Getting native resolutions and refresh rates with model 2,super model and Naomi?

[Endprodukt]

Okay, this is not really gm related, but since the people using gm want to get native resolutions i thought i might ask here.

I will get a nos hantarex trisync 25" monitor and I'm wondering how i can use native resolutions outside of gm with it. I'm talking about model 2 games, Naomi and super model 3. What's important to me is not just the resolution but also the right refresh rate of those systems.

Anyone ever did this and can help out?

Thanks,

Olli

[Calamity]

Check this: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135428.0.html

[Endprodukt]

Thanks Calamity. I know how to create resolution in arcade osd, i was wondering how I make emulator switch to the correct resolution after I created it.

[Calamity]

Thanks Calamity. I know how to create resolution in arcade osd, i was wondering how I make emulator switch to the correct resolution after I created it.

That totally depends on the emulator. Once the resolution with the proper refresh is available to the system (after creating it with VMMaker by adding the proper information to ReslList.txt), then you need to persuade the emulator to make use of it. I don't know the particular case, but you can usually find the custom resolution settings in the video menu of the emulator or its .ini configuration file. Bear in mind that to each video mode is labelled by the system by using 3 values: width x height @ refresh. The refresh value you need to use is the one shown as an integer label by ArcadeOSD (not the real value with decimal figures). Now, if the emulator only allow you to specify 2 values (width x height), then you can't be sure the right resolution will be picked, in the usual case when you have two instances of the same resolution available with different refresh rates. If this is the case, you need to make sure only one instance of that exact resolution is present in the system, this will force the emulator into picking that one. Finally, in the case when the emulator doesn't allow you to specify a custom resolution, you're out of luck and you should complain to the emulator writer for his lack of consideration.

[Endprodukt]

Was my guess. I'm running into problems though.

I know how to change existing resolutions in Arcade OSD but since I'm using magic resolutions I rather need to add another modeline as Model 2 emu can't pick it from the magic resolutions (of course)

Native resolution of the Model 2 Hardware is 496 x 384 non-interlaced and a refreshrate somewhere around 59hz... nobody seems to know exactly.

So what I want to do is try around and add this mode somehow. I'm pretty sure I need to add it to the modeline.txt and run VMM but I'm not 100% sure so I better ask

[Calamity]

So what I want to do is try around and add this mode somehow. I'm pretty sure I need to add it to the modeline.txt and run VMM but I'm not 100% sure so I better ask

Not in modeline.txt, you need to add it in ReslList.txt, as explained in the post I linked above
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135428.msg1401831.html#msg1401831

Then, run VMMaker and it will calculate the new modeline (resolutions added in ReslList.txt are applied different rules: ModeTableMethod_Custom).

Regarding the Hantarex ranges, use these in vmmaker.ini:

      monitor_specs0    15700-15800, 45-80, 4.000, 4.700, 5.300, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 288, 448
      monitor_specs1    16100-16200, 45-80, 1.280, 4.500, 6.420, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 288, 448
      monitor_specs2    25100-25200, 45-80, 0.200, 0.400, 8.000, 0.040, 0.040, 0.640, 0, 0, 384, 768
      monitor_specs3    31500-31600, 45-80, 0.170, 0.350, 5.500, 0.040, 0.040, 0.640, 0, 0, 576, 800

As an alternative, you can add a 25 kHz modeline by using Winmodelines, without recalculating all the modelines with VMMaker.

[Endprodukt]

Worked like a charm. I already used the polostar presets in vmm and mame.ini. Seems like 25hz modes aren't centered for me horizontally. In Blitz, Mace and other midway med res games I have a big black border on the right side.

[Calamity]

Depending on how the 3 ranges are adjusted from factory, my ranges may not fit your monitor. The ones I posted correspond to my Polostar. You can correct the 25 kHz range by editing the horizontal porches. Or... on the E-W board, there are 3 pots corresponding to H-shift for each separate range, you can make an adjustment there, check the manual for details.

[Endprodukt]

Thanks Calamity...

seems like some 25hz games like Popeye or Paperboy only run at 50% for some reason. Andy ideas on the go before I post a log?

[Endprodukt]

It seems like I can't get the 25hz mode right. I can center the image via HSyncPulse with 2.400 instead of 0.400 from the preset but I can't get rid of the border to the right.

