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Author Topic: Help installing groovymame  (Read 8502 times)

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Waglo

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Help installing groovymame
« on: November 13, 2012, 01:07:53 am »
Hi, can anyone explain to me how to install groovymame and use it in conjunction with vmmaker/arcade_osd?  I've tried googling this but I have been incapable of finding an installation guide. 

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 03:14:58 am »
Hi, I have an ATI 4350 and am running Windows XP x64 (fresh install), my monitor is a NEC XM2950 with a max resolution of 1024x768 and the following specs from the manual:

H Freq/ V Freq: 15.5-50.5 Khz / 40-120 Hz

So far I have done the following.

1. downloaded and installed crt_emudriver_9.3_1.2a_x64_multisync
2. downloaded mame and groovymame, replaced mame64.exe with groovymame and renamed groovymame to mame64.exe
3. created a mame.ini from groovymame which I renamed to mame64.exe
4. Downloaded the most recent versions of VMMaker and Arcade OSD.
5. Opened vmmaker.ini and told it the location of mame64.exe ( groovymame) and the mame.ini, then I edited the YresMin_XML = 224 for CPS2 games.
6. I ran VMMaker, it generated the new modelines and then I restarted.

Problems:

I am using a NEC XM2950 monitor, I used to be able to use 800x600/1024x768 but now I can't, how can I get my access to higher resolutions back?

When I checked the modelines with Arcade_OSD, none of the test patterns fill the screen, all of them are really underscanned and not even centered, when I run groovymame, my games appear the same way. How do I fix the geometry issues of my games (CPS2 and Neo-Geo) to fully fill the screen?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 07:32:02 am by Waglo »

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 07:39:29 am »
Hi Waglo,

It seems like you made all the steps right. However we don't have a valid preset for the XM2950 yet. It's just a matter of one XM2950 user finding the right values by means of Arcade_OSD and posting them, which unfortunatly has not happened yet. Just a warning: you won't be able affect vertical geometry, only horizontal (amplitude + centering), so chances are your CPS2 games will still show black borders up and down unless you adjust them manually on the vertical.

So the basic method involves launching one representative video mode for each relevant horizontal frequency (15.7, 25.0, 31.5 kHz) and use the geometry settings to adjust the borders as much as possible. Then copy the resulting *timings* here so we can build a monitor_specs preset adjusted to your monitor.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 07:58:38 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 04:57:07 pm »
Hi, I'll volunteer to find the values, I just need some guidance on how to do so, but I'll post them for all once I succeed.  I originally used the vmmaker and arcade osd that came in the driver folder, with that vmmaker, I had 800x600p, when I removed it and used the new vmmaker, I no longer had access to 800x600, only 720x480p.  Will finding the values for my monitor fix that issue as well?

What would be the first few steps to begin this process?

Thanks for your time Calamity, I appreciate everything you have done for the community.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 05:56:38 am »
So from what I understand, I must first find the monitor presets for my NEC XM 2950 to use in vmmaker correct?

How do I go about getting 1024x768/800x600 resolutions for my desktop like my original driver permitted me to?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 06:03:07 am by Waglo »

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 02:00:08 pm »
This link is from a folk who assembled an interesting setup using a NEC XM, we might ask him about his settings:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,118641.msg1256986.html#msg1256986

Here some specs you may use as a starting point. Because XM 2950 manual is not available AFAIK, I've used the XM 2960 manual to get the timings for the 31-38-48 KHz ranges. For the 15-19-24 ranges I've used guessed values. Here they are:

monitor_specs0    15700-15800, 50-62, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 256, 384
monitor_specs1    18500-19000, 50-62, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 384
monitor_specs2    24500-25000, 50-62, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 384, 400
monitor_specs3    31500-31600, 50-62, 0.318, 3.813, 1.589, 0.064, 0.064, 0.793, 0, 0, 480, 600
monitor_specs4    37500-38000, 50-62, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.026, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 600, 768
monitor_specs5    48000-48500, 50-62, 0.369, 2.092, 2.462, 0.062, 0.124, 0.600, 0, 0, 768, 800

So first edit vmmaker.ini to add those lines. Select "CUSTOM" as monitor type. Then open ReslList.txt and add the resolutions you're missing, now with the above specs they should get calculated. Add them like this:

Code: [Select]
## Waglo ##

 800 x 600 @ 60.000000 waglo
1024 x 768 @ 60.000000 waglo

Use the exact spacing or it wont work!

Now launch vmmaker as usual. When it finishes, before rebooting, open Modeline.txt to make sure your high-res modelines have been created.

If everything goes fine, you'll have new modes created for the different ranges. Then it will be a matter of opening a mode representative of each range and readjust geometry if needed, and back port the results to the above lines.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 03:39:04 pm »
Hi, thanks for setting me up to begin the process, I happen to have the NEC XM 2950 manual link: http://blog.wolfsoft.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/XM2950G_SM_NEC.pdf

That was posted by another member here.

I copy and pasted the modelines and resolutions, 1024x768 still doesnt show up in Arcade_OSD, 800x600 @ 60 does though.  I tried my best to get horizontal centering for 384x224 (15.706 khz) with the following adjustments:

Dot clock - 7.16mhz
H-Center - 5/6
H-Active - 48 ch 53.618us
H-Front Porch - 1ch 1.17us
H-Sync Pulse - 3ch 3.351us
H-Back Porch - 5ch 5.585us
Blanking - 9ch 10.053us
Total = 57ch 63.671us
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 05:11:15 pm by Waglo »

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 05:26:58 pm »
Hi, I just send the pdf manual to your e-mail and have modified my previous post to include my horizontal centering settings for 15.7khz.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 05:41:34 pm »
Thanks for the manual!

I copy and pasted the modelines and resolutions, 1024x768 still doesnt show up in Arcade_OSD, 800x600 @ 60 does though.

Check Modeline.txt and ModeList.txt to check that the modeline for 1024x768 is being calculated. It's working here for me with the same specs lines.

Quote
I tried my best to get horizontal centering for 384x224 (15.706 khz) with the following adjustments:

So I'll show you how to port these values to the monitor_specs line, then you'll be able to do it for the rest of modes:

Quote
Dot clock - 7.16mhz
H-Center - 5/6
H-Active - 48 ch 53.618us
H-Front Porch - 1ch 1.17us
H-Sync Pulse - 3ch 3.351us
H-Back Porch - 5ch 5.585us
Blanking - 9ch 10.053us
Total = 57ch 63.671us

monitor_specs0    15700-15800, 50-62, 1.17, 3.351, 5.585, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 256, 384

NOTE: You don't need to recalculate all modes again with VMMaker each time you change geometry settings, just use the modified lines inside GroovyMAME and the new values will be applied on the fly.

