Scientific American Article on Mame and Cabs

[SpAwN]

Pretty cool article...

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D204D-DD32-1F58-905980A84189EEDF&catID=2

[DarkKobold]

Ya know, this articles are really starting to piss me off.  

Seriously. This one, and that crappy tech TV one. NO mention of BYOAC. There isn't even a link to it on the one page referenced in the article. You can almost guarentee he did not do that entire cabinet without using BYOAC. These "journalists" aren't doing much research at all, otherwise they would have to know what the starting point is for 90% of the machines out there. Also, if he had bothered to do any research, he would have known that there are cabinets everywhere, so there was no need to "fly" any where. moron.

[Radical]

Seriously. This one, and that crappy tech TV one. NO mention of BYOAC. There isn't even a link to it on the one page referenced in the article. You can almost guarentee he did not do that entire cabinet without using BYOAC.

Aaron has a link to BYOAC though.  And as far as I saw his is the only page linked from the article.  Seems fair to me.

Plus I seriously doubt you really want every person who just casually comes across the article to start spouting off in the forums here.   People who are actually interested enough to take time and look at his site would be more productive members.    This site is somewhat technical, no?

[MameMaster!]

Hmmm I agree cool article....but, if this becomes too "main stream" I think it would be the end of MAME at some point.  . Thankfully this article and the Tech TV article aren't exactly "main stream".

I have noticed a few new "emulated" disks coming out for the  XBox from Midway (see the Sept. edition of XBox mag). Its very inexpensive and has about 30+ games. It's probably the most "mamelike" than any other previous emulated game disk to date. Oh, and there's also the recent Namco Arcade Stick /gaming system (very cool!).

It's gets me wondering if these folks (ex. Midway & Namco) haven't finally realized that they can make $$ off of this stuff again....(ironically due to MAME itself)....and hense....get tougher on ROM sharing.

I hope not!

The MameMaster  

[SirPeale]

Ya know, this articles are really starting to piss me off.  

Seriously. This one, and that crappy tech TV one. NO mention of BYOAC.

I started my cab long before I ever heard of BYOAC.  Even though this is my new home on the 'net, it's not the only source of info - just the best.

[RandyT]

Yeah, and some of us were doing this in the 80's  

RandyT

[1UP]

"And he has legal rights to use the ROM files for each of the dozens of arcade games he actually owned. "

Not if he doesn't own them anymore....

Why do most folks who build Mame cabs from classics insist on making the ugliest panels imaginable?  

[pointdablame]

Now I've admitted that my CP will be a bit cluttered and have a TB, spinner, etc etc.... but good god that CP is atrocious.

To each their own, but that thing isn't even laid out nicely. I'd hate to be a non-MAMER/BYOAC'er and try to figure out how to work that thing.

[jakejake28]

Why do most folks who build Mame cabs from classics insist on making the ugliest panels imaginable?  

logical explanation:

if some head honcho at Midway saw that, and felt his rights to games were being violated, he might take legal action. then he will see teh control panel. he then realizis that this man will get so little authenticity playing this panel that the dude's wallet (and wrists)  has been punished enough.
 

[Lilwolf]

a 'bit' cluttered?  Its the reason that hotswap control panels exist!

1st... The buttons are on the wrong side.   I'm left handed and I couldn't use the right side.

2) lets see you use the spinner.... without wresting your elbows on the 1st person joystick.

3) All that space... and you can't play 2play smashtv??

4) no trackball buttons... either side.  Plus you are probably going to smash your had into the  of the cab on a good swing.... plus if your right handed, your elbow is again... sitting on a joystick.

5) only 5 buttons per joystick?  Lets just cut out a TON of games... and not worry about the confusion of the button layout.

6) He has what look like oscar restrictor plates on all 3 joysticks.  If this is the case... why is there a seperate 4way joystick?

7) ... ok I think I'm done...  (but I also hate red bat joysticks... red-ball, black-bat....learn it... live it)

[jcoleman]

In defense of Aaron...we work together and I've played on that machine a few times.

His panel is a little cluttered, but he didn't want to hot-swap and possibly damage the Millipede cabinet.  It's a very nice cabinet and his fiancee (now wife; they are on their honeymoon right now), who OWNS at Millipede, wanted to hang on to that cabinet specifically.  Can many of you say you are in a similar situation?  I think not.  

He built the CP with that in mind as well as his own comfort...he literally just laid his hands on the CP and decided what felt good as far as button layout.  Therefore I am not especially comfortable playing on that cabinet, but he is, and hey, look at that, it's HIS CABINET.  He also doesn't care about most of the later "classics" like SmashTV, Street Fighter, etc.  I will concede that he has management issues with regard to finding and starting games from advMENU...I think he's going to work on that when he gets home.

