newb build. Struggling to get twin off the ground

[deathrow]

Hey all,

Bit of a lurker saying hello 

I have had a read around the site and have looked at various threads of old and have learnt a few things but there is still much for me to learn.

I built a twin sitdown racer here from scrap bits and old tv's etc:







Its the first project or this type ive ever attempted.

She runs two ps2's linked up on a LAN and I have hacked a couple of logitec driving force (pre ex) type wheels. (also pc compatible)
I have dons this by mainly reading this site and learning what I can.

I got this working and have had fun but its too much hassle with visitors and game menus and the games are too complicated for quick sit down and race thrashes.

I really want sega rally. daytona etc etc so have decided I would like to strip out the ps2's and go the Sega Model 2 route.
Now heres the bad bit... I don't understand computer trickery, the terms, the jargon or any of it. I have read a few things on here and I am soooo lost by hdd, mem, graphics cards, sound cards, emulations, front ends, hyperspins etc etc.

Can anyone help me in simple terms of what computers I needs, what spec I need them and how roughly to get going? Or maybe point me to threads I have missed that do this?
Cost is a factor.. Lower the better 

I can learn easily from a good teacher.

I am sorry that my first post is a question.

To introduce myself though, I am from Norfolk, England and I am a welder frabricator and car restorer that has a new hobby. My wife doesn't understand me or my "toys" lol

Thanks very much in advance
Dr Deathrow

[deathrow]

Am I posting in the wrong section?

I have read the how to thread on here thats very helpful but my main question is about the pc spec etc.

[BadMouth]

Right place, bad timing.  I'm replying via my phone, so will post a more thorough answer when I back home. 

Model 2 emulator requirements aren't too bad.  Probably need at least 2.8Ghz to ge by.   3D games inMAME are very demanding.  That speed will just barely get the cuisin' series playable.  I have a 3.4 GHz X3 and after a ton of tweaking, California speed is playable, but it took alot of tweaking.  SF rush runs at 90%.  Ridge racer and the Gaelco games are nowhere near running.   you need at least that speed for Suprmodel emulator.  It utilizes up to 3 cores.   Buy the fastest processor your budget allows for and keep in mind that a slower advertised i5 will beat the pants off an AMD advertised half a Ghz faster.

[deathrow]

Thanks Badmouth.

To be honest I will be happy with model 2 only and use the ps2's for other games when visitors have gone.

Me and my sons are happy to use the ps2's but it takes ages on each game to explain to everyone the menus and settings etc.

To have sega rally, daytona usa, indy 500 and touring cars etc would be great as a learning project and would meet my needs.

If supermodel does become a 2 player link option in the future then maybe I will think about upgrading.

I have loads of two player lan games for the ps2 that give huge amount of 2 player fun so the model 2 stuff is mainly to re-live my youth and entertain family when I burn food for them in the garden.

So would two of these be ok for just model 2 with hyperspin front?

1gb, 40gb hdd:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-3D-Gaming-PC-2x3GHz-CDRW-DVD-1GB-40GB-Dual-Head-Radeon-X1300-Video-/280974535636?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopPCs&hash=item416b632bd4

2gb, 80 hdd:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280960272202?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

4gb, 80gb hdd:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261094685105?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

or bigger hdd's?
This is just for model 2 or lower demand stuff. (Im a serious newb)

Seem very cheap.

The i5 and i7 stuff I can look at in the future when the prices come down. My machine has to live in the conservatory as the wife doesn't want my toys indoors. A few hundred pounds of computers out there would keep me awake at nights lol

Thanks very much for helping me.

[Howard_Casto]

It seems kind of small in regards to hdd size. 

Remember windows itself is gong to take around 10 gigs of space.

If you add any pc racers they can be upwards of 4 gigs a piece.   

Hyperspin isn't exactly conservative on the artwork either. 

The roms are usually the smallest part of your rig in terms of hdd space. 


My 2 cents... the 80 gigs would probably be ok (although it'll be tight) but the 40 gig is probably too small. 

[deathrow]

Thanks, much appreciated.

do you think the 2gb ram with say a 160 gb hdd would be the way forward? the seller does have some of these.

The rest of the system seems ok?

[Howard_Casto]

Bigger is always better, but when you are on a budget get what you can afford. 

You just need to be mindful that things take more room than you think they do. 

Example:

A 20mb rom actually might equate to that 20mb plus:

2 mb of artwork

50-100 mb video file for hyperspin

ect.... ect...