NOTE 2: Make sure you're using the last version of VMMaker: http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/
(this may be the reason you're not getting 1024x768)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 05:45:19 pm by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 06:24:55 pm »
Hi,

I am using the newest version of vmmaker and arcade_osd, I tried using my horizontal centering settings, when I loaded Super Street Fighter 2 in groovymame, it appears  as if mame is not displaying the sides of the screen, take this picture for instance:

http://www.arcade-museum.com/images/107/1076851305.jpg

Mame cuts off all the players faces next to the life bars and the screen begins at the start of the player names.

When I load groovymame, I cannot see the menu anymore, I just hit down arrow 3 times because I know thats where SSF2 is and I hit enter.  While I feel more problems present themselves, I feel like im finally getting somewhere :).  From what I understand, I can only use modelines to adjust the horizontal geometry correct? I have to manually adjust the vertical settings via the monitor.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 06:39:01 pm by Waglo »

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 06:39:07 pm »
Go step by step.

- Find why you're not getting the 1024x768 resolution. See my posts above.
- Why can't you see the menu? Which resolution is it picking?
- Create a log: groovymame ssf2 -v -md 4 >ssf2.txt
- Post it here.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 07:15:08 pm »
I re-installed my driver and arcade_osd,vmmaker, groovymame.  Honestly, I don't care if I get access to 1024x768, it looks pretty bad to begin with and I like using 800x600 anyways.  Lets deal with that problem later.  Groovymame no longer cuts off the sides of my game, that problem is solved.  The groovymame menu runs fine untill I modify the monitor_specs0 in mame.ini to my new settings, then it wont show anything when it starts up.  If I set it back to Auto, then it works again.

I have included a log of groovymame, I don't understand much in the log, but I do notice that there is an area where an error blitting to the screen occurs.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 11:32:18 pm by Waglo »

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2012, 11:54:57 am »
Hi Waglo,

MAME is picking a bad mode (641x480) and gets crazy. That mode shouldn't be there. In order to eliminate it, use the ReslList.txt file attached, as well as replacing the first monitor_specs line by this one:

monitor_specs0    15700-16200, 50-62, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 256, 384

Hopefully that fixes the issue and we can go on with the interesting stuff.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Waglo

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2012, 04:25:05 pm »
Hi, I deleted my reslist.txt and replaced mine with the one that you have attached.  I then modified the modeline, mame opens fine now, still no 1024x768, I do see 1024x384, wish I could multiply that 384 by 2 :). Thank you for resolving the mame issue, so now I imagine I return to adjusting the modeline?  I am using 384x224 @ 60p to adjust my 15.7khz modeline.  I can get it to fit horizontally, but vertically it is off center.  Do I ever adjust verticle settings via arcade_osd?

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2012, 04:41:57 pm »
Hi Waglo,

Vertical amplitude cannot be adjusted by software as you have guessed, it's something inherent to CRT technology. You need to use your monitor controls if you want to expand the raster up to the screen borders, as operators used to do when switching pcbs. Most arcade games are in the range of 224 to 256 lines, so a you usually find an average vertical adjustment or if you really want a perfect fit you need to readjust for each of them.

Please post here your ModeList.txt, I'd really like to see what's going on with the 1024x768 mode.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2012, 05:35:52 pm »
Hi, can I adjust V-Center but not the other options?  I have attached my modelist.txt.  Please advise.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2012, 05:45:06 pm »
Hi, can I adjust V-Center but not the other options?

Not sure what you mean. V-center can be adjusted through Arcade_OSD because it just modifies the relative size of the margins. However the vertical amplitude does not depend on size of the margins, contrary to horizontal amplitude.

Well the 1024x768 is being created:

[563]1024 x 768 @ 60.000000[0001][waglo].................R:OK/V:OK [563]1024 x 768 @ 60 [5][60.003838 d= +0.003838 Hz][0002]/coolridr/[waglo]

So it could be it's being blocked by your monitor's EDID, disable "Lock unsupported modes" in Arcade_OSD and probably check the system's screen properties tab/monitor and uncheck "Hide modes this monitor can't display".
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2012, 06:07:55 pm »
Hi, the reason I would like to use the v-center is to at least have the games centered vertically so I can just expand the vertical size and not have to do any more adjustments on my monitor other than that.  I tried what you told me, it worked, you were right, my monitor now displays 1024x768, although at the dot pitch, it is hard to read and I believe 800x600 is easier to use. 

I think I may have just discovered something interesting about the NEC XM2950, while playing with adjustments and storing user presets, I assumed it could only store 1 user preset for the whole monitor. I think I might be able to store a user preset for each individual resolution :D! If this proves to be true, I might be able to have every game display perfectly with all my vertical adjustments stored in the monitor.  I'm very excited at the moment.  I'll report back in an hour, I have all CPS2 games displaying as nice as I can without opening the monitor up.  Neo-Geo games have to giant black borders on the sides.  How do I create a modeline just for neo-geo games ( I imagine 384x240 resolution)?  Thank you for everything, I feel like I'm really getting somewhere now, a few days ago I had no idea what I was looking at.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2012, 06:28:14 pm »
According to the manual your monitor retrace time is just 0.55 ms, so probably using this value will help creating modes more centered on the vertical:

monitor_specs0    15700-16200, 50-62, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.064, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 256, 384

This value (vertical back porch) should be as low as possible, before you start missing lines o the top.

Neogeo games like mslug use 320x224 but have black borders on the sides, this was on the original boards too.

Having presets for individual resolutions sounds great!
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2012, 07:06:29 pm »
Hi, I changed the retrace time, wow, it lines up soooo much better, then I just had to move the screen about 3 lines down with the monitor controls, and then saved it on the presets :).  I changed my modeline that had v-center adjustments, all my modeline has now is the horizontal adjustments and the new retrace time, CPS2/3 games display as good as I can get it without taking my monitor apart to fine tune it further.

I opened neo-geo.zip to access the test grid.  On the left side, the white border is about 2cm short of the screen margin, so it makes the black bar on the left side of the neo-geo game look very large.  How do I expand the left side of the screen for neo-geo games, or for the particular resolution?


