Raspberry Pi vs a 60 in 1 for a Cocktail Cabinet

[TheShaner]

So, I am doing a cocktail cabinet.  Maybe even a couple.  I have a 60 in 1 on order and that will do fine although I am a little disappointed that the mame version on these is old, that I cannot add more games, and the sound on a few games is junk.

With that said, I started digging for a programmable jamma to see if I could control the games I wanted on them and possibly update the mame version to something at least even remotely current.  No dice.  Those things are almost $300 and hard to find.

So now I am looking at RP.  It seems like it is a decent solution.  I have spent some time digging through threads and have seen that a lot of people consider it a little underpowered and premature.  Here is my question though... If you are simply comparing it to a 60 in 1 jamma, how does it fare?  It seems like it should be comprable as far as processing power goes.  If I am just planning on using it for a select number of games, mostly old school verticals and maybe a few horizontal games like asteroids and defender, wouldnt it be a better solution than the 60 in 1 since the mame version is a little more current and you can better control what goes on there?

[Nephasth]

What's wrong with using an old throw-away P4?

[yotsuya]

I have an Intel ATOM board in my vertical upright basically running the same games as the 60-in-1 with NO issues.

[Diet_Pepsi]

Atoms are great for running the classics, especially since a lot of them don't need a fan for cooling.  I have a setup with an atom d510, 32gb ssd and a pico power supply, and, I must admit, it is strangely satisfying to run it with zero background fan noise.

[Maximus]

I'm also interested in this conversation from an OS standpoint. Those of you running x86 chips are you running windows or do you have a much more dedicated software solution?

Also what about the Android 'stick' computers, they are shipping with 2gb of ram, quad core processors, mini usb and SD cards for under $100

[Diet_Pepsi]

I have not had to run any dedicated software solutions.  I am running win 7 64bit on all my machines with MAME .146.  For fun i tried it on my netbook, which has an AMD c-60 dual core running at 1.0 ghz.  I was shocked at what that thing can run.  Even stuff like metal slug and Batrider were running with no problems.

[Maximus]

I played with one of these sticks a while back at work to see if it had potential as a dumb terminal, since then they have gotten much more powerful, I'd be interested to see if I could load one of these up with MAME4Droid Reloaded 0.139 to start in menu mode and run the roms through a hacked together USB/Jamma converter of some kind

$62 buys you a lot of computing power these days...

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2013-new-arrival-in-May-QC802-Quad-core-Andriod-4-2-RAM-2GB-ROM-8GB-RK3188/106530_926348116.html

[Vigo]

Atoms are great for running the classics, especially since a lot of them don't need a fan for cooling.  I have a setup with an atom d510, 32gb ssd and a pico power supply, and, I must admit, it is strangely satisfying to run it with zero background fan noise.

Agreed. If you top that off with USB stick for a hard drive, you have sheer solid state bliss.

[jdbailey1206]

I'm surprised more guys aren't running these in mini cabs.

[Diet_Pepsi]

Wow. I guess if they are shipping these platforms inside mobile phones, why not in a stick computer?

I might have to pick one of these up and start testing...

I played with one of these sticks a while back at work to see if it had potential as a dumb terminal, since then they have gotten much more powerful, I'd be interested to see if I could load one of these up with MAME4Droid Reloaded 0.139 to start in menu mode and run the roms through a hacked together USB/Jamma converter of some kind

$62 buys you a lot of computing power these days...

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2013-new-arrival-in-May-QC802-Quad-core-Andriod-4-2-RAM-2GB-ROM-8GB-RK3188/106530_926348116.html

[mcseforsale]

This all sounds interesting.

In other words:

Subscribed.

AJ

[Diet_Pepsi]

Just picked up a dual core unit from amazon.  I'll get it on Tuesday, and we'll see what it can do.  Worst case I can use it with one of my TVs for streaming.

[TheShaner]

So the main point behind running one of these rather than an older pentium is several fold.  No moving parts, no need for a hard drive (if you are running rp since it uses a sd card), cheaper obviously, and no noise.  Since I am just looking to run the classics, nothing even remotely heavy (ie no outrun), it seems like it would be a better solution than the 60 in 1 card since I can load it with stuff of my choice.

If I was to do another full blown vertical cab, I would obviously need to get something with more horsepower, but galaxian and tetris can be run with minimal power under the hood I am assuming, so Im thinking the answer.

