Control Panel Layout and Configuration

[swirlee]

Hey friends,

So push buttons and joysticks are the last bit of hardware I need to purchase in order to finish my first MAME build and I have some questions concerning button count, layout and operator functionality.

First off I am a total n00b when it comes to this stuff so bare that in mind. Ok, so I'm sure you've all heard it a million times from other first time builders, but I want to make this thing as versatile as possible in order to play the widest range of games. One of the things I've been a bit confused by is the standard button count chosen by most of you. Seems like most MAME control panels I've seen have 6 buttons per player, but don't most modern fighters like SSFIV require at least 8?
I have and plan on playing these games, so isn't 8 the way to go?

Then there are operator buttons, I don't know if this is the preferred term for these, but I'm curious as to what the standard layout, functionality of these buttons are? This control panel layout seems to be one of the nicer full-featured designs:
Though I'm pretty sure I don't want to install a spinner or center joystick(this contradicts my earlier wish to play the widest range of games I know), I like the layout and functionality of the operator buttons that this design incorporates. I especially like how there is a right and left click button for the trackball to be used as a mouse when in windows. At least I think that's what it's for... having 2 sets seems redundant though.

I did a REALLY quick photoshoping of a layout I think will suit my needs:

Got rid of the spinner, center joystick, removed one set of mouse buttons and added 1 more button per player. There are a few things that still seem redundant in this design, like couldn't the player 1 start game button be used the same as the start game button in the emulation controls area, etc... What do you think, any potential problems with this layout/configuration? I doubt I would build it EXACTLY as this, but at least it gives me a button and controller count.
 

[darkSSide]

Buttons and right stick too close to tball

Sent from my Atari 2600

[Unstupid]

I have and plan on playing these games, so isn't 8 the way to go?

You can never have too many buttons*!

The only "operator" buttons I'd put on a CP would be the Pause and Exit button.  Those along with the standard coin and start buttons per player.  The Page Up/Down buttons can be mapped to a joystick left/right... The Setup and Option buttons can be pressed with an external keyboard and really, once set up you shouldn't need to be going back into those menus...  Also I wouldn't put the Pause and Exit buttons in line with the trackball... would be too easy to accidentally hit it when spinning the trackball too fast.

* You can have too many buttons!   

[swirlee]

@darkSSide

Don't take the EXACT placement of this concept. I merely found a design I thought to be the most functional/versatile and made some quick photoshop modifications to illustrate some of my questions and concerns. I'l have a lot more room to space everything out on my actual control panel. This is the cab I am working with:


@Unstupid

Yeah that's kind of what I want to figure out... whats the most versatile and elegant layout, minimizing buttons to have a nice clean control panel...

[darkSSide]

@darkSSide

Don't take the EXACT placement of this concept. I merely found a design I thought to be the most functional/versatile and made some quick photoshop modifications to illustrate some of my questions and concerns. I'l have a lot more room to space everything out on my actual control panel.

Oh I gotcha. But on your control panel you have enough room to put a dedicated 4way and still look good.
I don't know about you but Pac Man,Dig Dug,Burgertime,Donkey Kong and Popeye just to name a few sucks playing with an 8way.

Sent from my Atari 2600

[Le Chuck]

Plenty of good 4way/8way sticks out there, even some that do the switching for you on the fly.  Groovy Game Gear and Ultimarc both have one. 

[Hambo3]

You gotta get your game list up front and work it out from there. Whilst an 8 buttons should be enough, no game has more than 8 (I believe), the layout is important.
For example, the 8 button layout as below wouldn't work for Williams Defender, or Asteroids without compromise.

[yotsuya]

If you plan to have guests play your cab, leave off any MAME setup buttons unless you're going to hover over the machine like a vulture. "What's this do?" will ultimately turn into "Hey, none of these buttons work the way they are supposed to!!!" People love to push buttons.

[paigeoliver]

I see no need to go past the capcom layout, unless you or one of your buddies is a Neo Geo fighting game enthusiast who learned on a real machine.

If you put any admin buttons on your panel other than coins then your players will quickly render your cab nonfunctional. I won't even put them as button press combinations as I know from experience that if you put 2 kids on a machine with an impossible button press combo to pull up the mame config then they will find it in under 15 minutes, activate it and proceed to ruin the default config trying to get back out of it.

I hide both the setup button and the game exit button under the control panel where no one can see them.

[BadMouth]

Seems like most MAME control panels I've seen have 6 buttons per player, but don't most modern fighters like SSFIV require at least 8?
I have and plan on playing these games, so isn't 8 the way to go?

SSFIV in the arcade only has six buttons. 
The extra buttons allowed on the home console versions register the same as pressing a combination of the other buttons to make doing special moves easier.


Some people add a 7th button on the lower left not because a game utilized 7 buttons, but to keep the button layout similar to what was on the original arcade game.
Mostly the run button in Mortal Kombat 3:


and the Neo Geo four in a row:


The games are just as playable with six buttons in a rectangle, especially if you haven't spent a lot of time playing them on the real machines.


