Rooter's Pinball

[rooter]

The Idea

I finished up my first MAME cabinet over a year ago and wrote my own game for it.  You can see it here. Now I am ready to build my own pinball cabinet and table.  I was intending to create a Future Pinball table, but after going through a lot of the forums, I think I will probably make a Visual Pinball table.  I am posting here because you guys are way better at this stuff and I like having you look over my shoulder before I screw anything up too majorly.

A few years ago, I bought an empty Golden Eye cabinet for $40.  I wanted to use an existing cab because they are more solid than anything I can build and I really want to come as close to the feeling of playing a real table as I can.  The wood, glass and legs to build my own cab probably would have cost more than $40 anyway.  It's not a wide body cabinet, so I was worried about getting a monitor that fits well, but it looks like a 40" will fit perfectly.



The reason that it has taken so long for me to get started was the cost of the main screen.  A few days ago, I found a link to a 40" Sceptre 1080p display for only $299.  The deal was just too good to pass up.  I thought it was going to be a complete piece of junk, but after taking the frame off, everything seems very well made.





Current guts
Gutted Goldeneye Cabinet: $40
Playfield: 40" Sceptre 1080p monitor/tv: $299.  The picture and viewing angle are fantastic on this, but I'm not happy with the refresh rate.  I will have to put the screen back together at some point to use the TV somewhere else and upgrade.
Backglass: 27" AOC 1080p monitor $219
ASRock G31M-S R2.0 Micro ATX MB: $43
Intel Celeron E3400 Wolfdale 2.6GHz Dual-Core Processor: $47
2GB RAM: $20
64GB SSD Hard Drive: $80 (Windows boots in 10 seconds and I haven't even tried to optimize it yet.  I can't wait to see how Hyperpin reacts.)
4TB SATA RAID: $238 I need the space!  When the machine isn't being used for pinball, it backs up all the other computers on my network and is used as a media server for streaming music and movies to all the TV's/computers/iPhones/iPads in the house.
On-Board video:  Currently too slow to play Visual or Future Pinball.  I'm hoping I can use it for the DMD later.
NVidia GTX 460 1GB: $139.  I compared it with the GTX 550 $5 less.  The 460 is 20-40% faster and and runs 10C cooler!  Tried ATI and had major graphic issues with VP.
Sound system:  Harman Kardon Soundsticks III: $112[/color]
12 various buttons: $16
KeyWiz40-ST: $36
Stern/Sega/Data East Black Front Molding Lockdown Bar: $55
4x MOLEX 15-pin Connector Kit 0.093: $18
12V Power Supply: $8
24v Power Supply: $20

Guts to Get
LED DMD + Controller
Nudge detection: undecided.  Anyone?
Plunger: undecided.  Any suggestions?  I may try to go with a trigger like the one that comes with a normal Golden Eye machine, but I'm not worried about it because I will be painting the case at some point anyway.  I was thinking about getting Nanotech's Mot-ion set up, but I have only heard bad things about the plunger.
2x 12V-DC industry relay for flipper force-feedback


Am I missing anything?   Anyone else have any cool ideas I can stea... err borrow?

The software set up has been really annoying so far and I'm only tinkering with one screen at the moment.  It's such a pain to download a Hyperspin media pack, a Hyperspin video, a game table file, and all the ROMs separately for each game.  Future Pinball has been crashing on me and just getting Visual Pinball running seems overly complicated.
Edit: VP is getting closer, just need to sort out the back glass now.  Future Pinball no longer crashes on me.  Running everything on pretty low settings.  I can barely notice the difference in the rendering, but I can see a wobble in the ball at anything less than 60fps.  My friends didn't notice it, but I didn't point it out to them.

I would really appreciate any help/suggestions for the items listed in blue.

Thanks!

[TopJimmyCooks]

is it just the pic or is that display exactly the same width as the cabinet sides? If so, that seems like a big challenge. 

[drventure]

is it just the pic or is that display exactly the same width as the cabinet sides? If so, that seems like a big challenge. 

No Big deal. Worst case, you cut out about an inch for a "channel" on either side so the screen sits flush, put the side rails on and presto, perfect fit.

Awesome find. I'm keeping my eye out for a cheap pinball cabinet. I'm just about done with my jukebox build.

How's that sceptre for sideways viewing angles? That's the main concern I have. Blowing 300$+ and getting tv with crap viewing angles.

[yaksplat]

You don't have to worry about viewing angles with a plasma.

[rooter]

is it just the pic or is that display exactly the same width as the cabinet sides? If so, that seems like a big challenge.  