Now the question becomes, is it Raspberry Pi, or some other flavor along this vein.  I really dont want to have to hook up a solid state drive and all of that jazz, but I might consider it if the Pi doesnt work out.  I do really want to get away from moving parts though.

[TheShaner]

I have an Intel ATOM board in my vertical upright basically running the same games as the 60-in-1 with NO issues.

Does it require a fan?  How is the power handled?....

Nevermind, I just read the rest of the post.

[michelevit]

Maybe a time for stick computer FAQ or forum subsection.
As long as my builds have room for a mobo, powersupply and hardrive, I'll probally keep going that route. You can pick up P4s all day used for nothing. I'd like to build a micro console one day and then Rasberry Pi sounds XLNT.

[Maximus]

I wanted to grab one of the Android sticks for media center ideas too so I'll throw it all in the same bucket of testing.

I'm going to play with a Tronsmart MK908 Quad Core 2GB/8GB set up and see what it's like.

Tronsmart MK908 - $90
Mini-HDMI to VGA adapter - $10
ZD USB Keyboard encoder & wiring- $20

added the extras to the list so we can call it a real alternative for a MAME/CAB set up.

To mirror comments already covered here, an easy-on, non-windows solution, fanless and small but also with the ability to add your own games is really interesting. At the moment the quad core sticks are more expensive at around $90 but they will fall quickly in price so you could consider them more viable in a few months.

Currently a 60 game board with a decent Jamma Harness will cost you approx $75 shipped anyway

[TheShaner]

Maybe a time for stick computer FAQ or forum subsection.
As long as my builds have room for a mobo, powersupply and hardrive, I'll probally keep going that route. You can pick up P4s all day used for nothing. I'd like to build a micro console one day and then Rasberry Pi sounds XLNT.

Mich, as stated, I am not trying to replace the need for a motherboard, how in the hell would you play killer instinct?  Cant have that.  For a cocktail, or mini cabinet, the 60 in 1 jamma makes a lot of sense, but is just too dated.  But the allure of having a quick power on and boot, and practically dedicated software with no moving parts to break is hard to resist.  It would be nice to find something comparable though, in the relative price range, with roughly the same functionality, and the ability to update / tweak etc, and I think we are on the right track. 

I will buy something early next week after I get a little more input from those who have done this already and done a little research of my own.  MaxiGriff, I will make sure to do something different from what you are going to do so we can have a good comparison.

[paigeoliver]

Raspberry Pi is basically the worst possible solution you could come up with for a game cabinet, it is underpowered and requires a crap ton of adapters to even be used.

Here is the secret about good results with the common 60 in 1 board. Turn off all the 8-way games. The majority of the games on the board are 4-way or 2-way anyway, and those 8-way games happen to have almost all the serious sound and emulation problems that people always complain about.

If you absolutely need PC hardware and a small form factor I have found that Pentium 2 and Pentium 3 tablets can be had for under $100, and are small enough to slip into a bartop easily. Just make sure the model you get has VGA out (all the ones I have owned had that, but it never hurts to check).

[Rigby]

Raspberry Pi is basically the worst possible solution you could come up with for a game cabinet, it is underpowered and requires a crap ton of adapters to even be used.

Here is the secret about good results with the common 60 in 1 board. Turn off all the 8-way games. The majority of the games on the board are 4-way or 2-way anyway, and those 8-way games happen to have almost all the serious sound and emulation problems that people always complain about.

If you absolutely need PC hardware and a small form factor I have found that Pentium 2 and Pentium 3 tablets can be had for under $100, and are small enough to slip into a bartop easily. Just make sure the model you get has VGA out (all the ones I have owned had that, but it never hurts to check).

Pfft.  The RPi isn't bad at all, unless you want to drive an arcade CRT.

Is it an absolutely 100% accurate arcade emulation solution?  Not at all.  Is it a $30 arcade emulation solution?  yep.  Running MAME4ALL on there runs approximately 1500 games from the MAME 0.37u5 romset at full speed without any issues I can notice.  The midway 53hz games don't run full speed, but nearly everything else is perfect.  Pretty sure an i-pac will run on the RPi perfectly without any configuration.

If you've resolved to using an LCD, the raspberry pi is not a bad choice.

The board Maximus mentioned would run iMAME4All reloaded (0.139 romset) full speed, no problems whatsoever, almost certainly.

[TheShaner]

Raspberry Pi is basically the worst possible solution you could come up with for a game cabinet, it is underpowered and requires a crap ton of adapters to even be used.

