Storage Wars Texas: Proof that now even arcade OPERATORS are stupid.

[Howard_Casto]

So much nerd rage that I had to post immediately after the episode. 

Ok, so on SWT the old guy found a cocktail cabinet in a locker.  He referreed to it as a "pacman" machine.  But it obviously wasn't.  The machine was, practically new, all black and laminated it had three buttons and a modern, 8-way joystick.  My first guess was a mame cab until I saw a mere 3 buttons and the light in my head went off  "it's one of those crappy 48 in 1 machines."  But you know I can excuse that guy because he's not expected to be an expert on arcade machines.  Anyway, my point is anyone with minimal arcade expericne would be able to determine what it was within 30 seconds of seeing it.  The real rage comes from when he takes it to an "expert" to be appraised.

He takes it to this guy that runs a "bar-cade" which is always a bad sign.  The guy then tells him that it could indeed be a pacman "it's one of the earlier ones" and that "they made the cocktail version because operators wanted a machine that saved space".  Ok first off, they didn't laminate the earlier machines, and it has modern controls and brand new ones at that... so it is obvious to any moron that it "isn't one of the earlier ones" and that even if it was a pacman at one point, it isn't now.  Secondly, everybody knows that cocktail machines take up waaay more space than uprights.  They turn it on and the guy who found it says... "shoot it isn't what I thought it was"  when the (wait for it...) 48 in 1 boot screen is shown.  The "expert" then says...... "no wait that's the boot up screen"  After the 48-in-1 selection screen shows up they do a quick camera cut and show the game running Ms. pac man.  The "expert" then tells him that it IS a pacman and that it's worth around 1200 dollars.

You know, I get that we are a bit more obsessive about this hobby than others and that maybe we might catch things that others don't, but you would think that and expert found for a tv show could be able to tell the difference between a 1980's classic and a mid 2000's bootleg rip-off!!!

[ahofle]

Damn, all those times in 1982 I thought I was stuck playing Ms Pacman on the cocktail when I really had my choice of 47 other games!

[Le Chuck]

I had a similar experience the other day.  I was all stoked riding in my friend's sweet looking mustang.  It had to have been a '67 from the "looks" of it... anyway we were kinda lost so my friend hits the OnStar button.  Man, I couldn't believe it.  All those stories about my Dad getting lost back in the day and all he had to do was a hit a button. Moron! The ride was in sweet condition, he must have put a lot of work in it considering it had power seats, windows, and a cool clutchless shifter (we can't drive sticks).  That Onstar was OEM though, you could tell.  Classic!

[Howard_Casto]

*sigh* Remember when A&E used to be low budget recordings of Shakespeare plays?

Guess I'll have to give this one a download and see if I recognize anyone.  I can assure you that arcade games and pinball machines are borderline worthless in this state. 

I know it man.... Last time I checked A&E stands for Arts and Entertainment, not reality shows.  I knew when they started showing Gene Simmons Family Jewels that it was the beginning of the end for that network.  I don't hate reality shows that much, I just think that they aren't a good fit for certain networks. 


As for the worthless thing... I can assure you they are worthless everywhere as is any other previously valuable collectable.  Classic cars are going for 5k to 15k, great works of art going for under 1000..... this damn economy has killed the value of EVERYTHING!

[Q*Bert_OP]

The "expert" then tells him that it IS a pacman and that it's worth around 1200 dollars.

...because they aren't going to say he bought an illegal multi-game on TV...besides, a cocktail 48-in-1 is worth $1200 

[Nephasth]

...this damn economy has killed the value of EVERYTHING!

It's a good time to be a buyer. Now go out and stimulate the economy!

[404]

*sigh* Remember when A&E used to be low budget recordings of Shakespeare plays?

Guess I'll have to give this one a download and see if I recognize anyone.  I can assure you that arcade games and pinball machines are borderline worthless in this state.  

what we need to do is put put a clip of the segment on youtube and send it to every game site on the net and expose this sham. Really, I have some small ties with some game sites. Thinking of doing this today. This gives legit collectors a bad name and is simply done to pander to bad reality television.

