Lightgun Recoil Circuit

[bimm25e]

Hey everyone I have a 24V solenoid and a 24V power supply and I have a namco recoil gun.  I was the gun to recoil when I pull the trigger, which is easily accomplished with a relay, BUT, I want the recoil to then burst like an automatic if the trigger is held, at a rate of about 2-3 slaps per seconds.  Can anyone help out me with the right circuit?

[Fursphere]

I'm thinking that a Pinball pop-bumper controller board would do the trick.

Gottlieb System 80 board - its a solid state circuit that has a trigger circuit and a high voltage circuit.

http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/RotDogBoards.html

For $18 - its hard to beat.

[Howard_Casto]

Just for the record, this is probably the wrong forum to post this. 

[BadMouth]

Somebody draw this guy a 555 circuit. 

Actually EpicFatigue did this and posted a circuit here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,131026.msg1342698.html#msg1342698

It also auto fires on games that did not have the feature.
Ruins the old games if you ask me....

[Fursphere]

It also auto fires on games that did not have the feature.
Ruins the old games if you ask me....

Does the Aimtrak module have a way to hook into MAME and only be enabled for games that support it?  Or is that a mamehooker / ledwiz hack?

[BadMouth]

It also auto fires on games that did not have the feature.
Ruins the old games if you ask me....

Does the Aimtrak module have a way to hook into MAME and only be enabled for games that support it?  Or is that a mamehooker / ledwiz hack?

Neither.  It's a function of his circuit.

[bimm25e]

Hey all thanks for the replies, ive been talking to epicfatigue about his circuit, the problem is that his is for an aimtrak and mine is for a stock namco arcade gun.  I have purchased some relays (5V trigger, 24V circuit) and I was thinking those hooked up regularly would make the solenoid close while im holding the trigger.  What I'd like if the trigger is held is a series of "snaps" (think, area 51 when you get the auto-rifle, one trigger hold shoots multiple bullets). 

I found some writeups where  a capacitor is reccommended and you use the cap's charge time to determine the length of pulse,


I found some writeups that say hooking 2 relays in a circuit where the one relay is wired through the normally closed so when the switch is activated it turns itself off immediately after


are either of these ideas viable?  If i have a 24VDC/ 4.5A Power supply, and want the "pulsing" to occur while the trigger microswitch from a JAMMA board is held what would be the best way to get a 40-60ms pulse to repeat itself as long as my finger is on the trigger?

[DaOld Man]

I think a 555 would be your best bet.
If you just want a single pulse when you fire, using a NC/NO switch and a capacitor may be all you need.
Of course if you want to fire the solenoid, you will need a transistor to turn it on. (With a diode for surges.)
You can place an opto-isolator in parallel with the solenoid to provide a trigger for the electronics that register a gun shot. (This is not drawn on the pic below, but I can add it if you're interested.)

EDIT: fixed a couple of mistakes in the drawing.

[bimm25e]

I think a 555 would be your best bet.
If you just want a single pulse when you fire, using a NC/NO switch and a capacitor may be all you need.
Of course if you want to fire the solenoid, you will need a transistor to turn it on. (With a diode for surges.)
You can place an opto-isolator in parallel with the solenoid to provide a trigger for the electronics that register a gun shot. (This is not drawn on the pic below, but I can add it if you're interested.)

EDIT: fixed a couple of mistakes in the drawaing.

I like this setup, but I'm wondering could I replace the transistor with a 5V relay? Would this eliminate the need for the diode and resistors?  If i used the opto-isolator would that allow me to only "burst" when the gun is pointed at the screen?  I think that would be ideal but I have concerns about interfering with the optical sensor circuit in any way because accuracy is a higher priority than recoil.
 the parts I already have are:

2x (1 for each gun) - 5V actuated relay (with NO/NC outputs)
2x (1 for each gun) - 24V actuated relays (NO/NC)
2x breadboards
24VDC 4.5 A laptop power supply
10x - 24V diodes
2x (1 for each gun) - 24VDC 4 amp "Pull" solenoids.


to reiterate this is NOT for an aimtrak module its for a stock NAMCO recoil gun, so the only 4 wires I have to work with are

GND
+5V
Trigger
Optical Sensor

[DaOld Man]

I like this setup, but I'm wondering could I replace the transistor with a 5V relay?