Left border:


IMG_1890 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr

Right Border (very nice):


IMG_1891 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr

There is another odd issue, if I open Street Fighter 3: Third Strike first and then open up a Neo-Geo game, the Neo-Geo game goes from the geometry in the pictures above, to having two large black bars on each side of the screen (horizontal geometry squished).  I tested with Super Street Fighter 2 first, it worked perfect.  If I open a Neo-Geo game first, then the geometry is like the pictures above and not too bad.  I made a log of Street Fighter 3: Third strike and King of Fighters 98, but the problem happens when KOF 98 is ran right after SF3 in Mame.  When generating the logs, I ran Sf3 and then exited to run KOF98, so I don't know if the issue was captured in the KOF98 log.  Please advise.

KOF 98 run first:


IMG_1896 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr

SF3: Third Strike run first, then KOF 98 (now squished):


IMG_1895 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 04:10:59 pm by Waglo »

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 08:11:55 pm »
Hi, Calamity, your on-going support would be greatly appreciated :).

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 10:35:13 am »
Hi Calamity!
Could you help me in finding the right monitor_spec configuration for a
HANTAREX MTC900 ?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2012, 05:04:03 pm »
I opened neo-geo.zip to access the test grid.  On the left side, the white border is about 2cm short of the screen margin, so it makes the black bar on the left side of the neo-geo game look very large.  How do I expand the left side of the screen for neo-geo games, or for the particular resolution?

The left border is controlled through the VerticalBackPorch, try reducing this value a bit:

monitor_specs0    15700-16200, 50-62, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.064, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 256, 384

In order to get more accurate values, is often better to center a high horizontal resolution in Arcade_OSD to get the values from, so you have a better granularity.

You're not supposed to apply different settings to different games, but generating a general monitor_specs line for all cases. However you can force some specific values for a game by creating a separate ini file for the game with the monitor_specs line in it (I don't recommend this).

Quote
There is another odd issue, if I open Street Fighter 3: Third Strike first and then open up a Neo-Geo game, the Neo-Geo game goes from the geometry in the pictures above, to having two large black bars on each side of the screen (horizontal geometry squished).  I tested with Super Street Fighter 2 first, it worked perfect.

The video signal based on modelines with the ATI method used by GM is supposed to be deterministic, so probably this issue is monitor related. Maybe your monitor is applying different memorized geometry settings depending on the input mode, and for some reason it doesn't detect the new resolution after the sf3 one, or it's applying the wrong values.

I guess you're launching games one after the other from MAME's internal menu. While this is supposed to be ok, you probably should set up a frontend and lauch games from it, this way there will be a forced mode switch between game/desktop/game so your monitor might have a chance to detect resolution changes properly...
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Calamity

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2012, 05:28:30 pm »
Hi Calamity!
Could you help me in finding the right monitor_spec configuration for a
HANTAREX MTC900 ?

Thanks in advance.

Try the cga settings as a starting point, however consider opening a new thread so we can deal with your monitor there.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2012, 07:34:11 pm »
Hi Calamity, thanks for the reply,

After playing a bit more with the settings, and having fine-tuned some settings from a post I found while googling and using your advice on the retrace timing, I'm pleased to report my first modeline findings for all future and present NEC XM 2950 owners:

monitor_specs0:  15700-16200, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.055, 0, 0, 256, 384

:)  This modeline works wonderfully in both CPS2 games and Neo-Geo games that I have tested.  The only further adjustments I did was move the screen to the right about 2 lines using the monitors remote control.  Thanks for your help Calamity, hopefully I can count on your continued help in finding the other modelines.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 08:14:48 pm by Waglo »

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2012, 06:31:07 pm »
I'm not sure if this is related to your issues, but NeoGeo is an odd bird in that games often have extra "crap" on the sides that the arcade operator would push off-screen by adjusting the monitor settings.  If I recall correctly, there's an option in the MAME internal menu that allows you to show the screen with a black border around it that obscures the "crap".  I think there's also an option that crops the game screen, but it won't yield arcade-accurate results on an arcade monitor.  I thought there was a MAME FAQ about it, but I can't find it at the moment.

MORE INFO:

http://mamedev.org/devwiki/index.php/MAME_0.122u4
Quote
David Haywood and Aaron Giles added a default layout to neogeo games allowing for either cropping or stretching to the alternate 304x224 layout. Removed default cropping in the driver.

Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2012, 09:22:32 pm »
Hi Calamity, things have been going well for a while but I finally loaded Pac-Man and noticed that the upper and lower verticle boundries are cut off, you can see this in the following picture:


IMG_1919 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr

My other games display fine, but Pac-Man ( the only verticle game I have at the moment ) does not fully display, is there a fix for this?

Here is how it should display:

http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2008/07/pacman_500px.jpg

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2012, 09:48:27 am »
Hi Waglo,

At this point, I'm not sure what your current settings are, please post here all the monitor_specs lines you're using so I can point you to the right direction. Also, consider upgrading to the new version, as it allows more control over the monitor ranges.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2012, 02:08:03 pm »
My monitor specs line are the following:

monitor_specs0:  15700-16200, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.055, 0, 0, 256, 384

My horizontal games ( Street Fighter 2, King of Fighters 98, Simpsons etc...) all display fine, its games like Pac-Man that are vertical that have the bottom and top cut off.  Thanks for the continued support, I'll look into upgrading my GM later today.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2012, 02:17:25 pm »
That's normal, you're limiting the vertical resolution to 256.

So you discarded the rest of monitor_specs, didn't you? I mean, that monitor_specs line is the only one defined in mame.ini, true?

Ok, add the following line *after* the one you already have:
monitor_specs1    18500-19000, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.055, 0, 0, 288, 512

When you try this, create a log and paste it here, just in case:

groovymame pacman -v -md 4 > pacman.txt
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2012, 03:30:02 pm »
Hi, I only had Monitor_Specs0, you are right, I added the modeline you gave me, the vertical overscan was reduced but not eliminated.  I wasn't able to run Contra before ( 224x280 res I believe).  Here are pictures of the improvement in both Pac-Man and Contra and a log of Pac-Man.  How can I fine tune the vertical adjustment to get the last of the screen to fit in?  Thanks again Calamity.


IMG_1921 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr


IMG_1920 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr



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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2012, 04:24:03 pm »
This line you posted:

monitor_specs0:  15700-16200, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.055, 0, 0, 256, 384

Shouldn't this value be actually 0.550? 0.055 seems too low.

