Mission Control Project: 5 years on, what to do with the leftovers?

[armax]

thanks for the PM quarterback.  You're a class-act and I appreciate the clarification!  Thank you for not stooping low and flaming me on here.  I guess this thread is exception to the rules for many reasons since y'all have been keeping up with this since 2003.  I'll tell ya, this is quite a project.  And I thought my modular, rotating cab was going to be complicated....  The final product should be truly amazing.

[MameMaster!]

....this is such a great project....I can't wait until my grandkids see it!... (I just hope I'm still alive myself by then!).

 
MameMaster!
PS- Keep up w/the progress pics....this is definitely an over the top cool project that's been fun to follow!

[Pixelhugger]

.... Move it from concept to reality and you'll kill everyone out there...    And I thought my modular, rotating cab was going to be complicated....

Modular and rotating! Then it will be complicated. I am beginning to feel that people are overcrediting the actual ground broken by my project. While I do think it will be very impressive from an aesthetic point of view, (and certainly for it's overbranded "production game that never was" feel) as I said before there are a lot of projects that blow mine away from an engineering standpoint. My hat is off to anyone who builds a rotating CP or monitor.  I may be bending plastic with fire but it's only to acheive a look I loved as a kid. There is little in the way of actual engineering that is new - from a functional standpoint.

That said, I can't tell you all how much your feedback gets me excited for all this. Back on page one I expected a much more mixed reaction to the cab, so I am thrilled that people are following along with interest.

[Pixelhugger]

Well, I bent the second marquee panel last night. In order to ensure that the two panels "spoon" perfectly together, I bent the outer panel on top of the inner panel - to follow it's contour. I ended up with a beautifully straight and perfectly angled bend. When I went to click pics of the detail, however, I was horrified to find the bend was about 3/4" off of the panel below. It literally bent in mid air, by an even offset, on both sides. Man, that was a low moment.

I'm guessing that the wood strip I clamped along the edge to help reduce bowing acted as a sort of heat sink or shield keeping the plastic from heating enough along the fulcrum for the bend. Further complicating the bend is the fact that I can only heat from beneath up to, but not past, the fulcrum. In any case it was a spectacularly disappointing lesson. I repeated the bend with a piece of 3/16" scrap with no wood strip and it flattened perfectly across the bottom sheet. Sooooo... I'll have to redo this tonight/tomorrow with a new piece of 3/16." The quarter inch stuff is just to hard to evenly heat.

On the bright side, I got some coffee table book photos of the fire by killing the camera flash. Small consolation for me as I lost a $30 piece of plexi.

[Pixelhugger]

The setup. Foil wrapped "inner" panel with the "outer" panel clamped on top.

[Pixelhugger]

Imminent failure.

[Pixelhugger]

The heat sink.

[Pixelhugger]

Wait a second..... DOH!!! AAAARRRRRGH!!!!

[nostrebor]

Pixel, You are absolutely right about the wood heatsink. I use wood to help control exactly where the heat goes when bending plexi. It can be quite helpful for concentrating the heat into a small area, to force a tight radius without the "pooch" effect that plexi can get when flame bending.

You may have to "slip" the sheet you are working on to force the radius to fall in the right place. If you get the first bend to nest tightly, you can slip the sheet toward/away from the second bend, thus shortening/lengthening the flat space between sheets. you just reposition and clamp(well!)

 I personally have never had good luck bending one sheet over top of another. If I'm making nesting sheets, I bend them seperately, using the measure and hope technique Unfortunately this bending stuff is more art than science.

[Pixelhugger]

That is INCREDIBLY helpful! Man, you just never know what someone else's valuable experience is. Case closed on the relevance of random musings. Just wish I'd heard this $30 ago.  In thinking about it I was beginning to doubt it was a heat sink effect, and thought it was just due to the thickness of the 1/4 stock and the fact I couldn't heat beyond the fulcrum.. so that is great to know.

Luckily the 3/16" stuff softens broadly enough to let me mold (mould?) it to the panel beneath, since I don't think I could ever measure and have a hope to get it right.

That slip technique is clever. If I'd have double checked my work after the first bend I could have saved that sheet. Live and learn.

[DrewKaree]

So the jig should have been for the smaller inner piece and then bend the larger outer piece around that?

Would that possible work?

Nevermind.  After re-reading, I realize that's exactly what you were doing...color me dense   So now you're gonna have a quarter inch and a three sixteenths piece sammich?

What about bending a cheap piece of sheetmetal and forming the quarter inch around that?

[Chris]

Well, the purpose of the inner piece is solely to hold te marquee translite against the outer piece (or vice versa) so only one of the pieces really needs the structural integrity of the 1/4" thickness.  Heck, I would think 3/16" would be sufficient for a marquee.