Here is the secret about good results with the common 60 in 1 board. Turn off all the 8-way games. The majority of the games on the board are 4-way or 2-way anyway, and those 8-way games happen to have almost all the serious sound and emulation problems that people always complain about.

If you absolutely need PC hardware and a small form factor I have found that Pentium 2 and Pentium 3 tablets can be had for under $100, and are small enough to slip into a bartop easily. Just make sure the model you get has VGA out (all the ones I have owned had that, but it never hurts to check).

Underpowered compared to what?  Remember, the title of this thread is comparing this to a jamma board.  Those things cant have much power to them.   I understand we can get cheap PC's etc, but that is not the point here.  I want to run about 50 games of my choice on a newer .   Im trying to find another solution other than these crappy Jamma boards.  I dont mind an adapter or two if it gives me a better experience than the Jamma.

With that said, this is exactly what I had hoped would happen.  Opinionated conversations and debate from both sides on the subject! 

[Maximus]

My gear should appear some time next week so it will be fun to play with.  Also the other advantages of android and a wifi enabled 8gb platform will be interesting to explore.

[DHTech]

I've run PiMame with some classic games on my Pi Model B without issue, it's a great cheap little computer and capable of running a lot of games. it doesn't have a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- load of adapters to make it run, that is a very ill-informed opinion.
For £30 it's an inexpensive option to run classic games and really easy to setup, has hdmi, usb and Ethernet and runs from SD card which are easy to swap about.

[Sjaak]

Just wondering, does an IPac also work on a RP or an android stick?

[TheShaner]

I cant vouch for the stick, but I have read the ipac will work.  Its just an encoder.

[Maximus]

I imagine any usb encoder that replicates a keyboard will work ok.  I went with the ZD purely to keep the cost of experimenting down for now.

[Rigby]

I imagine any usb encoder that replicates a keyboard will work ok.  I went with the ZD purely to keep the cost of experimenting down for now.

Abe Froman, the sausage king of Chicago, is correct.

[mcseforsale]

AJ

[BobA]

Ben Heck put a Raspberry Pi in a handheld game case for some good MAME action. Should be easy to put it in a mini arcade or mini cocktail. Pi in a Game case

[DHTech]

Raspberry Pi works fine with an iPac2
You can overclock the Pi up to 1Ghz, although shortens the life.

[404]

So, I am doing a cocktail cabinet.  Maybe even a couple.  I have a 60 in 1 on order and that will do fine although I am a little disappointed that the mame version on these is old, that I cannot add more games, and the sound on a few games is junk.

With that said, I started digging for a programmable jamma to see if I could control the games I wanted on them and possibly update the mame version to something at least even remotely current.  No dice.  Those things are almost $300 and hard to find.

So now I am looking at RP.  It seems like it is a decent solution.  I have spent some time digging through threads and have seen that a lot of people consider it a little underpowered and premature.  Here is my question though... If you are simply comparing it to a 60 in 1 jamma, how does it fare?  It seems like it should be comprable as far as processing power goes.  If I am just planning on using it for a select number of games, mostly old school verticals and maybe a few horizontal games like asteroids and defender, wouldnt it be a better solution than the 60 in 1 since the mame version is a little more current and you can better control what goes on there?

If you absolutely must pick either one of the two, I would pick a Pi. The Pi, while grossly underpowered can play a hell of a lot more games than just 60 and there are dedicated emulation distros like PiMame that have tons of tools already packed together for you.

As others have mentioned here however, I would prefer to stick with a pentium 4 era box you can probably find for free or dirt cheap. It would emulate much more games than a pi and would only require only a  bit more time on the setup.

Then again, you mentioned just one or the other.

I'm also interested in this conversation from an OS standpoint. Those of you running x86 chips are you running windows or do you have a much more dedicated software solution?

Also what about the Android 'stick' computers, they are shipping with 2gb of ram, quad core processors, mini usb and SD cards for under $100

In my opinion, I still think that while linux would give users a more fluid and realistic look in terms of bootup and start times, nothing can beat windows in terms of user friendliness and most importantly, drivers.

I wanted to grab one of the Android sticks for media center ideas too so I'll throw it all in the same bucket of testing.

I'm going to play with a Tronsmart MK908 Quad Core 2GB/8GB set up and see what it's like.

Tronsmart MK908 - $90
Mini-HDMI to VGA adapter - $10
ZD USB Keyboard encoder & wiring- $20

added the extras to the list so we can call it a real alternative for a MAME/CAB set up.

