Author Topic: The supergun project (Read 7227 times)

OSCAR · « **on:** September 28, 2003, 01:18:38 am »

The next project I'm starting is a supergun (jamma test rig) to test/play jamma boards. Before I get too far along on this one, I wanted to see how well my 26" NEC monitor handled jamma boards. I've previously used this monitor with DOS/AdvanceMAME/VGA-cable hack's and with an ArcadeVGA, but never directly from a jamma board.

This monitor accepts a RGBS (composite sync) input via a 34-pin IDC connector, so I hacked an old floppy cable to the jamma harness for the video. I blew the dust off an AT power supply that I was never going to use for anything else, and hacked it by connecting the "Power Good" wire (orange) to one of the +5V lines, and then putting everything I need into a Molex plug for connecting it to a jamma harness.

So far I've hooked up 2 jamma boards, an Irem Skins Game and Data East Heavy Barrel to see how well the monitor syncs up. Both came right up without requiring any monitor tweaking, so I guess I can start making the enclosures!

AT power supply, jamma harness, and Skins board

Floppy cable connected to video from the jamma harness

Shot of Skins on NEC monitor

Another shot of Skins...

Heavy Barrel

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2003, 11:52:45 am »

There is a disturbing lack of zipties on the wiring for an OSCAR project there!

Seriously though, I always thought that supergun would be kinda neat to have. Not that I ever find myself trying out JAMMA boards a whole lot or anything, but still... Are you going to make this portable to carry around with you to auctions/sales/whatever?

CthulhuLuke · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2003, 06:06:45 pm »

I really wanted to make a Supergun with an old arcade psu and one of these things http://www.arcadeshop.com/rgb/rgb.htm so that I could plug in arcade boards to my tv through s-video! Imagine a plug and play CPS2 motherboard, some cool stuff there. I think my main hold back from doing this is I dont have an arcade monitor or a computer monitor with the right kinda inputs, plus I dont have the $95 for the convertor.
-Chu

OSCAR · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2003, 09:07:17 pm »

Quote from: Sasquatch! on September 28, 2003, 11:52:45 am

There is a disturbing lack of zipties on the wiring for an OSCAR project there!

Seriously though, I always thought that supergun would be kinda neat to have. Not that I ever find myself trying out JAMMA boards a whole lot or anything, but still... Are you going to make this portable to carry around with you to auctions/sales/whatever?

No zip ties yet, just testing it out before I get everything wired together.

I do plan to make it a portable rig, but for real portability an RGB -> S-video adapter would make it much more suitable, like the JROK adapter CthulhuLuke linked.

I'm not really building it because I need one, I just thought it would be a handy little rig to have and I already had all the parts to build one minus the jamma harness. I also have a few jamma boards that I am not sure if they work or not, so this gives me an excuse to build something to test them with. Heh...

paigeoliver · « **Reply #4 on:** September 29, 2003, 07:03:27 am »

Hee hee. Superguns have always been one of those things I have never really seen the point to. I always thought it would just be cheaper, easier, and safer to let my boardsets sit in their little priority mail boxes and then just emulate them in the living room than it is to start chucking around PCBs like they were NES cartridges.

Although I used to own an actual JAMMA cabinet. I didn't swap the boards around much though. Maybe once a month I would change the board inside (before Tetris Plus was in Mame it almost always ran that, then it switched over to mostly being TMNT).

But these days I no longer own anything that is wired for JAMMA, nor any JAMMA boards at all. Although I plan on adding a JAMMA edge connector to my upcoming BRAND NEW "Road Fighter" cabinet (got a complete NOS kit that is going to go in a refinished cabinet, and will likely get a brand new monitor. That cabinet is going to have a zillion little PCB nooks so it can hold a nearly complete set of vertical Konami boardsets, plus any vertical JAMMA boards I pick up).

OSCAR · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2003, 12:33:48 pm »

Quote from: paigeoliver on September 29, 2003, 07:03:27 am

Hee hee. Superguns have always been one of those things I have never really seen the point to. I always thought it would just be cheaper, easier, and safer to let my boardsets sit in their little priority mail boxes and then just emulate them in the living room than it is to start chucking around PCBs like they were NES cartridges.

Heh, it

CitznFish · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2003, 01:41:34 pm »

excuse my ignorance, but can someone define "supergun" for me?? Is this some sort of Jamma test kit?? I don't think I've heard the term before...

Edgedamage · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2003, 01:59:05 pm »

Same here I thought a supergun was some cool light gun shooter game!

OSCAR · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2003, 02:23:54 pm »

It's just another name for a jamma test rig. Do a Google search for "jamma supergun" and you will find a few neat projects.

Here's one:

http://www.chads.arcade.btinternet.co.uk/Supergun/supergunIndex.htm

You can also see the one that Raz made at http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/jamma.html.