No Big deal. Worst case, you cut out about an inch for a "channel" on either side so the screen sits flush, put the side rails on and presto, perfect fit.

Awesome find. I'm keeping my eye out for a cheap pinball cabinet. I'm just about done with my jukebox build.

How's that sceptre for sideways viewing angles? That's the main concern I have. Blowing 300$+ and getting tv with crap viewing angles.

Exactly! I am planning on cutting the channel out this weekend.  I think this way works even better because the edge of the screen runs all the way up to the side rails.

I have been able to view the screen perfectly at all angles so far, no noticeable fading at all.  You can seen the pixels a little bit, but nothing out of the ordinary.  1920 pixels stretched over 40 inches will do that I guess, and you normally don't watch a giant TV from 2 feet away.  I'm probably just a little spoiled with my iDevices that have pixels too small for the human eye to make out individually.  I have a feeling it will be less noticeable when I put the glass on top.  I'll have to compare this screen up close with others I see in the stores next time I am out.  I usually judge a TV's picture by looking at it from the distance I would view it from my couch.

I had read that using plasma screens under glass was a big no-no.

[drventure]

I had read that using plasma screens under glass was a big no-no.

What I've read is plasma BEHIND glass is ok, but you're not supposed to lay a plasma screen flat.

but I could be completely wrong about that.

[mcseforsale]

Bump.  Are there any sites/forums dedicated to these?

I think I found next winter's project

AJ

[TopJimmyCooks]

There's a good number of them on the hyperspin forums because hyperspin has the best front end for a virtual pin cab (hyperpin). 

[rooter]

I routed out the sides of the cabinet and dropped the monitor in.  Here is a pic of it under the glass. 



I think it's going to look a ton better with a bezel and some artwork up at the top.
The second screen is just temporary.  I'm not sure if I am going to use that monitor for the DMD or just buy an actual DMD.  If I buy a DMD, I don't need to buy another video card.

More importantly, how do I move those annoying arcade mode future pinball graphics in the blues boxes!?  I would like to move the score and graphic to the second screen and remove the Future Pinball logo at the bottom altogether.  Do I need to edit the actual table?  I didn't see those items on it.

[PIZZ]

I routed out the sides of the cabinet and dropped the monitor in.  Here is a pic of it under the glass.  



I think it's going to look a ton better with a bezel and some artwork up at the top.
The second screen is just temporary.  I'm not sure if I am going to use that monitor for the DMD or just buy an actual DMD.  If I buy a DMD, I don't need to buy another video card.

More importantly, how do I move those annoying arcade mode future pinball graphics in the blues boxes!?  I would like to move the score and graphic to the second screen and remove the Future Pinball logo at the bottom altogether.  Do I need to edit the actual table?  I didn't see those items on it.

Ya you have to go in and move the fields to another area out of the way and resize the playfield. VP is great but a big pain in the @ss to set up right. The cab looks awesome so far btw, definitely thinking of building one again if i can get a cheepy 40" deal like that

[rooter]

Ya you have to go in and move the fields to another area out of the way and resize the playfield. VP is great but a big pain in the @ss to set up right. The cab looks awesome so far btw, definitely thinking of building one if i can get a cheepy 40" deal like that

It's a Future Pinball table.  Are you saying I need to edit the actual FP table?  I thought that might be the case.

[BobA]

If I remember correctly at least one of the Future Pinball logos is part of the FP program and is not built into the graphics for the table.  I do not think you can remove the FP logo because of this.  If you look at the graphics of the table you probably will not see a FP logo.  I checked a polygame table and Pollygame logo was there but not FP.  If you run FP you get the logo.

[PIZZ]

Ya you have to go in and move the fields to another area out of the way and resize the playfield. VP is great but a big pain in the @ss to set up right. The cab looks awesome so far btw, definitely thinking of building one if i can get a cheepy 40" deal like that

It's a Future Pinball table.  Are you saying I need to edit the actual FP table?  I thought that might be the case.

VP yes and for FP there is a field you can edit the DMD size , placement etc. Its in the toolbar. Once you have 2 monitors set up you can make adjustments.  Alot of bugs in FP too as its no longer being updated and supported

[racecar]

Whats the common cost to build one of these things? Always wanted to try do one

[rooter]

If I remember correctly at least one of the Future Pinball logos is part of the FP program and is not built into the graphics for the table.  I do not think you can remove the FP logo because of this.  If you look at the graphics of the table you probably will not see a FP logo.  I checked a polygame table and Pollygame logo was there but not FP.  If you run FP you get the logo.

