Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table

[bearzilla333]

WOW!!!!    This looks awesome!

[Gamester]

I like the feet, but I feel like the legs are still a bit of a 'forced' nod to what this machine morphed from.  It's already blown past any notion that this is a 'normal' pinball machine.  Why not get rid of the fake leg trim stuff and just pimp the thing out with some kind of really cool decorative corner trim?

Just my $0.02...

Carry on.  This is really interesting stuff!   

[floriske.nl]

So do the few days full white screen trick just to be sure to get rid of the biggest risk!
I've been a pro av technician for 6,5 years (3,5 on rental and 3 on sales and installation) and I've seen a lot of plasmas gone to waste, even newer ones.

Awesome man, i will definitely do that, could you explain how to do it so I get it right? Thanks 

Some professional screens have an option for this in the menu but for those that don't have this it's a simple as creating a blank PowerPoint slide with a white background, set it on full screen and be sure to turn off power saving and screensaver on the computer. Than Just let it light up your room for a few days (we used to do 4 days on professional screens).

 Place the screen vertical as it's supposed to be instead of flat on it's back for optimal heat dissipation. Professional screens are intended for long continuous use, I have no idea how this relates to consumer versions. If you get the feeling the screen is getting too hot just turn it off, let it cool down and continue again.

[ChadTower]

IMO liquids should be kept away from things like this.  Yeah, people want beer, but give them a shelf next to it for their beer.  Don't encourage people to put their beer on your games.  DON'T ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO PUT THEIR BEER ON YOUR GAMES. 

If you give them a cupholder the beer will go on the glass.  Every time.  Followed not long after by a cigarette on the CP.  Followed not long after by an argument when you tell them to use the cupholder ("yeah but it isn't designed for ceremonial 64oz Fosters cans, mate").  Avoid the whole thing altogether by putting an end table next to it with 659 cup holders and ash trays.

Especially with the Pinball 2000 shape for some reason.  I cannot tell you how many times I've had to remind arcade collectors not to stack metal parts on my Pinball 2000 playfield glass.  And even they get pissy about it.

[griffindodd]

I guess Chad doesn't know the rules about cupholders in my build threads )

[griffindodd]

The 32" and the ultrawide 29" have virtually identical horizontal widths so they mate really well.
 


Also I've decided to revert back to a more traditional back box design. I don't like how far this is drifting from the iconic pinball table look so I need to reign it back in a bit

[yotsuya]

Good call, Griff.

I've sure you've seen this one before, but I think this one has always been the best Visual Pin I've seen so far: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,98252.0.html

[ChadTower]

I guess Chad doesn't know the rules about cupholders in my build threads )

I do know how people act in a house that isn't their own.  The rules won't stop people from being the animals they are.  Even people you would expect to respect the games often won't when it's someone else's house.   

[yotsuya]

I think what Griffin is trying to tell you that he likes to throw them into the design, but he's not actually going to do it. )

[griffindodd]

Yeah this is better

[rablack97]

wait, you built that already???


Chad,

People on the forum have mixed views on the cupholders, griff threatened to put cupholders on Revolution.  It cause such a big discussion, that he now threatens to do the same on all of his major builds to start the hens a cackling again about how awful the idea is....You just got reeled in bud, sorry.....

Put him back in the lake griff, he's an 8 pounder.....

[ChadTower]

 

[griffindodd]

Making nice progress here

[rablack97]

Ok that would be a yes.....damn your fast......

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[griffindodd]

Lol yeah I'm getting a good pace today.

Mounted the internal speakers from the TV below the computer speakers. This way you can always use the backglass to watch some football or a movie while playing your games

[griffindodd]

Took a chance on some reclaimed 24v contactors from eBay, $35 for 8 shipped


A lot of people buy used Siemens contractors but I think its just because they see others using them. As a result the price of those keeps getting pushed up. I checked the specs and these have all the same as the Siemens ones for a third of the price.

[DaOld Man]

Looking good Griff!!!
I like the allen bradley contactors, actually, I like them better than Siemens.
Good price for 8 of them.

