first time builder with spacing issues

[blitzd]

Long story not so short, I work at a somewhat popular bar/music venue in Baltimore and one of my fellow employees came into the possession of an arcade machine called Quartet. It's a terrible, terrible game, and our manager said 'wouldn't it be awesome if we could play that old school ninja turtles on it? That got me thinking about emulators and after days of searching the internet I wound up here. After reading thru dozens of faqs, convos and advice threads I feel like I could turn this crappy arcade game into a great Mame cab. I still have a few questions though..

The arcade cabinet is a bit on the thin side for a game with 4 players.


But our goal is to be able to play the 4 player game such as TMNT on it as well as 2 player fighting games such as mortal kombat 1-3, street fighters II series and hopefully the marvel vs capcom series of games. that would mean that players 1-2 have 6 buttons each and players 3-4 have 4.

I will be going in to do the measurements of the control panel tonight or tomorrow but as it is right now, I do not think I'd have enough room to give players 1 and 2 6 buttons without making it more cramped than it already is.

So I only could think of 3 solutions. First just drilling the new holes for the extra buttons on the existing panel and hoping that only tiny people want to play Simpsons.

Second option was making the control panel wider, which would mean i'd have to build extra support for the eventual drunk person who would mash down on the buttons trying to do some super combo.

or slide the 3-4 player area higher and remove the grey sides of the arcade cabinet shown here


 which would give players 3-4 more room. If I do this then I would have to completely replace the front control panel and I would have to put an LCD monitor inside the cab, since there would be no room for anything else. And I've spent the past few days playing mame games on my 40" LCD TV and I really don't think it's that bad of a picture so I'm sure drunkpeople won't mind. Anyone have any other thoughts?

My other question is how in the world am i supposed to turn the monitor on? I understand wiring a power pushbutton to the back of the cab so I can power on the PC, but I can't figure out how I would do the same for a monitor

Since I am going with either an LCD monitor or a television If there is anyone in the Baltimore area who would like the monitor from this arcade machine, please let me know and you can gladly take it. I believe it's in great condition, as we've played this crappy arcade game on it multiple times and have seen no issues. And if you'd like to give me a hand I'd be happy for the help

Windows xp computer with 4GB ram was put together by me from old computer parts.

[Generic Eric]

What a cool shape.  Any chance you could sketchout the dimensions and the angles before you start cutting it up?

That has great bones for a 3 player game or a vertical shooter.

[Mordwaffe]

I like the shape, TMNT was a four player two button game JAMMA harness, quartet was SEGA 16 wiring.

 I say pick up the TMNT PCB, see if someone makes a sega 16 to jamma adapter (or rewire it JAMMA), make some TMNT cab Decals that would be sweet (though cramped).

I like the look of that cab.

[Slippyblade]

Since the original post was a little ambiguous on the subject I feel the need to toss this out there.  If you plan on putting this cab in your friends bar, it is amazingly illegal to be running MAME in it.  If you are keeping it at home, go for it.

As far as 6 buttons on P1/P2, doesn't look like there is enough room for it.  I'd almost say to make two swappable panels.  One panel with 2 sticks and 6 button layout and the other with 4 sticks and 4 button layout.

[yotsuya]

Long story not so short, I work at a somewhat popular bar/music venue in Baltimore and one of my fellow employees came into the possession of an arcade machine called Quartet. It's a terrible, terrible game..

I know someone who would buy that from you sight unseen if you lived in this state.

[Generic Eric]

Long story not so short, I work at a somewhat popular bar/music venue in Baltimore and one of my fellow employees came into the possession of an arcade machine called Quartet. It's a terrible, terrible game..

I know someone who would buy that from you sight unseen if you lived in this state.

This state?

You mean you don't you?

[yotsuya]

Long story not so short, I work at a somewhat popular bar/music venue in Baltimore and one of my fellow employees came into the possession of an arcade machine called Quartet. It's a terrible, terrible game..

I know someone who would buy that from you sight unseen if you lived in this state.

This state?

You mean you don't you?

No, someone else. He loved that game growing up and specifically has asked me if I've seen one since I started collecting. If it were me, I would have said me.

BTW, it's not that bad of a game. I've played it before BITD.

