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| Howard_Casto:
--- Quote from: Mikezilla on February 16, 2012, 06:28:43 pm --- --- Quote from: shmokes on February 16, 2012, 05:36:59 pm --- --- Quote from: Howard_Casto on February 16, 2012, 04:58:26 pm ---I hate to burst you bubble, but there are characters infinately more powerful than superman in the JL. --- End quote --- That doesn't really burst my bubble. That doesn't even really address the issue of Superman's lameness. --- End quote --- What are you basing his "lameness" on? Movies? Comics? Cartoons? His abilities? What? I dont know a ton about DC, but I wouldnt really say there are that many people/entities infinitely more powerful than Superman. EVERYTHING Superman does is dangerous. What if he was sleepwalking and wrecked an entire city block? What if he sneezes and blows a building down? What if he eats a burrito and a bottle of mountain dew and has explosive diarrhea? Superman is the one shining beacon of hope. He doesnt wear a mask, he doesnt rule by fear. You know damn well, when Superman comes to save the day, he does just that. He is the ULTIMATE hero. How much humor does Batman have? Captain America? Wolverine? Any of the X-men aside from maybe Beast? Spiderman cant be shot, stabbed, or hit by a car. Have you ever seen that in a comic? No he couldnt roll an ankle. He has super powers. Now if you said Batman, I would let you have that. Ill give you that, Spiderman has more of a personality than Superman. But Spiderman isnt nearly on the scale of Superman, by powers, age, scope or anything. I just dont see how you can say Superman is boring. --- End quote --- I would suggest you look at virtually any hero then. The Martian ManHunter, just for example, has all of superman's abilities AND the ability to shape-shift and become intangible. Not only that, but he isn't weakened by cryptonite. Captain marvel has supes powers as well and again... no weakness to the green rock. Amazo is eons more powerful than any of those guys and that's just a few off the top of my head. On the marvel side even characters like Rogue have all of supes powers AND the ability to drain powers from others! As a matter of fact, superman's powers are the generic set of powers they give to virtually every superhero. Actually, superman IS boring and he IS lame. At least he isn't without VERY CAREFUL treatment. He isn't the ultimate superhero, he's simply the first. None of the things you mentioned pose any danger to Superman, only those around him. Superman doesn't wear a mask because of poor writing. They expect the glasses to be a good enough disguise. Batman, the cap, wolverine, and the rest of the x-men all have tons of personality. Superman is very one-dimensional. Your right, spiderman isn't on the same level as superman.... because spiderman has depth and a relatable quality to his character while superman doesn't. Btw Superman is NOT a hero. The fact that he's seldom any any real danger means that he isn't risking anything and therefore isn't doing anything heroic. Now Superman is a nice guy... he could just sit on his butt and do nothing to help the little ants around him or he could be their overlord. So Superman isn't a dick, but he isn't a hero either. Batman is a hero.... batman is in mortal danger from even the lowliest of crooks. Batman has no reason to go out on patrol every night in defense of the city, but he does anyway, that makes him a hero. Basically the more super powers you have, the less heroic your do-gooding is. |
| shmokes:
It's the difference between Indiana Jones and Laura Croft (the Angelina Jolie version). Indiana Jones is a hero, and it means something because he is always in way over his head risking his life and nearly getting himself killed saving people and acheiving whatever other objectives he's after. Laura Crof, on the other hand cartwheels through rooms full of spraying bullets without the slightest care, absurdly taking out all the evildoers like whacking moles at the arcade. Her foes pose no actual danger to her, so the fact that she defeats them is meaningless. It's the difference between David beating Goliath and David beating his kids. One story is just more impressive and interesting than the other. Perhaps taking the overabundance of powers to the extreme will help illustrate where my bordom is coming from. Imagine if someone wrote a comic book about god. I mean the literal Christian god. And god just sits in his armchair and when some lady is getting mugged in an alleyway, god makes her suddenly not getting mugged simply by thinking about it. And let's say a volcano erupts and the lava is about to destroy a village. So god, without even standing up just makes the lava not hit the village, just by willing it. Does that sound like a fun comic book? Does that sound like an engaging plot? Superman's powers make's the things he does unimpressive. And his black&white lack of moral questioning makes his personality uninteresting. |
| ark_ader:
--- Quote ---Batman is a hero.... batman is in mortal danger from even the lowliest of crooks. Batman has no reason to go out on patrol every night in defense of the city, but he does anyway, that makes him a hero. --- End quote --- I'm not too sure about that Howard. http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/arts/comic-books/batman-sociopath.htm |
| Rando:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on February 16, 2012, 07:59:57 pm ---Btw Superman is NOT a hero. The fact that he's seldom any any real danger means that he isn't risking anything and therefore isn't doing anything heroic. Now Superman is a nice guy... he could just sit on his butt and do nothing to help the little ants around him or he could be their overlord. So Superman isn't a dick, but he isn't a hero either. --- End quote --- Um, what? Sooo… The only criteria for being a "Hero" is that you have to be in some sort of peril yourself? So... that time when a mother wasn't paying attention to her toddler and he fell in the pool and was sitting on the bottom and I jumped in, to water that I could safely stand in, and pulled him out, I wasn't a Hero to that kid or family? Is a cop who stops a crime but is wearing a vest less of a hero than if he hadn't been? How about the kid in school who sees a gun in another kid’s locker and reports it to the principal? This is a silly conversation, but Superman puts himself out there. He may not be risking his actual safety (or he may be, he can't know for sure all the time), but his actions and decisions do put those around him at risk. He also doesn't seek praise, riches, power, he sacrifices a regular life and the relationships that humanity as a whole pursues. He could be above all this, he doesn't HAVE to help. The fact that he does, and cares, and does so time and time again... That's pretty heroic, if you ask me. Astro City illustrated this pretty well with Samaritan I believe, where he tried to fit in as much good/saving/heroic duties as he possibly could. He couldn’t do everything, but he could do a lot. He tried to take a break at one point to go on a date with another hero I think, but of course that time meant others were in danger and he couldn’t pursue it. Giving up a normal life to help others with little benefit to yourself, that’s heroic. To use your Spiderman reference btw, Spiderman would have nothing to fear from a thug/rapist, but to that comic book staple of a lone woman in the alley that he saves, I’m pretty sure she’d call him a Hero and probably thank him every day if she could. |
| shmokes:
It's not the only criterion, but it's an important one. Why do you think firemen are so revered? Do you think they'd garner the same respect and mythos if they just sat behind a control panel and pressed buttons that activated ejc mechanisms installed in every building? What makes them true heros, what makes them admired and interesting is nOt just that they save lives . . . hell modern sewage systems have saved literally millions more lives than firemen . . . it's that they risk their own lives to protect others. Do you think the guy behind the desk operating the unmanned drone gets the same respect as the guy on the front line risking his life every day? And which of them has a story worth telling. Which has a story that'll put you on the edge of your seat. Superman is a hero by definition. But as a literary character, he sucks. |
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