First Time Build: Looking for some clarification.

[cdspindle]

Hello,

I have a project in mind to build an arcade controller that is able to interface through USB with Windows and Linux, including a Raspberry Pi. I have done preliminary research, educating myself on the different types of buttons and joysticks, control panel layout, compatibility with Linux, and places to purchase. I still have some questions / want to confirm a few things and I figured this was the best place to ask them!

Since this is the first time that I am working with arcade parts, I decided that I will be going the cheaper route and purchasing a kit from eBay of 2 Happ competition joysticks and long push buttons. Additionally I will be purchasing wires and a 2 player arcade to usb conroller. I was looking at the ipac and xin mo controllers.

Is a 14" x 7" x 5" rectangular box excessive? It needs to house 1 Happ competition joystick, 8 long push buttons (1 for player and 1 for coin) and possibly the raspberry pi.

Are most long push buttons 2.6 inches long?

Is the base of Happ competition joysticks 4 inches long?

I read that some of these controllers have compatibility problems with the xin mo. Is the ipac a better option than the xin mo controller?

I plan on using MDF or Poplar to build the box. Is 1/4" too thin?

Any other suggestions for a first time builder?
I might start off with just the arcade parts and control board, but eventually I would like to fit the rpi in the controller. I would like to purchase Sanwa parts to make a smaller controller.

For a future build, what websites do you suggest for purchasing arcade parts?

[dkersten]

I would not go 1/4", use 1/2" at the least.  I think the ipac would be a good choice because it saves the settings in the firmware so you can plug it into any computer and it will work without loading any kind of files or software.  You could have a thumbdrive or sd card with the emulator and roms on it and go to any computer, plug in, and play.  And if you add a rpi, you just plug in and set things up.  Not sure if you need an HID driver for Linux, but I would guess any basic HID driver would work.

You need about 3" total depth from the top of the control panel surface to the bottom of the enclosure for most components, so if you go 1/2" all the way around, go at least 3.5" total thickness on the box.  That will clear most controller and button types, although I am sure there are a few joysticks out there that require a little more depth.  If you go 5", I am sure you will be fine. 

[cdspindle]

Hi dkersten,

Thank you very much for the advice and suggestions! I just with the ipac was not so dang expensive, but I figure it will be worth it! If I were to use another controller, would I just need to install drivers on each system I plan to use the arcade stick with?

On another note, before I was approved to post on this forum, I was browsing a few of the forum topics and came across your Nostalgia cabinet. I am beyond impressed with it!  I thought your user name looked familiar! Great job!

[Slippyblade]

I read that some of these controllers have compatibility problems with the xin mo. Is the ipac a better option than the xin mo controller?

For a future build, what websites do you suggest for purchasing arcade parts?

The Xin-Mo is crap.  It works, but it is low budget, chinese knock-off crap.  I've used it in the past and it does the job but it leaves a LOT to be desired.

The big three vendors tend to be...
Ultimarc
Groovy Game Gear
Paradise Arcade

Each one of them has their own brand of encoder.  Ultimarc is the Ipac, GGG has the KeyWiz, and Paradise has the Lono.  They all have their pros and cons, but all are better than the Xin-Mo.  Something to look at in addition is the Kade.  I've become quite the believer in that one.

[dkersten]

Thank you. 

I haven't used many other controllers, I just know that the ipac stores the config on the chip and uses a generic HID driver, so for something you could plug into any computer and use as a controller, that would be a simple way to go.  I recall reading somewhere that some controllers out there store the key map in a config file that needs to be loaded before you can use it.  I would bet though that for those controllers that require you load the config after a reboot you could just load it with a batch file before launching your front end (or as a plugin within the front end).  I believe the other brands mentioned all use a standard HID interface, so they should all load up as Human Interface Devices without any special drivers. 

I haven't looked at the Kade much, but from what I have seen it might be a great budget way to go.  I couldn't speak to how easily it would "plug and play" into a Linux box..