[Slippyblade]

I used to love Quartet when I was younger.  My buddies and I would swap over to it when we got sick of Gauntlet.

[PL1]

Not to rain on the parade here, but it sounds like OP wants to MAME the cab for use at his place of business.

Unfortunately that violates the MAME license and, almost certainly, the local coin-op laws/licensing.
(many threads on these subjects, search is your friend)

A multi-JAMMA switcher with original PCBs (NOT an X-in-1) should keep the hardware part legal AFAIK.   


Scott

[Vigo]

Wow, that cab looks so cool! I am gonna have to check out quartet.

My recommendation is you make a non-invasive mame conversion of it. That way, you can still enjoy the cab, you never know when you will want it back as a pure quartet again. I did this to my first cab, and I am very very grateful I did. I found love for the game and was able to unconvert it from a mame cab and it is the favorite item in my collection.

First thing is do not use the original control panel, make a new one and swap it in. You can keep the old panel still up and running.

If the monitor works, keep using it. Just interface your computer with it. Ultimarc ArcadeVGA or other arcade video card is your friend. No reason to downgrade to a TV.

You can make an awesome machine out of that. 

[yotsuya]

Yeah, I don't want to get into the whole "MAME or not to MAME" discussion, but I just wanted to state (and glad to see the Slippy can concur) that the game isn't that bad, and that there are people who think that cab might be desirable. It certainly is unique (and, if the first photo is the actual cab, in great shape).

[Slippyblade]

Thus one of the reasons I suggested making swappable panels.  Keep the original in untouched condition in storage.  Then later on you can always swap it back and have an original cabinet.

[Generic Eric]

I read the same thing as everyone else, but I didn't read the part about it being in a bar.  It is definitely implied.  That is the sort thing that will bring thing this hobby down. 

To OP:
Cool cabinet is cool.  I'd enjoy knowing the dimensions of the cab and to know its angles.

I'm not in NJ, but in many states you need to pay a fee for having an amusement machine in your business.  Operators license and a per machine fee. 

[blitzd]

I've read a few of the posts here and yeah, it's a business. I figured (incorrectly) that if we weren't charging it would be ok but after reading I realized I was in error. But we did look into entertainment licensing before we even brought it in the building and we actually do not have to pay any type of fee for a machine that is not connected to the internet or includes music licensed by the RIAA. There are fees for machines that are leased or rented thru a vendor, but not for anything that you explicitly own that isn't. So having an arcade machine in a bar is perfectly fine. I did look into JAMMA PCB's, but they are expensive as heck for the popular games. TMNT is about 200 bucks. Ninja Gaiden is 70. I'd spend more money on one board than I would for all the components to make it work.


I'm not painting the machine or anything. All the graphics on it will simply be covered with band flyers, since there is so much awesome artwork on these flyers. The board is mounted on the left side of machine and there is ample room for the computer I am putting inside of it. So unless I move the panel back to make more room for buttons, it won't be modified that much.


And as far as using it in the business, worse case scenario since it's mine once I build it I can always just take it home or keep it in the office for employees only. We have employee parties all the time.

[PL1]

You may also want to consider this:

Anyway, basics are simple, you can't legally operate a MAME cabinet in a commercial environment, a workplace would count as this.

Scott

[DeLuSioNal29]

You could always get a 6 in 1 JAMMA switcher as well.  Over time you can collect more games.  Simpson, TMNT, TMNT2, Gauntlet, Quartet, NBA JAM, etc.

DeLuSioNaL29

[Vigo]

Yeah, I don't want to get into the whole "MAME or not to MAME" discussion, but I just wanted to state (and glad to see the Slippy can concur) that the game isn't that bad, and that there are people who think that cab might be desirable. It certainly is unique (and, if the first photo is the actual cab, in great shape).

Totally agree, that conversation is old. I am just offering some suggestions to blitzd, before he makes some decisions that can't be undone. Kinda silly to toss a working monitor when it can be used, and you can't go back on an original CP.

I'm looking forward to trying Quartet. Back in the day, that unique of a cab would have gotten me to drop a quarter in a heartbeat.

[yotsuya]

Yeah, I don't want to get into the whole "MAME or not to MAME" discussion, but I just wanted to state (and glad to see the Slippy can concur) that the game isn't that bad, and that there are people who think that cab might be desirable. It certainly is unique (and, if the first photo is the actual cab, in great shape).

