loud CLACK sound/feeling, is it normal?

[LightningBolt]

New topic:
So I got my Ms Pac-Man Happ reunion joystick today and a problem with it has been bugging me all day. Whenever I move it in one particular direction (it gradually changes, I think as the spring inside spins) it makes and feels like a loud CLACK, like something is passing over something. It makes playing with the joystick very rough feeling. I looked inside the base and it appears what's making the noise/feeling is that there is a circular base inside the square box that the spring sits on top of. The part of the spring, the rung closest to the top of that circular base keeps crossing over the base as I move the joystick.

In this video you can hear it pretty clearly (it's not the microswitch triggering either)





Is this normal behavior for the Super/pacman joystick?
Please let me know what you think.


Original topic:
Why on earth does Happ sell the Pac-Man reunion joystick with plate for $60 more
..than the regular plateless version?

http://na.suzohapp.com/all_catalogs/joysticks/50-6084-112

They are literally the same joystick with all the same parts (aside from a plate) right?

Under the replacement parts section it even lists the plate:

95-1551-00   ADAPTER PLATE FOR ORIGINAL PACMAN F/SUPER JOYSTICK   $5.70


Actually, just saw this:

Round 1-3/8" red knob offers same feel as the original
and in the parts:

50-2921-00   BALL KNOB RED 1-3/8" WITH 5/16"-18x1/2" THREAD DP.THRMOP   $13.30


Can anyone confirm that this version has a 1-3/8" ball?

[RandyT]

The standard stick uses 1-pc shaft, where the ball is molded on.  Based on the parts list, the complete unit does not.  To me, this indicates the the unit requires assembly, including attaching it to the plate,  so the additional costs are probably related to special parts, labor and administrative.

If you just want a standard stick, buy the standard unit (I'd go with a Pac-Pro, personally ) along with the mounting plate / nuts and put it together yourself.  Assuming the plate is compatible, which is a bit of an unknown at this point.

*edit*  sorry, I mis-read.  The standard stick has a 1 1/4" molded-on ball.

[Generic Eric]

If you order the adapter plate I bet you get the metal mounting plate, not the joystick base.

[LightningBolt]

The standard stick uses 1-pc shaft, where the ball is molded on.  Based on the parts list, the complete unit does not.  To me, this indicates the the unit requires assembly, including attaching it to the plate,  so the additional costs are probably related to special parts, labor and administrative.

If you just want a standard stick, buy the standard unit (I'd go with a Pac-Pro, personally ) along with the mounting plate / nuts and put it together yourself.  Assuming the plate is compatible, which is a bit of an unknown at this point.

The standard stick does have a 1 3/8" molded-on ball.

The one on my standard reunion stick is less than 1.25"..should I order that one from Happ if I want a bigger ball?

[chopperthedog]

Reunion stick blows dog farts. Original midway pac leaf joy or bust.


good day.

[Hoopz]

Its hard to see in the video but you either need to take the e clip off and move it down a slot (farther away from the end) or flip over the actuator.  I'm on vacation and can't access my reunion stick to check, but it's not put together.  That's causing the noise/issue.  The actuator is the white part that physically connects with the switches when you move the joystick.  The e clip holds the shaft in place and the shaft has a couple of slots cut in it where the e clip can go. 

[LightningBolt]

Its hard to see in the video but you either need to take the e clip off and move it down a slot (farther away from the end) or flip over the actuator.  I'm on vacation and can't access my reunion stick to check, but it's not put together.  That's causing the noise/issue.  The actuator is the white part that physically connects with the switches when you move the joystick.  The e clip holds the shaft in place and the shaft has a couple of slots cut in it where the e clip can go.

Thanks but this shaft only has one bottom of the shaft slot for the e-clip
The actuator didn't change it, from what I can tell it's definitely the spring popping over the inner cylinder.

[Hoopz]

I wont argue but did you try pushing the actuator down to see if there's another slot for the e clip?  Or disassemble it all together to check?

I can check mine tomorrow but someone else may be able to help before that.   

[LightningBolt]

I wont argue but did you try pushing the actuator down to see if there's another slot for the e clip?  Or disassemble it all together to check?

I can check mine tomorrow but someone else may be able to help before that.   

Yup. I think it may be because this was only designed for metal cabinets vs the super which has two slots.

Thanks tho

[eds1275]

I will forgive the blair witch style video, but only because it's so close to halloween.

[RandyT]

The one on my standard reunion stick is less than 1.25"..should I order that one from Happ if I want a bigger ball?

Yes, apologies.  That is the correct size of the ball on the standard unit.  I remember the original being quite small, so I'm wondering if the 1 1/4" size is proper. 

If what you describe is the issue, and you don't think it is something which will go away once you start using it (it probably will), then you can try beveling the outer edge of that ridge with a little sandpaper, and applying some silicone lube to it afterward.  But I'd install it and put some time into using it first to see what happens. 

[big10p]

I recently had a similar problem with a new joystick, though a different type to your one. I solved it by turning the spring round/upside-down.