You might be able to, the only problem may be that since the relay draws so much more current than the transistor and resistors would, you will need a bigger capacitor to get the same amount of pulse. But size constraints may not be a problem?
Since you already have the parts, try it.

[epicfatigue]

Hah my circuit is popping up everywhere.

I personally think a relay might be to slow.
And if it wasnt relays were not intended to be used as constantly as this would be it would more then likely burn out after awhile.

As i mentioned in e-mail the way to do this is program a small PIC, when it gets a ground value send a 5v 40ns pulse to pin x connected to a  PNP transistor that would pull it to trigger the recoil.

If ground is received for more then 50ms  loop above statement
You can go a step further and at a opti pin so all of this can only operate if its pointed at the screen.


But thats my 2cents


As above this circuit of mine wasn't made for games that were not designed for it. It was actually made for playing counterstrike with Recoil guns.
Which is the most fun i have ever had on a arcade.

[bimm25e]

Hmm... So i've been thinking more and more about this and I think the way to go would be with a 5v/24V transistors, 555 timer, a small capacitor and potentiometers instead of resistors, that would allow me to make changes to the speed of the pulses and time between pulses without buying and swapping between a buttload of resistors, right?   Lets say I just want one pulse per pull, the smei-auto mode if you will, does anyone know how would I accomplish that with a circuit?  Is that just the capacitor and resistor in line running a transistor?

[epicfatigue]

Bimmie i am very confused in what you are asking.

If you are talking about changing the timmer circuit dont!
As simple as the ciruit is alot is going on there mate when i built it i read about it for a week and understood what it was i was doing.

If you want to change the speed of the pulse's thats easy use a trim pot. (variable resistor)

Hold the trigger and turn it till you like the speed then simple pull it out and solder in that value, or keep the trim pot.

My advise to you is trail and error, and read and learn about what you want to do.
Electronics is very fan and nice and easy to learn.

[bimm25e]

Yeah the problem is still that I am not using the aimtrak like everyone else seems to be.  I'll have to use the signal generated by the JAMMA button  (the trigger that i'll be pressing) to create my control signal. 

Ideally I want to be able to toggle between a semi and full auto recoil
-I do NOT want to alter the operation of the trigger in any way, one pull = one pull
-I only have the trigger switch to work off of
-I want to be able to adjust the speed easily so I can set it appropriately without too much effort

it seems (to me, im not a pro at this by any means) like 2 circuits with a toggle selecting which circuit to use would be the way to go. 

One circuit (single burst) could be controlled by just a small capacitor and a resistor, with a way to drain the cap when the trigger circuit is not closed (or normally closed as it were). - this seems to be illustrated by daoldman above quite nicely except it looks like that circuit is using 24v throughout and I would have a low voltage control with a seperate 24v driving the solenoid.


the other circuit (auto burst) could incorporate a 555 with variable resistors so I can play with the burst length/pause between bursts and match it up with the automatic fire in Area 51.

I dont know the voltage on a jamma button but I would use transistors to allow that voltage to control the 24V circuit i need to power the solenoid.  My concern about the transistors is that I don't yet fully understand how 2 circuits are controlled by only 2 pins, this is where I'm at in my "weeks of reading" right now (haha i know that probably seems basic to you all but i did my crash course on relays so far so today is day 1 on transistor research.)

the reason my crcuit logic steps away from yours is that i don't have the nice aimtrak recoil control output, I have to operate off of trigger pulls only.

[epicfatigue]

Ill send you a pm