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| BYOAC Talking Dead - Walking Dead Season 5 |
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| RandyT:
What you say, and what I say, about what elevated society are not different. Capturing someone is a violent act, as they won't give up willingly without the fear of said violence. Tribal laws are also laws, and punishments ranged from severe to not so much (i.e giving a family an animal in payment for misdeeds against it, etc.) A society incapable of directing violence against violence, simply breeds more violence, as there is little to deter it. --- Quote from: Howard_Casto on November 02, 2015, 06:59:08 pm ---Note that Morgan still whipped the tar out of many of those wolves.... he just didn't kill them... because he's civilized. --- End quote --- That's what makes Morgan dangerous to every person in that community. They ran away to regroup, and they will return to kill more of the community, or others they happen upon outside it. Letting them go with a "butt-kicking", after they slaughtered so many from the community, was a selfish act, not a civil one. |
| dkersten:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on November 02, 2015, 06:59:08 pm ---"He's a bad guy so let's kill him!" is NEVER justified even though it continues to this day. --- End quote --- Can I ask why? Is it because of your morality? And what defines that? In other words, finish the following sentence: Killing a person who committed crimes that are unforgivable is wrong because _________. The reason I ask is because it is really the central core of my next book and I had to really dive into what is "moral" and what isn't. In the simplest form of what I came up with, morality is a cultural ideal, not an instinct. I also believe it has religious roots. Take those two things away: the instilling of morality from your parents (ie "don't do that, it's wrong") and the religious repercussions for doing so (ie "you will suffer for all eternity, not just until you die"), and what is left to prevent it? Without those things holding you back, when someone is a threat that will never go away until you kill them, why would it not be a clear choice? Keep in mind, this is a Post Apocalyptic world. If you were religious (at least Christian based religion) you were left behind because this was, by definition, the Apocalypse. The ending of humans on earth. If you are left, you are Forsaken. Sorry, but regardless of what you do now, you no longer have a place in Heaven. And even if you never believed in an eternity, the culture that restricted you from committing murder no longer exists. In fact, nobody would blame you for killing someone because chances are every stranger is a threat. There could even be a good argument that it is necessary. You let him go and he will find more people and tell them you have food, shelter, weapons, etc. and they will return to try to kill you again. I think the episode does a good job of diving into this issue. Morgan's moral base was gone, completely. He had devolved into an animal that had one purpose: kill everything that gets close. There was nothing he cared about enough, including himself or his soul, to tell him there is something better, and nothing he did made him feel better. Then he meets a man who shows him a way that he can feel better about himself. With no other stimulus and no consequences, would you live your life in a way that felt better, that allowed you to sleep better at night and have positive emotions, or would you choose to keep living a life that was empty? When you start to look at the bigger picture, you have to ask what makes these people tick now that that moral base from culture and religion is stripped away. The culture that arises from the chaos will not be influenced by what society used to be, it will be born first of necessity and then from tradition. "Why do we kill people who commit crimes, dad?" "Because that's what we do, son." |
| harveybirdman:
Based on Negen's comic book fate, I believe that we will see the survivors eventually trend towards Morgan's point of view. I expect this to remain a central theme throughout the series. I just want to make sure that whatever we see on screen has a believable motivation behind it. I'm eager to discover what it may be for the Wolves, I will reserve judgement until that is revealed. |
| Howard_Casto:
--- Quote from: dkersten on November 03, 2015, 11:09:15 am --- --- Quote from: Howard_Casto on November 02, 2015, 06:59:08 pm ---"He's a bad guy so let's kill him!" is NEVER justified even though it continues to this day. --- End quote --- Can I ask why? Is it because of your morality? And what defines that? --- End quote --- It happens to align with my morality if that's what you mean, but there is a far more practical reason. Everyone has friends or family or followers/admirers of some kind, even if they are a really sick puppy. When you kill a person you might have gotten "revenge" or "justice" but you've potentially made an enemy of anyone associated with the person and now they want revenge on you. Violence begets more violence until the violence is so horrific that neither side can tolerate anymore... this isn't an opinion but rather a proven fact. Just ask the Japanese if you don't believe me. I'm not saying that a person or a community will never be forced to violence, but understand that when they do they have lost... because they couldn't resolve their differences peacefully and the likely outcome will be even more violence in the near or distant future. I think people take a bad reaction to that stance because they think I'm some kind of loopy hippie tree hugger when in reality I feel that way mainly because of cold logic and common sense. And yeah, unless the show really goes in a different direction, you better enjoy Eastman's teachings, because they are going to be implemented on a massive scale pretty soon. The current books are trying to answer the question of how a truly civilized society can exist when surrounded by savages so it's a very worthwhile topic if you are into TWD. |
| DaOld Man:
--- Quote from: dkersten on November 03, 2015, 11:09:15 am --- Keep in mind, this is a Post Apocalyptic world. If you were religious (at least Christian based religion) you were left behind because this was, by definition, the Apocalypse. The ending of humans on earth. Sorry, but regardless of what you do now, you no longer have a place in Heaven. --- End quote --- That is not correct, but I am not getting into it because I really dont want this thread sent to P&R. If you want, you can PM for my explanation. |
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