[shmokes]

I have always ragged on wood-grain cabs.  This cab makes makes me say, "Just kidding about all that."

Impressive.

[nostrebor]

That is INCREDIBLY helpful! Man, you just never know what someone else's valuable experience is. Case closed on the relevance of random musings. Just wish I'd heard this $30 ago.  In thinking about it I was beginning to doubt it was a heat sink effect, and thought it was just due to the thickness of the 1/4 stock and the fact I couldn't heat beyond the fulcrum.. so that is great to know.

Luckily the 3/16" stuff softens broadly enough to let me mold (mould?) it to the panel beneath, since I don't think I could ever measure and have a hope to get it right.

That slip technique is clever. If I'd have double checked my work after the first bend I could have saved that sheet. Live and learn.

After re-reading my post this morning, I realized that I left out some info...

When I am using wood for a heat sink, I'm not using a flame. (obviously, the wood would catch fire, unless wrapped in foil, which somewhat defeats the sink ) I use a heat gun for thin stuff, and a "heat tape" made for bending plastics for the thicker stuff. (I normally do not need or use wood sinks when using the tape.) The thin stuff is actually harder to bend, as the bends tend to "follow" the shape of the heat line. If the heat line is not straight, the bend will have a dip or swell, and it's off to the trash with your piece Usually I make "bucks" to bend around and clamp wood to the top side at the bend to form a narrow channel. This forces the heat into a straight line, and concentrates it.

Your fulcrum comment actually is probably more of the reason that the bend fell in the wrong place. The center of the heat spread will define where the center of the bend occurs. This is why the "heat tape" works so well. The bend always falls in the center of the width of the tape. If you were heating from the bottom, the center of the heat was probably not centered over the other bend.

Linkage to US Plastic page with mentioned "heat tape" AKA plastrip heater

http://tinyurl.com/cksaq

This tool is the "stuff" for no worry bending.

Dave.

Edit: I keep thinking of stuff to add. I'm done now.

[Pixelhugger]

Nostrebor-

[Pixelhugger]

shmokes -  Yeah, a lot of people react negatively to the concept of wood when in reality what they are reacting to is really a plywood or grain issue as you and Drew pointed out in the furniture-esque thread. I was about to quote that stuff here for you and then I realized it was you that posted it in the first place. BTW that was a really funny post. Points one and three cracked me up.

Chris - yeah 1/4" is overkill. I'm the guy that put in 20 or so 12" diameter pier footings for a 9 x12 garden shed.

DK - not sure what the sheet metal would do  but yeah, it'll be a 7/16" sammy.  Pretty thick... see response to Chris above.

mamemaster - hehe  I just hope I can finish it while people still remember arcade - how do you say.... cabinets. I think it's lost on my nieces and nephews.

[nostrebor]

<snip>

I don't really need two perfectly nested panels at all. While the outer panel needs to be a single piece with perfect bends, the rear panel can be formed with three individual pieces cut and aligned to fit, as long as they don't generate a shadow at the seams. I was fumbling around with this idea in damage control panic mode last night and it seems to make sense. Reading Chris' clarification about structural integrity validates it.

<snip>

You better do a test before commiting to 3 pieces. If you have a hard line in the plastic, it "should" throw a shadow. I've never tried what you are trying, but I would expect it to happen, especially at 3/16" thickness. Plexi/Lexan diffuses light quite well along a hard edge. Flame polishing the edges will help a bit, but probably not enough.

If you go the 3 piece route, you might experiment with a steep bevel on the edges at the bends. Think of a funnel. This would put the hard edge away from the front edge and might let the light get in/diffuse more evenly.

In reality, I expect that most of the outcome will depend on the quality/transparancy of your print in the middle.

Do you have any 1/8" plexi to experiment with? That might be a good route for the back piece. It's *much* easier to work with when forming complex non-showing shapes. Just watch the heat, as it will bubble exponentionally faster. you could easily heat it just from the top side.

Dave.

[Pixelhugger]

"Who are you who is so wise in the ways of plastic!!"

[Pixelhugger]

...and to continue the OT movie references -

Looks like I inadvertantly channeled Episode 3 in that torch pic. Hehe- hope that doesn't spoil anything for anyone.

"If you bend me down, I shall become more frustrating than you can possibly imagine..."

[nostrebor]

"Who are you who is so wise in the ways of plastic!!" *lifts visor for better view*  

Thanks for the response. Now I can finally time my work AFTER your advice!