I had a similar experience the other day.  I was all stoked riding in my friend's sweet looking mustang.  It had to have been a '67 from the "looks" of it... anyway we were kinda lost so my friend hits the OnStar button.  Man, I couldn't believe it.  All those stories about my Dad getting lost back in the day and all he had to do was a hit a button. Moron! The ride was in sweet condition, he must have put a lot of work in it considering it had power seats, windows, and a cool clutchless shifter (we can't drive sticks).  That Onstar was OEM though, you could tell.  Classic!

Actually, you can put the OnStar service on any Vehicle, new or old by simply buying the OnStar kit. http://www.onstar.com/web/fmv/home

[TopJimmyCooks]

PBJ, you need to ship your machines and 48 in ones to NC to sell.  check out these local pawnshop guys trolling for idiots:

http://wilmington.craigslist.org/for/2786001918.html

"Works most of the time"!

[ChadTower]

Or, you can accept it for what it is, and that's a TV show about people who pull crap from staged storage units.  Very little about any of those shows is authentic.  Scam appraisers exist in every field.  For an extra couple hundred you get an "expert appraisal" of value that is stupidly high so the seller can turn around and get that from an unsuspecting buyer.  

How do you think so many houses got refinanced above actual market value prior to the housing crash?  They tried it with my house when I refinanced.  That guy appraised the house probably 25% over what would be reasonable given some common sense comparisons to recent sales.  Then they tried like hell to get me to refi to 100% of that appraisal.  I didn't, and then the market crashed, so I didn't end up underwater.  But I understand how a lot of people could fall for that and end up in trouble.

[DaveMMR]

Yeah stuff like this bothers me too, but basically these shows are more interested in story first and "reality" second. We just have to take what they present with a grain of salt.

[Nephasth]

So it was better to pay double/triple for them years ago? They're a terrible thing to sell right now. I've bought machines just to turn around and sell this past year, and it was very difficult to do so. But the ones I've bought for my "collection", I've been very pleased with in doing so.

[ChadTower]

Because you're not planning on selling any time soon.  If you're looking to put some money into something you can sell should you need the cash back, this is not a good item.

Then again, what entertainment type item is good for that right now?

[Nephasth]

Then again, what entertainment type item is good for that right now?

Very true. Still, a great time to be a buyer. Bad time to be a buyer with intent to sell. Should have clarified that in the first post.

[Nephasth]

It's contagious...

[Well Fed Games]

Yeah stuff like this bothers me too, but basically these shows are more interested in story first and "reality" second. We just have to take what they present with a grain of salt.

Agreed. If the junk appraised for low values, the show would be less dramatic, and therefore less interesting. Accurate price points are probably not their priority.

[Malenko]

Is it really any worse than when Antiques Roadshow tells someone they can probably get $10,000 for a trinket from the 60s at auction? I'm sure there are antiques guys that have a forum like this that say the same kind of stuff. Im sure even fewer people would watch that show if everything was worth $20

As for the other thing,  I only buy games I want to keep so its a great time to buy, but I'm broke :/

[ChadTower]

Heh, I remember Atariage going off on Antiques Roadshow because some guy appraised a beaten up 2600 and some games for a stupid amount of money.

[Donkbaca]

The lame thing about this stuff is now any idiot with a beat up arcade machine thinks its worth tons of money.  You go on Craigslist and some idiot posts a "rare colelctible" EM pinball machine that is beat to hell and asks 5 grand for it....

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah stuff like this bothers me too, but basically these shows are more interested in story first and "reality" second. We just have to take what they present with a grain of salt.

Agreed. If the junk appraised for low values, the show would be less dramatic, and therefore less interesting. Accurate price points are probably not their priority.

I don't think it that, so much as these dumb guys that buy these lockers on tv are so competative that they never want to admit that they just threw their money away so when rummaging through in front of the camera man they'll say, for example, that a dirty, beat-up, 20 year old toaster oven is worth 20 bucks, when I can go to any walmart and buy a BRAND NEW toaster oven for 20 bucks. 

Let's put it this way... if they actually price the stuff as they value it in their second hand stores I don't know how they sleep at night!