So I turned back to the preset and tried to shift the picture on the e/w board and turned RV3 which is supposed to be the H-Shift for 25Khz. For testing, I started Virtua Fighter in Mame. I turned Rv3 and it DID shift the picture and I was happy. After pressing exit I got back to the desktop and my desktop was shifted to the right, too. My desktop is 640x480i 31khz. Why is this happening?

[Calamity]

It seems like I can't get the 25hz mode right. I can center the image via HSyncPulse with 2.400 instead of 0.400 from the preset but I can't get rid of the border to the right.

Sure you can't get rid of the border by modifying the relative sizes of H front porch and H back porch?

So I turned back to the preset and tried to shift the picture on the e/w board and turned RV3 which is supposed to be the H-Shift for 25Khz. For testing, I started Virtua Fighter in Mame. I turned Rv3 and it DID shift the picture and I was happy. After pressing exit I got back to the desktop and my desktop was shifted to the right, too. My desktop is 640x480i 31khz. Why is this happening?

640x480i 31 kHz is not possible, it's either 640x480i 15 kHz or 640x480 31 kHz.

Anyway, if this is the case you can compensate it by modifying the 31 kHz crt_range. It's odd, the manual states RV3 is 25 kHz horizontal phase, and RV2 the 31 kHz horizontal phase.

[Endprodukt]

Got it working by Fixing the desktop mode instead of the 25khz mode ... what an adventure. Now it's okay. Since you seem to have a polo star: Did you ever experienced that the monitor couldn't switch into the correct resolution? For example: I start MK and I get a doubled picture that freaks out. I exit and start again: everything is ok.

Yes, it's 640x480 32khz. Sorry

[Calamity]

Did you ever experienced that the monitor couldn't switch into the correct resolution? For example: I start MK and I get a doubled picture that freaks out. I exit and start again: everything is ok.

Don't panic. This is a "feature" of the Polostar. Sometimes it doesn't detect the mode switch properly. Sometimes it helps using different sync polarities for the 15 and the 31 kHz ranges (doing it in VMMaker & GM), but not always. In the long term, it's better not being switching from 31 to 15 kHz all the time. I know it's cool to have a frontend at 31 kHz, but honestly, you can live without it. These things do break and constant 15-31 kHz switching can't be any good (although I do it too, the Polostar is now my primary testing monitor, hopefully I must not regret in the future). So it's better to use a 15 kHz frontend and just use 31 kHz for games that natively use that range, which happens less often.

[Endprodukt]

I asked my arcade monitor tech (he was into this business for over 30 years and is the GO TO guy in germany for repairs on chassis) if switching between the resolutions would harm the chassis and he said: No, that's what their built for.

Of course that doesn't mean it could shorten it's life, but running the screen will shorten it's life, too.

[Calamity]

The thing is, a batch of these NOS Polostars has been sold here in Spain over the last year by a local seller. I got one of these. Many, many of them have failed after a short period due to some components mainly on the E-W being faulty. They can get fixed however. But it's been too bad for the reputation of this model, and now some people are saying "hey, these things weren't done for being constantly switching resolutions, etc," and indirectly blaming for the kind of stress GM can cause, etc. IMHO the problem is probably more related to the fact that these monitors must have been sitting for years in some forgotten place and some components may have gone bad. But I prefer being extra prudent now

[Endprodukt]

We're dealing with CRT's and they can go bad from one minute to another. That's how analog equiptment behaves. Good thing is: There is almost nothing that can't be repaired on the good old CRT's.

So... I don't know about you but I'll keep the resolution switching.

Thanks Calamity for GM. Seriously.

[cools]

I've actually killed a (rare, top notch Toshiba) tri-sync chassis before by feeding it a bad signal. I've also heard anecdotal evidence that switching between 15 and 31k resolutions on newer Chinese chassis (Rodotron 666) has killed off one of the syncs... Not surprising when you witness one of those live switching, it's extremely harsh.

The only tri-sync I've got now is one of the ridiculously expensive late Toshiba digital pure flats. I'd prefer to give it an easy life, so resolution switching is in, but sync switching is most definitely out.

Good thing is: There is almost nothing that can't be repaired on the good old CRT's./quote]

If custom parts and/or schematics are available.