Newbie hand-holding request

[zjqj]

Hi all.

This forum is like a treasure chest now I'm the owner of an arcade cab!

I bought it recently, and it's set up with a PC running Linux, Lincade and a few games. It's running an old version of Mame, and as much as it works nicely, I'd rather have a Windows box (XP) running Mame, as I really know my way around the OS and emu software.

The chap I bought it from told me that the GPU in it is a relic - required to send video to the big old CRT in the cabinet. I could kinda see what was happening when I booted into Lincade... the screen rolled around and twitched as the boot screens loaded, then at some point the correct command (to change the hz) was executed on the system and the screen landed perfectly on Lincade start screen, ready for action.

So, I thought I'd swap the drive in the box for a new one and stick XP on it, then load up all of my Windows emulator stuff, and try a few Mame/Emu front ends on it.

All I would really need to do is get the correct drivers for the GPU and I'd be laughing.

........

Not that easy, I have since discovered.

I'm sure if I can get the correct drivers it will work by setting the correct settings for the arcade crt, unplugging the box from my LCD and plugging it into the VGA cable that comes out of the card in the back of the cabinet (It looks like a j-pac, but slightly different from the one shown on the ultimarc site), I'll then be able to see if the GPU settings work with the CRT - if they do I can then go back to the LCD and set up the emu frontend (or at least Mame), and if it is a j-pac gizmo I can set up the controller mapping too, then switch it back over to the cabinet and everything will just work nicely forever! .


I guess the best bet is for me to post a few photos of the cabinet and all the bits, and hope that one of you guys can generously share a little of your valuable experience and point me in the right direction (or put me out of my misery).

=]

Anyway, here goes:
GPU photo:




J-Pac board:




Cabinet:




Inside back:




Available cables from J-Pac board:





Any help would be really appreciated.

Thank you all,

zj

[shiori1425]

So, I'm not entirely sure what you are asking here but the graphics card is probably a Matrox G400 16MB card.  (The drivers are here: http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/support/drivers/latest/)

Get your win PC running good outside the cab before you do anything inside of it. Then put it in the cab, adjust the display, set up the controls and start playing.

[zjqj]

Thanks for the link.

I can see I wasn't very clear. I didn't explain that I found some drivers for the card (I read that I would need special drivers to output at 15Hz) installed them but the driver settings didn't have an obvious option for setting it to 15Hz, or setting the resolution at CGA, something else I read I would need to do) so when I plugged it in to the cab I just got a rolling screen.

If I install the drivers for a Matrox G400 16MB card from the link you have given, what settings will I need to set in XP display window to make it work properly on the cabinet?

[shiori1425]

Ok, I get you.  I don't know how to make the Matrox driver output 15khz.

This may help though: http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Soft-15khz
It says it supports Matrox Drivers and is made for windows.  I'd give that read.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

[Dawgz Rule]

Soft15khz should do the trick for you.  Works great and is very easy to use. 

[zjqj]

Great stuff, thank you for the info - I'll check it out later on (I'm away right now)

Is there a better GPU I could use for the type of CRT that's in the cabinet? I only ask as there's a computer fair on nearby (every saturday) where I could picj up pretty much any type of card, esp old ones - there's guys who have stalls there with boxes and boxes of old gear in them for sale for next to nothing...


Anyone recognise the Ultimarc hardware in the picture? Is it just a different type of J-Pac?

[Brian74]

What picture?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

[zjqj]

The second picture in my original post. Is it not displaying for you? (I did a permalink hack with my google drive account, bit presumed it was working because the first reply made an attempt at identifying the card).

[rCadeGaming]

Is there a better GPU I could use for the type of CRT that's in the cabinet?

I would recommend something that works with CRT_Emudriver.  CRT_Emudriver is an alternative to Soft15kHz.  It will also get the PC to output arcade resolutions that will work your monitor.  They ultimately do the same thing, but CRT_Emudriver is a lot more convenient and flexible for adjustments.  It also goes hand in hand with GroovyMAME, which anyone using a real CRT should look into.  Here's a link to CRT_Emudriver, with a list of compatible video cards:

http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/

How far do you want to take this?  You could just get another AGP card that will work with the current PC, or you could get a newer PC that will work with a PCI-E card.  Also, while I agree that you should use XP, it would be best if you could use XP64.

