Any D9200 owners running the linux CD?

[MonkeyJug]

if so, can you check flying shark/twin cobra?

i'm running my monitor horizontally, and i can't get alot of vertical shmups to go full screen, ie top to bottom (i like to keep aspect ratio so the sides will never be stretched out that far).  at full stretch, the screen is about 2 inches in from the top and bottom.
if i use the D9800 preset, i can't even get these games to sync...

another to check is dodonpachi - i can't get it to stretch full screen, but the D9800 preset allows me to go full-screen, unlike flying shark/twin cobra, where they won't sync.  at least ddp syncs using d9800 and looks gorgeous.

another example is dodonpachi doj.  D9200 selects an interlaced resolution and it looks like crap.  i can select to play this on D9800 preset and it selects a progressive res and looks fabulous.


i want to be able to run all games using the D9200 preset.  I'm pretty sure i could do this using a previous version of GA linux...

[Calamity]

Hi MonkeyJug,

The problem has nothing to do with the version of GA you're using. It actually is due to the new format for crt_range information in GroovyMAME. I had to port the old presets and unfortunately I don't have the means to test all monitors myself, so boundary cases will need to be confirmed by users who know what they're doing. Vertical games on horizontal monitors represent the typical boundary case.

Based on your report it seems your monitor does support the frequencies around 20 kHz, but not around 18 kHz. Setting up the ranges like this will add the intermediate 20 kHz range as required:

Code: [Select]

crt_range0  15250-16500, 49-61, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1  20500-21500, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 360, 0, 0
crt_range2  23900-24420, 49-61, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 384, 400, 0, 0
crt_range3  31000-32000, 49-61, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 448, 512, 0, 0
crt_range4  37000-38000, 49-61, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 512, 600, 0, 0

Add these ranges to mame.ini and use the "monitor custom" option to get the ranges working. Please report back.
 

[MonkeyJug]

much better calamity! thanks!

ddp doj is now showing in a progressive resolution.  also, flying shark is now almost perfect.  i can fill the screen top to bottom now (just about), but the left-right sides are now too wide.  i need to just trim them in a couple of centimeters, but don't have enough h-position left...

if it helps, i spoke to a guy at wells gardner called John Pruski.  here is our email exchange:

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Hi John,
 
I have just acquired a Wells Gardner D9200 arcade monitor.  The manufacture date is either June or July, 2005.  I don't have the exact date or the exact model number, but if it is important, I can get that for you later today.
 
I was hoping you could advise me as to whether it is safe to run this monitor at 800x600 resolution, as I have read that it is not officialy supported except for a few model revisions.
 
Also, I have it setup to run MAME in a cabinet (using a flavour of MAME called GroovyMame), and some of the games that I like to play are syncing at 20.4khz and 57hz.  According to the spec sheet, this places it outside the tolerance levels of the monitor (+/- 1.8khz) and I was wondering if it's possible that the monitor can display this safely, or am I likely to do  permanent damage.  The screen looks utterly beautiful at this frequency/refresh and I am tempted to keep playing it.
 
In short, I would like to know if the D9200 or any specific revision of it can handle the whole range of khz like the D9800 can...
 
Regards from Belfast,
 
Mark

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Hello Mark.
 
Yes if you can get me the exact model number of this monitor I can than send you a copy of its resolutions that it can run safely.

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Hi John,

The model number is WGM2792-U5FS04E.

Could you also let me know if it is capable of displaying the whole range of frequencies from 15-31, and if not, will running it at 20.4khz damage it...

Kind regards,

Mark

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Mark as you can see this model will operate at 800X600 and as for the 20.4khz you should have no problem with that frequency.

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Wow!  Great stuff!  Thanks a million, John.

I don't suppose you could forward the porch settings for the lower resolutions too?

Regards...

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Mark, here are the resolution for the D9800 which are the same as your D9200 version.

[MonkeyJug]

he sent me a couple of attachemnts of porch/pulse settings for d9200 and d9800.  i'm sure you already have them, but i can send them to you if you like...

[MonkeyJug]

double-post

[Calamity]

but the left-right sides are now too wide

Do you mean the black borders on the sides? So you want to make the visible image narrower?

Use the front/back porches to control the horizontal width. Higher values increase the borders, lower values increase the active picture:

crt_range1  20500-21500, 49-61, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 360, 0, 0

[MonkeyJug]

yeah, when i have reduced the h-size down as far as it will go (it's digital on a D9200), the image is still too wide...

i will try adjusting the porches - thanks.

[MonkeyJug]

i don't understand the difference between increasing the border and increasing the active picture.  i just tried reducing the values by 1.0 for both numbers highlighted in your post (in increments of 0.2) and i couldn't notice much difference.  i was worried about going too low in case i damaged my monitor, so stopped...

another thing that is puzzling me and i hope you can explain, is how come the resolutions are different from those on the 'monitor presets' thread?

eg: D9200 from 'monitor presets' thread is this:

monitor_specs0    15250-16500, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448

your line below (that i entered in mame.ini) is this:

crt_range0  15250-16500, 49-61, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576



why are the progressive mins and maxes different and which one is the correct one?

tia


edit:  also, the v-freq values are different. which ones are correct ones?

[Calamity]

Hi MonkeyJug,

Sorry but I still don't get what the exact problem is, a picture would help a lot. I understand the picture is too wide, ok, but considering these are vertical games it's not clear to me if the problem is just bad aspect ratio (games wider than supposed but still with black borders on the sides) or actually the active picture being cropped on the sides.

i don't understand the difference between increasing the border and increasing the active picture.