It adds up. 

Now a racer isn't going to have a lot on it, but a racing rig has the benefit of pc games as well, and as I said, they aren't exactly tiny. 

[BadMouth]

1gb, 40gb hdd:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-3D-Gaming-PC-2x3GHz-CDRW-DVD-1GB-40GB-Dual-Head-Radeon-X1300-Video-/280974535636?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopPCs&hash=item416b632bd4

2gb, 80 hdd:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280960272202?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

4gb, 80gb hdd:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261094685105?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I despise Pentium 4's, was stuck with a very slow one at work for a long time.   
I don't know if they'd run the Model 2 games or not.
Anyone running M2 on a P4 and can comment?

Might not be a bad idea for us to start putting together a list of processors, the most demanding game they will play, and the least demanding game it will choke on.  There are a lot of other factors, but it would give people an idea of what they'll need.

[Fursphere]

If you're going to mess with Hyperspin, you're going to want a Platinum membership AND an Emumovies subscription, so you can complete your setup.

And in today's world - I wouldn't buy anything smaller than a 1TB HDD.  For a my driving cabinet, I just bought a 4TB drive.  I got tired of shuffling everything around, so I just went huge.

[Howard_Casto]

1gb, 40gb hdd:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-3D-Gaming-PC-2x3GHz-CDRW-DVD-1GB-40GB-Dual-Head-Radeon-X1300-Video-/280974535636?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopPCs&hash=item416b632bd4

2gb, 80 hdd:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280960272202?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

4gb, 80gb hdd:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261094685105?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I despise Pentium 4's, was stuck with a very slow one at work for a long time.   
I don't know if they'd run the Model 2 games or not.
Anyone running M2 on a P4 and can comment?

Might not be a bad idea for us to start putting together a list of processors, the most demanding game they will play, and the least demanding game it will choke on.  There are a lot of other factors, but it would give people an idea of what they'll need.

I used to run M2 on my old cabinet, and it was slower than that.  Mind you, with processors you never know, sometimes the type is more important than the raw speed.  Also I think M2 was on version .5 or .6 when I used to run it.... I think he updated the render engine since then so there's no telling. 

[deathrow]

thanks guys,

So I need to stay away from P4...

Budget dual core 160gb hdd

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Powerful-Dual-Core-160GB-2GB-CDRW-DVD-Combo-Drive-3D-Gaming-Desktop-XP-AntiVirus-/251144343087?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopPCs&hash=item3a795e8e2f

But add a bigger hdd.

I know ideally I need to spend more on the computers but these will live in a conservatory.

[Fursphere]

Model 2 and Model 3 emulators both offload rendering to the graphics card.  Those systems you're listing most likely use onboard video which in every case is nothing short of horrible.  And the cases (and power supplies) are designed in a way you can't put in an aftermarket video card (case not big enough, power supply not strong enough).

You're fine starting with one of those - just now when you go to upgrade, you'll be forklifting the entire thing.

[deathrow]

Hi, thanks for the reply.

Yes I understand that with an upgrade that these will be pretty much bin fodder.

Its just a learning project for me.
Im easily pleased 

Just knowing what to buy. I dont want to spend over £100 a side if I can help it on a couple of cheap computers. From what I have read model 2 is pretty forgiving on hardware?

Would be nice to find the computers so that I can get re building the cab,buttons and elastic trickery etc etc

If anyone comes across some on ebay that they think would easily do what I require within my budget please could you post a link? I would be happy to share a couple of my beer tokens for anything that leads to a purchase 

[deathrow]

So from what I gather from you guru's:

A 256mb graphics card will struggle somewhat.

I'm guessing something like this will be ok?
Graphics Card: VTX3D Radeon 3D/HD gaming Graphics with 512MB DDR2 video RAM

Staying away from p4 what about:
Processor: 2 x Intel Xeon HT 2.8Ghz = Quad (4) x 2.8GHz
Or should I look for a 3.0+?

Ram... I need to be looking at 2-4gb? does quad work better as in:
Memory: 1GB (4 x 256MB) RAM

Hard Drive: 160GB hard drive and upwards

I do apologise for the questions. I am learning as fast as I can. ( I didnt know what an Ipac was just three days ago).

[deathrow]

So from what I gather from you guru's:

A 256mb graphics card will struggle somewhat.

I'm guessing something like this will be ok?
Graphics Card: VTX3D Radeon 3D/HD gaming Graphics with 512MB DDR2 video RAM

Staying away from p4 what about:
Processor: 2 x Intel Xeon HT 2.8Ghz = Quad (4) x 2.8GHz
Or should I look for a 3.0+?