[Anpanman]

As someone who's very familiar with the way production works, let me assure you that there is very little reality in reality television.  This is the case for every single reality show.  Survivor, for example, employed literally hundreds of crew members and millions of dollars in equipment (cranes, etc.) you never saw on television.  A very large camp had to be built every season to house the crew.  I don't want to ruin anyone's perception of the show but those people were in no way, shape or form living on a deserted island.  

In the case of Storage Wars, the units are not staged.  The majority of the show's footage is produced after the fact, including a re-creation of the auction.  The only footage possibly shot as it happened would be the emptying the of the lockers.  Also keep in mind that all of the participants are paid.

[Nephasth]

Either back it up or don't act like you know.

Is this a new year's resolution?

[Le Chuck]

Legit question:  Due to the financial difficulties of late has the market for collectibles (be it classic cars, pinball, arcade machines, even juke boxes) undergone a temporary depression from which you antcipate will recover to say 2007 levels (or similar high water mark) or do you think that the market for these type of luxury items has been irrevocably adjusted to a lower base?

I, as only a casual follower of the pricepoints, get the feeling that the prices will recover some but not as much as many hope... at least not anytime soon, so in effect we are looking at the new base for this stuff.

The follow-up, for me, is does a new lower base prevent some individuals from entering the market?  If you can't get $10K profit from doing a frame up OEM restore on a "classic car" anymore does that mean fewer will be comercially available except to the die-hard and DIYers?  Is that how the community begins to come back?

I think so, but I'm interested to know how others see the impact on the hobby without getting too much into the politics of it. 

[DaveMMR]

As someone who's very familiar with the way production works,

Either back it up or don't act like you know.

Well, aren't we in a good mood today.

[Mikezilla]

My sister took a picture with Dave hester from the original storage wars. He was peddling his wares at our local swap meet here in SD. She said he had the normal trash/junk that regulars have there. There was an episode we watched the other day where he got a locker full of old books and he valued it at 15k dollars. It was a complete joke. She asked about em and said "How much did you sell those books for?" and he replied "15k just like the show said". Said he was a total dick, just like in the show. I thought it was great because he was selling his stupid yuuuuupp caps and sweatshirts. The dude is a joke. 

Really short too.

Sorry to hijack the thread but I thought it was sort of relevant.

[Howard_Casto]

As someone who's very familiar with the way production works, let me assure you that there is very little reality in reality television.  This is the case for every single reality show.  Survivor, for example, employed literally hundreds of crew members and millions of dollars in equipment (cranes, etc.) you never saw on television.  A very large camp had to be built every season to house the crew.  I don't want to ruin anyone's perception of the show but those people were in no way, shape or form living on a deserted island.  

In the case of Storage Wars, the units are not staged.  The majority of the show's footage is produced after the fact, including a re-creation of the auction.  The only footage possibly shot as it happened would be the emptying the of the lockers.  Also keep in mind that all of the participants are paid.

This is the case for survivor, but sruvivor isn't a reality show, it's a gameshow.  They can call it reality all they want,  but it isn't.  Also this isn't "secret insider knowledge"  it is a commonly known fact.  They have had several specials showing a behind the scenes look at survivor as well as in depth interviews with the host and producers where they say as much.

In the case of storage wars I find it HIGHLY UNLIKELY that they reshoot the auctions.....  If they did then why are there people with blurred-out heads so often on the show?  Seems like they'd manage to get permission to film all those paid extras for the staging.  

Now "talking heads" segments are filmed after the fact of course, but that is obvious.  There are also segments where they do a little "joke" at the end of some shows, those are often staged as well.... you can just tell due to the bad acting.  And that's the thing right there... if the whole thing is staged then why would their "acting" be so good on some parts and so bad in others

Oh and people get paid for starring in a tv show?  Really?  You don't say?

And to quell pbj's fears, no the lockers are not staged...  what they do is only show the really interesting lockers on tv... 75-90% of the lockers they actually get are never shown.  Again, this is common knowledge, they explained it on the behind the scenes special and there's even a little blurb about it at the end of some of the shows in the credits.  I think you might be confusing storage wars with auction hunters... pretty sure the spike tv rip-off of SW got into some trouble over staging stuff.  

Now do I know any of this 100% for certain... no....  because I haven't personally witnessed a taping... but this is the digital age, it's pretty easy to research this stuff.  