Totally agree, that conversation is old. I am just offering some suggestions to blitzd, before he makes some decisions that can't be undone. Kinda silly to toss a working monitor when it can be used, and you can't go back on an original CP.

I'm looking forward to trying Quartet. Back in the day, that unique of a cab would have gotten me to drop a quarter in a heartbeat.

 

[blitzd]

Well here are some pictures I took with my apparently horrible iphone 3gs. They are a bit blurry...


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/blitzomaru/photo1_zps028667f3.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/blitzomaru/photo2_zpse6b5c59f.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/blitzomaru/photo3_zps75f83f46.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/blitzomaru/photo5_zpsb3683973.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/blitzomaru/photo4_zps5855b971.jpg


Also I do have measurements of the control panel. And I even drew up a crude drawing of the dimensions in Paint! Cause I have no life!

I understand members aversion to modifying the cab itself. Like I said, I don't plan on painting it at all. In fact when the plan was to keep it at the bar, we were gonna just tape pictures of myself and 3 other bartenders on the sides of it and the other side would just be covered in band posters. I checked inside the coin slot tonight and there is a ton of room inside of the machine. The board is mounted on the left side so the computer Im putting inside has plenty of room. but when it comes to space it's just too tiny the way it is to do everything I want with it. I just don't want to invest money buying a $75 video card to display 15KHz and when I install the new control panel players 3 and 4 can't see the screen. But since I'm doing all of this for the first time I am more than willing to listen to any advice. If you think I could fit those buttons on a control panel using those dimensions or slightly larger with support, I'm willing to give it a shot.

[Vigo]

Definitely not trying to bust your chops, but trying to dispel the notion that it is the easier route to gut a cabinet in order to get it working with Mame. I'm sure you will make something awesome out of this.

Although I personally only used the ArcadeVGA card, I believe that most video cards that have 15ghz support with work on an arcade monitor. I think you could pick up something used on craigslist for cheap. Since MAME does not really utilize graphics processing, you should be able to get an old card and it won't affect the performance. The arcade monitor will turn on when you power the machine up, so besides running the wires to the monitor, it should be just fine Leaving the monitor as-is. If you get a TV or LCD monitor, you will need to be sure you get one that will turn on automatically when you turn on power to it, otherwise you do have to wire in some sort of button to the back of the cabinet to turn on the monitor on separately. You will also possibly need to decase your monitor to fit in snug, but if that bezel glass over it is tinted like it looks like it might be, you should probably be OK leaving it in the case.

For control panel, 4 players can be done on a panel like that, but there will be some bumping elbows, which is not too horrible of a thing. It is the same width panel as most 4 player games back in the day. I have build 4 player setups on that size panel before. Tight, but still works. Widening the panel is not an easy option, because that kind of cabinet does not allow for a control panel "Box". Any controls you have that are further out from the side of the cab will poke through, unless you do some bigger modifications.

I stand by my earlier suggestion that you just start a new panel, that way you can get the joysticks placed exactly where you want them. A cabinet that big, you can just leave the old panel inside the cabinet. Just paint the new panel with some black enamel, cheap and easy, and you can pick up some $10 new joysticks if you want because those old ones look kinda sloppy. Doing a test panel from some scrap wood or very thick cardboard is not a bad idea either. That way to can fiddle with your joystick and button placement and get a feel for how to best place everything.

 

[pbj]

If you plan on putting this cab in your friends bar, it is amazingly illegal to be running MAME in it.

No, it's not.  Shut up.

 

[blitzd]

Like I said, I'm taking it home, not right now, as now I have to figure out where the hell it can go. Unfortunately, it's at the bar right now being played by no one cause honestly no one likes the game and it took 4 of us to get it upstairs to the 2nd floor. I really don't wanna move it anytime soon, tho if that montior comes out the weight goes down significantly.

[Generic Eric]

Thanks for posting the dimensions.

Have fun with your cab!

[blitzd]

A bit of updating and further questions. I know these 2 other questions have most likely been answered in other threads, but I'm trying to save as much money as I can here. I bought a slab of MDF and have measure the size of the control panel. I created a button layout in Microsoft Visio, but is there a better program? Something that would ensure that I have the proper button spacing and size that I could then print out and use as a guide?