Anyway, try increasing both vertical front and back porches, I mean these values:

monitor_specs1:  18500-19000, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.055, 0, 0, 256, 384

Start increasing them by steps of 0.064 (= 1 line)

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2012, 09:21:08 pm »
Hi,

You're right, the value is 0.550, sorry for the error.  Is there anyway I can use arcade_osd to verify my adjustments and then modify the modeline for 18500-19000?

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2012, 02:27:53 pm »
Sure, open a mode with 288 lines in Arcade_OSD, and edit vertical back and front porches until it fits the screen. Then use those values.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2012, 06:19:46 pm »
I noticed in the pac-man log I posted that GM is using 400x288 resolution, so I loaded that resolution up in Arcade_OSD and vertically adjusted it. I used those settings in mame.ini and pacman/contra still have overscan.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2012, 06:24:37 pm »
Please post your new settings and a log of pacman. If Arcade_OSD can fix the overscan then GM can too.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2012, 04:56:59 pm »
Hi, here are the settings and log generated according to the settings used:

Using my standard modeline:

18500-19000, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 288, 512

Check Log: mspacmanstd.txt

Result:


IMG_1927 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr


IMG_1928 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr

On the following, I have made adjustments to 400x288 resolution via Arcade_OSD:


IMG_1924 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr

Modeline with Arcade_OSD adjustments:

18500-19000, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.986, 0.148, 1.380, 0, 0, 288, 512

Check Log: mspacmanaosd.txt

Result:


IMG_1929 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr


IMG_1930 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr

Finally, I have decided to manually adjust the settings by adjusting the vertical front and back porch by increasing the values by .064, I began adjusting one porch value all the way to .640, when I try to increase above .640, the game image looks like it resets back to settings with no adjustment.  I decided to leave it at .640 but when I adjust the other porch value (.550), its like the image adjustment resets.

Manual adjustment modeline:

18500-19000, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.640, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 288, 512

Check Log: mspacmanmanual.txt

Result:


IMG_1931 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr


IMG_1932 by Christian Castillo1, on Flickr

Please advise.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 04:59:21 pm by Waglo »

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2012, 05:13:54 pm »
You're nearly there. Try this:

monitor_specs1 20500-21000, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.986, 0.148, 1.380, 0, 0, 288, 512

That's to use the same hfreq Arcade_OSD shows, I raised it a bit so you can get to 60.60 Hz.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2012, 03:24:11 pm »
Hi, I tried your suggestion and it worked beautifully, pacman is no longer overscanned :).  I still have one last issue with another set of vertical games ( Raiden Fighters Series).  They do not display.  I've made a log of Raiden Fighters Jet.

Here are my modelines at the moment:

monitor_specs0            15700-16200, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 256, 384
monitor_specs1            20500-21000, 50-62, 0.782, 4.693, 4.693, 0.986, 0.148, 1.380, 0, 0, 288, 512

The log to Raiden Fighters Jet is attached, it does say there is an error, please advise.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 11:55:00 pm by Waglo »

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2012, 08:19:23 pm »
I also tried setting up a modeline for williams games ( 400x256, 18.7hz?) but the settings are affecting my setings for 15700-16200, I guess we should address the Raiden Fighters problem first though.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2012, 07:29:40 am »
Hi Waglo,

At this point, I highly recommend you to upgrade to the new version of GM. The reason is that the monitor_specs format has been extended (now it's crt_range#) with two extra values that are going to help you a lot for creating individual ranges. Please remind these are NOT modelines, a modeline looks like this:

Modeline "640x480_60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 12.324 640 648 706 784 480 483 489 524 interlace -hsync -vsync

On the other hand, monitor_specs (now crt_range) lines are like a set of requirements that any modeline must meet.

Now, the new values are used for defining vertical resolution ranges, so you can specify different settings by vertical resolution groups, like this:

crt_range0  15700-16200, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 192, 248, 0, 0
crt_range1  15700-16200, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 249, 256, 0, 0
crt_range2  20500-21000, 50-62, 0.782, 4.693, 4.693, 0.986, 0.148, 1.380, 0, 0, 257, 288, 0, 0
crt_range3  22000-22500, 50-62, 0.782, 4.693, 4.693, 0.986, 0.148, 1.380, 0, 0, 289, 320, 0, 0

Of course you'll need to grab the right values for each range from Arcade_OSD, as you've been doing, it's just that now you have more power to send each resolution through the right crt_range line. This is the most important feature of the new patch.

So here, crt_range3 would represent the vertical games with resolution of 289 to 320 pixels, rotated. The horizontal frequencies are guessed, it's quite a straight forward calculation, and you can gather them too from Arcade_OSD.

There's a problem though. VMMaker is not up to date with GM, I need to find some time to do that. So it won't accept the new crt_range format. In order to get your required resolutions installed, you'r going to need some trick. What I'd do is to use the old presets for the Polostar monitor in vmmaker.ini, these will create the variety of resolutions you're going to need:

monitor_specs0    15700-15800, 45-80, 4.000, 4.700, 5.300, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 288, 448
monitor_specs1    16100-16200, 45-80, 1.280, 4.500, 6.420, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 288, 448
monitor_specs2    25100-25200, 45-80, 0.200, 0.400, 8.000, 0.040, 0.040, 0.640, 0, 0, 384, 768
monitor_specs3    31500-31600, 45-80, 0.170, 0.350, 5.500, 0.040, 0.040, 0.640, 0, 0, 576, 800

In other words, you're going to need some method to have 320-line tall resolutions available in your system, so GM can pick them and apply the new settings on them.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 07:31:29 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Waglo

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2012, 11:02:06 am »
Hi, I'll upgrade my GM, I do believe the more clearly definied ranges will help with my range issue.  I'll also use the polostar monitor presets in VMMaker and report back.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2012, 04:19:44 pm »
Hi Calamity, here are my following crt monitor specs:

crt_range0                15700-16200, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 192, 248, 0, 0
crt_range1                16201-16800, 50-62, 0.889, 5.333, 4.444, 0.992, 0.165, 1.378, 0, 0, 249, 256, 0, 0
crt_range2                19000-20000, 50-62, 0.782, 4.693, 4.693, 0.986, 0.148, 1.380, 0, 0, 289, 320, 0, 0
crt_range3                20500-21000, 50-62, 0.782, 4.693, 4.693, 0.986, 0.148, 1.380, 0, 0, 257, 288, 0, 0

Does anything look funny?  I have some questions regarding hz ranges and resolutions.  Raiden Fighters Jet for instance is being assigned the resolution of 432x320p by Groovymame.  When I look at the switchres information on the nag screen, it says 432x320p 19.980khz.  In arcade_OSD, 432x320p has a hfreq of 23.056khz.  Williams games like Smash TV/Mortal Kombat use a resolution of 400x256p 16.280khz.  In Arcade_OSD, 400x256p has a hfreq of 18.533khz I believe.  Why is the hfreq different?  This proved to be confusing when selecting my hfreq ranges for my crt_range settings for games, I thought I could just use the hfreq information for the resolutions from Arcade_OSD.  Also, my image with Raiden Fighters Jet @ 432x320p 19.980khz looks much different than the 432x320p 16.280khz settings in Arcade_OSD so it makes it hard to adjust my image for that resolution range.  Since I can't really use Arcade_OSD to represent the image at the resolution of 432x320p, I ended up just copying and pasting my CRT_range3 settings for CRT_range2.  Can you please help explain what is going on?


