I hunger... [finished!!!]

[pathdoc2]

I've never seen or heard of this game either but what a great score.  Awesome.  Nice work BTW.

[Grasshopper]

Totally awesome in every respect. I'm very jealous!

I particularly like the artwork. You'd expect a mish-mash of different CPO styles to look a mess but the end result is strangely coherent. It's given me some ideas for my panel's artwork.

I'm wondering whether you had any problems fitting the leaf switches? I fitted leaf switches to my 20mm thick control panel (18mm plywood + 2mm plexi). However I had to route out 2mm from around the leaf switch holders to get the switches to work properly. And where did you get the lamp holders from? They look pretty cool.

Also, why did you decide to buy the multigame board instead of putting a MAME PC inside the cabinet? Are the original games superior in some ways to their MAME counterparts?

Also, why did you cover the wood with plexiglass and then cover the plexi with the overlay? The end result looks very professional but it must have been a lot of extra work. Was this done simply to hide the joysticks' dust washers?

[OSCAR]

Totally awesome in every respect. I'm very jealous!

I particularly like the artwork. You'd expect a mish-mash of different CPO styles to look a mess but the end result is strangely coherent. It's given me some ideas for my panel's artwork.

The artwork does blend together surprisingly well.  They did a fantastic job with the layout, IMO, and it is the perfect complement for the m-w kit.

I'm wondering whether you had any problems fitting the leaf switches? I fitted leaf switches to my 20mm thick control panel (18mm plywood + 2mm plexi). However I had to route out 2mm from around the leaf switch holders to get the switches to work properly. And where did you get the lamp holders from? They look pretty cool.

No problems at all with the leaf switches, but they are the long style meant for 3/4" wood control panels.  Did you use short ones, maybe?  I wouldn't think so because I don't think you can even get a nut on the threads with a short button in a 20mm thick panel.  Short buttons can be used in wood panels if you don't use a switch holder and just recess a hole for the pal nut.  Then you screw a plain leafswitch directly to the wood panel.  You can see from the photos that this is how the Apollo's are doing their Defender panels:  http://www.appolo.com/artwork/wmg_defender_instructions.htm.

The light holder took me a little bit of thinking to figure out how to do, but what I ended up doing is just clamp the lamp base with a wire clamp (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Product_ID=1838&DID=7) and screwing them right into the side of the switch holder.  This sets them back a little from the buttons, but the lighter-colored ones still look fine.  The dark blue buttons don't show up very well, and Edgedamage is sending me some extended bases for those ones (thanks again!!).

Also, why did you decide to buy the multigame board instead of putting a MAME PC inside the cabinet? Are the original games superior in some ways to their MAME counterparts?

The Williams games, particularly Joust, Robotron, and Defender/Stargate are right at the top of my list of favorites, so I wanted to make some kind of dedicated cab for them anyway with a good control layout to play them.  Some people claim that it is different playing on real boards vs. MAME, but that isn't why I'm doing it.  I just really wanted to make a project out of this so I took a route that I haven't done before; namely a board hack.  I figure this project to be somewhat of an investment, and Joust/Robotron boards only increase in value unlike PC components.  Or in other words, I'm just doing it for fun....  

Also, why did you cover the wood with plexiglass and then cover the plexi with the overlay? The end result looks very professional but it must have been a lot of extra work. Was this done simply to hide the joysticks' dust washers?

Some of the Williams control panels were made this same way, namely Sinistar (although Sinistar used metal instead of plexi).  Extra work?  That's putting it mildly...  I figure I have about 8-10 hours just in the construction of the panel alone.  Yes, I did want to recess the joystick dust covers just for aesthetic reasons, and that also allows the tee-nuts to be covered so there aren't any depressions that may show up under the overlay.

I'm not sure how many more cabinets I'm going to build, so I figure it is worth my time to do things as clean and professional-looking as I am able to.  Building is my favorite part, so I may be dragging it out a bit and doing the little "extra" things like recessing the plexiglass top.  Needless to say, this has been the funnest project I've done yet, but that is because it is taking me so long to do it.  

[OSCAR]

Finally done (almost)!  The "Sinistar" text on the sides still needs to be touched up in a few places, but I've convinced the wife that it would make a nice winter project for her since she is much better with an artist's brush than I am...  











My current upright collection from left to right:  MAME cab, Mad Planets, Time Pilot conversion (Scramble cabinet), and the Williams multigame in a Sinistar cabinet.


This is what I did to save the original sideart while repainting the sides with a fresh coat of black enamel...  I had a few sheets of 10mil lexan film left over from a failed printing experiment, so I laid them over the sides and traced the artwork with a razor.  Next I took the lexan cutouts and sprayed some contact adhesive (3M Super 77) and on the backside of the lexan (just around the edges) and let it dry until it was just a little tacky.  After the adhesive dried a bit, I placed the lexan pieces over the sideart and used a hard roller to squeeze out the air bubbles around the edges.  I taped the t-molding so it wouldn't get any paint drips on it.  Then I just used a foam roller and painted the whole side of the cabinet.  When the paint dried, I used a pocket knife to slip under the edge of the lexan and pulled it up.  Worked like a charm!