To mirror comments already covered here, an easy-on, non-windows solution, fanless and small but also with the ability to add your own games is really interesting. At the moment the quad core sticks are more expensive at around $90 but they will fall quickly in price so you could consider them more viable in a few months.

Currently a 60 game board with a decent Jamma Harness will cost you approx $75 shipped anyway

The problem with those android and ARM based sticks is that while mame isn't necessarily optimized for a single cpu architecture, mame really isn't optimized for ARM processors.

Not to mentionandroid from a dedicated arcade perspective would require quite a few teaks just to make it look decent. You would not only have to tinker with Android in order to bypass the lockscreen, launcher etc. You would also have to worry about a frontend that would work and look fine on your cab.

[Maximus]

The front end is definitely the weak point at the moment for sure. As for the launching and startup tgat is easy enough. Ill be interesred to see what kind of performance we get from the 1.6Ghz quad chip as you are right about the code optimizations. 

Although also remember we are looking for something simply more versatile than the 60-in-1 solutions at a similar price point.

[Maximus]

Also unless you are planning to run linux on an x86 setup lets please not pretend Windows is free when we are trying to do like for like comparisons. Even an OEM copy of XP runs $120 so its a significant cost that shouldn't be ignored in a shootout

[paigeoliver]

Also unless you are planning to run linux on an x86 setup lets please not pretend Windows is free when we are trying to do like for like comparisons. Even an OEM copy of XP runs $120 so its a significant cost that shouldn't be ignored in a shootout

If you are trying to compete with the Pi then you don't need windows at all, FreeDos or a dos start disc will more than handle it since dosmame was developed for a hell of a lot longer than the 1998 era mame that was ported to the pi.

Also, basically every complete system sold in America comes with windows preloaded. An OEM copy of XP might cost $120, however you can purchase good used windows XP computers for well under $100. I spent all of 60 seconds browsing craigslist and I found XP systems cheaper than a pi that can run 95 percent of the mame catalog at full speed.

If you really think the Pi is good for mame then you are deluding yourself. I get tons of crap here for suggesting that mame .55 is a good emulator, while the mame .35 mame 4 all the pi runs is about 20 releases earlier than that.

[Maximus]

That's good to know I'm definitely interested in anything that can get rid of the Windows resource hogging monster

[DHTech]

If you really think the Pi is good for mame then you are deluding yourself. I get tons of crap here for suggesting that mame .55 is a good emulator, while the mame .35 mame 4 all the pi runs is about 20 releases earlier than that.

I don't think anybody is deluding themselves, the Pi can happily run the early arcade games, if those are what you're interested in then the Pi is ideal, I can certainly run more than the 20 games you suggest! The Pi may not be for you but please don’t trash something you obviously know little about.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

My gear should appear some time next week so it will be fun to play with.  Also the other advantages of android and a wifi enabled 8gb platform will be interesting to explore.

You shouldn't have any trouble. My buddy just got the MK908 last week, and it's rather stunning for these mini purposes. The plethora of cables take up more space than the actual unit!  I've been planning on getting one and doing a review for BYOAC for a month now, but Real Life got in the way! 

That said, my old-by-Android-standards Transformer TF101 (dual-core 1.0Ghz) can run just about everything in Mame4Droid Reloaded and runs everything else that's available in RetroArch - including PS1 games. The general rule of thumb I'm finding is this; if it has been emulated "properly" in Windows, and the Android port is good, you don't need a tremendous amount of raw Ghz to run any particular game.

What's really intriguing to me is that they've just recently got full-blown Ubuntu running on sticks with the same chipset: http://liliputing.com/2013/06/ubuntu-up-and-running-on-android-min-pcs-with-rk3188-chips.html

I'd LOVE to see how it handles with a full OS, with a fully featured version of Mame, and a graphical frontend running. (Cabrio maybe? ... I've only recently started dabbling in Linux.)

[404]

Also unless you are planning to run linux on an x86 setup lets please not pretend Windows is free when we are trying to do like for like comparisons. Even an OEM copy of XP runs $120 so its a significant cost that shouldn't be ignored in a shootout

If you are trying to compete with the Pi then you don't need windows at all, FreeDos or a dos start disc will more than handle it since dosmame was developed for a hell of a lot longer than the 1998 era mame that was ported to the pi.

Also, basically every complete system sold in America comes with windows preloaded. An OEM copy of XP might cost $120, however you can purchase good used windows XP computers for well under $100. I spent all of 60 seconds browsing craigslist and I found XP systems cheaper than a pi that can run 95 percent of the mame catalog at full speed.