The ArcadeVGA card is 90 bucks plus shipping and handling. I found an old GeForce fx5200 that I might be able to use with Soft 15khz. I have an ancient 15" lcd monitor I could hook up so the bios screen goes thru it and the arcade monitor I have can be the primary monitor when windows boots. Is this viable?

And another question. has anyone tried Amazon for their control panel parts? I browsed there just to check and there are a lot of great deals.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Check this out for layouts.  You can print them out and affix it to the panel.  Drill pilot holes with a drill first, then remove the paper and use a hole saw for the rest.

http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

D

[yotsuya]

And another question. has anyone tried Amazon for their control panel parts? I browsed there just to check and there are a lot of great deals.

The ones that ship from Paradise Arcade are from a vendor that posts here.

[ark_ader]

I want that cab. 

Quartet was an old favourite of mine, and just look at the options.

I wonder if Haruman could knock off a few flat packs......

[blitzd]

And another question. has anyone tried Amazon for their control panel parts? I browsed there just to check and there are a lot of great deals.

The ones that ship from Paradise Arcade are from a vendor that posts here.

Thanks for the info I ahd multiple windows open and was tryign to determine which was most cost effective, buying from paradise arcade and retroarcde via amazon, the website, or Ultimarc. I went with Amazon. 137 bucks later and my joysticks, buttons and ipac should be here within 9 days plus a quick stop at Radio Shack for proper disconnectors, and I should be in business.

[blitzd]

Another Update. Joysticks and Ipac arrived today. Also, I saw a video on youtube (will try to find it again) where a guy built his control panel using wires from Cat5 cable. I've got like 100m of the stuff, so this should work, right? wires are wires, right?

[leapinlew]

Yeah, cat5 cabling works.

FYI, check out ground cables pre-made to save some time.

[PL1]

Another Update. Joysticks and Ipac arrived today. Also, I saw a video on youtube (will try to find it again) where a guy built his control panel using wires from Cat5 cable. I've got like 100m of the stuff, so this should work, right? wires are wires, right?

Those wires are usually 30AWG IIRC:
 -- Big enough to handle encoder signals
 -- Can be difficult to strip without damaging strands if you don't have a decent pair of wire strippers
 -- Small enough to often make crimps problematic (you may want to solder the wire to the QD and crimp on the insulation)
 -- Ensure you use good mechanical strain relief to avoid breaking strands

+1 on pre-fab daisy-chain grounds, preferably one with insulating boots.


Scott

[blitzd]

Thanks for the info. I'll search for cheap premade ground wires. Figured that if Cat5/6 works then it means I have saved money that can go towards something else...

Also, some more good news!

Buttons will be here tomorrow! I put the joysticks together and While they sound really clicky, I'm positive I won't hear them as much once they are installed. I mean my computer is loud as heck when I take the side panel off, but its pretty quiet enclosed. Brainstorming ways to make the joysticks flush with the control panel since I have absolutely no woodworking experience. Here are some pics!

[mgb]

cat5 is 24awg and it will work. just keep in mind that its solid (most likely, though stranded can be bought) and crimp connectors are not truly meant for solid core wire.
truthfully you'd save time and possible connection failures by buying an economy jamma harness and hacking off the jamma connector end. Then you'd have proper cable already terminated properly for the buttons and joysticks. some of them come with the premade ground loops too

[PL1]

I'll search for cheap premade ground wires. Figured that if Cat5/6 works then it means I have saved money that can go towards something else...

Also, some more good news!

Buttons will be here tomorrow! I put the joysticks together and While they sound really clicky, I'm positive I won't hear them as much once they are installed.

Check Paradise Arcade shop here for the daisy-chain grounds. (I really like their 16-pack rainbow pre-crimped wires, too -- YMMV)

Their other product you should consider is the LS-32/zippyy switch upgrade that also works well on the Happ Super/IL Compact sticks that you have -- lower force to actuatie the switch and less noisy.

The only "downside" is when you push the joystick one direction and release it, the centering spring can cause the actuator to overshoot and momentarily actuate the opposite direction.