[Howard_Casto]

My sister took a picture with Dave hester from the original storage wars. He was peddling his wares at our local swap meet here in SD. She said he had the normal trash/junk that regulars have there. There was an episode we watched the other day where he got a locker full of old books and he valued it at 15k dollars. It was a complete joke. She asked about em and said "How much did you sell those books for?" and he replied "15k just like the show said". Said he was a total dick, just like in the show. I thought it was great because he was selling his stupid yuuuuupp caps and sweatshirts. The dude is a joke. 

Really short too.

Sorry to hijack the thread but I thought it was sort of relevant.

Heh.... yeah you can't fake that kind of dickery.   That's what I was getting at btw.  These guys have such a complex that when they over-value something (to make the other guys look bad) they would NEVER admit to the stuff being worth less. 

I'm not sure how you can hi-jack one of my pointless angry rants btw. 

[Anpanman]

Sorry, pinballjim, I didn't mean to spoil the illusion for you.  The auctions are recorded as they happen but a lot of what ends up in the final edit are pick-ups.  I'm sure you can tell the difference.

P.S.  David Blaine can really levitate.   

[Dervacumen]

I'll bet there are discussions like this on a weekly basis on message boards around the 'net.  Some message board member who specializes in [name your vice] realizes the show's made to provide entertainment and not economic investment advice.  Never woulda thunk it.
Now I'm off to buy a 48-n-1 cocktail off craigslist for $950/.   I plan to run re-runs of this episode on my website to justify selling them for $2250, 'cause now the cat's out of the bag.  If you buy one of these now, you can spin it for a profit before you even get it home.  Anyone want one?

[wp34]

I'll bet there are discussions like this on a weekly basis on message boards around the 'net.  Some message board member who specializes in [name your vice] realizes the show's made to provide entertainment and not economic investment advice.  Never woulda thunk it.

LOL -  I was just telling my wife exactly that.  We don't know the value of coins so every time Darrel or Dave on Storage Wars buy a load of coins the "expert" could be full of it and we would have no idea.

[404]

The full episode is available for viewing on the web.
http://www.aetv.com/storage-wars-texas/video/?bcpid=1283323412001&%20bclid=1311494549001&bctid=1381104125001

The clips begin at the 6:00 minute mark and 13:00 minute mark.

Here is a pic of the XX-in-1 pirate arcade board in action.

[Well Fed Games]

Thanks for the link... having watched it now, I have to say, the sudden edit from (questionably legal) 60-in-1 board startup screen to "look, its a working Ms. Pac Machine" is pretty hilarious. If Storage Wars: Texas is a lie, how can I ever trust Dog the Bounty Hunter again?

The full episode is available for viewing on the web.
http://www.aetv.com/storage-wars-texas/video/?bcpid=1283323412001&%20bclid=1311494549001&bctid=1381104125001

The clips begin at the 6:00 minute mark and 13:00 minute mark.

Here is a pic of the XX-in-1 pirate arcade board in action.

[Xiaou2]

 Some people are so blinded by anger and rage, and so busy listening to the voices in their own heads... that they are making up crap that does not even exist.

 Not once did I hear the so called Appraiser say that the machine was a dedicated Ms Pacman.
He appraised the value he believe that the machine, "As Is", could be sold.  Legally, or Illegally is irrelevant.  It still holds a value.

 Obviously, they were not going to go through the wink-wink conversations about how you Shouldnt legally sell it...

 But besides this, I find it hard to believe theres anything a person could be angered about it this video.  I find it mind numbingly stupid, and somewhat funny, if anything.
 There are things worth getting crazy over... but this certainly isnt one of those things.


 Btw - Im surprised that anyone would believe and eat this stuff up like it was actually real.  Anyone who runs an arcade, even casually, would know about x-in-one & bootleg boards.  Especially if they are Opps.

 Most gamers knew about bootlegs when they were like 10yrs old, back in the arcades themselves.  SFII hacks Galore... let alone all the over hacks out there.  But for real... anyone working with arcade machines... especially old machines, knows that with a room of +20 machines... at least One machine is having a problem... if not several machines.  In my mall location, we had 42 games.  I had anywhere from 1 to 3 games go down in a single week.   Any many more needing various things such as mech adjustments, new microswitches, resets, coin jams, bad power supplies, broken wires, loose assemblies, broken controllers, new PCB kits installed... and much more.  The games were opened and fixed All the time.

