Pinball Re-Releases?

[ArcadeDunce]

Here's a question.. why not re-release classic NEW machines to the collectors market?  I'd love to have an affordable, new Next Generation, or Adams Family...if the owners concentrate on the popular machines, of franchises still on going, i'm sure they'd get alot of classic collectors as customers...

I'd love to own a pinball, but used at $5,000's in questionable shape doesn't cut it

[Le Chuck]

Likely because it's not cost effective do to that.  Most of those parts were done on custom runs using economy of scale to bring down the price.  There aren't shelves full of old Addams parts waiting in the wings just to be reassembled into whole machines so they'd have to start the run over.  To redo Addams when there are so many out there already probably isn't economically fruitful, and that's if they charged an arm and a leg.  If pinball was affordable to produce you'd see new affordable pins.  You don't so that leads me to believe that cranking out a bunch of pins is a somewhat pricey endeavor.  Same thing goes of a certain classic cars which have a market that dwarfs pinball and it still doesn't work out.  Plus a lot of the companies that made these great machines aren't exactly in the pinball business anymore.

It's a nice sentiment tho. 

[pinballjim]

If there was latent demand for old games, their prices would currently be through the roof.

$5,000 for something that was $3k 20 years ago doesn't outpace inflation much.

[Ken Layton]

Licensing would be a problem too for the originally licensed theme machines.

[nickbuol]

That is why virtual pinball is probably in my future at some point.  I can't afford to buy more machines, especially a lot of the ones I like in the top 10 (http://pinside.com/pinball/top-100), and I don't think that I will EVER see a Medieval Madness to even try to play.  Sure I've put many quarters into Twilight Zone and The Addams Family, but a number of the top 10 I've only played once but would love to again.  It is NOT quite the same thing as a real silver ball like my ToM, but like I said, without going that route, I will never get to play those machines or any other machines supported virtually.

I figure that in a few years when I might actually be ready for such a project, so much of the remaining kinks and such will be worked out. OK, not kinks, but there are several ways to similate physical bumpers and action into sensory feeling, but it seems that the things that try to add realism are either pricey, or somewhat odd to me, like wiper motors inside a pinball, etc.

Anyway, that is my thought on the situation.  For the cost of 1 decent machine, I could built a virtual cabinet that could support many... and put it right next to my real ToM...

[MameMaster!]

This is why I finally caved and bought a VirtuaPin.

I know I'll never own a MM, BBB etc. I know it pales in comparison to a real machine- but I'm fortunate to own a few so I get the best of both.

I also like the fact that I have been adding a brand new table at least once or twice a month to my VirtuaPin literally in seconds after I download the files. Now that it up and running- its so easy.

Assumning that Pinball Arcade ever releases a PC version (cabinet ready) I'll be first on line for that! 

[ChadTower]

It bemuses me that so many people focus mostly on the few ridiculously expensive games and ignore the hundreds of affordable pins that can be had.  Pinball is about so much more than Williams.

The real win in the explosion of virtual pins is the original games that are being developed. 

[Le Chuck]

Assumning that Pinball Arcade ever releases a PC version (cabinet ready) I'll be first on line for that! 

+ Eleventy!  MameMaster! Johnson is right!

[nickbuol]

I don't have space for a slew of pinballs.  My "game room" is actually pretty darn small, and I have space for 1 more machine, assuming that I will be able to convince the misses that there is room for even that.  So even if I started shopping around for other affordable pins, I would still only ever have 2 playable machines.

Not everyone has a massive gameroom or space for rows of pinball machines like some people around here do.  My hobbies are too diverse for that, and there is more to a game room than just pinballs.  Mine, although small, has a pinball, MAME cabinet, pachinko, airhockey, and foosball.  The airhockey would have to go to make room for any addition, but I am OK with that.  Next door is a wet bar, and next to that is the home theater (which gets more use than the game room).  We have a large family room that I would love to put some stuff in to, but have been veto'd on that. 

[ArcadeDunce]

It bemuses me that so many people focus mostly on the few ridiculously expensive games and ignore the hundreds of affordable pins that can be had.  Pinball is about so much more than Williams.