Well it's pretty simple: if you want to shrink the width of active picture on a monitor, you make the borders wider. If you want to make the active picture wider, you reduce the borders size. Active picture + borders = physical CRT width.

i just tried reducing the values by 1.0 for both numbers highlighted in your post (in increments of 0.2) and i couldn't notice much difference.  i was worried about going too low in case i damaged my monitor, so stopped...

Try a bit more I'm assuming you're operating on the 20 kHz crt_range1. Monitors don't break for using wrong horizontal porches, they break for using the wrong frequencies.

In case it wasn't clear, you need to *increase* the porches (borders) in order to reduce the width of the active picture.

another thing that is puzzling me and i hope you can explain, is how come the resolutions are different from those on the 'monitor presets' thread?

Yes, this is due to the new format that GroovyMAME uses. Unfortunately VMMaker still uses the old format so I left the old presets in that thread, and I'm sorry it's causing confusion, but I still need to update VMMAker to use the new ranges. Here's a brief explanation:


http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128879.msg1316985.html#msg1316985

- New format for defining custom monitor specs, now the -crt_range0-9 options are used. This is the most important change in this version from the user's point of view, as the existing custom definitions will need to be modified. Not big deal however, but make sure you understand how this works as it will guarantee your success with GroovyMAME. The usual timing values remain the same, but the line limiters are replaced by four values: ProgressiveLinesMin, ProgressiveLinesMax, InterlacedLinesMin, InterlacedLinesMax. These are used to easily define the upper and lower limits of the total logical resolutions GroovyMAME should allow, both for the progressive and the interlaced range. You may leave either one of the two ranges set as zero in case you do not want progressive or interlaced modes to be generated. So the current format is as follows:

Code: [Select]

-crt_range 0-9 HfreqMin-HfreqMax, VfreqMin-VfreqMax, HFrontPorch, HSyncPulse, HBackPorch, VfrontPorch, VSyncPulse, VBackPorch, HSyncPol, VSyncPol, ProgressiveLinesMin, ProgressiveLinesMax, InterlacedLinesMin, InterlacedLinesMax

[MonkeyJug]

hi calamity - thanks for the detailed reply (as always).  you really have too much patience!

i think my d9200 (later models) are pretty much a d9800 in all but name.  when i try the d9800 preset, some games are syncing perfectly at 18, 20.3 and 29khz so i know my monitor can handle those refreshes.  i have then amended some of the lines you listed as follows:

crt_range0  15250-16500, 49-61, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1  20500-21500, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 360, 0, 0
crt_range2  23900-24420, 49-61, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 384, 400, 0, 0
crt_range3  31000-32000, 49-61, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 448, 512, 0, 0
crt_range4  37000-38000, 49-61, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 512, 600, 0, 0

crt_range0  15250-18000, 49-61, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1  20000-21500, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 360, 0, 0
crt_range2  23900-24420, 49-61, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 384, 400, 0, 0
crt_range3  29000-32000, 49-61, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 448, 512, 0, 0
crt_range4  37000-38000, 49-61, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 512, 600, 0, 0


these settings seem to give MUCH better results using 'monitor custom' than the pre-defined D9200 preset.  at least for me...


could you paste up the settings that are being used for the D9800.  the ones in the 'monitor presets' thread are obviously obsolete...

[Calamity]

These are the settings for the D9800 currently in GroovyMAME:

crt_range0 15250-18000, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1 18001-19000, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.140, 0.191, 0.950, 0, 0, 288, 320, 0, 0
crt_range2 20501-29000, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range3 29001-32000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 384, 480, 0, 0
crt_range4 32001-34000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 480, 576, 0, 0
crt_range5 34001-38000, 40-80, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 576, 600, 0, 0

[MonkeyJug]

calamity, could you paste up the d9200 settings that are current in GA?

thanks

[Calamity]

These are the current settings for the D9200:

crt_range0 15250-16500, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1 23900-24420, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range2 31000-32000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 512, 0, 0
crt_range3 37000-38000, 40-80, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 512, 600, 0, 0

[MonkeyJug]

These are the current settings for the D9200:

crt_range0 15250-16500, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1 23900-24420, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range2 31000-32000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 512, 0, 0
crt_range3 37000-38000, 40-80, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 512, 600, 0, 0

thanks calamity - out of interest, is there meant to be a gap in the resolutions?

eg. 224-288, 320-384, 480-512?  there is a gap between 288/320 and 384/480...  is this correct?

in the d9800 preset, there are not gaps:

eg. 224-288, 288-320, 320-384, 384-480, 480-576, 576-600?

[Calamity]

thanks calamity - out of interest, is there meant to be a gap in the resolutions?

Yes, those presets define the monitor as "banded" multisync, where only a narrow range around 15, 25, 31 and 37 kHz frequencies are actually supported. This is the typical case of a tri-sync monitor like the Hantarex Polostar, where frequencies falling within the gaps are indeed unsupported.

By default we define the presets like this in GM, for security reasons. When a monitor is confirmed to have a continuous operational range, by direct testing, then we can create the ranges accordingly. This was the case of the D9800, as tested and figured out by bitbytebit.

VESA PC CRT monitors also behave like this, they may have an operational range of say 31-50 kHz, and any frequency in the middle is supposed to work. These are "true" multisync monitors (as opposed to "banded" ones). The D9800 seems to be one of these too, which is a panacea for MAME use.

[MonkeyJug]

crt_range0 15250-16500, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
crt_range1 23900-24420, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.148, 0, 0, 320, 384, 0, 0
crt_range2 31000-32000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 512, 0, 0
crt_range3 37000-38000, 40-80, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 512, 600, 0, 0

not that it matters too much, but there is a typo in the second line, which i have amended to the correct value in bold.  the value should read 1.148 and not 1.048...

if i wanted to experiment and get the ranges narrowed down, how would you suggest starting off?