 Ops are far from dimwitted.  Most of them have extreme technical ability, far beyond that of my own.  As they have to fix things constantly, for years and years.   I was only an arcade manager, because Namco had remote techs that you would call for complex stuff.  If something was wrong with a board, you shipped the board out to be fixed.  Even then, it was a bear of a job, in pure mechanical problems.

 I never would have lasted as a full Op.  My diagnostic and electrical skills were not quite good enough.
While many ops are not good on their upkeep... they can fix things amazingly well, if they ever get around to it.

[Howard_Casto]

I guess we were seeing different episdoes then.  There were various shady cuts to get around the fact that they were appraising a BOOTLEG MACHINE but it was quite clear by the buyer's reactions that the "expert" had given him the impression that it was indeed a pac-man and a legitimate one at that.  Also all of the other info the guy gave was totally off, right down to the price. 


Really?  Illegality is irrelevant?  It's on frikkin tv man!  If they sell it they are busted!  Other tv shows have no problems refusing illegal material.  The pawn stars, for example, take great care not to buy newer guns or federal bills or anything that can be considered illegal.  I have never once seen on of their episodes and thought "that's overpriced" or "that guy didn't know what he was talking about".  They have had more than a few arcade and coin-op machines on that show as well.

Illegality is EXTREMELY RELEVANT  because trying to sell it would be ILLEGAL!!

Well apparently not this guy.... he's dumb as hell! 

And I have a real problem with the attitude man.  There are people that simply pretend that every single thing on a show is staged and fake because it is a reality show.  This just isn't true.  It very much depends upon the show. 

The shows on the history channel, for example are very accurate, their experts actually know their stuff and they are very respectful of the law and price things at the actual market value.  I don't take offense to reality television for this incident, I take offense from SWT and the idiot that arranged for the buyer to use this guy as an expert appraiser. 

[404]

Some people are so blinded by anger and rage, and so busy listening to the voices in their own heads... that they are making up crap that does not even exist.

Anyone that has a love for a certain hobby is going to be irritated when they hear and see things like this. You're not the arbiter of every arcade fan's emotions.

Not once did I hear the so called Appraiser say that the machine was a dedicated Ms Pacman.
He appraised the value he believe that the machine, "As Is", could be sold.  Legally, or Illegally is irrelevant.  It still holds a value.

I distinctly remember the "appraiser" being asked whether this was a miss pacman. The "appraiser" responds by saying "miss pacman" In casual conversations in the English language, that's a sign of affirming someone's question.

No. But what they could have said is that the unit is a reproduction.

Obviously, they were not going to go through the wink-wink conversations about how you Shouldnt legally sell it...

But besides this, I find it hard to believe theres anything a person could be angered about it this video.  I find it mind numbingly stupid, and somewhat funny, if anything.
 There are things worth getting crazy over... but this certainly isnt one of those things.

You should probably re-watch the video. MANY items in this very episode were were checked for authenticity against reproductions. The knights armor was a reproduction and they stated how they knew. The appraiser of the armor went into very specific details about the armor, sword and helmet. He even went into detail as to why these items would not even be suitable for mock battles. The Davy Crocket memorabilia was also checked and the appraiser publicly stated whey he thinks the items are original. It is only the arcade machine that was never mentioned as a reproduction. Had the knight armor been authentic or the arcade had been an original ms pacman, these items would be quite the game changer..

I omitted the rest of your quotes for obvious reasons. It really has nothing to do with this thread nor are you the one man arbiter of how everyone is supposed to feel about a television segment. Everyone is going to have a different feeling about this; Be a little more adult enough to understand that.

[Le Chuck]

The following is taken from a NAW legal advisory.  The onus is on the seller to determine whether or not his item is legit, if it is not legit then he shouldn't sell.  The fines listed below are for whole sellers but the definition of trafficing I would say clearly fits the bill of what is going on here.  Private possession in certain circumstances is allowed.  I don't think that A&E would want to be associated with a potential violation of federal law but the cuts do make it seem as though the producers don't have an issue with it.    