That may be the case, but I don't think I've ever noticed it on any of the pictures or videos of other people's cabinets.  It's sitting there at about 50% opacity, so maybe I just couldn't see it.

Whats the common cost to build one of these things? Always wanted to try do one

I am adding the prices I paid for the items above for your reference.  I bet you could pull one off for Cab:$50, Monitor: $299, PC: $200, Keywiz+buttons: $50 for a total of $599.  I'm adding a few extra things like monitors, a beefy sound system, and a more powerful video card, but even with those, this cabinet is costing me half the price of a decent used pinball machine.

[TopJimmyCooks]

. . . . I bet you could pull one off for  . . .  a total of $599. 

$599

Left out a few things:  backglass monitor?  dmd monitor or dmd plus controller, 2nd vid card? bg glass, speakers? 
Interested to see how the first multiball game runs with a $200 pc.    

[/pinballjim mode off]

Just giving you a hard time.  Let us know how it really turns out cost wise.  I know from experience how this type of project can scope creep and snowball on you in a hurry! 

[rooter]

. . . . I bet you could pull one off for  . . .  a total of $599.  

$599

Left out a few things:  backglass monitor?  dmd monitor or dmd plus controller, 2nd vid card? bg glass, speakers?  
Interested to see how the first multiball game runs with a $200 pc.    

[/pinballjim mode off]

Just giving you a hard time.  Let us know how it really turns out cost wise.  I know from experience how this type of project can scope creep and snowball on you in a hurry!  

Well, pulling one off and having your dream system are two different things.  You don't need to have the backglass or DMD monitors at all, you could just put artwork up there.  You can get PC speakers for $8.  People have been running FP and VP for years.  A $200 computer today cost $1-2000 5-6 years ago.

I've got several decent, used pinball machines I'd sell for less than $599.  

Really?!  Where do you live?  

[PIZZ]

. . . . I bet you could pull one off for  . . .  a total of $599.  

$599

Left out a few things:  backglass monitor?  dmd monitor or dmd plus controller, 2nd vid card? bg glass, speakers?  
Interested to see how the first multiball game runs with a $200 pc.    

[/pinballjim mode off]

Just giving you a hard time.  Let us know how it really turns out cost wise.  I know from experience how this type of project can scope creep and snowball on you in a hurry!  

Depends how much you want to spend. To run most VP and FP tables you need at least a dual core with a decent graphics card. A while ago I built a basic 32" pincab I tore down that cost me less then $400 using stuff I had already. If I were to build one now id want to go all out though... widebody 40" LCD, full chrome and everything

[rooter]

Really?!  Where do you live?  

San Antonio. 

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=115884.0

I would definitely take Spy Hunter off your hands if I had a way to get it to Delaware.  I'm having trouble finding decent prices on anything around here.

[rooter]

Multihead:  The Good, the bad, and the Ugly

The Bad
I'll start with the bad.  My machine was running flawlessly with my NVidia GTX 460.  I was hoping to use my motherboards on-board video as the third output for my DMD.  However, my motherboard disables the on-board video when you plug a PCIE card in and there is no setting to change that.  On a side note, I have learned that I shouldn't put the DMD on the slower video card, every thing runs better if you put your back glass on the slowest output.  Anyway, since my motherboard doesn't have two PCIE slots, I picked up a GeForce GT 520 PCI card.  Everything seemed great at first, all my monitor identities were set correctly off the bat, which is very lucky thing.  The really bad part came when I actually ran VP and FP, the frame rates were completely unacceptable.  With only the PCIE card in the machine, I could run FP on maximum settings at 60fps (my monitors refresh rate).  Anything less than 60fps and I can see a wobble in the ball.  The game is playable, but gives me a headache.  I was getting 20fps on FP and what looked like 20fps on VP (I don't know how to check FPS in VP).  My solution, and the one I really wanted to do in the first place, will be to install an LED DMD.  I just didn't want to drop $300 on the display and another $80 on the controller (which isn't available now, and I don't know when it will be).