Scott

[blitzd]

Update time! Good news and bad news....

Bad news: The screen on my Quartet game isn't working anymore. it's getting power but it's completely black. I'm googling like crazy but I have no idea what any of the stuff I'm supposed to look for is inside this thing. So I am most likely going the CRT/television route.

Good news is that I have found someone to cut my plexiglass holes for me for almost free (paying in pizza and beer and the first MvC2 match). I'm still a bit torn on the length of the cabinet as it is now so I'm pondering 2 different setups.

staying with the 30" 4 player and cramming extra buttons in. Very few games will require player 3/4 input so most of the space will be for player 1/2 in the middle,

Making a control panel box and cutting out a portion of the cab to fit it in. increasing the size of the cab to 34-36" to add extra space. only problem I have with this setup would be making sure that the panel is tightly secured and I'd need more wood for building the entire thing.

Other good news is that I got 95% of the stuff I want to work in Hyperspin working. Having a problem with Fusion not working in Hyperspin, but it's prolly an easy fix Im not seeing.

[Vigo]

Bad news: The screen on my Quartet game isn't working anymore. it's getting power but it's completely black. I'm googling like crazy but I have no idea what any of the stuff I'm supposed to look for is inside this thing. So I am most likely going the CRT/television route.

  That's no good. You should post a thread under the Monitor/Video topic. We have some great monitor gurus here that might be able to help.

[paigeoliver]

Don't cut the cabinet, once you cut the cabinet you might as well put it directly in the dumpster because cutting the cabinet guarantees that it will end up there someday.

If you haven't married yourself to a layout yet then seriously consider just going with 2 player. In 14 years of being heavily involved in the arcade and mame hobby I have only played a single 4 player game with all 4 players present and that was on a 4 player Pong. You can have a TMNT cabinet on free play at a party with 25 people there and they will play 2 at a time rather than squeezing in for 4 player action.

Btw, wish you had offered that up on Klov before you started converting it, you could have easily gotten a much more suitable donor cabinet in trade for it (dedicated Quartets are really rare). I am currently working on rigging my Gauntlet cab to also run a Quartet board on a switching setup.

[blitzd]

That's no good. You should post a thread under the Monitor/Video topic. We have some great monitor gurus here that might be able to help.

I'll give it a post. Thanks for the advice!

Don't cut the cabinet, once you cut the cabinet you might as well put it directly in the dumpster because cutting the cabinet guarantees that it will end up there someday.

If you haven't married yourself to a layout yet then seriously consider just going with 2 player. In 14 years of being heavily involved in the arcade and mame hobby I have only played a single 4 player game with all 4 players present and that was on a 4 player Pong. You can have a TMNT cabinet on free play at a party with 25 people there and they will play 2 at a time rather than squeezing in for 4 player action.

Btw, wish you had offered that up on Klov before you started converting it, you could have easily gotten a much more suitable donor cabinet in trade for it (dedicated Quartets are really rare). I am currently working on rigging my Gauntlet cab to also run a Quartet board on a switching setup.

Honestly I have thought the same. It would just be much better to make a 2 player machine otu of it but I  really really want to make a 4 player TMNT machine. But the more I look at it the easier it would be to just make it 2 player.

Also I have gone on record about how much i personally don't like the game quartet. It's just not a game I like to play. If I can't get the arcade monitor to work and have to replace it, I'm most likely going to offer up the Quartet board for free here. I know it's blasphemy but I'd much rather someone else enjoy the game than for it to just sit here unused.

[paigeoliver]

That's no good. You should post a thread under the Monitor/Video topic. We have some great monitor gurus here that might be able to help.

I'll give it a post. Thanks for the advice!

Don't cut the cabinet, once you cut the cabinet you might as well put it directly in the dumpster because cutting the cabinet guarantees that it will end up there someday.

If you haven't married yourself to a layout yet then seriously consider just going with 2 player. In 14 years of being heavily involved in the arcade and mame hobby I have only played a single 4 player game with all 4 players present and that was on a 4 player Pong. You can have a TMNT cabinet on free play at a party with 25 people there and they will play 2 at a time rather than squeezing in for 4 player action.