[LightningBolt]

The one on my standard reunion stick is less than 1.25"..should I order that one from Happ if I want a bigger ball?

Yes, apologies.  That is the correct size of the ball on the standard unit.  I remember the original being quite small, so I'm wondering if the 1 1/4" size is proper. 

If what you describe is the issue, and you don't think it is something which will go away once you start using it (it probably will), then you can try beveling the outer edge of that ridge with a little sandpaper, and applying some silicone lube to it afterward.  But I'd install it and put some time into using it first to see what happens.

Thanks for the advice, that sounds reasonable. I'm just wondering if people usually notice this at first?

[LightningBolt]

I guess I was wrong. The black cone part that drops in at the top is causing the clacking. I switched the white cone with the black cone as a test and it fixed the problem. Is the black one actually the actuator??

[Hoopz]

Can you post pics of them both?

Twisted Quarter shows a black actuator.  Happ Controls is black and white so that's no help. 

If it's hitting smoothly and engaging all the switches, then you have it put together correctly. 

[RandyT]

I guess I was wrong. The black cone part that drops in at the top is causing the clacking. I switched the white cone with the black cone as a test and it fixed the problem. Is the black one actually the actuator??

HAPP normally puts the white one at the bottom, but it probably doesn't make a lot of difference.  The only thing I can surmise from the difference is the materials.  The white part is likely to be nylon, which probably offers some lubricity that the black part doesn't.  This indicates to me that adding some thick, silicone based lube to the upper socket area will allow it to move more freely, and prevent it from "snapping" into place when moved.

Not sure where yours was purchased, but I'll start adding some to the units we ship, just in case.

[RandyT]

Update:  Just tested a little lube under that black part, and it solves the issue described.

[LightningBolt]

Update:  Just tested a little lube under that black part, and it solves the issue described.

Thanks Randy, at least I know I'm not crazy now. I bought mine on eBay, everything else about it feels nice so I'm assuming it's legit.

[LightningBolt]

Regarding the original topic about the more expensive original replacement Pac-Man joystick, I got confirmation from Happ that for the ball:
"The diameter is 1.356”, and it is removable."

This begs the question, WHY did the reunion version come with a smaller ball?

The part is:

50-2921-00   BALL KNOB RED 1-3/8" WITH 5/16"-18x1/2" THREAD DP.THRMOP

I'm a sucker for "official" items so I was thinking about getting this one, and getting a few different color ball tops from Tornado Terry since his site lists them as 5/16TH 18 THREAD

They should work or no?

[RandyT]

This begs the question, WHY did the reunion version come with a smaller ball?

Because it's a Reunion stick.  The Reunion arcade machine also ran Galaga, and a quick measurement of the stick on my original Galaxian machine shows the ball to be about 1.22".  I assume that Galaga was the same, so that's where the ball size likely came from.  Then again, it's been awhile since I have seen a real Ms. Pac.  Is the ball 1 1/4" on those as well?

[LightningBolt]

This begs the question, WHY did the reunion version come with a smaller ball?

Because it's a Reunion stick.  The Reunion arcade machine also ran Galaga, and a quick measurement of the stick on my original Galaxian machine shows the ball to be about 1.22".  I assume that Galaga was the same, so that's where the ball size likely came from.  Then again, it's been awhile since I have seen a real Ms. Pac.  Is the ball 1 1/4" on those as well?

Interesting!

From this thread:
http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php?topic=2007.0

someone wrote:

Here are the measurements from my cab, taken with a Vernier gauge.

C/P to top of ball = 1.9" (subject to 'throw' movement)
C/P to bottom of ball = 0.57"
Ball diameter = 1.33"
Shaft diameter = 0.76"

[RandyT]

someone wrote:

Here are the measurements from my cab, taken with a Vernier gauge.

C/P to top of ball = 1.9" (subject to 'throw' movement)
C/P to bottom of ball = 0.57"
Ball diameter = 1.33"
Shaft diameter = 0.76"

And in the same thread......

...what I think you're looking for is. 1 7/8" from the top of the ball to the control panel surface. From the bottom of the ball to the control panel surface looks like about 5/8".  So I guess that would make the ball about 1 1/4". I measured this on a Ms. Pac upright.

I'm really curious now.  Original sticks on Pac games seem to be about as rare as hen's teeth, so I'm wondering which joysticks these folks were actually measuring.  Based on the context of the user's post you quoted, he doesn't appear to be using an original.  Not sure I trust his dimensions either.  .76" shaft diameter??     I'm really starting to think the Reunion sticks are accurate, and the rest are "close".

[LightningBolt]

someone wrote:

Here are the measurements from my cab, taken with a Vernier gauge.

C/P to top of ball = 1.9" (subject to 'throw' movement)
C/P to bottom of ball = 0.57"
Ball diameter = 1.33"
Shaft diameter = 0.76"

And in the same thread......

...what I think you're looking for is. 1 7/8" from the top of the ball to the control panel surface. From the bottom of the ball to the control panel surface looks like about 5/8".  So I guess that would make the ball about 1 1/4". I measured this on a Ms. Pac upright.