Lexan glued over artwork and cabinet side sanded for a fresh coat of paint.



The cabinet side with the new black paint still wet.  I rolled right over the edges of the lexan film.  I didn't do a heavy coat because I didn't want a significant ridge between the new paint and the existing artwork.  I used Rustoleum black satin enamel which does a fantastic job with a single coat and leaves a nice dull-gloss finish just like the original Williams black paint.


P.S. -  This is what happens when the dolly "slips" away from your helper and your hand is pinned between the cabinet and the wall as it slides down 8 steps into your basement.  She claims that moving another cabinet into the house had nothing to do with it...    Luckily the cabinet was empty & I managed to stop it 3 steps before it got to the bottom.

The Sini-scars...

[Elkor]

Sini-Scars?

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's great!

(looks like it hurt like hell tho..)

-C

[vitaflo]

Ouch!  Looks like the Sinistar was hungry indeed!

Cab looks awesome BTW.

[F|end]

2 words man!


You rule!

 

Your neighbur must be a lucky fellow!

[Sasquatch!]

That is a beautiful job, OSCAR.  You've got me jonsing for a WM cab now too, dammit!

BTW, I like your dog just loafin' on the floor in the first pic there.  

[OSCAR]

Thanks guys!  This cabinet was a lot of work to put together, more so than the pictures would suggest.  I guess I have 300+ feet of wire alone since I jammatized the cabinet so I could also use it to play a couple of my jamma boards, too.

Defender/Stargate are so much better to play on it with this layout than on my MAME cabinet because I have a typical SF button layout on that.  I have short Wico sticks on this panel so the Reverse button is in very easy thumb-reach, which was a concern because the cabinet requires 8-ways for the other games and so I couldn't use a real Williams 2-way on it.  The layout works great with short sticks, even though the Reverse button is farther away than on a real Defender/Stargate cp.  It took me a few rounds of Robotron to get accustomed to the short sticks, but it feels just fine now after a day or two playing it.

For anyone looking for a different kind of project after you've built a few MAME cabs, a multi-williams may be just the ticket.


My next project is going to be to build a super gun using my NEC presentation monitor for the video since it is 15-31 kHz compatible and accepts a RGBS input.  Ah, so many projects and so little time...  

[CitznFish]

assuming I had a gutted Williams cab, what kind of costs am I looking at in creating a MW cab?

[OSCAR]

assuming I had a gutted Williams cab, what kind of costs am I looking at in creating a MW cab?

You can expect it to cost you $500-$600, depending on how much artwork you plan to purchase for it.

A working Joust boardset goes for around $220-$270 on eBay.  Eldorado sells them for $300 if you don't like taking chances.

The Williams multi-game kit is $140, and then if you plan to purchase any MW artwork from phoenixarcade.com...

Then the misc stuff like wire, buttons, joysticks.  You know how that stuff adds up if you end up buying it all new.  I lucked out and didn't have to buy any controls or wire for my project since I used what I already had, but I did buy a jamma harness from Bob Roberts along with a few other things like new coin door locks, flo starter, carriage bolts, etc...

All said and done, I would say I have less than $700 in mine.  And you could eBay it for twice that much, easy.

[hyiu]

VERY VERY NICELY DONE !!!!....

I really like how you finish your Williams cab....

nice...... you have so many machines....
have such arcade feel......

I wish I can visit you sometime..... haa haa....  

[Smack]

Oscar, I don't suppose you have any scans of that overlay by any chance?

I'm rehabbing another cabinet so I can do swappable panels and would love to use that artwork...

Thanks for any info!

Smack

[Grasshopper]

Smack: There's a fairly high-res picture of the CPO artwork on Phoenixarcade's site.

http://www.phoenixarcade.com/images/mwoversizedcpo.jpg

It would be a good candidate for vectorising.....
I've certainly been inspired by it.

Oscar: At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I really like the Multigame artwork and the job you did with the control panel. I wish I had your skills and time.

Would there be any chance of a closeup of the control panel showing a game running (preferably Defender) and with the buttons lit up? Next time my project starts to flag I could then look at the picture for inspiration.

Also, it just so happens that Defender and Stargate are some of my favourite games of all time.

[OSCAR]

Yeah, Smack, that would have been the same file I would have directed you to.  I don't have anything other than photos of the overlay.

I've put up some more pics of the cp in various lighting.  Do these work, or is there something else you would like me to take a pic of?