Ram... I need to be looking at 2-4gb? does quad work better as in:
Memory: 1GB (4 x 256MB) RAM
or should I go with:
Memory: 4GB (4 x 1GB) DDR ECC RAM

Hard Drive: 160GB hard drive and upwards

I do apologise for the questions. I am learning as fast as I can. ( I didnt know what an Ipac was just three days ago).

[BadMouth]

Don't know much about the video card.  M2 requires the video card support pixelshader v2.0

The xeon processor would probably do fine. 
I found an old thread where someone had a 2.8Ghz P4 and they said it was playable but the sound stuttered.

If you're using XP, there isn't really any reason to have more than 2GB memory for this application.
If you use XP64, you'll get a noticeable boost in the MAME games.

If you're not going to run PC games on it, 160GB will probably be fine.  I have 500GB drive in mine and it's probably half full, but I have PC games installed.
IIRC, the emulator folder in my driving cab is not too much over 100GB and that includes some console emulators that I never play.
The old Model 2 and MAME games take up hardly any room at all. 

Space only starts disappearing fast when you add emulators for CD based consoles and preview videos.

I'm not sure if linking the cabs in Model 2 requires more processing power then running it standalone.
Can someone with linked cabs comment?

[deathrow]

Processor wise then I would be better with a dual core 3.0+ ?

I have seen a 3.4ghz  dual core thats not too expensive.
Im gathering the speed is the important part with processors. 4x2.8 is still only 2.8 but it can wash up, iron, cook and clean at 2.8 speed.
I need something ideally 3.0 or faster and not p4.

Sorry to be thick (again) but what is pixelshader 2.0?

M2 requires the video card support pixelshader v2.0

Would this be something in the blurb on the graphics cards that I can swat up on or is this something where I would need to ask people in the know?

I may sneak a couple of pc games on there but its not too important. I will take your comments on board though and keep an eye out for a larger Hdd setup.

TBH I wont be adding any cd emulators.
I will be building a stand alone fighting cab for that but thats another story for one day in the very distant future though lol

Any comments re the processors will be gratefully received.

[deathrow]

Just found our old tower in the cupboard, A little online digging and:

E-I system
Ei 305

Intel Pentium 4 631 Processor
3.0GHz, 800MHz FSB, 2MB Cache
Microsoft Windows Vista Premium
1GB DDR RAM
160GB Hard Disk
Multi-Format Dual Layer DVD RW Drive
Integrated Graphics
7-in-1 Media Card Reader
6 USB Connections
1 PCI Slot

Close but no cigar?

Integrated graphics isnt going to help either.

Shame as its doing nowt.

[BadMouth]

Im gathering the speed is the important part with processors. 4x2.8 is still only 2.8 but it can wash up, iron, cook and clean at 2.8 speed.

Only if the program it is running is capable of using multiple cores.  MAME doesn't.  Model 2 emulator can use 2. 
Having a third or fourth core helps out a wee little bit with overhead, but that's about it. 
Processor speed is the most important thing.  Most video cards will run model 2 unless they're really ancient.

Sorry to be thick (again) but what is pixelshader 2.0?

M2 requires the video card support pixelshader v2.0

Would this be something in the blurb on the graphics cards that I can swat up on or is this something where I would need to ask people in the know?

Should be in the specs somewhere.  Might be a case of trial and error.  My knowledge of video cards is outdated.  I have a cheap Nvidia 7300GS in my old computer and it works.  Anything made in the last 8 years will probably be fine.  (we do have a lot of people in this hobby that insist on using 20yo PCs)

[BadMouth]

Just found our old tower in the cupboard, A little online digging and:

E-I system
Ei 305

Intel Pentium 4 631 Processor
3.0GHz, 800MHz FSB, 2MB Cache
Microsoft Windows Vista Premium
1GB DDR RAM
160GB Hard Disk
Multi-Format Dual Layer DVD RW Drive
Integrated Graphics
7-in-1 Media Card Reader
6 USB Connections
1 PCI Slot

Close but no cigar?

Integrated graphics isnt going to help either.

Shame as its doing nowt.

Worth dropping a $20-30 used video card into and trying.

[deathrow]

Worth a go eh?

any recommendations?

Thanks

[Drnick]

The problem will be the 1 PCI slot,  if it doesn't have AGP or PCI-E I don't know what video cards you could use that would be any good.