OSCAR · « **Reply #9 on:** October 01, 2003, 01:56:08 pm »

Found a website that appears to be fairly new devoted to superguns.

http://www.sgrepository.com

I've browsed some of their examples, some of these guys build neat little controllers.

JoeB · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2003, 09:55:27 am »

WOW OSCAR!

Never knew about this supergun thing..really neat.

I can clearly see the advantage, if you do it cleanly enough, it takes very little room and very usable. Heck, people can almost install superguns inside their mame'd machines and play both if they wanted! (MAME or PCB)

But on the other hand, I'm worried about the video quality. All those super guns connect to the TV, and hence go through some sort of RGB -> NTSC converter. Won't you get much more realistic video quality if you have a real arcade monitor inside a TV box?

IceCold · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2003, 12:58:19 pm »

Quote from: OSCAR on September 29, 2003, 02:23:54 pm

Here's one:

http://www.chads.arcade.btinternet.co.uk/Supergun/supergunIndex.htm

At that site it says "It should be possible to buy an RF converter for a console (e.g. Playstation) and connect Red, Green, Blue, Sync, Ground and +5v signals to the appropriate pins and you'll have RF output. Quite often these converters also have composite output and SVHS output as well, or you can buy converters with just composite output if that's what you want.

If you try this then make sure that the converter actually *does* convert the video signal from the RGB format to another signal type - some of these converters merely provide an output socket for a signal which is already present but does not have a convenient connector at the back of the console. I don't know, cost cutting, eh..."

Do you or anybody else know any converters that do this? If I could pick up a cheap console adapter(for like $10) and be able to hack it to do what I need it to, then I'd be willing to make a supergun.

OSCAR · « **Reply #12 on:** October 06, 2003, 09:06:52 pm »

Quote from: JoeB on October 06, 2003, 09:55:27 am

WOW OSCAR!

Never knew about this supergun thing..really neat.

I can clearly see the advantage, if you do it cleanly enough, it takes very little room and very usable. Heck, people can almost install superguns inside their mame'd machines and play both if they wanted! (MAME or PCB)

But on the other hand, I'm worried about the video quality. All those super guns connect to the TV, and hence go through some sort of RGB -> NTSC converter. Won't you get much more realistic video quality if you have a real arcade monitor inside a TV box?

I think they are using the jrok's and vga boxes for portability at the expense of quality. I can see some people reasoning that being able to play the supergun on any composite/s-video TV would offset the more authentic look of RGB on an arcade monitor.

Shieldwolf · « **Reply #13 on:** October 06, 2003, 09:25:25 pm »

forgive my ignorance, but if I assume correctly I could basically plug in any pcb and have it run on my cab? I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but I just wanted it clarified.

OSCAR · « **Reply #14 on:** October 06, 2003, 09:53:24 pm »

Specifically, jamma boards, but yeah, that is the beauty of jamma. It's always a good idea to double check the pinouts, though, because I believe there are a handful of oddball jamma boards that aren't 100% the same as the standard. Capcom also had a 56-pin setup that isn't jamma, too.

Shieldwolf · « **Reply #15 on:** October 07, 2003, 12:12:02 am »

chalk up another one for ignorance.

How do you know if a game is based on jamma or is a jamma game?

spidermonkey · « **Reply #16 on:** October 07, 2003, 01:31:36 am »

Dammit Oscar ! I'd give up one of my fingers to know half of what you know. Everything I dream about, you end up building and making it a reality. Always excited when I see a new post from you about starting a new project. Everything you build comes out awsome ! Don't mean kiss --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- but just giving credit where credit is definitely due. The more stuff you build the more I learn so build on !

S.M.

OSCAR · « **Reply #17 on:** October 11, 2003, 04:37:34 pm »

Shieldwolf - KLOV is a pretty good resource for that type of info.

SM - Thanks! This project is pretty much just using up spare parts I had laying around, and that it really why I started it. However, I can already see myself planning to buy more jamma boards just because I will have a very easy way to play them without having to put them in a cabinet if I can't/don't want to.

After thinking about how I want to do this project for a bit, I've changed my plans. I'm making small controllers and maybe an even smaller supergun enclosure, probably just large enough to house the jamma connector and the controller/video/audio jacks. The more I thought about it, the less I need another large pedestal/controller to move around.

I made the first controller using an extruded aluminum enclosure that I got from here. The model I ordered was EAS-500 (black anodized). The extruded aluminum enclosures look a lot cleaner without any sharp edges like other metal project enclosures I've seen, and it is pretty hefty and easy to modify.

Here's how it looked when I got it...

...and after I popped some holes for the joystick and buttons.

Happ Comp installed with flat head screws c'sunk.

Serial (25-pin) cable hacked to wire the controller. The mating end will be used on the supergun enclosure.

Threw a little artwork on the enclosure. I was short a yellow button, and had to use a white one until I get a chance to pick up a yellow. I figured since I was making a new controller, I might as well make something that none of my other cabs offer, namely a good 4-button setup. I may also pick up an MVS board to use with the supergun, so this controller will accommodate that nicely.