The real win in the explosion of virtual pins is the original games that are being developed.

There where a few others. A Soccer pinball that had fireworks for multiball was kind of fun, but for the most part, Addams and GEneration where the only memory lasting ones that I'll play whenever I find one in good condition. Those are the only two I'd love to buy on my own.

Thanks for VirtuaPin..I'll give it a look..

[ArcadeDunce]

I just checked out virtua pin.  If they really do re-create the play of a live machine even 95% as good as one could hope, $4,000 for a full game would be a neat idea.  you even get a real dot matrix display to add to things.  How accurate does it re-create the live experience?

[ChadTower]

The DIY kit is interesting.  Finding a partout level donor candidate is tough when you want to rescue every ---smurfy--- pin you encounter.

[nickbuol]

Agreed.  I'd have a hard time killing, even an almost dead pin to make it a virtual box.  I'd start from scratch and make the cabinet.

[ChadTower]

Agreed.  I'd have a hard time killing, even an almost dead pin to make it a virtual box.  I'd start from scratch and make the cabinet.

The cabinet is the easy part.  That's not why people gut a real pin.  They do it for all of the pinball specific hardware on the cabinet.  Lockdown bars, siderails, coin doors, legs, that stuff all costs a ton to buy or you can buy a trash game and get it that way.

[nickbuol]

Never thought of it that way.  I was just thinking that a full on, DIY cabinet would allow for the most precise fit of the TVs without needing to use artificial bezels and the like.  Of course, I live in the middle of Iowa.  I don't see much of any kind of pinball around here, so finding a junker is REALLY rare.

[ArcadeDunce]

doing more research..could i download this stuff and play it on my PC now?  any links where i can go to get the program and addams just to test it out?

this might be my project for next year, but looks damn complicated..

[ChadTower]

Start at vpforums.org.

[PL1]

doing more research..could i download this stuff and play it on my PC now?  any links where i can go to get the program and addams just to test it out?

this might be my project for next year, but looks damn complicated..

Visual Pinball and Future Pinball were designed to play with a keyboard.  5 for coin, 1 to start, shift keys are flippers, enter is plunger, etc.

If you're looking for the easier one to set up and configure, start with Future Pinball.  It is a spin-off of Visual Pinball with a greater degree of standardization and no VPMame/ROMs.

You can get the Addams Family Pinball Gold Edition 2.5 for FP here.

VP and VPM are not very complicated as long as you use VP8 or VP9 tables. (99.9% of the tables you'll find)  Almost all the tables released in the last few years are very standardized. 

+1 on vpforums.org - You can find anything you need there including the step by step VP installation guide and all the essential files you'll need.  Follow the guide step-by-step and you'll be up and running quickly.


Scott

[Xiaou2]

I personally think its very feasible to re-make pinball machines.    People still buy brand new machines... and the quality of the new machines is usually quite distant from the past machines.

 A lot of the high end (and wealthy) collectors, would probably sell off one of their semi-decent machines... and scoop up a brand new machine to boot.

 And being that there are more people out there in the world today,  coupled with the advertisement of things like Virtual Pinball... its very possible to get more sales than you might think.  Especially from people who want a pin.. but are initially shy about fixing broken things on a used machine.

 You also could get arcade / route  Ops interested.  (especially if known problems & mechanics were improved) 

 However, to make it even more appealing... adding new features would also be a plus.   Possibly new modes, sounds, animations, etc.   Even with limited time spent invested in improvements.. would probably be peanuts compared to designing a new pin from scratch.

 Finally... although machines do not always fly off the handle quickly... due to the price...  they do eventually move.  Even if you cant afford one now.. and or dont want to use the credit card Yet... eventually people buckle under the weight of their passions... and their savings get spent.

 Other options would be for DIY kits.  Though I suspect that pre-assembled machines may be cheaper anyways... due to the mass part quantities ordered for bulk discounts.

 If pinball parts came down in price drastically... and an easy to program kit came out... all kind of interesting things could happen for Pinball.  Sadly, as far as Ive seen... none of the pinball PCB kits have 'basic-level' program-ability  (drag and drop style ease) that typical  non-programmer / artists  types, would be able to deal with.

[yaksplat]

I'd love a pinball kit.  That would bring together my love of building things and pinball.  But i don't see that ever happening just due to the cost and niche market.

It'd actually be nice if stern sold kits.  They're already making the parts, why not sell kits with all of the labor removed from the cost?

[nickbuol]

I think that the idea of a pinball kit is pretty cool.  Sure, there are miles and miles of wiring on a regular pin, but that is where you can really put forth your time and love of "DIY" into the project.

I've seen some youtube videos of people building their own pinball from scratch (with the help of John Popadiuk) and it took them forever, but if you could start with an unpopulated playfield, maybe the cabinet parts, and then all of the electronics, I would thing that money could be saved.  Sure, no real warranty, but it would be fun.

I guess a real die hard could get a NOS playfield and put their own stuff in it, but again, sourcing the items to make it authentic would be a P.I.T.A.

[yaksplat]

Jesus Christ.  How many times are we going to have to go through this...

Until it happens.

[pinballjim]

How much of a margin do you think Stern is really making?  If you bought a kit you'd still need an assembled playfield and wiring harness.  Well, guess what, bucko - that's the most expensive part of the process.

[ArcadeDunce]

spent an hour trying to figure uot virtual pinball..that introductary should help

I wonder how they get those pinballs to function so smoothly and cool-y in the virtua pin files on youtube..after just spending an hour trying to get the dang software to work

[yaksplat]

If you bought a kit you'd still need an assembled playfield and wiring harness.  Well, guess what, bucko - that's the most expensive part of the process.

I'd need a silkscreened playfield and no harness.  Problem solved

[pinballjim]

So then who's on the hook when you wire something wrong and blow your MPU?

[ChadTower]

I bet that's exactly where Stern makes all its money, too.  It's not like they make the PCBs, or the playfields, or the plastic parts.  They design, place orders, then assemble.  What he is suggesting would take Stern's profit right out of the process unless they marked everything else way way up.

[yaksplat]

So then who's on the hook when you wire something wrong and blow your MPU?

Who was on the hook when you bought a heathkit and popped something?

[Xiaou2]

A lot of money in Pinball IS markup.   A Mfg may get clear posts for 10 cents a piece in bulk.  But if you try to buy them at even a Pinball show, at a reduced price... you get charged like 1$ per post.  That 90% markup, makes it hard just to afford to repair machines... let alone make one from scratch.

 Ive seen wire harnesses being made.  A lot of the cost is in the initial time spent in designing and building the custom loom.  Once thats made, its pretty much run the wires, and cut.

 The real labor starts when you have to solder 600 connections.  As well as put in 600 screwed in posts, screws, nuts, etc.   They have some things to help, such as air powered drivers, plenty of space and organization, etc.
 
 The problem is that Stern isnt interested in remakes.   Nor is it effective / efficient for them to do small runs.

 A game like "Flying Turns" ,would be a great starting project.  A simple EM machine.. but using a new electronic PCB instead to drive it.   Flying Turns looks simple, but its actually very fun.. and can teach a person much more about playing Pinball.. as you Need to 'bump' well, in order to survive, and thrive.

 Its also infinitely more fun than any Virtual Pinball game.

[compute]

Although pre-order period has closed, Ben Heck and John Papaduik's Zombie Adventureland pinball is available in a kit form.

http://www.pinballinventor.org/games/benheck/welcome.html

[ChadTower]

How much was the preorder?

[nickbuol]

A quick google search reveals that there was a $750 deposit, and the game would run around $10,000!!!  BUT, it does include a robot that you get to design yourself... LOL

More info at PinballHead....
http://pinballhead.com/ben-hecks-zombie-adventureland-pinball-available-for-pre-order/

[pinballjim]

Anyone else get the impression that John and Ben were totally hooking up?  Better hope their relationship doesn't sour if you plan on getting a game out of it.

Popadiuk has talked big for YEARS and has little to show for it.  Don't hold your breath.

[ChadTower]

There is an awful lot of new pinball being produced for guys with deep pockets.