I'm really curious now.  Original sticks on Pac games seem to be about as rare as hen's teeth, so I'm wondering which joysticks these folks were actually measuring.  Based on the context of the user's post you quoted, he doesn't appear to be using an original.  Not sure I trust his dimensions either.  .76" shaft diameter??     I'm really starting to think the Reunion sticks are accurate, and the rest are "close".

I saw another thread on reddit where someone measured theirs as 1.25"

I have a Sanwa joystick (35mm balls are standard I believe) and it would seem too big for Midway joystick, at around 1.377 inches.

[RandyT]

I saw another thread on reddit where someone measured theirs as 1.25"

If they indicated that theirs was original, as the one I quoted seemed to, I think there might be a pattern emerging.

[LightningBolt]

Just for reference I definitely confirmed it's the black bushing and/or the hole it goes into. I made a video.






And I received a new Super joystick today and it does not have the same problem so perhaps just a fluke defect

[RandyT]

The issue seems to be the heavy spring tension of that stick, which creates friction between the bottom surface of the centering part and the socket.  To be honest, I think you stumbled upon the best solution, and probably the way the stick should really be assembled.  The two conical pieces are virtually identical, with the exception that the white one is made from a slippery material.  I think HAPP is putting them together incorrectly.  The white one should really be at the top.

*edit*

Did some more investigating.  Even with the white one at the top, there is still the sound of the part sliding and coming to an abrupt stop at the wall of the socket.  This action is unavoidable, as the part must move in order  to pivot properly.  The spring tension is high enough to keep the part in place, until the stick is tilted far enough to break the friction.  At that point, the part "snaps" into place.  So I think the best solution is what I recommended earlier.  Liberal application of a thick, silicone-based lube to smooth out the motion.  Also, analyzing it outside of actual use might be causing more concern that is warranted.  Put a dozen hours on the stick actually using it, and see if the sound persists.

[LightningBolt]

I know this is going to seem like me dragging this on but:

- got a custom pac-man stick from tornadoterry (the one that uses IL base) and the black bushing fits in nice and tight, no noise or clacking.

- got a super joystick (happ made) from tornadoterry and the black bushing fits similarly

- got another happ made pac-man reunion stick off a different seller on ebay and it had the same clicking/clacking as the original I tried! I switched bushings with the one from the super and the problem stopped but there was too much slop as it seems the actual hole, that the black bushing goes into, is too big now! So I switched the base except for the restrictor plate and everything seems pretty much fine now.

Ya I'm obsessed

I'm using the custom pac from tornado terry in my control panel and keeping the happ as a spare.

[jimmer]

The problem you've discovered is that there are a few sources (factories) for these sticks and lots of sellers and you never quite know what comes from where. Plus there could be a random element where it's not even as simple as this factory produces clacky ones, this one doesn't.

I've got these sticks ('Happ Super') from Xarcade, IL, and a couple of chinese factories direct. not got one from Happ direct and I've yet to get one with the problem you've found but I can feel the sideways play at the pivot.

[LightningBolt]

The clack seems to be a bushing problem but not sure what it is about the bushings that cause it. It's funny to think there are multiple factories I guess arcade stuff is still pretty popular

[RandyT]

The clack seems to be a bushing problem but not sure what it is about the bushings that cause it. It's funny to think there are multiple factories I guess arcade stuff is still pretty popular

Did you try lubing the socket?

It's not as simple as "multiple factories", and that may not even be true.  Injection molded parts come from multi-cavity molds.  Each cavity is slightly different, and the molten plastic flows into the cavities at different points during the "shot".  There will also be minor variations in temperature and other aspects of the run.  While injection molded parts are pretty uniform, given the cost per part, they are not going to be absolutely perfect from one part to the next.

I have a couple dozen of these sticks here, all from the same place (HAPP) and managed to find one that clicked a bit.  The others didn't.  I put some lube on the socket, and the click went away.  You are also dealing with a part subject to some pretty heavy friction.  This means that the dynamic will change once the part starts to wear a bit from use.  Not so different from breaking in a trackball, which mates the ball to the roller, and seats the ball bearings to the internal races.

If you use the stick for a couple of weeks, after you've taken any simple steps (like lube) to mitigate a perceived issue, and it continues to persist, then feel free to obsess about design / manufacturing aspects.   At this point in the overall process, however, it's somewhat pointless.  Sort of like spending time analyzing the weight, grip material and balance of a hammer before you try pounding a nail.

[RandyT]

Just took a bunch of these apart and found a small molding issue on one of them.  Maybe this will help you.

Look at the bottom (wide) part of that pivot part around the hole.  If there is a raised ring there, it's probably catching on the edge of the hole in the base.  The one I found was raised on one side, and not on the other, so it's likely the fill point for the mold cavity.  It's something which would likely wear down flat with use, but you can accelerate that with a bit of fine sandpaper on a flat, hard surface.  The part will still shift in the socket, but at least it will move easier and not get hung up on the base hole.  The reason the lube works is that it breaks the friction between the edges of the parts, but this seems to be a better approach.