I'm actually hoping that any shadow will be obscured by the heavy stock the marquee will be printed on. Initially I wanted a diffuser in case I would be using a real translite material, but since the marquee will almost certainly be printed by mamemarquees, it'll actually be quite a bit more "solid."

Still though it's making me nervous. Do you think 1/8" will be stiff enough to keep the marquee from buckling/sagging? Guess it warrants another test. 

My problem is that maybe I am not completely it the light on how this thing goes together. Assuming that the 1/4"+marquee print+1/8" plexi are sandwiched together and then trapped in a groove or by some other method, I think you could stand on the edge without buckling the marquee. 1/4" acrylic is *quite* strong on edge. If you capture the 1/8" in a groove, especially a 3-sided bent piece, it will be plenty rigid. On my cabinet (2) 1/8" plexi's sandwich my print, and are captured at the two long edges. I would have to put all my weight against the assembly to move it.

The purpose of the backing piece is just to support the print, right?

As far as my plastic experience... I have used it for a variety of things. From basic arcade parts to cantilevered see-through handrails in a Church balcony that will take code impact loads. My work uses plastics for some concrete forming processes and shimming. I've built tanks (friend has a tropical fish breeding business) and free-form shapes with flame polished edges just to see what the stuff will do. (Deep down inside I want to be one of those geeks on Myth busters that just do random stuff with all sorts of materials )

Working plastics is a direct cross from woodworking - a lot of the same principals apply, so it was a pretty easy fit for me.

Dave.

[Pixelhugger]

Again, I appreciate the feedback.

BTW I hope the Monty Python reference came across as complimenting you not questioning you!

I haven't worked out the finer details of how the marquee will be mounted, but have always figured I would cut a channel into the top, bottom and sides of the wood around the plastic to hold it in place. If it will hold as well as you mentioned using channels only in the sides that would sure simplify things. I guess the tough thing is ensuring it applies pressure evenly across the front. You are right, the rear piece is solely to flatten the marquee in place.

I had toyed with the idea of using some sort of u-channel to hold the panels together tightly but this gets a bit squirrelly since the plastic comes down at a angle.. and the channel would have to be bent to follow the 3 sides.... plus I'd prefer to not have a visible retainer.

[nostrebor]

There is no possible way to be upset about a Monty Python reference. I own that movie... the quote "Tis but a flesh wound" still makes me laugh any time I think about it

I should probably go back and look at your posts to see how you were planning on retaining the marquee, but I don't really have the hour to spare

A retainer along the long bent sides (top/bottom) will make the assembly very solid. Retaining the sides only would give it opportunity to flex in and out. The real question is how to get the thing assembled. If you groove the wood and then assemble the cabinet, you won't be able to install your marquee assembly. You could cut some blocking for the backside and that would give something for the assembly to push against, but you need a removeable moulded outside retainer. I'll leave that bit of design sculpting up to your capable imagination

Edit: Well crap! I couldn't stand it! I scrolled thru the 8 million pages of this thread and found a rendering of your Marquee area.

Ummm... question? What the heck holds that thing in there? How will you take it apart to change the lightbulb when it burns out? I have some thoughts (good ones maybe ) but I want to hear your plan first.

[DrewKaree]

Well, if all you are doing is sticking your marquee in there, and it's gonna be lit from behind, will it really matter if it's spot-on perfect with the bends?

As long as the back piece is relatively close, it should keep the shape and those angles should force the piece to lay close to the outer surface.

The sheetmetal idea was just to serve as both a makeshift jig, and a diffuser.  Since you can get the angles identical to the original jig, my thinking is that you'll be able to heat the sheet metal from the underside INSIDE the jig, and the underside OUTSIDE, but not doing this myself, I may just be thinking something that in reality won't work.  Mebbe heat tape on the top, the pencil flame inside the jig, and the spreader flame for between the jig and plexi atop it.

Did ya folla alla dat?

I think the cut/glue backer will show through on the white border/bounding line you have going around the marquee.  Glue a piece and see, but I think Nos is gonna be right on that one.

[Pixelhugger]

Ummm... question? What the heck holds that thing in there? How will you take it apart to change the lightbulb when it burns out? I have some thoughts (good ones maybe ) but I want to hear your plan first.

I'm all ears to any good ideas.

My thinking has been along two lines.

1- Make the top panel of the marquee box...the wooden "lid" removable, or maybe piano hinged. Of course, that may compromise the fit of the top edge of the plexi in the channel of the lid.

At 6.5 feet high it's not going to be very visible up top, but I would want it to be nicely finished up there regardless. I do think it would be possible to make a fairly seamless transition (at least aesthetically) from the arched top of the cab to the hinged panel.