[chopperthedog]

Flip the upper speakers so the tweeters are spread further apart. It will help with stereo separation and sound imaging.



good day.

[griffindodd]

Flip the upper speakers so the tweeters are spread further apart. It will help with stereo separation and sound imaging.

Thanks! Good to know

[griffindodd]

Damn you Scott!

Ever since you mentioned that nudgable lockdown bar the idea hasn't stopped rolling around in my head, it's genius.

Also I'm trying to find a more elegant way to incorporate the arcade controls that tie in with the pinball aesthetic. I was thinking an oversize nudgable lockdown bar with flush chrome buttons that you push down into the bar. The joystick is still obviously the biggest issue because of it's profile, but again if I kept it all chrome it could blend better.



I have no idea how to shape metal like this though. Maybe Neph can chime in on this one

[Nephasth]

I have no idea how to shape metal like this though. Maybe Neph can chime in on this one

I'd go with laser cut for accuracy, then find someone/some company with a brake press to make the bends, then weld the seems of the corners, then it'd be ready to chrome. Try to get studs welded to the backside for the joystick mounting, it'd keep the top nice a clean.

Flat drawing would look something like this...

[griffindodd]

Nice. Yep that sounds like a plan, And I think I know a guy who knows a guy. Thanks

[PL1]

Before you go with that design, remember that moving the joystick or pressing the flipper buttons vigorously will probably move the *sliding* lockdown bar.

You push left on the joystick and the joystick handle moves left until it stops, then the lockdown bar moves left.     Not so great for SHMUPS/bullet hell.

Instead of having the flipper buttons, joystick, or player buttons on the lockdown/nudge bar, it should be either a rectangular frame or a U-shape when viewed from above.

Put the flippers (blue) on the siderails (yellow), just like a regular pin.

Put the joystick (black) and buttons (red) on a solid island (tan) in the middle of the bar. (gray)

With this setup, your palms rest on the lockdown bar while playing pinball, just like on a regular pin.

Moving the joystick will not move the lockdown bar.

The "island" should have shoulders that the lockdown bar slides either on or just above.

The shoulders need to be wider than the travel distance of the lockdown bar to press the nudge switches. (green)


Scott

Edit: Added diagram and supporting text, removed ASCII art

[yotsuya]

I actually liked how you kept the joystick and buttons off the top in the original concept. Can you still do that while intergrating this special lockbar?

[rockyrocket]

Making nice progress here

Wow that is fast work!.
One thing that I notice is that the playfield looks flat, or is that just an illusion due to its size?.
I mention this as when I built my midi pin (before pindmds) the screen had to be laid flat to clear the third DMD screen, and it drove me crazy!.
So much so that now I have a real dmd and did away with the third screen (and also the second gpu) the past week has been spent rebuilding the base with a nice incline to the playfield.
Just some food for thought.

[griffindodd]

Ahhh I see what you mean, although that solid slab of metal would be more characteristic of the pin feel. This is going to be a fun one I can see.

Yeah Yot finding the balance in the space, keeping functionality and maintaining the aesthetic is going to be a challenge. Avoiding making it look like a bad compromise of everything is going to be key

[griffindodd]

Hey Rocky. The whole machine will have an incline when its on its legs so yes at the moment the field is flat but it will be about 4-6 degrees when complete. The back box will have adjustable tilt to get the correct alignment to vertical when the table angle is introduced

[rockyrocket]

Hey Rocky. The whole machine will have an incline when its on its legs so yes at the moment the field is flat but it will be about 4-6 degrees when complete. The back box will have adjustable tilt to get the correct alignment to vertical when the table angle is introduced

Cool!, like I said a flat PF drove me nuts and I did live with it for a few years but having had the past week off work it got redone - finally.
Just need to finish wiring the monster .

[PL1]

I actually liked how you kept the joystick and buttons off the top in the original concept. Can you still do that while intergrating this special lockbar?

The problem with having the joystick and buttons retractable -- like the original plan -- is that the proposed automation mechanism would interfere with the sideart projection path, the coin mech, or both.

Maybe try something like this rough concept using a linear actuator (red) to pivot the controls along a 2-segment hinge (green) allowing the cover (blue) to become a handrest when open.