The federal criminal laws that prohibit any person from trafficking in counterfeit goods and services apply not only to the counterfeiter—the law applies with equal force to any individual or company that knowingly sells a counterfeit product. (18 U.S.C. 2320). This law, known as the Trademark Counterfeiting Act of 1984, carries substantial monetary fines (up to $5 million) and prison time (up to 20 years imprisonment or in some cases life) for individuals and companies who violate the Act.

The Act makes it illegal for any person to intentionally traffic, or attempt to traffic, in goods or services and knowingly use a counterfeit trademark on or in connection (such as product labeling and packaging) with those goods or services. The term “traffic” is broadly defined to include the sale of a product that bears a counterfeit trademark. Traffic also means transporting, transferring or otherwise disposing of a product for money or anything of value.

A counterfeit trademark means a spurious mark or designation (e.g., packaging, labeling) that is identical with, or substantially indistinguishable from, a trademark which is registered in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, and is used on goods without the consent of the trademark owner. A counterfeit certification mark is considered a counterfeit trademark. Criminal liability requires that the seller had actual knowledge, or constructive knowledge (reasonably should have known under the circumstances), that the product or its labeling or packaging contained a counterfeit trademark.

So a wholesaler-distributor who knowingly sells counterfeit products has a lot to lose under the federal law:

Imprisonment – Up to 10 years for the first offense and up to 20 years for a repeat offender. An offender who knowingly or recklessly causes death as a result of an unlawful sale faces up to life in prison.
Fines – Up to $15.0 million for corporations and $5.0 million for individuals who are repeat offenders.
Seizure and destruction of the counterfeit products in the wholesaler-distributor’s possession.
Civil lawsuits by the trademark owner under the federal trademark law for the recovery of damages, lost profits, attorneys’ fees and injunctive relief.

[ChadTower]

I would also bet that the guy actually gave a fairly realistic assessment that they chopped up to make look like that.  For all we know the question was "what would a real ms pac cocktail sell for at retail" and that's where the $1200 answer comes in.

[Xiaou2]

How about we toss out all the Bootleg roms in mame?  Because, they by definition, should be illegal.
And how about we destroy all directive works, Period?

 If it wasnt for the SF hacks, Capcom wouldnt have Wised up, and gave the people what they really wanted.

 And if it wasnt for the many bootlegs, many of the original mame roms would have taken a lot longer, if ever, to break their decryption.

 A 40-in-1 pcb is a legal joke, so long as you dont put the thing in an arcade.  Its the equivalent of J-Walking.   It harms nobodys income.  Its doesnt change the value of a real 25+yr old classic machine.
(not that it even matters)   I guarantee that most people here are doing things much more illegal that selling a bootleg pcb... such as downloading a current tv / movie / song.  (which Does effect earnings / profit)

 Just because it was on tv, means nothing.  For all it matters, it could have been a SFII Rainbow hack.

 Its not like they are selling live livers on the damn show.

 You people need to take a chill pill.

 Your OCD / Nazi-Ism is off the charts.

[DaveMMR]

Yeah but Xiaou, this guy is not a private buyer or collector but rather someone who's going to turn around and sell the machine for a profit. And I don't think there was much debate as to the moral or legal implications - it's more a rant about the gross inaccuracy.  

It basically boils down to "the producers just didn't care" because they think "oh it's an arcade machine - the geeks in the audience will love it but we don't really don't care enough about them to actually research exactly what is being presented - just pick a popular game and throw a number at it."  

I can understand some people thinking it's no big deal.  But I can also understand being a little put-off when a TV show glosses over your hobby and/or passion with gross misinformation, hand-waved by saying it's edited for dramatic effect.  

Nazi-Ism is off the charts.

And by the way, comparing people you disagree with to Nazis is the classiest form of debate.  

[ChadTower]

I have never been able to come up with a rational reason for the MAME userbase to care about bootlegs.  A MAME cab is nothing but a DIY bootleg.

[Le Chuck]

Bootlegging for personal use is not morally different than conterfeiting for profit, I'll conceed that, but I didn't bring up the statute as a condemnation of the hobby, or even the guys on the show, but for A&E to be careless in it's presentation. 

I always relish an opportunity to be compared to the Deutch.