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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2012, 01:20:03 pm »
Hi Waglo,

Let's see... Did you test with the lines I provided?

Quote
Hi Calamity, here are my following crt monitor specs:

crt_range0                15700-16200, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 192, 248, 0, 0
crt_range1                16201-16800, 50-62, 0.889, 5.333, 4.444, 0.992, 0.165, 1.378, 0, 0, 249, 256, 0, 0
crt_range2                19000-20000, 50-62, 0.782, 4.693, 4.693, 0.986, 0.148, 1.380, 0, 0, 289, 320, 0, 0
crt_range3                20500-21000, 50-62, 0.782, 4.693, 4.693, 0.986, 0.148, 1.380, 0, 0, 257, 288, 0, 0

Does anything look funny?

crt_range2 is wrong, higher resolutions lead to higher hfreqs, not the opposite, so 289-320 should be after 257-288.

Quote
I have some questions regarding hz ranges and resolutions.  Raiden Fighters Jet for instance is being assigned the resolution of 432x320p by Groovymame.  When I look at the switchres information on the nag screen, it says 432x320p 19.980khz.  In arcade_OSD, 432x320p has a hfreq of 23.056khz. 

Obviously, because you're requesting GM to calculate the 289-320-line group or resolutions within the 19.00-20.00 kHz hfreq range, that's what you're specifying in crt_range2. If you want GM to use the same hfreq that Arcade_OSD is using, set the range to something like 23000-23100. Narrow ranges work better for targeting these cases.

GM calculates each resolution at the hfreq that's just strictly necessary to meet your hfreq ranges and the vertical borders you request.

Quote
Williams games like Smash TV/Mortal Kombat use a resolution of 400x256p 16.280khz.  In Arcade_OSD, 400x256p has a hfreq of 18.533khz I believe.  Why is the hfreq different?

I'm assuming what you mean when you say in Arcade_OSD a resolution has a specific hfreq is that's the hfreq it has after you've tweaked it to have a perfect fit, isn't it?

GM is using the range crt_range1 for Williams games because that's what you're requesting. You've defined that range as 16201-16800. If you want GM to calculate these resolutions at the same frequency that you have them in Arcade_OSD, use a range like 18500-18600:

crt_range1                18500-18600, 50-62, 0.889, 5.333, 4.444, 0.992, 0.165, 1.378, 0, 0, 249, 256, 0, 0

Let me know if this made for an explanation or I'm getting your questions wrong.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2012, 03:44:26 pm »
Hi, what I meant to say was that for instance,Raiden Fighters Jet in Arcade_OSD 432x320 has a hfreq of 23khz, once I adjust the image to fit my screen, it is 21 khz.  Now, I go into groovymame and in my crt_range, out of curiousity, I'll use a crt_range of 19000-23000khz, to my surprise Groovymame runs the game @ 19.980khz.  How do I select the correct range for the game?  Now I dont know whether my crt_range should be 19000-21000 because GM is using 19.980khz, or if my range should be 20-22khz because Arcade_OSD said that the hfreq khz is 21 for the adjusted resolution.

Also, Is there anyway for me to be able to make a CRT_range line for games that are 320x240 and below? I have my crt_range0 line but its settings vertically overscan games that are 320x240.  I could adjust the range line below, but the crt_range0 line below has the perfect settings for games with a vertical resolution of 224 ( Which are the majority of games that I play).  If it is possible, how would I add the line so that it does not interfere with the crt_range line below?

crt_range0                15700-16200, 50-62, 1.098, 3.293, 6.587, 0.064, 0.160, 0.550, 0, 0, 192, 248, 0, 0

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2012, 04:52:53 pm »
Quote
Hi, what I meant to say was that for instance,Raiden Fighters Jet in Arcade_OSD 432x320 has a hfreq of 23khz, once I adjust the image to fit my screen, it is 21 khz.

Ok. As you created the resolutions with VMMaker for the Polostar preset, 320p was raised to the nearest provided range (23-24kHz). We don't care too much about this, we just need the resolution to be present  in the system, so we can use it. So after teaking it you've found that 21 kHz makes a good fit. Good, now we need to port these exact settings to GM.

As I said above: GM calculates each resolution at the hfreq that's just strictly necessary to meet your hfreq ranges and the vertical borders you request.

As you provided a range of 19000-23000, you're actually telling GM to produce this resolution at whatever hfreq that's higher than 19000! GM makes its calculations and it turns out that the lowest hfreq that can produce 320p lines with your provided vertical porches is: 19.9 KHz.

If you want force 21 kHz here, you need to do one or both of these things:

- Use the same vertical timing values (porches) that you've obtained from Arcade_OSD (you probably missed this step), or/and
- Use a narrow hfreq range, of say: 21000-21100.

The second option makes GM to already auto-adopt similar vertical porches to the ones obtained by Arcade_OSD.

Hfreq is tightly related to vertical timings, once you understand the logic behind this it will be a piece of cake.

In other words. Your monitor is one of the very few ones that readusts vertically depending on the incoming signal. All video modes created by GM or VMMaker are geometrically valid, but we want to exploit your monitor's capability in order to avoid adjusting v-size manually. What we do is, basically, add padding blank lines at the top and the bottom, in the right amount, so we "compress" the active picture in the vertical. By doing so, we're actually changing Hfreq. But those lines are not strictly necessary. A proper signal would be possible without those. GM needs your input to determine how many padding lines it should add. If you let it decide, by setting a very wide hfreq range, it will add as few lines as it can.