The Ugly
Windows F- -King 7.  I spent an entire night struggling and cursing this.  Hopefully this will same people from going through the same thing.  There is no way to change the identity of your monitors in Windows 7.  You can reorganize your screens and set which monitor will be your default monitor, but you can not change the actual identity of monitors in Windows.  This is a huge problem with full screen games as they start rendering on identity 1, regardless of where you layout your monitors in Windows.  If you have two screens with the same output type, DVI for example, and you need to switch identities, you can just switch the monitor plugs around.  If you are like me and aren't set up to use identical output types, you are kind of stuck.  My playfield display accepts VGA and HDMI.  My playfield screen looks horrible when connected with HDMI, but looks great with VGA (huh?), so I am using a VGA cable.  My backglass display accepts VGA and DVI.  For some reason, the max resolution I can use on my backglass monitor via VGA is 1680x1050.  If I use DVI there, the max resolution is 1980x1020.  Because of this, I was using a DVI cable. 

Now here is the problem.  Every time you plug in a new display, Windows 7 will redetect all of your displays.  Even if you boot up with only one display and then plug in a second monitor, your initial displays identity can change from 1 to 2 if Windows detects the other monitor first.  Here is the trick, Windows 7 detects monitors in the following order HDMI -> DVI -> VGA.  Since I was using DVI on the backglass, and VGA on the playfield, the playfield would always use identity two.  My solution was to use a VGA cable to connect my backglass monitor.  I lost some resolution on the back glass, but at least everything is working again.


The Good
I'll end this on a positive note.  I found an application called iRotate.  It's great!  It can change the orientation of your monitor from the command line.  To use Hyperpin, you need to leave your monitor in regular landscape mode.  I find this annoying because I like to stand at the front of the cabinet and see everything right side up in portrait mode.  Hyperpin will allow you to run a command on start and exit.  I use the commands below to rotate my monitor to landscape mode before Hyperpin starts and return it to portrait mode when it exits.

C:\program files\iRotate\iRotate.exe /1:rotate=0
C:\program files\iRotate\iRotate.exe /1:rotate=90


Sorry for the impenetrable wall of text, if you just wanted to watch the cab build, but I'm sure someone will benefit from this.

[rooter]

I picked up a mini keyboard and touch pad to hang on the coin door.  Now that I'm pretty much set up on the software side, I want to toss the keyboard and mouse just dangling around inside.  This should be good enough to get me where I need to be.  If I need to do something like install a bunch of tables, I will just remote in from another PC.



Now, if Groovy Game Gear would just ship my parts out already, I would really be getting somewhere!
*Edit: Just hours after posting this, my items shipped! Maybe someone is listening!

[mebronx2000]

I picked up a mini keyboard and touch pad to hang on the coin door.  Now that I'm pretty much set up on the software side, I want to toss the keyboard and mouse just dangling around inside.  This should be good enough to get me where I need to be.  If I need to do something like install a bunch of tables, I will just remote in from another PC.



Now, if Groovy Game Gear would just ship my parts out already, I would really be getting somewhere!
*Edit: Just hours after posting this, my items shipped! Maybe someone is listening!

i use that same one on all my cab it works great !!!

[rooter]

i use that same one on all my cab it works great !!!

Man, I thought I was being original!  Oh well, great to know it's going to work well.

On a side note, I found out that I should NOT use Windows 7 with a newer NVidia card.  I went and swapped out my ATI card to NVidia to fix problems with Visual Pinball, only to find out that the new NVidia Win7 driver doesn't work with Future Pinball.  I guess as the last part of my build, I will downgrade to Windows XP.  Maybe someone will come up with a fix by then.  I really didn't want to do that because I prefer the 64bit OS and I've had nothing but problems with XP64 in the past.  It was mentioned to me that using older video card drivers would work, but they won't install with my GTX 460.

Does anyone know the status of Future Pinball?  Is it ever going to be worked on again?  Last I saw there was a ton of drama.  I wish it would just go open source.  I wonder if we could take a collection and buy it as a community.

[Malenko]

I would definitely take Spy Hunter off your hands if I had a way to get it to Delaware.  I'm having trouble finding decent prices on anything around here.

What part of Delaware are you in, and got any more empty pincabs ?

lovin the project so far!

[rooter]

I would definitely take Spy Hunter off your hands if I had a way to get it to Delaware.  I'm having trouble finding decent prices on anything around here.

What part of Delaware are you in, and got any more empty pincabs ?

lovin the project so far!

I live in Wilmington.  Are you near me?  If so, I might have some questions for you.

I wish I had more cabs laying around, and the space to keep them!  I had to drive to Maryland to get the Goldeneye.  I just got my first actual pinball machine, a Motordome, last week. 

Thanks for the kind words!

[Malenko]

I'm in Newark near 273 and 95, I work in Wilmington right off of 202

If you spot any more empty pincabs, LMK

[rooter]

I'm in Newark near 273 and 95, I work in Wilmington right off of 202

If you spot any more empty pincabs, LMK

Do you buy any parts locally?  If so, where?
Do you know any decent places to play games in DE, especially pinball?
Have you been to 1984 yet?