As far as admin buttons go, I don't like having anything but an exit button.  A pause is nice, but won't work on every emulator.
The first button on P1's side launches the games.  I've found that my guests instinctually go for that one. 
Originally I had P1 start launch the game and it had to be explained to them.

I have a wireless keyboard and mouse if I need to do anything else.  Other people don't need to use save states and such.

[mcseforsale]

Knievel CP layout FTW.  (I know, I know...I'm always saying that)



AJ

[swirlee]

Thanks for all the great info guys. I never thought about people pressing all the admin buttons and screwing up my settings. I don't have to worry about kids playing this thing, just drunk adults maybe haha. My place tends to be a popular pre-gaming spot among my friends, being I have so many toys like this and live by all the bars downtown LA haha.

So if I was to add these admin buttons listed you think I would be all set? :

Player 1
P1 Insert Coin

Pause Game
Exit Game

Player 2
P2 Insert Coin

Then on the back of the cab or someone I would hide my power switch that I have to wire to my laptop that is running the show.

Still on the fence about whether or not to do 6 or 8 buttons, but I think I'm leaning 6 now. Control panel will be less cluttered. Weird that almost every arcade controller for consoles and PCs has 8 buttons if they're not used.


4 way vs 8 way joysticks eh? I guess I didn't pay attention there was such a thing. Whats the pros and cons of either? I think I'll be playing mostly 8-16bit era games on this thing, but I also want to do some Dreamcasting and some SSFIV arcade editon and maybe some BlazBlue.

[Dawgz Rule]

Buttons really depends on what you want to play.  I actually prefer a seven button layout because it allows both a neo-geo layout and a traditional fighter layout.

[darkSSide]

I wouldn't put a dedicated escape button or it will be accidentally pressed while playing:o Just map out a combination like pause+player1 button to escape.

Sent from my Atari 2600

[darkSSide]

Buttons really depends on what you want to play.  I actually prefer a seven button layout because it allows both a neo-geo layout and a traditional fighter layout.

Exactly this

Sent from my Atari 2600

[mcseforsale]

I put the power switch on the front where rugrats can reach it:



AJ

Thanks for all the great info guys. I never thought about people pressing all the admin buttons and screwing up my settings. I don't have to worry about kids playing this thing, just drunk adults maybe haha. My place tends to be a popular pre-gaming spot among my friends, being I have so many toys like this and live by all the bars downtown LA haha.

So if I was to add these admin buttons listed you think I would be all set? :

Player 1
P1 Insert Coin

Pause Game
Exit Game

Player 2
P2 Insert Coin

Then on the back of the cab or someone I would hide my power switch that I have to wire to my laptop that is running the show.

Still on the fence about whether or not to do 6 or 8 buttons, but I think I'm leaning 6 now. Control panel will be less cluttered. Weird that almost every arcade controller for consoles and PCs has 8 buttons if they're not used.


4 way vs 8 way joysticks eh? I guess I didn't pay attention there was such a thing. Whats the pros and cons of either? I think I'll be playing mostly 8-16bit era games on this thing, but I also want to do some Dreamcasting and some SSFIV arcade editon and maybe some BlazBlue.

[BadMouth]

I like the power button on top or on the angled part of the top because that's where the switch was on the one real machine I've owned.
Reaching up there adds a little extra "real arcade machine" feel to it for me.

8 ways will work ok for casual play of 4-way games.  The issue is that in a game that used 4-way sticks, if you spend too much time in the corner where say both left and down are being pressed at the same time, the game may react differently (or not at all) to your intended move.  4-way sticks don't allow 2 switches to be pressed at the same time, at least not for very long.  I notice it most in Donkey Kong with Mario seemingly stuck at the top of the ladders as if I tried to change direction before he was all the way up or occasionally pacman will miss a turn I thought I timed correctly.  If you take the games seriously it's an issue.  If you play them for two minutes and move on to the next one, you probably wouldn't notice.

I wouldn't put a dedicated escape button or it will be accidentally pressed while playing:o Just map out a combination like pause+player1 button to escape.

Sent from my Atari 2600

I disagree.  It's easier for guests and it won't get pressed while playing if it's not located near the action buttons.
To each their own though.

[mgb]

Weird that almost every arcade controller for consoles and PCs has 8 buttons if they're not used.

I believe that's because those controllers will also work with consoles.
Look at a ps controller, it has 4 front buttons plus 4 shoulder buttons (not to mention, 2 triggers on the analogs)

As far as 4 and 8 ways go, definitely study that aspect if you plan on playing any old school classics such as donkey kong or frogged.

If you plan on playing dream cast, you'll miss out any game that used analog

[mcseforsale]

I like having the dedicated 4-way....with only 2 buttons.  it makes playing games like DK, Galaga, etc. much more enjoyable for me.

delusional29 has a good take on 4-way/8-way machines...his has one of each and depending on the game chosen, the controls are swapped between them.