As for the 240p range, just create a new crt_range1 and renumber the following ones. Then, set:

 crt_range_0 .... 192, 224, 0, 0
 crt_range_1 .... 225, 240, 0, 0

Remind you have 0-9 possible ranges. I always thought it would be enough, but we hadn't done the presets for the NEC :)
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2013, 11:41:50 am »
All I can say here is this has provided far more information than I could ever imagine for the porches of the XM2960.  Waglo and Calamity, you guys have my undying thanks for your discussion on this subject.  I will also attempt to work to somehow allow this to let linux users with an XM2960 properly use the monitor for games/emulators in linux, provided I figure the linux side out itself.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2013, 01:30:23 pm »
Hi NightSprinter,

Unfortunately we still don't have complete settings for the NEC. Waglo didn't confirm the later settings. If you ever have the time to test this and confirm it will be appreciated.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2013, 12:24:22 pm »
Absolutely.  Though I'm testing GA Linux right now (please don't slap me for updating packages..), I can do a quick throw-on of 32-bit XP Pro and give it a shot with the old X1300 card.  Sadly the only other working PCIe Radeon I have is a 6670 that is being tested in linux.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2013, 10:08:04 pm »
Alright!  I'm getting somewhere on the 25KHz games.  As one can guess, some XM2960 units cannot display that horizontal frequency.  Inserting these two lines based off the user guide's specs pages (which does jack squat about 15KHz modes, and states interlaced signals are not recommended.. odd) gave me some positive results:

Code: [Select]
crt_range2  31496-31600, 59-70, 0.318, 3.813, 1.589, 0.985, 0.064, 1.716, 0, 0, 257, 288, 0, 0
crt_range3  31946-31600, 59-75, 0.318, 3.186, 1.589, 0.064, 0.064, 0.793, 0, 0, 289, 320, 0, 0

I'll post a log of what groovymame does when I run a 25KHz horizontal scan game like Super Sprint when I can figure out how to make a log.  Right now I'm just trying to figure out how to add some of these more unusual 31KHz modes like 640x350 and 720x350.  Also, I've noticed that for Super Sprint's resolution it's using an odd mode of 1280x288 which compresses the screen vertically.  Shouldn't I be running it in something more appropriate like 1024x768 for the picture to fit?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 10:13:36 pm by NightSprinter »
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2013, 05:30:13 am »
Hi NightSprinter,

Creating logs: groovymame.exe romname -v >romname.txt

The lines you posted don't make sense, you're using 15-20 kHz line limiters (257-288, 289-320) on the 31.5 kHz range. You're limiting GM to those heights that's why Super Sprint is forced to run at 288 lines.

I see no reason why your XM2960 should not be working with 25 kHz signals just like the OP's did. Did you create the required resolutions first, by using VMMaker?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2013, 10:56:04 am »
Here's the log.  I apologize as well for the  way the pic looks (snapped quickly with smartphone), but as mentioned my model of the 2960 is all-digital with all adjustments being made on-screen.  As a result, it tries to sync a 25KHz mode to 31.  So for my case, I only have 15 and then 31-65 horizontal to work with.  But in this case, it DOES mean dual-scan 2960 owners have hope for a doublescan mode for any medium resolution games.  I just have to figure out how to safely scan it up from 25 to 50 as the manual I have states.

[Edit] I'll also post the manual for my version of the XM2960 just in case.  I have taken notice of the interesting "8415/A & XGA Interlaced Compatible" column on the chart for "typical sync input timing".  Since it shows at 35.587KHz horizontal at a resolution of 1024x768, it makes me wonder what I might be able to get as a result out of this..
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 11:20:26 am by NightSprinter »
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2013, 11:33:21 am »
Thanks for the manual.

Well, too bad it doesn't support 25 kHz, however for the few games that use this frequency you can double the lines as you say, if your monitor can do 31-65 kHz, there's no reason to use 768i when you can go for 768p. Yours is a VESA monitor, so you can safely use the 'vesa_768' and 'vesa_1024' GM presets (the number accounts for lines). You can keep this settings in a separate ini so that low res games are not affected. Keep in mind you *need* to make the resolutions available first as custom resolutions (native modes are not valid here), so that GM can operate on them and store VESA timings on them. So you may need to add those in ReslList.txt, (e.g. 1024x768@60, etc.). Notice that if you have defined monitor_specs lines for 25 kHz in vmmaker.ini, this resolution will be done as interlaced, but GM will be able to bring it back to the progressive world if you use the vesa_768 preset. Hopefully I was clear enough.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 11:35:49 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2013, 12:40:30 pm »
For the most part, I get it.  Slightly lost at the 'vesa_768' and 'vesa_1024' preset bits.  Right now I'm having to rework my vmmaker.ini file entirely to include proper specs to define for my monitor (despite not knowing the exact timing ranges for 15KHz).  But hopefully by tonight or tomorrow night, we both should be able to get what Waglo is hoping to achieve ready for him and any other users of the XM2960 variant that has digital controls. :applaud:  :cheers:

[EDIT]

Okay, looks like I've gotten a few interesting results.  I haven't done too much extensive testing, but it seems the X300 I'm using in Windows XP had done some strange things with GroovyUME after editing my monitor_specs lines for VMMaker.ini and ume.ini.  Here is what ume.ini contains for the two monitor_specs lines:
Code: [Select]
crt_range0    15700-15700, 45-80, 4.000, 4.700, 5.300, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 160, 288, 320, 488
crt_range1    48363-48400, 60-60, 0.369, 2.092, 2.462, 0.062, 0.124, 0.600, 0, 0, 240, 768, 0, 0

I'll also post the logs I've taken with Donkey Kong Jr, NES driver, SG1000 Mark III driver, Paperboy, and Super Sprint (the last two under three different CLI options, including the vesa_768 monitor option you suggested).  VERY interesting results, I have to say.  Using vesa_768 for some reason presumes the monitor is trying to sync at 25KHz (as I still get the horizontally-scrambled screen).  If I force the resolution to 1024x768, then I can get a properly doublescanned game running at 99.76% full speed.

Just be forewarned, posting a LOT of text files (and one ini file) before I have to run off to work for the evening.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 11:41:55 am by NightSprinter »
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2013, 11:44:23 am »
Now including the logs for Paperboy and Super Sprint.  Had to rename VMMaker.ini to VMMaker.txt just to be able to post it.  Popeye also strangely was given a 48KHz horizontal version of 512x488, which I do not think is correct at all.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2013, 12:20:31 pm »
Ok, the problem is you're not defining the line ranges (heights) properly. They're overlapping and causing absurd results.