[deathrow]

The problem will be the 1 PCI slot,  if it doesn't have AGP or PCI-E I don't know what video cards you could use that would be any good.

Is there anyway I can tell?
I can take pictures of the back and remove the side if thats any good?

[Drnick]

shoot a photo of the motherboard.   PCI is almost always a white slot, AGP Brown, PCI-E Black YMMV though.

[BadMouth]

pay attention to where the gap is in the slot down the middle

[Drnick]

pay attention to where the gap is in the slot down the middle

This is good advice 

[BadMouth]

This is good advice 

On my work computer, I can't even see the pic that I linked!  (but I saw it at the original link)
Hopefully deathrow can see it.

[Drnick]

nope no image linked

[deathrow]

will get this done in the morning.

Sorry but I cannot see the pic either.

[BadMouth]

Sorry but I cannot see the pic either.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=ErfLEIHkaHMxMM&tbnid=2XZIh2mA544e_M:&ved=0CAUQjBwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnetworking.ringofsaturn.com%2FPC%2Fpc_slots.gif&ei=xlM-UaiPEYjb0QG6g4HwDg&psig=AFQjCNHA7C1JGWCKeUfTOESbnitkmQM_VQ&ust=1363125574355486

[deathrow]

Thanks.

will get on to this first thing.

[deathrow]

Ok so I have taken a look and here are some pics.

It would seem that despite the blurb for the ei305 saying this has 1 port? I can see 2?







This was bought in 2007. Some other pics,









Would it be best to remove the Vista and put XP64 on there?

I can also see that this has two small ram cards at 512 each, a good idea to upgrade to two 1g cards?

 

[BadMouth]

The green one is PCI Express (PCIe).  It's probably v1.0, but the common v2.0 cards are backwards compatible to the old slots.
You should be able to find a card on fleabay or elswhere fairly cheap.

I'd give it a try with with 1GB for now.  I think I ran mine with only 1GB for a while and don't remember having any issues with M2.
I'd also stick with Vista until you figure out if the PC is fast enough to run Model 2 games.  No point in doing all the work of installing another OS if it isn't going to be fast enough anyway.  Do disable or uninstall the antivirus, system restore and any other programs that automatically start with Windows and suck up resources.

[deathrow]

The green one is PCI Express (PCIe).  It's probably v1.0, but the common v2.0 cards are backwards compatible to the old slots.
You should be able to find a card on fleabay or elswhere fairly cheap.

I'd give it a try with with 1GB for now.  I think I ran mine with only 1GB for a while and don't remember having any issues with M2.
I'd also stick with Vista until you figure out if the PC is fast enough to run Model 2 games.  No point in doing all the work of installing another OS if it isn't going to be fast enough anyway.  Do disable or uninstall the antivirus, system restore and any other programs that automatically start with Windows and suck up resources.

Magic will do.

I need to get everything downloaded and then uninstall all but the bare bones.

Had a little poke with it just now to make sure she is working as it should.

[deathrow]

any of these any good just to run the m2 stuff?

1g
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?LH_ItemCondition=3&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=1gb+graphics+card&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1

512
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?LH_BIN=1&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=512+graphics+card&_dmpt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW&rt=nc&LH_ItemCondition=3

[Drnick]

Pretty much any of those should work.  Bang for buck would probably be the 1GB GT610, or GT620 Get a passive version to keep power requirements down and to keep noise levels down.  If you find one with HDMI then you also get a bit of future proofing in case you want to go with a Large flat screen TV or something in the future.

[deathrow]

Pretty much any of those should work.  Bang for buck would probably be the 1GB GT610, or GT620 Get a passive version to keep power requirements down and to keep noise levels down.  If you find one with HDMI then you also get a bit of future proofing in case you want to go with a Large flat screen TV or something in the future.

Excellent thanks.

Gone for the Radeon HD5450- 1GB DDR3. Has HDMI, DVI and VGA outs 

[deathrow]

ok,

Card in and working.

The Emu will load up, I can select the roms but when I load a rom I get a list of unloaded files and a statement saying the files are incomplete.
Is this something I have done wrong?







I have tried all day to get this far without having to keep asking for help, I am however really stuck.
Any Ideas?

Cheers 

[BadMouth]

Well, it's obvious it's not finding the roms.
The path to them is probably wrong.

When all else fails, read the instructions (readme.txt).

[deathrow]

 

Sorry, knuckles wrapped and accepted.