[Malenko]

Do you buy any parts locally?  If so, where?
Do you know any decent places to play games in DE, especially pinball?
Have you been to 1984 yet?

No, I get most of my stuff from Divemaster or GGG
Other than my basement no, and it doesnt even have any pinball.
Not yet, but sooooooon. Sadly I was 6 in 1984

[rooter]

Have you been to 1984 yet?

Not yet, but sooooooon. Sadly I was 6 in 1984

Well, most of the games are from 1988-1994.  It's a cool place.  I'm always looking for pinball because I can play pretty much everything else at home.
They have a Sinistar that I was having fun with, even though I couldn't even figure out what I was supposed to be doing.
The pinball tables are Hurricane, Black Hole, TMNT, and Bride of Pinbot.
The bathrooms there are incredible.  Just trust me on that one.

[yotsuya]

Have you been to 1984 yet?

1984 is the most awesomest name for a retro arcarde. 

[rooter]

Got my illuminated buttons, lockdown bar, and backglass monitor.  The main display is under glass.  I haven't made a bezel yet as I think I will be putting RGB LED's up at the top and want to see how they look up there first.  Still waiting on the USB DMD board and Vishay display to become available.  The new pinball simulator that loads Future Pinball tables and connects to VPinMame has me really excited.  Ordered some misc force feedback parts that I will post about once they show up.

[TopJimmyCooks]

looks suspiciously playable.  get a few games in before PBJ spooges on it.   

[macattack]

Looking good, you should start a build thread and join us over on hyperpin forum. Tons of vp builds over there.

[rooter]

Thanks for the compliments guys!  It's definitely playable, if it wasn't I would probably have a lot more wok done on creating my own table.

Looking good, you should start a build thread and join us over on hyperpin forum. Tons of vp builds over there.

I do visit the Hyperpin forum often, but I started this thread over here because of my work's firewall.  For some reason it blocks the Hyperspin site, but let's me goof off in here.

[rooter]

Okay, this is going to sound really stupid, but here goes. 

I was told that I should get two power supplies to power my force feedback parts, a 12v and a 24v.  I was directed to the power supplies in the image below.  I didn't do much research as they were cheap ($28 for both) and I know others were already happy with them.  Now, here is the stupid part, I expected these to come with cords.  Am I supposed to just cut a cord off of an old lamp or is there a safe way that I should be setting these up?  I remember the basics from my high school electronics class, but the highlight of my electrical career was wiring the buttons and LED's in my MAME cabinet, so feel free to talk to me like I am a child.  Thanks!

[TopJimmyCooks]

from the pic it should be black 110V wire to the hot or Line terminal (L in the pic)  white to the Neutral (N) and ground wire, either bare or green insulated to the ground (upside down christmas tree next to N) in the pic.

you can buy a 3 conductor cord with pigtails at the hardware store, or just get an extension cord and cut off/strip the female end to make a power cord for your supplies. 

This all assumes you're in the USA.  If not, disregard.

[rooter]

from the pic it should be black 110V wire to the hot or Line terminal (L in the pic)  white to the Neutral (N) and ground wire, either bare or green insulated to the ground (upside down christmas tree next to N) in the pic.

you can buy a 3 conductor cord with pigtails at the hardware store, or just get an extension cord and cut off/strip the female end to make a power cord for your supplies. 

This all assumes you're in the USA.  If not, disregard.

I am in the USA and that is what I was going to do.  I just thought there was some sort of cleaner or safer way.  Thanks

[mcseforsale]

Here's your huckleberry:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1v/R-100661452/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=cord&storeId=10051

AJ

[rooter]

Here's your huckleberry:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1v/R-100661452/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=cord&storeId=10051

AJ

$14 per cord seems a little crazy.  I have a ton of these $2 cords lying around and I can just chop the end off.

[mcseforsale]

How about wire them in parallel and chop the IEC (C14) socket from an old PS.  It looks more pro, IMO.  I did that with my cab...

(sorry about the crappy pic...there's a drop light lit inside the cab in the pic..)



If there's a next-time, I want to do something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/IEC320-Inlet-Module-Switch-Socket/dp/B0050HH70E/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1336663277&sr=8-10

AJ

Here's your huckleberry:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1v/R-100661452/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=cord&storeId=10051




AJ

$14 per cord seems a little crazy.  I have a ton of these $2 cords lying around and I can just chop the end off.