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cp-buttons1.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cp-buttons2.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cp-buttons3.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cp-front1.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cp-front2.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cp-open.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cp-back.jpg

I really like Defender/Stargate, too.  It's depressing to find out just how bad I am at them, though.  Before I blamed the 2X3 button layout on my MAME cab, now I don't have a excuse why I suck.  

It's all practice, tho, just like any other game.  I'm getting better, but it is a very frustrating game to get good at.


##EDIT##

Added another pic.  This one is taken with the "night vision" feature on the camera.  I'm such a geek.

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cp-night.jpg

[OSCAR]

I uploaded a mpeg of the control panel lit up.  The DV camera takes better shots in low light than my still camera and gives a better representation of how it looks.

If you are prone to motion sickness, you probably shouldn't watch this.  I'm not very good at taking videos with it yet.  

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cpbuttons.zip
(1.2MB)

[Wienerdog]

I'm such a geek.

Don't worry, you know your a geek when we call you by your BYOAC name even after we know your real name...  Okay, the night vision pics DO take it to the next geek level...

[DarkKobold]

Oscar: I've got a joust cab that was converted to be a double dribble... (shudder).  How did you get the paint off? I want to try and avoid paint thinner. I've not been normal since I used it to clean up a cocktail glass overlay. You say you used Goof-off? Did you have to take off the side panels?

[RetroJames]

Boy there is gonna be a run on this one...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3249527454

[OSCAR]

Oscar: I've got a joust cab that was converted to be a double dribble... (shudder).  How did you get the paint off? I want to try and avoid paint thinner. I've not been normal since I used it to clean up a cocktail glass overlay. You say you used Goof-off? Did you have to take off the side panels?

DarkKobold - You probably already saw this, but I explained how I did it here: http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=12786.

BTW - This must be the cab you picked up from Jim & Ed?  They sold a Joust that was converted to a Double Dribble, and it would be an amazing coincidence if you are talking about a different one!  

Wienerdog - I already knew I was a geek, but thanks for suggesting I have taken it to a higher level, as if I didn't already know that.  Heh...  



A little tech info I discovered while messing around with this project, just in case any of y'all are considering doing one of these...

I did the composite neg sync mod to the Joust boards (see http://www.robotron-2084.co.uk/techwilliams2jamma.html#video if you don't know what I mean) and had it connected to my GO7.  I had recapped the GO7 and did the sync upgrade mod to it, too (http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/mynotes.html#g07).  One thing I noticed was that there was still a top curl on the screen with the mw kit even after the sync upgrade to the monitor.  I could adjust it out, on say Joust, with the horizontal freq pot, but when I would exit and start up Defender, there would be a top curl going in the other direction.  Finding a "sweet spot" with the hor freq seemed impossible.  So I reversed the composite neg mod to the boards and connected it the "right" way with the H+ and V+ to the GO7.  Now everything is beautiful!  I don't think the GO7 really likes a composite neg sync, but it works sometimes on some games I guess.  Anyway, I just wanted to let you guys know what I found in case you experience curl problems that seems to vary from game to game with the mw kit.

FWIW, I was talking to Clay about this, and he told me that he also has had similar problems with a GO7 and he fixed it by putting a resistor between the neg sync's instead of just twisting the wires together as typically done when converting older boards to a composite neg sync.  Whatever floats your boat, I guess, but the picture is *much* better & stable using the positive sync's with the Williams boards and a GO7 from what I found tinkering around with it.

One more tech note - a stuck button input, P2 Start for example, will cause the mw kit not to boot.  If you happen to have a closed switch when you power up the game, it appears as if the game boards are totally dead.  Clay wasn't aware of this problem until I stumbled across it by accident.  Clay's menu software polls the inputs to look for the service switch to clear the NVSRAM, and a stuck button will make it lock up.  Figures I would be the one to find a way to "break" a mw kit...  
Anyway, once I found out I had a stuck button and fixed it, I was back in business!


A few more pics of the completed cab, higher res than the previous ones:

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/side2.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/cp14.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/front1.jpg

[OSCAR]

Boy there is gonna be a run on this one...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=3249527454

You will still need the sound board, but those turn up quite often on eBay.  Tested and working Williams sound boards sometimes go for around $20-$40 on eBay.

[Edgedamage]

I have been doing the sync trick also and it works great but have not tried it on a GO7.

[OSCAR]

I have been doing the sync trick also and it works great but have not tried it on a GO7.

I believe it is a GO7 thing.  I could get one game looking perfect, but when I switched to a different game the curl would come back.  The GO7's are prone to this composite neg sync curl from what I understand, but most people probably aren't using these old monitors like this.  I'd bet a newer monitor like a W-G K7200 would have no problems at all with a comp neg sync-modified wms boardset, but the GO7 sure didn't like it!  

[Edgedamage]

The monitor I am using is a little 13" nec monitor form a astro fighter cocktail.