AJ

[Dawgz Rule]

I have my admin buttons on the CP itself and thus far it hasn't caused any issues.  I also opted for dedicated trackball buttons which doesn't appear to be the norm.  In both cases, I thought it would be easier for a casual user to understand how to use the cabinet.  I just tell people to navigate with the trackball and dedicated buttons.  I show them pause and escape and away they go.  CPWizard tells them the rest. 

 I also have a tab and enter on my CP but I  chose black buttons so they are "hidden" in the black background of the CP and people have never touched them....even with alcohol.  I will say that now that the cabinet is configured that these are rarely used but do come in handy from time to time.

[darkSSide]

I wouldn't put a dedicated escape button or it will be accidentally pressed while playing:o Just map out a combination like pause+player1 button to escape.

Sent from my Atari 2600

I disagree.  It's easier for guests and it won't get pressed while playing if it's not located near the action buttons.
To each their own though.
[/quote]
Well your going to have to tell "guests" how to pick a game and start the game,you can easily tell them how to escape. Your always going to get that "guest" who wants to press every button while some one is playing to joke around. This way at least they can't escape your game with a touch of a button.
 I agree on the power button on top of cab or behind the cab.
Sent from my Atari 2600

[zvar]

That layout was made by motorfish, and at one time he offered a download in psd format with layers to make it easy to customize.  I never could find that exact one, but I did find another one made by AceTKK that he even admits is heavily borrowed from motorfish.  I personally like it better and you may want to check it out.  All labels are separate layers.  All graphics are separate, simply select which layers you want and discard the rest.

Here's the pic of it:


And the download is at:
http://www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Miscellaneous/FinalOverlay.psd

--Steven

[mcseforsale]

The only problem I've had with shifted buttons is that my escape is Player1 and Player2...so if both kids are mashing on TMNT and they both die, they exit the game.  I might put another sequence in there.

AJ

[mgb]

The only problem I've had with shifted buttons is that my escape is Player1 and Player2...so if both kids are mashing on TMNT and they both die, they exit the game.  I might put another sequence in there.

AJ

Yeah, that's not the best combo.
I use to have a similar combo for exit and it ended up with a lot of premature game exits.
I use pause and coin 1 now. It works well for escape.

[TKW4rr10r]

This info is great and perfect timing too! I'm getting a post together for my first personal project -  an X-Men 6 player restore and mod. I plan to have a swappable custom CP for a hyperspin setup, and with a CP 4' wide and around 2'+ deep, the options are getting overwhelming.   

I was also thinking of going the 8 button layout for 4 players originally - 2 rows of 4 slightly arched buttons, think Neo-Geo newer layout x2. But are there any games that REQUIRE an 8 button layout? I may still go this route for any other emulator play, just curious which actual cabinet games ever had an 8 button layout.

[shponglefan]

^ AFAIK, there isn't any point to more than 6 buttons for Player 1 & 2 (or 7 if you are going the NeoGeo/Capcom hybrid setup) and 4 buttons for players 3 & 4, just for arcade games.

[Brian74]

I will be going 8 buttons on my cp. That is because I will be play ps3 and Xbox 360 in my cab.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[mamenewb100]

Here's the pic of it:

Overall I think your layout is very slick looking. I like the seven button layout with the Neo-Geo config.

From experience I would recommend against having Admin controls that bring up BIOS/MAME settings on the Front of the Control Panel because you WILL end up hitting these buttons during a game. Even if it seems like there is no way you could hit them by accident, you will using a trackball. It will ruin your game or at least someone else will by accident. Easy solution is to put your menu buttons on the SIDE of the control panel. It will be much less likely you will ever bump them by accident.

You may run into problems with the 4-way stick when using the trackball. You may be ok if your at least 6 inches out from the trackball. Otherwise make sure you get the shortest stick possible. I'd get a Japanese style stick that has tight controls as well because those work much better for 4-way games than American bat style in my opinion. I can also see the mouse buttons being a problem on the left side of the control panel. There is really no reason to have 2 sets of mouse buttons. Just eliminate the player1 side of mouse buttons and you can play worry-free with the 4-way stick.

You also want to make sure your joystick and buttons are not too close to the bottom. You'll want to have enough room to rest your wrist or it won't be very comfortable. Just my 2 cents. 

[mrhappydude]

Thanks for posting the photoshop file here I used it for my control panel .

[mrhappydude]

Just wanted to add the side art I did for that control panel...

[leapinlew]

Anything above the trackball will get hit when playing trackball games. I don't put anything above mine.

[kerz007]

I love this layout and am looking everywhere for the PSD file so I can tweak a couple of things.

Are you willing to share this by chance?

[alexkyriak]

Just wanted to add the side art I did for that control panel...

Amazing side art!! Respect.

[danielm7999]

Nice!

[DrWoo]

I know this is an old topic, but I love the original Motofish work.  Anyone have the original source file, I'm assuming PSD?