Side shot showing the start/coin buttons.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #18 on:** October 13, 2003, 09:32:55 pm »

Kelsey, send that link to saint. It needs to go somewhere on the website:) You going to have pic of this stored on your site? This looks great. I'd do something like this for my cocktail cabinet.

OSCAR · « **Reply #19 on:** October 13, 2003, 10:10:02 pm »

Which link, probably the supergun site, right?

http://www.sgrepository.com or the one for the enclosure at http://www.lmbheeger.com/products.asp?catid=68

All the pics are at www.oscarcontrols.com/supergun. I will continue to put them there as I progress with this project.

armad1ll0 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2003, 05:43:36 am »

you've inspired me now. I've ordered a jrok.
I happen to pick up some CPS2 boards recently and I want to buld a SG just to test them now.

I'm wondering what's the most simple way to get a powersupply for the jamma board and the jrok. wouldn't a powersuply for an external harddrive case do the duty for this?

paigeoliver · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2003, 06:52:44 am »

Klov can be wrong though.

The Klov entry that (incorrectly) lists SCI as Jamma (it isn't, but is 56 pins) was responsible for me frying a Double Dragon board and an SCI board, and then it was responsible for the guy who bought the SCI cab from me frying an SCI board trying to test it in a JAMMA cabinet.

RetroJames · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2003, 07:54:16 am »

Oscar, for your next feat, build a supergun to look like an oversized atari 2600. Then build cases for the PCBs and sort out the wiring so you can have molex plugs on one end that plug into the "2600"

Oversized Jamma Retro Console! Finally, the 2600 will get pac man right!

OSCAR · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:30:10 am »

Quote from: armad1ll0 on October 31, 2003, 05:43:36 am

you've inspired me now. I've ordered a jrok.
I happen to pick up some CPS2 boards recently and I want to buld a SG just to test them now.

I'm wondering what's the most simple way to get a powersupply for the jamma board and the jrok. wouldn't a powersuply for an external harddrive case do the duty for this?

As long as you have enough amperage available on the +5V. The +12 and -5 (some games) is just used for the audio amp, so those typically have pretty low current draw compared to the +5V.

For most jamma games, you can figure about 3A @ +5V per *board* to be safe. Many jamma games have 2 or 3 boards instead of just 1, so if you allow for 3A per board you should be okay. There's a bit of a safety margin built into the 3A figure, but this isn't a strict rule. I've heard of some 1 board jamma games that can draw up to 4A. I haven't seen any data on current requirements for a CPS2 A + B set, so you may have to do a little testing to know for sure.

1hookedspacecadet - A great big 2600? Cute, I like it....

GodSin · « **Reply #24 on:** November 02, 2003, 12:33:40 am »

I have an AWSOME idea for a Supergun but not really sure if it will work at the same time

how about hacking apart a old Nintendo (NES) for a 1 slot Neo Geo MVS System

but with my luck I am jst too excited about even thinking of doing that, that I am sure I am overlooking how big a Neo Geo MVS Cart really is (I got 2 boards just no games ... yet)

what you guys / gals think of that?

armad1ll0 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 02, 2003, 12:48:50 am »

I don't think that a MVS will fit into a NES case.

GodSin · « **Reply #26 on:** November 02, 2003, 01:09:55 am »

how about this thin ... forgive me I just had a moke and this crazy idea poped into my head ...

a somewhat clunky portable handheld kinda system

LCD screen with the neo geo board behind it with a hacked PSX controller so you have the controller on the left and the buttons on the right

I know it would be a little clunky and not really portable but would be a cool idea

maybe even find some kinda battery pack that would support it all

Oscar your not the only one that swears at those dam gators in pitfall

ohh and you dont have to play in the basement anymore

you can play it over at http://www.langleycreations.com/pitfall/

BlackThorne · « **Reply #27 on:** November 02, 2003, 06:05:39 am »

A NES is definitely too small. My idea whould be to hack apart a VCR so it whould optically go with the rest of my tv/dvd and stuff.

DAmnb · « **Reply #28 on:** November 09, 2003, 06:05:24 am »

Hi Oscar just a quick question, on some supergun building sites they use a 10A fuse on the +5v and a 2A fuse on the 12v, couldnt see any fuseboxes on your wiring, so did you miss it or leave it out on purpose? Just curious

OSCAR · « **Reply #29 on:** November 10, 2003, 09:21:59 pm »

I haven't done any wiring yet, that was just a bare jamma harness shown in the photos to test the monitor. However, if you use a switching jamma-style power supply, those extra fuses aren't really necessary IMO since a short will normally just shut down the ps. None of the cab's I've seen with a modern switcher have fuses in the jamma harness. The older arcade linear power supplies have the DC fused right on the power board, though.

I think some of those guys aren't using switching power supplies, just AC/DC adapters, and fusing is a good idea with those.


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