This all smells of sour grapes to me.  As a matter of fact, from your profiles it looks like only 2 of you guys complaining (1UP, your cabinet was a major inspiration for him in the first place) even have a cabinet.  So build one yourself and then you can throw stones.  

BTW, I'm the buddy mentioned in the article.  He mainly helped with the Linux and monitor stuff...but I'm doing the CP myself.  

[Dritalin]

Ouch, somebody just served up a full plate of humble pie.  

[Ahi_Tuna]

"And he has legal rights to use the ROM files for each of the dozens of arcade games he actually owned. "

Not if he doesn't own them anymore....

Why do most folks who build Mame cabs from classics insist on making the ugliest panels imaginable?  

I agree with you here but at one time someone argued to me that they thought that just because they had some part of the cab that housed the game that they had an ethical right to emulate what ever roms they liked.

[jakejake28]

This all smells of sour grapes to me.  As a matter of fact, from your profiles it looks like only 2 of you guys complaining (1UP, your cabinet was a major inspiration for him in the first place) even have a cabinet.  So build one yourself and then you can throw stones.  

BTW, I'm the buddy mentioned in the article.  He mainly helped with the Linux and monitor stuff...but I'm doing the CP myself.  

valid points, and a very valid argument. about the cabs tho, i dunno about everyone else, but i have a cab and no webspace. plus, mine offers nothing that others don't, so why? anyway, if he's happy, power to him. if hes not tho, get out the saws

[saint]

For what it's worth by the way, I have web space if you want to write up your cabinet and send it in

--- saint

This all smells of sour grapes to me.  As a matter of fact, from your profiles it looks like only 2 of you guys complaining (1UP, your cabinet was a major inspiration for him in the first place) even have a cabinet.  So build one yourself and then you can throw stones.  

BTW, I'm the buddy mentioned in the article.  He mainly helped with the Linux and monitor stuff...but I'm doing the CP myself.  

valid points, and a very valid argument. about the cabs tho, i dunno about everyone else, but i have a cab and no webspace. plus, mine offers nothing that others don't, so why? anyway, if he's happy, power to him. if hes not tho, get out the saws

[Howard_Casto]

Also for the record, and just for the record, I don't think "He didn't want to damage the centipede cab with modular cps"  is a good justification for that hodgepodge of controls.  


Keeping the centipede cab in tact means nothing if you are going to put a Kmart checkout isle looking eyesore on top of it.  

Imho a classic cab like that has NO business having a frakenpanel mounted to it.  A tasteful custom panel in the spirit of the design would look nice, but preservation can't be used as an excuse when the modification doesn't "preserve"  the original look and feel of the cab.  

My point is there is no excuse for making an unsightly panel other than you didn't have the talent/foreshight/whatever to make a nicer one.  

I'm not getting into the panel debates again, I just wanted to point out that if you make a cluttered panel you need to simply admit that you made a cluttered one and not throw out a million poor justifications.  If you simply admit that "yes it's overly cluttered but it's what I wanted"  people will respect that answer a whole lot more than a bunch of excuses that don't hold water when you look at them logically.  

Many people here are very critical (myself included) about what they consider poor designs, so arguing that it isn't so poor is a futile exercise.  Again this is just my opinion, but if it looks really bad then no amount of functionality can justify it.  I know a lot of other people feel the same way.  

For the record I am NOT purposely using this panel as an example, but rather the debate over it's layout.  I very much dislike singleing out panels, but sometimes it's necessary to make a point.  I hope no one takes this personally, I've just seen some hostility regarding this topic elsewhere (again)  and I thought this would be a good place to address it.  

I also don't think that "you don't have a cab so your opinion doesn't count" is a valid argument either.  For example, if I didn't own any clothes I would still have enough sense to know that a man wearing checks and stripes is badly dressed. And I wouldn't say it because I was jealous, I would say it because he looks even more silly in his outfit than I do naked. (please refrain from jokes on this one )  Of course when they give you advice on how to "fix" it then that may be another story, but I won't go there.    

Sorry to get OT....

Regarding the article I expressed similar feelings about the "wrong choice for a prime example"  and "lack of mentioning byoac"  to saint as soon as I saw it.  I'm glad that I'm not the only one that was somewhat offended by the article and others like it.

[RandyT]

Dang it Howard,

I hate it when we agree on something  

The last thing I want to do is "dis" anyone's work.  But my thoughts were almost to the letter of what HC wrote.

It seems every hack writer that does an article on one of these, picks one of the least representative examples of the really artistic works that have been done out there.

If you make something for yourself, and you like it just fine, that's one thing.  But if you are going to take it out in public or allow it to be used as an example of the type of work being done, it should probably be of a certain aesthetic quality.

