BYOAC Talking Dead - Walking Dead Season 5

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RandyT:

--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on November 02, 2015, 02:53:17 pm ---I don't disagree with the fact that the philosophy of non-violence doesn't work in tribal society, but I think that's kind of the point... if you ever want to elevate your community out of a tribal society then you need to institute such philosophies, regardless of the consequences.

--- End quote ---

I think my brain just exploded. The way tribal societies, and humanity in general, became "elevated" was to cast out those with violent tendencies, who acted on them in ways which were not beneficial to the tribe. This was a death sentence in times where solitude made survival virtually impossible. Of course, if the case warranted it, they just cut to the chase and eliminated the threat...violently. Violence is an unsavory component of human nature, and to be completely rid of it, you'd pretty much need to "breed it out" of us. Or continuously cull the herd, which is violent in itself. I think both methods have been tried in the past, and are still in practice to a lesser extent (at least in this country.)

And what happens when one tribe achieves "non-violence", and twenty others have not? TWD poses a lot of these questions, which is part of what makes it so interesting. Even with the constant and formidable shared threat posed by the walkers, we don't cease being who, and what, we are.

Eastman's actions are a conundrum. He watched a man die for 47(?) days, and somehow lost the will to kill after the deed was done. He could have easily dispatched him at any time, which would have at least demonstrated some compassion on his part. No, if you have it in you to watch someone die at your own hands for that long, you are not likely to have an epiphany to the contrary. Everything he did after that were acts of contrition, fueled by guilt, not a higher sense of purpose. In other words, the shrink needed a shrink.

--- Quote ---Some things are more important than survival... like living a proper life.

--- End quote ---

Living a proper life is what one strives to do. Survival is what makes it possible. What Eastman did was not survival at the most basic level, so the parallels are poor. Even the act of converting Morgan was not pure. He needed him, and stated so. In a different context, the outcome may have been quite different. This was demonstrated in the final scene with one of the "wolves", where Morgan did lock the cage before leaving.

It was still good TV, poor concepts aside. Oh, and Glenn can't not be dead :)

harveybirdman:

--- Quote ---Everything he did after that were acts of contrition, fueled by guilt, not a higher sense of purpose.
--- End quote ---

Couldn't agree more.

I hope Morgan regains some sense of balance, especially if they intend to keep him around longer than his comic counterpart.

Howard_Casto:

--- Quote from: RandyT on November 02, 2015, 04:47:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on November 02, 2015, 02:53:17 pm ---I don't disagree with the fact that the philosophy of non-violence doesn't work in tribal society, but I think that's kind of the point... if you ever want to elevate your community out of a tribal society then you need to institute such philosophies, regardless of the consequences.

--- End quote ---

I think my brain just exploded. The way tribal societies, and humanity in general, became "elevated" was to cast out those with violent tendencies, who acted on them in ways which were not beneficial to the tribe. This was a death sentence in times where solitude made survival virtually impossible. Of course, if the case warranted it, they just cut to the chase and eliminated the threat...violently. Violence is an unsavory component of human nature, and to be completely rid of it, you'd pretty much need to "breed it out" of us. Or continuously cull the herd, which is violent in itself. I think both methods have been tried in the past, and are still in practice to a lesser extent (at least in this country.)

And what happens when one tribe achieves "non-violence", and twenty others have not? TWD poses a lot of these questions, which is part of what makes it so interesting. Even with the constant and formidable shared threat posed by the walkers, we don't cease being who, and what, we are.

Eastman's actions are a conundrum. He watched a man die for 47(?) days, and somehow lost the will to kill after the deed was done. He could have easily dispatched him at any time, which would have at least demonstrated some compassion on his part. No, if you have it in you to watch someone die at your own hands for that long, you are not likely to have an epiphany to the contrary. Everything he did after that were acts of contrition, fueled by guilt, not a higher sense of purpose. In other words, the shrink needed a shrink.

--- Quote ---Some things are more important than survival... like living a proper life.

--- End quote ---

Living a proper life is what one strives to do. Survival is what makes it possible. What Eastman did was not survival at the most basic level, so the parallels are poor. Even the act of converting Morgan was not pure. He needed him, and stated so. In a different context, the outcome may have been quite different. This was demonstrated in the final scene with one of the "wolves", where Morgan did lock the cage before leaving.

It was still good TV, poor concepts aside. Oh, and Glenn can't not be dead :)

--- End quote ---

Nope. We elevated ourselves out of tribal society by creating civilized society... were you have rules and laws, and just punishments for anyone who breaks those laws. "He's a bad guy so let's kill him!" is NEVER justified even though it continues to this day.

Survival is in no way necessary to live a proper life for the record. You pick a moral code and you try to live by it. If you die quicker because of said code that is ok because you lived without regret. Living is all about quality, not quantity.

Also you are confusing different societies with some sort of global society. What happens when one tribe is non-violent and 20 others aren't? Well That one tribe is only non-violent towards members of it's own tribe. The other groups aren't part of their society. You still try to resolve things between outsiders peacefully though. Note that Morgan still whipped the tar out of many of those wolves.... he just didn't kill them... because he's civilized.

harveybirdman:
While I hate to steer away from the can of worms I opened with the tribal comment.

Steven Yeun's name was missing from the credits. If he's not dead, the producers are trolling at best and if Daryl is the replacement for Glen's comic fate by proxy, I'm done.

Howard_Casto:
That's a nice catch. I honestly don't know. The night of that episode they were all buy saying he was dead but this last talking dead they were talking about "seeing what happened to glen" as if it wasn't all said and done. Honestly it's just ticking me off....if it was further along in the season I think I might be ok with it as the Negan stuff is going to happen soon anyway, but this was just a cheap ploy for ratings if you ask me.

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