Imagine the crt_range lines as filters:

crt_range0          15700-15700, 45-80, 4.000, 4.700, 5.300, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 160, 288, 320, 488
crt_range1          48363-48400, 60-60, 0.369, 2.092, 2.462, 0.062, 0.124, 0.600, 0, 0, 240, 768, 0, 0

With these lines you have, you're telling GM:

1.- I want you to recalculate all my available custom resolutions from 160 to 288 lines height into the frequency range of 15700-15700 kHz.

2.- I want you to recalculate all my available custom resolutions from 240 to 768 lines height into the frequency range of 48363-48400 kHz

First line makes sense. Second line is totally crazy for these reasons:

- The range of 240-288 lines can be calculated with either of the lines. While overlapping range can be of use in some situations, this is not one of them.

- Worse than that. GM will think that you are happy to have resolutions starting with 240 lines calculated as 48 kHz. This means that it will need to add hundreds of padding lines to achieve 48 kHz out of 240 visible lines, resulting in ultra cinemascope aspect.

This would make more sense:

crt_range0          15700-15700, 45-80, 4.000, 4.700, 5.300, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 160, 288, 320, 488
crt_range1          48363-48400, 60-60, 0.369, 2.092, 2.462, 0.062, 0.124, 0.600, 0, 0, 768, 800, 0, 0

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2013, 12:48:36 pm »
Will try that later tonight after getting home from work.  Also will post my xorg.conf file in its related thread to coincide with my Xorg.0.log file.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2013, 01:15:29 pm »
BTW thanks for the logs. I appreciate users that experiment by themselves.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2013, 11:43:08 am »
MUCH appreciated for the edits to those!  I've got even more logs here for you, including some really interesting stuff going on with the Playchoice 10 (making me wonder, if I can get my Commodore 1084S fixed if it might be usable for a secondary top monitor for it to run in dual-screen mode) via switchres.  The logs show it switching to the 48KHz 1024x768 line mode (as I've yet to find a perfect 50KHz horizontal mode for double-scanning 512x384 games).  Also, vesa_768 still gives me a scrambled and horizontally-rolling screen as the card attempts still to run at 25KHz horizontal.  Popeye seems to intentionally run at 512x488i (though wasn't that intended from reading right?), and no vertical game so far has caused issues when stretching to 3:4 aspect (with my back as it is, I've no desire to rotate that behemoth).

Semi-related: if I need to re-run VMMaker, what other systems in the reslist.txt should I enter?  I've so far added a few various PAL/NTSC modes for the Amiga (including interlaced modes), and 50Hz variants for the NES driver.  Or should I edit those out, and let VMMaker (under groovyume being renamed to mame.exe) determine compatible video modes via that method?

Mostly-unrelated: Check the GroovyArcade thread for my Xorg log.  Some oddities are happening there.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2013, 01:00:25 pm »
Hi NightSprinter, writting from a phone. Popeye original game was interlaced so that's correct. Do not use the vesa settings because each level,includes the lower levels (768, 600, 480). It cant be using 25 khz anyway, it must be 29 khz, the lower freq for the vesa preset, though your monitor probably cannt do that freq. Btw your logs are not complete, you forgot the -v param.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2013, 12:34:57 pm »
Hey there, got the corrected logs finally for you (while waiting for Anes86 to respond back on the Linux side of things).  Had to edit the 48KHz specs line, as what you provided me was causing UME to complain of an out-of-range setting for ProgressiveLinesMax (so I had to dial it back down to 768).

I've also noticed when testing a few NES driver setups (mostly PlayChoice 10 and the actual NES driver), leaving the monitor selection at "custom" made the audio pitch similar to when playing an NTSC cartridge on a PAL console.  Setting it to either Arcade_15 or Generic_15 restored the audio pitch and speed.  Lastly, I noticed also Donkey Kong Jr (as shown by the logfile for it) was for some reason wanting to use a 48KHz resolution instead of a low one.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2013, 12:36:54 pm »
And here are the remainder of the logfiles.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2013, 06:02:18 am »
Well, your 'nes-correct' and 'ssprint-double' logs are definitely interesting. I need to reproduce your settings here and let you know what to do.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2013, 07:11:11 am »
Yeah, not sure why that happens.  Especially with the fact testing Super Sprint without the doublescan option forces 512x384i.  I find that bizarre.  If I had a full list of medium-rez arcade games, and systems with emulators that can auto-switch resolutions, I could produce necessary logs for days.   ;D  >:D

[Edit]
Not sure if I mentioned, but for crt_specs1 I had to eliminate the virtual lines limit setting.  If it was kept the same, then Groovymame/GroovyUME would spit out errors about line limits.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 07:52:30 am by NightSprinter »
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2013, 10:40:11 am »
Ok, in range1 you should allow a decent range for vfreq, something like 50-61,  that will allow you setting 768-800 progressive lines range. In range0, open hfreq a bit, 15625-16200.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2013, 06:22:55 pm »
Any news on this, NightSprinter?
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2013, 12:41:11 am »
Still no luck with 25KHz games being run in 1024x768 with the CRT_RANGE1 setting.  Super Sprint (my main test game for medium resolution) still goes into 512x448i resolution.  Sorry if I haven't responded in a few days.  Been busy with work and trying to debug why the kernel I patched for linux just doesn't want to do the mode-setting magic.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2013, 06:23:38 am »
Ok, here is the problem:

crt_range0          15700-15700, 45-80, 4.000, 4.700, 5.300, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 160, 288, 320, 488

By setting intelaced-lines-min to 320 you are telling GM that modes starting from 320i are geometrically correct for you. So 384i is quite correct and meets the specs as defined by you. Of course you don't want 384i. While 160p may make sense for some very low res systems, 384i does not. That's why I usually set this value to 400 or 448 in my presets.

Now let's have a look at the log, I'm going to explain this a bit for future reference. Here are your two candidates. Why is 512x448i finally selected, when the 1024x768 is the "logic" favourite?:

   rng(0):  512 x 448_60.096i 15.715 [integ] scale(1, 1, 1) diff(0.00, 0.00, 0.0000) ratio(1.000, 1.167)
   rng(1): 1024 x 768_60.050p 48.400 [integ] scale(2, 2, 1) diff(0.00, 0.00, -0.0465) ratio(2.000, 2.000)

"y_score" is rated the first (lower is better):
  - 448i (scale counts 1, interlace counts 2; 1 x 2 = 2)
  - 768p (scale counts 2, progressive counts 1; 2 x 1 = 2) -> so we have a tie here

"xy_diff" is rated the second (lower is better). This value is calculated out of the 'diff' box first couple of values. You can see we're going to have a tie here too. But, attention here! This shouldn't be the case. If you had defined intelaced-lines-limit to 448, then the difference between 448-384 should be considered as "fat" that needs to be used as padding, thus scoring this mode down, so the value marked in red would be higher than zero and this mode would be dropped.