Btw, wish you had offered that up on Klov before you started converting it, you could have easily gotten a much more suitable donor cabinet in trade for it (dedicated Quartets are really rare). I am currently working on rigging my Gauntlet cab to also run a Quartet board on a switching setup.

Honestly I have thought the same. It would just be much better to make a 2 player machine otu of it but I  really really want to make a 4 player TMNT machine. But the more I look at it the easier it would be to just make it 2 player.

Also I have gone on record about how much i personally don't like the game quartet. It's just not a game I like to play. If I can't get the arcade monitor to work and have to replace it, I'm most likely going to offer up the Quartet board for free here. I know it's blasphemy but I'd much rather someone else enjoy the game than for it to just sit here unused.

I'll be happy to cover shipping on the Quartet board just to have a spare.

[yotsuya]

I'll be happy to cover shipping on the Quartet board just to have a spare.

You didn't offer him a year's worth of 24/7 support. 

[Xiaou2]

Please Stop the Presses.

 This is probably quite the Rare game, as Ive only personally ran into one Once in my life.. when I was a kid, and I remember enjoying and dumping quite a bit of cash into it.   The music was especially memorable.  Very positive and upbeat.

 Even if you do not enjoy it... there are collectors out there that would probably pay good money to have that in their collection.  Especially in such great condition.

 Some may trade you for a generic cab more suited to your desires.

[yotsuya]

Please Stop the Presses.

 This is probably quite the Rare game, as Ive only personally ran into one Once in my life.. when I was a kid, and I remember enjoying and dumping quite a bit of cash into it.   The music was especially memorable.  Very positive and upbeat.

 Even if you do not enjoy it... there are collectors out there that would probably pay good money to have that in their collection.  Especially in such great condition.

 Some may trade you for a generic cab more suited to your desires.

I'm in total agreement with you on this, my friend. However, the OP has made up his mind, so be it.

[paigeoliver]

I'll be happy to cover shipping on the Quartet board just to have a spare.

You didn't offer him a year's worth of 24/7 support. 

He didn't ask for it.

[blitzd]

I think I'm about to piss some people off.... so in advance...My bad.

So when we moved the cab out of the bar something happened and the screen wouldn't come on anymore. at first you could hear sounds but no picture but eventually  event eh sounds stopped. So I was googling troubleshooting methods and was gonna at least try to fix the screen, but then I ran into a big issue....

The entire back of my cab was made out of particle board. It was 2 separate pieces but both were drilled in and the holes were covered with the artwork of the cab. So I had to use a jigsaw to cut 2 distinct holes in the cab to remove the back panels to check everything. After going thru every step I could that didn't involve going out and buying every replacement piece cause nothing seemed to be blown, I decided to chuck the monitor. Also most of the wires inside looked like they might have been chewed on by a mouse at some point and there was water damage to most of the wood I cut out.

Looking inside the cabinet it was obvious to me that someone else had already hacked away at this before I received it, most likely in an attempt to fix the game. wires that were inside there weren't hooked to anything. the Marquee light wasn't even plugged in, and there were just wires hanging everywhere. So yeah, the cab has been 'cleaned up'. Lifted up what I can only assume was the amp and the power supply and moved them to one side instead of the middle of the back, to give my computer more room. The 'stand' if you want to call it that that the arcade monitor was mounted on was 2 swiveling pieces of wood that weren't really that thick for how heavy the monitor was. I'm going to remove them tomorrow along with a few other pieces of wood inside the cabinet so I can fit my crt television inside. I'll also most likely take a piece of plywood to replace the particle board that was used to support the back.

I also finished my control panel pushbuttons. I am in the process of getting the a router

[blitzd]

So my arcade cab is FINISHED!!!! once again, crappy camera but it is up and running. plays NES, SNES, Genesis, Dreamcast and MAME games. There are a few more things I have to do to make it look prettier. The TV mounted inside of it can be easily seen, and I'd like to be able to cover that up with some kind of black frame. I wanted to replace the QUARTET marquee, but it seems to be actually on the glass so I'd have to replace the glass completely. Since I really don't wanna do anything when it comes to the glass, and I still have the Quartet control panel, I think I'll have to suck it up and keep the glass. Once I get a better camera I'll take some pictures but alas my crappy iphone 3gs doesnt have flash or a good camera so this is the best I can do.