NOTE: Not drawn to scale and the angle of the linear actuator is almost certainly too flat.


Scott

[yotsuya]

I don't remember reading anything anywhere about a retractable joystick. His concepts show a recessed area that appears to put the joysticks and buttons below the table surface, much like a Midway cocktail. If he's planning to add a joystick, I think this would be preferable to having it up on top all the time.

[griffindodd]

I don't remember reading anything anywhere about a retractable joystick. His concepts show a recessed area that appears to put the joysticks and buttons below the table surface, much like a Midway cocktail. If he's planning to add a joystick, I think this would be preferable to having it up on top all the time.

Yeah Scott had mentioned the retractable idea in some PM's back and forth

[rablack97]

oddly enough I was thinking the same thing about the j-stik, retractable or removable,

Didnt think you were going for the transformer concept as well...

What would be cool is a j-stik shaft that could be screwed in an out of an actuator base......

Since your innovating, innovate that......

[PL1]

oddly enough I was thinking the same thing about the j-stik, retractable or removable,

Didnt think you were going for the transformer concept as well...

What would be cool is a j-stik shaft that could be screwed in an out of an actuator base......

Since your innovating, innovate that......

If only someone could think of a way to do an easily removable shaft like that.   

I don't remember reading anything anywhere about a retractable joystick.

Reply #5 here has an oblique reference to the "automated feature" -- a pop-up joystick/button panel on drawer slides controlled by opening or closing a cover which would cause the panel to raise or lower.

In reply #6, Joel said, "I don't think I have a problem with the control panel being a fixed part of the overall aesthetic."

When Joel mentioned a possible Addams Family theme, I suggested making the cover look like the lid of a coffin.


Scott

[griffindodd]

Making an executive decision here.



I don't like the deep sides, they take away from the pinball feel too much. So I'm doing two things.

1- Shortening the machine to just the length of the play field as much as I can. This allows me to project within the width of the cabinet with the projectors completely enclosed while still getting decent coverage.


This then allows me to...

2. Chop the box depth to a more traditional layout so I can use proper legs and really retain that traditional pinball feel.

The arcade controls can exist in a million different ways but a pin cab needs to look like a pin cab so I'm going to let that lead and the controls will have to play nicely around that.

[griffindodd]

Another potential solution for the arcade controls is to use Scott's original idea of having them retract, but use the coin door as the retracting area, essentially making the coin door just a facia that pops open like a drawer and then the arcade control panel can move up into place.

Rough sketch but you get the idea


This is nice as it can fire microswitches which can change the FE over to HyperSpin when the drawer is open and then back to HyperPin when it's closed. If I can pull this off then in pin mode the cab looks like any other Vpin cabinet...... sort of

[griffindodd]

Time for a random music video post.

Anyone who used to play Star Wars Galaxies will probably know this piece of awesomeness, for those of you that don't, the fun really starts around 1:10 into the clip...

[PL1]

making the coin door just a facia that pops open like a drawer and then the arcade control panel can move up into place.

Interesting thought.

Maybe use a rocker switch and Arduino to control linear actuator 1 to push out the coin door drawer and after a certain time, linear actuator 2 raises the panel into place.

When the rocker switch is set to the other position, linear actuator 2 lowers the panel for a certain time before commanding linear actuator 1 to retract the coin door drawer.


Scott

[griffindodd]

Linear actuators a very expensive though right? I was thinking some kind of small scissor lift which are perfect for securing platforms at set heights.

[BadMouth]

I'd have the visible part of the screen tapered parallel with the top.
Is it possible to mount the projector opposite the screen pointing down and use the mirror in the corner to get more width?


Sometimes Surplus Center has some weird parts that are useful for automation.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/
Most of them will be under electrical.

Watch the speeds on the actuators, they're usually pretty slow.

[griffindodd]

This seems like a decent price, I could probably power it via Zeb's power boards that I have coming...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dewert-24V-Stroke-Linear-Actuator-900lbs-Push-1300lbs-Pull-Force-8-Stroke-/190779501488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6b582bb0