2- There is a speaker cover beneath the marquee box. I was thinking of making this removable and using it to hide a "trap door" for the light assembly itself- so you could actually remove the light fixture or swing it down to replace lights/starters etc. I have a sketch of this somewhere.. now to find it....

#1 appeals to me most as I don't want the marquee printout to be permanently sandwiched... in case it fades and I need to replace it. Or in case...heaven forbid... I decide to rework the art yet again.

Regardless I realize I need access to all parts of the cabinet. It has been a lot to think about with the curved back and top... I imagine the monitor will need to be mounted in a way to allow it's removal/sevicing too. I'm not wild about the idea of sticking a door or access panel along the back curvature, but that may be a necessary evil too.

[Pixelhugger]

Here's a rough idea of what I'm talking about. Again.... I'm all ears for suggestions.

[Pixelhugger]

Well, if all you are doing is sticking your marquee in there, and it's gonna be lit from behind, will it really matter if it's spot-on perfect with the bends?

Proabably not... especially if I can get away with 1/8" stuff since I'm *pretty* sure I can get that super close.

[nostrebor]

You have very sound ideas. Here is mine...

Build a sub-assembly box that houses your marquee and light. Make it so it slides into the opening in the front of your cabinet. secure with 2 screws that are hidden by your speaker grilles. Recess the front edges of the sub-assembly box to give some added "dimension" to the marquee opening. Edge treatments to suit. This allows you to secure the marquee in a fully surrounding groove. You could use screws to put the box top on - access for art changes and bulb changes. Best of all - no hinges to ugly up your cabinet.


(edit: crap typing job)

Pic:

[Pixelhugger]

 

Digesting new concept and possibilities.

[nostrebor]

One thing is for sure...

















You've completely captured my attention with this cabinet I just hope my boss didn't notice my slacky-ness at work today.

[Pixelhugger]

Hehe 

I have developed a reflex like instant window minimizing Pavlovian response to the sound of approaching footsteps for just that reason.

[Flinkly]

i never would have believed that anyone could add to mission control...but i think that has just occured.

[nostrebor]

Well, I'm ate up at this point... the whole sub-box thought process is flowing.

To expand on my box theme. You could work a space or groove between the outside of the sub-box assembly and the inside face of the opening in the front of the cabinet. Then drill a number of small holes through the perimeter of the sub-assembly back from the edge - just enought to let some light thru. This would make the marquee box appear to "float" inside the cavity. Kinda like an architectural backlight effect. You could even get some blue film to put over the holes to force a blue cast.

Or you could just do it like I show above

Dave.

(edit: modified pic = 1000 words. modified bottom edge only. The scale is all wrong, but you get the idea. right?)

[Pixelhugger]

i never would have believed that anyone could add to mission control...

Never underestimate the ingenuity of the people here.

[nostrebor]

After further thought, my idea above seems kinda "pimpin". Maybe I should sleep on it.

Of course pimpin out someone else's cabinet is more fun than pimpin my own

Maybe skip the "light" part and just have the "floating box" part? I will await your thoughts Sir.

[markrvp]

I hate to shift subjects in the middle of a brain storm, but I can't help myself.  Of all the elements of your cab, the one that got me all warm & fuzzy was the awesome art detail for your medium round lighted buttons to change emulators.  These got me so excited, I ordered a couple of different lighted round buttons from Happ and got them in today.  One is red and one is blue.  Oh, oh - that's going to tint the artwork.  I figured you would use clear plastic buttons and the artwork would be lit by white light.  I went back to Happ's site to order some clear buttons, and I DO NOT FIND AN OPTION for clear lighted medium round buttons.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING?  I really want to add that element of cool to one of my projects.

[Pixelhugger]

http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/5400046x.htm


It's item #: 54-0004-61

Catch is they call it "white" not "clear" even though the window on the button is clear. The artwork will be available to whoever wants it for these buttons. If you have Illustrator you can swap the type out to customize.

[markrvp]

Catch is they call it "white" not "clear"

I have been working on 4-5 hours of sleep a night for the past 3 weeks so I feel really stupid right now.  Thank you for pointing out what should have been very obvious.

[nostrebor]

Hehe 

I have developed a reflex like instant window minimizing Pavlovian response to the sound of approaching footsteps for just that reason.

(psssst. assign the center click to minimize the current window . pass it around)

[AmericanDemon]

(psssst. assign the center click to minimize the current window . pass it around)

Heh.  I did that at my last employer.  I also had a program that I had found which, when you used the middle mouse click to minimize it would hide it off of the taskbar too.  The only way to bring the window out of hiding was to hit Alt + Middle mouse Button.  Now if I could only remember the name of it.

[Chris]

(psssst. assign the center click to minimize the current window . pass it around)

Heh.