[zjqj]

Thanks rCade - It looks like CRT_Emudriver only works on ATI Catalyst stuff whereas the card I've got is a Matrox. Oddly enough, during my attemtps to get all of this working I found an old ATI Rage3d to use with a second monitor (enabling me to mess about with the Matrox settings without losing the screen (essential)) - but it looks like the only way to get Catalyst working on it is via a hacky solution, so that's a no go.

As for the new board.. I might/could do that, although I've pretty much got this on working now using soft 15kHz, which was a little tricky at first (Thanks Shiori & Dawgz) until I got the second monitor up and running (I had a couple of occasions where I'd change the res using quickres which resulted in the screen rolling around, so I had to work out where the pointer was out of the 40 flickering pointers on screen to recover the previous settings - not much fun).

Here's a question: If I were to get a new board, and a decent card for it - which modern graphics card is the best for this sort of thing?

[Dawgz Rule]

If your plan is to use soft15khz, you actually want an older card with the older driver set.  I have a used computer store minutes from the house and periodically stop in and grab an ATI 4xxx card just to have a stash of cards for future use.  At $10 a pop you really can't beat it.  If you search the forums for soft15khz you will find a wealth of info on what cards are best for this. 

Alternatively, you can go with an ArcadeVGA card.    I am somewhat partial to the ArcadeVGA but both work well. 

[rCadeGaming]

Thanks rCade - It looks like CRT_Emudriver only works on ATI Catalyst stuff whereas the card I've got is a Matrox. Oddly enough, during my attemtps to get all of this working I found an old ATI Rage3d to use with a second monitor (enabling me to mess about with the Matrox settings without losing the screen (essential)) - but it looks like the only way to get Catalyst working on it is via a hacky solution, so that's a no go.

Is there a better GPU I could use for the type of CRT that's in the cabinet? I only ask as there's a computer fair on nearby (every saturday) where I could picj up pretty much any type of card, esp old ones - there's guys who have stalls there with boxes and boxes of old gear in them for sale for next to nothing...

-

Guys, Soft15kHz is really not the best option anymore. 

First of all, it's silly to use a real CRT and not use GroovyMAME, and that works hand in hand with CRT_Emudriver.  GM can generate resolutions on the fly to keep everything native res (and native refresh, very important), saving you a lot of work; and it has a lot of other important features for native res even if you don't use the auto-generation. 

Even if not using GM, tweaking your resolutions in Soft15kHz requires editing the text modelines by hand (super tedious), or using Powerstrip.  Powerstrip was not really designed for this application, it's very cumbersome, and does not even fit on the screen in lower resolutions.  CRT_Emudriver includes ArcadeOSD, which was purposely designed for this, is just as powerful if not more so, more flexible, and much easier to use.

Making the change only takes a couple of minutes once you have the right graphics card (which can be dirt cheap).  I started with Soft15kHz too, and resisted make the change because I had some GeForce cards on hand (only compatible with Soft15kHz).  When I finally switched over to CRT_Emudriver, I was really kicking myself for not doing it sooner.

Dawgz, did you mean to say CRT_Emudriver?  If you're picking up ATI 4XXX cards you already have the right video cards for it.

Here's a question: If I were to get a new board, and a decent card for it - which modern graphics card is the best for this sort of thing?

I use a fanless ATI HD4350.  It's as flexible as possible for resolution adjustment (no minimum dot clock), should be powerful enough for anything in MAME, and being silent is great in a cab.  It's very common and you can find it on eBay regularly for around $20.  I've been stockpiling them as Dawgz suggested.

If you want to run newer console emulators, Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, etc., you might need something faster.  An ATI HD4890 is the fastest card you can use with CRT_Emudriver (I don't think there's anything faster that works with Soft15kHz), but that's going to be more expensive, maybe $60-120.  You'll need a faster computer too.  I just stick to real hardware aside from MAME.