"vfreq_diff" is rated the third (absolute lower is better). Now, here is where 1024x768 is finally dropped. Its vfreq_diff is -0.0465 (value in pink). This is bacause the target refresh of 60.096153 can't be achieved, due to reaching the hfreq limit for this range, imposed by you as 48.400 kHz (value in green). Set this value just a little higher, say 49.00 kHz, and you should be there.

So, these are the ranges I'd use:

crt_range0          15700-15700, 45-80, 4.000, 4.700, 5.300, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 160, 288, 448, 488
crt_range1          48363-49000, 60-60, 0.369, 2.092, 2.462, 0.062, 0.124, 0.600, 0, 0, 240, 768, 0, 0

Either one of the changes should be enough, however both are better.

Of course I don't expect casual users to fully understand how the internal logic works, that's why I'm providing standard presets and trying to improve them constantly to account for edge cases. When I make my own presets I have the whole thing in my head and know what to expect, and still I usually need to troubleshoot them until they work fine.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 06:29:16 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

NightSprinter

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2013, 10:54:27 am »
Oh there we go.  Now it's switching to 512x384p in the 48.420KHz range fine (no need to even switch over to 1024x768).  Definitely intresting logs I generated with the Playchoice driver, but it's not too big a concern (I just need to figure out how to permanently set it into single-screen BIOS mode and use just the first screen).  I'd guess that the larger resolution is a good stretched one, due to the fact the original version of the PC-10 hardware uses two 15KHz monitors.  Regardless, my test games work and look beautiful now.  Many thanks to you for all your assistance.  If you need me to test any other peculiar games in the three ranges, let me know.
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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2013, 11:47:06 am »
Hi NightSprinter,

I'm afraid your log is showing that it just seems to be working by chance but it's not. It's actually picking 512x384 which is a system resolution, and that is not what we intended. That resolution happens to be double-scanned natively, around the 31 kHz.

Digging in your log I can see you're again using and absurd value for progressive-lines-min:

crt_range1 48363.00-49000.00,50.00-61.00,0.369,2.092,2.462,0.062,0.124,0.600,0,0,240,768,0,0

This completely defeats the purpose of the range definition model. For this hfreq range (48-49 kHz), you should be using progressive line limiters around the 7 and 8 hundreds. If you don't follow me here please tell me and I can provide extended info in necessary, but tricking the line limiters like that will only produce random results.

BTW you're going to need a 31 kHz range defined. You should name that one as range1 and leave range2 for 48 kHz.

As for the playchoice games (I do wonder why these are so popular  :D) you can set the '-numscreens 2' option. When doing this, make sure to disable -multithreading for these games or they will lock.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

NightSprinter

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2013, 12:05:07 pm »
Quote
So, these are the ranges I'd use:

crt_range0          15700-15700, 45-80, 4.000, 4.700, 5.300, 0.062, 0.062, 0.740, 0, 0, 160, 288, 448, 488
crt_range1          48363-49000, 60-60, 0.369, 2.092, 2.462, 0.062, 0.124, 0.600, 0, 0, 240, 768, 0, 0

Actually, that 240 bit is what you actually stated to use.  I guess you might have mis-typed.  I'll switch back into Windows and put it back to 768, 768 and test again.

Unrelated note: testing another distro no with that patched kernel no longer has the invalid issues with XRandR, just no actual mode switching.

[Edit] THERE WE GO!!!  I switched it back to min/max progressivelines to both at 768.  It now switches to 1024x768p @ 60.096Hz 48.437KHz Horizontal.  Even WarGods (despite the oddities with the voices) seems to run at close to correct resolution.  If you have any other arcade games with medium-res specs to test, or any systems for the MESS side with odd resolutions or resolution-switching capability, let me know.  For now, it seems that setting
Code: [Select]
crt_range1          48363-49000, 60-60, 0.369, 2.092, 2.462, 0.062, 0.124, 0.600, 0, 0, 768, 768, 0, 0 Is indeed the line we need to make many medium resolution games work on the digital version of the XM2960.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 01:16:52 pm by NightSprinter »
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Calamity

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2013, 12:16:24 pm »
Haha sorry  ;D

I just copied from above without checking.

Did you ever test GA live cd btw?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

NightSprinter

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2013, 01:17:37 pm »
Gonna do that again, and check it with the applied modes.
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Calamity

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2013, 01:36:11 pm »
If your monitor admits 50 kHz which I believe it does (?), you may raise the 49 kHz limit to 50 point something, then use 768, 800 instead of 768, 768. This will allow you run Wargods at 1024x800@57, with integer scaling instead of fractional as you have now.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

NightSprinter

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2013, 08:00:55 pm »
Ah, excellent.  I entered this also into VMMaker just in case, and it indeed runs at proper doubled 1024x800 resolution.  Shame that even a Core2Quad Q6600 is so zetta slow that some of the voice samples have pitch issues (in addition to an average speed of about 78.5% original arcade hardware).  I guess if I do get a Radeon 4890 as a backup and use XP64 for said backup, something along the lines of an FX-8350 processor would help more.

[Edit] Oh-kay.. what just happened?  Having remembered reading that the Genesis/MegaDrive used a very special interlaced mode for the two-player VS mode of Sonic 2, I just fired it up in GroovyUME.  Not only does it switch to 512x224 for the non-interlaced mode, but it looks scrambled for the additional image on the bottom half of the screen.  It switches to 320x448 rather nicely in order to display when running an attract demo of Vs.  I apologize for the pics coming from my Galaxy Nexus, but it should give an idea of the oddities I'm having with it.  I'm not sure how this could affect any other working systems that run in the MESS side of GroovyUME that can use interlaced modes.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 09:18:23 pm by NightSprinter »
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Calamity

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Re: Help installing groovymame
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2013, 05:33:45 am »
Regarding the Megadrive issue. You have the -lock_system_modes option disabled. Try enabling it, this is the default option. You probably disabled it at some point. GM is picking 320x240 system mode, which is "broken" with the moded drivers (required to disable the hardcoded double-scan), and we usually override it with a custom definition. That's why your seeing a double picture with the second half garbled.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi