Argosy 4p game gets stuck on player 4

[Syco54645]

Hello,

Wondering if anyone has any idea as to what is going on here. When playing a game with 4 players the game will get stuck on player 4 for a few balls. Any ideas? Help is greatly appreciated here. At a loss as to what it could be. Google has been of no help.

Thanks

-Syco54645

[TopJimmyCooks]

em repair guides:

Read the first two in order.  the third duplicates a lot of info in the second. 

http://www.pinrepair.com/begin/index.htm
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair

I have no experience with EM pins but there are a few guys around here that do.   it sounds like there is something going wrong with the coil that decrements or resets the player unit back to player 1, but that's a guess.

also, if you put Team EM in the subject of your question and post it on RGParchive there are guys willing to help. 

[Syco54645]

Thanks! I was thinking that it would be the coil that controls the players but need to dig into how it works. I do not have the manual for this machine. Should probably pick it up.

[TopJimmyCooks]

from what I've seen, EMs only have schematics but not usually a setup/repair manual like later machines.  could be wrong.

[Syco54645]

from what I've seen, EMs only have schematics but not usually a setup/repair manual like later machines.  could be wrong.

well marco has the manual for sale. wonder what it is.

[TopJimmyCooks]

I stand corrected.  I took a quick look at the usual places online and didn't find a pdf of it, so that would be a good thing to have. 

[Syco54645]

There's nothing of value in EM manuals, you need the schematics.  Anyway, it's going to be your player unit which is a spiderwheel on a bakelit board.  If you manually actuate and reset it several times you'll probably clear it up.

Good information here:

http://www.pleasureandpinball.se/gp/gpbackboxeng.htm

Just manually work that thing several times first before you start taking it apart.

Thanks! Will read that and see what I can figure out.

[Syco54645]

I cannot seem to find a pdf of the schematic anywhere. Does anyone know if one exists?

[TopJimmyCooks]

I didn't find a free manual or schematic after a few minutes of searching the main places those turn up.  Guess it's a fairly rare game.  curious, did you try messing with the player unit at all as PBJ mentioned?  it's got to be something with the coil that decrements or resets the player unit. 

 I've watched about 30 CFH em repair videos recently from the pinball ninja website, and most deal with servicing stepper units, relays and switch stacks, very few go to wiring and schematics traced problems.  I was studying up for possibly buying my first EM. 

Also, post your problem in detail on RGP.  There are a lot of jackasses posting over there but the Team EM guys are genuinely friendly and helpful.  Just keep it concise and you'll get good information back. 

[Syco54645]

Weill I just picked the machine up before I posted initially. Today I finally cleaned and waxed the playfield and tossed a new ball in it. Oh I also did the chime box as well. Sounds much better. It plays well enough with just one player, anything more than one and it goes crazy at times. Occasionally it will reset all of the score reels but keep the ball count. And I was incorrect, it gets stuck on p3 and p4. I will watch some of these videos that you speak of, I think I have enough info to figure it out. I am going to do more research before I bother team em. Next step is a flipper rebuild. The right flipper is especially weak...

edit: TopJimmyCooks, where can I find this pinball ninja site? A simple search takes me to a wordpress blog's backend. Just getting into owning a real pin (have the digital one that I built) so this is all rather new to me.

[Syco54645]

New sleeves, stops, and end of stroke switches are what you need.

Yeah i have read that I should just rebuild the flippers. Been reading about it, doesn't seem hard. Would you recommend new coils too Jim?

[TopJimmyCooks]

Shouldn't need to replace coils unless they are damaged or you can't get the sleeve out. 

On pinballninja, you paypal a $20 donation to cfh@provide.net and mention that you are requesting a username/pw for the site.  It's the same link as in my first reply.  It is a blog with 600+ repair stories from a famous repair and restoration guy.  it's by no means essential but I find the repairs/videos very interesting and informative. 

[Syco54645]

Figured out that the game resets when I reach 500,000 (where the game awards a replay). Knocker doesn't fire, just resets the game. Any ideas what I should look for there?

[Syco54645]

There's nothing of value in EM manuals, you need the schematics.  Anyway, it's going to be your player unit which is a spiderwheel on a bakelit board.  If you manually actuate and reset it several times you'll probably clear it up.

Good information here:

http://www.pleasureandpinball.se/gp/gpbackboxeng.htm

Just manually work that thing several times first before you start taking it apart.

Well today I finally took the journey down cleaning the player unit. The reset arm was so gummed up that it did not move freely so I focused most of my efforts there. I degreased it and used a small amount of dielectric grease on it. At first it was always starting at player 3. The guide on the link you provided said that the spring for the ratchet would be 3 or 4 turns tight usually. When I took mine off it was only 2 turns. After it wasnt working right I wound that spring once more to give it a full 3 turns and it works great. Cycles every player every time. I did not remove the player disc so I didnt get to clean the contacts there. The only problems I have now are that it always starts a 4 player game (regardless of the credit count) and no replay knocker but the game correctly increments the credits. It then lights up the next can play light. Meaning if it says 1 can play it then will say 2 can play, etc. I am currently investigating the cause of these issues. Any idea where to concentrate my efforts for these? I assume that the knocker is either dead or missing a wire.
Next step on this (other than fixing the startup and replay knocker) I think is to replace the fuse holder. It is that crappy bakelite style holder.

[Syco54645]

Finally fixed the replay knocker. only problem that remains is that when you get a credit it will automatically start the next higher player game. so if you are playing a 1 player game it will automatically hit start for player 2. if you are playing a 4 player game the game resets. Does anyone know where to look for this problem? If it is definitely not in the back box then i will move the machine back against the wall so that i can remove the pf glass and work in there. Unfortunately the width of my garage is not wide enough to allow me to do both. Still have not ordered the flipper rebuild stuff or the schematic, I intend on doing that soon.