If you really think the Pi is good for mame then you are deluding yourself. I get tons of crap here for suggesting that mame .55 is a good emulator, while the mame .35 mame 4 all the pi runs is about 20 releases earlier than that.

Have to agree with paigeoliver here on both parts.

It's difficult to grasp why anyone would opt for a pi as opposed to an old DOS compatible pc and simply use that to run advancemame and advancemenu as their frontend.

Same goes for your modern day PC. most of all of them contain an OEM copy of windows.

You shouldn't have any trouble. My buddy just got the MK908 last week, and it's rather stunning for these mini purposes. The plethora of cables take up more space than the actual unit!  I've been planning on getting one and doing a review for BYOAC for a month now, but Real Life got in the way! 

That said, my old-by-Android-standards Transformer TF101 (dual-core 1.0Ghz) can run just about everything in Mame4Droid Reloaded and runs everything else that's available in RetroArch - including PS1 games. The general rule of thumb I'm finding is this; if it has been emulated "properly" in Windows, and the Android port is good, you don't need a tremendous amount of raw Ghz to run any particular game.

What's really intriguing to me is that they've just recently got full-blown Ubuntu running on sticks with the same chipset: http://liliputing.com/2013/06/ubuntu-up-and-running-on-android-min-pcs-with-rk3188-chips.html

I'd LOVE to see how it handles with a full OS, with a fully featured version of Mame, and a graphical frontend running. (Cabrio maybe? ... I've only recently started dabbling in Linux.)

Linux and android aren't equals when it comes to emulation. Commercial android solutions has quite a number of advantages including better driver support, JIT and much more. Difficult to compare Android on a commercial rig as opposed to generally vanilla linux builds.

[paigeoliver]

I didn't suggest it only ran 20 games. I mentioned that the mame version that is used on the pi was 20 versions early than the antiquated version that is considered by some to be the first really good version. Pi runs mame 4 all, which is based on the 1999 era mame code, back when things were still pretty dicey and a lot of major titles still had major bugs.

Your two choices for video are composite, which lets face it, is awful, or HDMI, which pretty much ties you down to a widescreen display that is the incorrect aspect ratio.

If you really think the Pi is good for mame then you are deluding yourself. I get tons of crap here for suggesting that mame .55 is a good emulator, while the mame .35 mame 4 all the pi runs is about 20 releases earlier than that.

I don't think anybody is deluding themselves, the Pi can happily run the early arcade games, if those are what you're interested in then the Pi is ideal, I can certainly run more than the 20 games you suggest! The Pi may not be for you but please don’t trash something you obviously know little about.

[Chris John Hunter]

I think its harsh to slam a one board pc that costs just £30. That runs Mame and plenty of retro fun to be had. Raspberry Pi will soon be able to run Ice Cream Sandwich which has numerous builds of Mame. You could write your own front end and forego all the flash bang wallop of numpty ones like Hyperspin. It just has to be a easy to navigate menu. Anyone who thinks Mame needs a powerful pc your joking right? I'm using WinXP, Onboard GFX and sound with 512mb ram.You can write your own FE which is part of the point of Raspberry Pi
  -it was invented so British kids could learn to program in schools. Not to run Killer Instinct. It runs great when your working with a smaller monitor. A friend recently did a mini machine with a digital photo frame. Agree with DHTech. paigeoliver Your talking cobblers mate.
Check this out http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/tag/mame

If you want to play 'Classics' (60-1 range) no issues. And as it is Android based, you can use any controller setup you like. I would also like to point out, it is likely there will be a commercial edition released this year or next that will be used to fund the project further . That edition I would image to have 1GB onboard and if so, will be ideal.

Your only ever going to be running one game at a time! Its got HD video playback capacity.That guy has a full cab running off it. Only consideration is storage, and you have it. It doesn't have the overheads of running Windows bloatware either.

CJ

[shponglefan]

I think of one thing which is missing in this conversation is that there are different solutions for different situations.  There is no one single perfect be-all-and-end-all MAME solution.

For example, people have tossed out the idea of older pentiums.  But those have drawbacks such as increased power consumption, heat, size, incompatibility with newer storage devices, larger footprint, and so on.

On the other hand the Pi, while not the most advanced kid on the block is tiny, no moving parts, no heat issues, low power consumption.

It really comes down to what is more important to the person in question doing the build.  In the case of the OP, he specifically mentioned no moving parts.  So that mostly rules out an old P4.