[PL1]

If I were to use another controller, would I just need to install drivers on each system I plan to use the arcade stick with?

Encoders (IPac, KeyWiz, KADE, etc.) don't require drivers, but you might need to change some MAME settings on your friend's system.

You will want to choose wisely between keyboard-style and gamepad-style encoders. (the wiki gamepad encoder page is rather out-of-date )

If your friend has a keyboard-style encoder and you use a gamepad-style encoder, the MAME defaults will see both controllers as controlling Player 1. (P1 button 1 = both left-ctrl and Joy1 Btn0)

KADE has a keyboard-style MAME multi-mode firmware described here that allows you to switch keymaps between P1/P2/P3/P4 with the touch of the HWB button.

That firmware was designed for portable controllers like you're describing -- maximum compatibility with other encoders (IPac, KeyWiz, etc.) and minimum MAME re-mapping.   

KADE is a standard USB HID keyboard (or USB HID gamepad if you load that firmware) and has been tested on a large number of different computer systems and consoles.

You might have a problem if you are running Win98 or earlier and need a "boot protocol" keyboard, but shouldn't have a problem with any modern OS AFAIK.


Scott
EDIT: Somewhat updated all 5 wiki encoder pages.

[cdspindle]

I apologize, I have been calling encoders, such as the ipac, "controllers."

As for the xin-mo, I'm going to take Slippyblade's word for it. It's more like a xin-NO ha ha ha....  ...yeah...

The Kade device looks like a great place to start! I'll have to do more research for myself to see the pros and cons of the different encoders, along with the compatibility for different Linux distributions. I'm not too worried about it working with Windows.

Also, thanks PL1 for the information regarding keyboard-style and gamepad-style encoders.

Thank you all for the clarification regarding the drivers and such.

Another thought came to mind.
For my first build I want to build a controller with the raspberry pi inside it. I would very much like to make a second controller, but still use the raspberry pi and arcade encoder in the other controller. Would it be wise to make the second controller and wire it into the first controller? I would like the wires from the second controller to be detachable. Is there such thing as a "patch panel" for these wires? I don't want to make a single two player controller (for now... I had another idea to make a modular 2 player controller that can be detached from a bartop cabinet and hooked up to a pc via usb, but that is for another time).

[dkersten]

If you go with 2 small and inexpensive "encoders", you could just have the second controller use a single USB to plug into the one with the Rpi.  Plus then your second controller could be used standalone to plug into any other computer and use as a single player controller.

[cdspindle]

Yes, this very much may be the way that I will have to go, especially if I go with the Kade device, it is built for only one controller.

Final questions for this topic:
Wires. Will any wires be fine (such as the wires inside a cat5 ethernet cable), or would it be wise to purchase other insulated wire?

Do the joystick and button eswitches require a specific size for the female quick disconnects? I would like to use those if I am making my own wiring.

[PL1]

Yes, this very much may be the way that I will have to go, especially if I go with the Kade device, it is built for only one controller.

It can easily handle a 2P joy+6 buttons setup using either shifted functions or extended mode.

Extended mode firmware allows 26 un-shifted outputs with 20 inputs. (up to 20 more outputs if you use HWB for shifted functions)

26 outputs = (Joy + 6 player buttons + Coin + Start) for P1 and P2 plus Pause and Exit.

Final questions for this topic:
Wires. Will any wires be fine (such as the wires inside a cat5 ethernet cable), or would it be wise to purchase other insulated wire?

People have used cat5, but crimping wire that small can be a challenge.

Paradise Arcade Shop has a great selection of inexpensive prefab wiring, ESPECIALLY their daisy chain grounds.

When working with non-prefab wiring, I prefer to work with 22AWG stranded or 24 AWG stranded.  YMMV.

If you decide to use solid core wire, QDs won't crimp properly (no strand compression to provide tension) so you will also want to solder the wire to the QD.

Do the joystick and button eswitches require a specific size for the female quick disconnects? I would like to use those if I am making my own wiring.

http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=FAQ#Basic_wiring


Scott