Those are both PCI-E cards.  If you're not upgrading the PC now, there are AGP cards that will work with CRT_Emudriver, just look through that list I linked to.  AGP cards will tend to be older though.

[Dawgz Rule]

Yes, my mistake.  Trying to do three things at once....none of which are really work related.

[zjqj]

Ah. Will Catalyst work with an ATI rage3D without a hacked driver?..

[rCadeGaming]

No, I was just confused why you were saying that was a problem when you had already said you could go get any card you want at this computer fair.

[zjqj]

Oh sorry. I thought it was in reference to the Rage card. Thanks again for all of your help and info though! 

I really want to check out CRT_Emudriver and GM, although I've got everything working ok now using soft15kHz and a much used Mame top 1000 (with lots of game assets, and fully audited), so I'm not sure what the benefits would be of setting everything up again, apart from that it would be easier to set up than soft15kHz.

Are there other benefits?

[dgame]

. . . Are there other benefits?

This:

...
Guys, Soft15kHz is really not the best option anymore. 

First of all, it's silly to use a real CRT and not use GroovyMAME, and that works hand in hand with CRT_Emudriver.  GM can generate resolutions on the fly to keep everything native res (and native refresh, very important), saving you a lot of work; and it has a lot of other important features for native res even if you don't use the auto-generation. 

Even if not using GM, tweaking your resolutions in Soft15kHz requires editing the text modelines by hand (super tedious), or using Powerstrip.  Powerstrip was not really designed for this application, it's very cumbersome, and does not even fit on the screen in lower resolutions.  CRT_Emudriver includes ArcadeOSD, which was purposely designed for this, is just as powerful if not more so, more flexible, and much easier to use.

Making the change only takes a couple of minutes once you have the right graphics card (which can be dirt cheap).  I started with Soft15kHz too, and resisted make the change because I had some GeForce cards on hand (only compatible with Soft15kHz).  When I finally switched over to CRT_Emudriver, I was really kicking myself for not doing it sooner.
...

[rCadeGaming]

There's no way you could have all of those games running already with properly adjusted size and centering, much less running at the right refresh rate. 

You are using DirectDraw right?  If you're still using Direct3D, it's just stretching things to fit in whatever resolution you're running, but that's not native resolution, it won't look that great if unevenly scaled.

Are you using triplebuffer, waitvsync, or syncrefresh?  If you're using triplebuffer, that's causing several frames of lag.  Syncrefresh is what you should be using for native resolutions, but it requires you to run games at their native refresh rate for proper game speed.  That takes time to set up for each game.  Or you could let GroovyMAME auto-generate it all for you.

If you think it's fine as-is, then enjoy it (at least make sure you're using DirectDraw and syncrefresh or waitvsync though, not Direct3D or triplebuffer).  As you learn more, you may find that you need to go further to get actual native resolution frame-for-frame emulation, without lag, tearing, sound stuttering, etc.

[zjqj]

Blimey. I'm suddenly in deep water. It simply didn't occur to me that each game would need its own video settings, presuming that if windows displayed clearly on the CRT then the games would just 'be right' when I fired them up.

I've checked out about 20 games so far using this presumption, thinking that unless the graphics looked like a mess then everything was fine. To my untrained eye, they all look pretty good - probably the most advanced game I have on the list that I tried as a benchmark was Soul Calibre, and my expectation was that it would work on such a low-end PC, but it did actually run, just a bit slow and the audio was choppy. Dig Dug, Phoenix, Robotron and all my other (similar aged) faves looked good to me, but I wonder now if they'd look better running via GM.

What visual issues should I be looking for just playing through a basic MAME as I am doing, compared to running it through GM? And will I need to do another audit if/when I do this?

[zjqj]

Meant to say - I'm running it on default settings so it think it's direct draw, and no triple buffering or sync stuff selected, but I'm not 100% about that right now (the cabinet's at work and I'm not) - I'll check after the weekend.

[rCadeGaming]

If you're using the default settings, then it's not even changing resolutions when you launch a game.  You're just looking at the game at the desktop resolution, probably 480i.  90% of the games in MAME have a native resolution around 240p, and will look a LOT better when run at the native resolution.

I think you need to start some reading.  Try the second link in my signature.