The article talks about enthusiasts building cabinets, but featured a conversion.  And, like HC said, the original style of the cab seems to not even have been considered.

This article all but screams to me "...and this is why you should never let a computer geek near power tools."    Ok, not really, but not far off either.

For once, I'd like to see an article that elevated the hobby a little.  Examples like this just look like people trying to play free games, and glomming every control imaginable onto a panel to do so, aesthetics be damned.

My apologies in advance if any feelings were hurt, but when you enter the public eye, you open yourself for criticism.  If one doesn't want it to be discussed, one shouldn't show it.

RandyT

*edit*

(repeated word)

[Apollo]

Well I guess my feelings on the subject are very well known however I feel I must comment.
I realise that this guy has probably kept the original Centipede CP but why on earth would you do that do it when with a small amount of extra expenditure he could have had a mint Centipede and a MAME cab.
I would kill for a mint Centipede in New Zealand ( I don't think there is one in the whole country! )

[jcoleman]

"you don't have a cab so your opinion doesn't count"

You are putting words in my mouth, Howard.  My intended meaning was that people were jealous about his cab getting media coverage when theirs didn't.

If you simply admit that "yes it's overly cluttered but it's what I wanted"  people will respect that answer a whole lot more than a bunch of excuses that don't hold water when you look at them logically.

Which is why I said "He built the CP with that in mind as well as his own comfort...he literally just laid his hands on the CP and decided what felt good as far as button layout."  It's what he wanted.  There were more reasons that just that, but there is the very one you are looking for.  I also said that I personally don't like it, but he does.  Get over the fact that it doesn't meet your standards.

"...and this is why you should never let a computer geek near power tools."

I was a power tool geek long before I was a computer geek...and I'm pretty handy with them if I do say so myself.  Of course, I was raised with a full wood shop in the garage as well as two or three computers around, so perhaps I am the exception to the rule.  

That's what I love about this hobby, to tell the truth.  I get to build something out of wood (and metal too), build a computer for it, and at the end of it all I get to play all my old favorite video games.  A few passions and hobbies all mixed into one great pasttime.

Anyway...so what if the quality of his cp isn't up to that of GSXRMovistar's, or if it's not a "prime example."  Have you read his website?  It's leaps and bounds above anyone else's.  It's full of helpful and useful content for anyone who wants to undertake this project, particularly on the AdvanceMAME side of things.  It seems to me that is more useful to the SciAm editors than a site that hasn't been updated in 6 months, no matter how good the machine looks.

Granted, some people won't want such detailed info; figuring it all out themselves is part of the fun for them.  I happen to fall into this category.  I like getting a new stick and figuring out the best way to integrate it into my panels.  I like figuring out how to compile AdvanceMAME and wiring up a monitor.  But that is the whole point of this forum, isn't it?  To be helpful?  That is exactly what his site does, but instead of praising that all you guys are doing is bashing his CP layout.  Don't we pride our forum on being as friendly as it is helpful?

John

PS It's a Millipede, not a Centipede.  

[rampy]

Well...

Do I think his CP is laid out well or to my taste? No...

But different people bring different things to the table...  his project has a few contributions to the community.

His cabinet is an excellent example of using linux, and if I were to make a linux -> mame box, I'd stop at his page first for info... (granted his isn't the first linux mame box, but I don't see too many web documented examples of this)

It's also something to share with mutilators of a way to approach mameing a classic cabinet without destroying it (and keeping it reversable)... where's the sawed off dig dug guy anyways?! =P

So i think his site/project has some value to the committee... even if some of us look down our nose at the control panel...

*Shrug*

Rampy

[1UP]

I'm not trying to offend, I just hate seeing classic cabs MAME'd, mainly because I'd love to have room for collecting some classics myself!  If there are any sour grapes on my part, it's not for the publicity, its because he has a bunch of original games that I'd love to have, yet he converts one of them to MAME...    (And actually, yes, I wouldn't mind getting my cab in a magazine or on Tech TV...)

If he's been collecting games as long as he claims, then he should know how cheap it is to get a generic jamma cab for a MAME machine, instead of messing with a perfectly working game, especially if it was his wife's fave.  For a few extra bucks he could even make some sideart and a marquee to give it a more classy look.  

Nothing against the guy at all, but I personally think that conversions are tacky, and a waste of a good machine.  But if you must do it, then at least make an effort to keep the original look of the game as much as possible!  I actually don't mind the layout as much as the button colors he chose (looks a little like a Wonder Bread package to me...)  Just look at )p('s Emulaxian cab as a good example of what's possible with a little imagination and a lot of restraint!

BTW, in Aaron's defense, it looks like he's using joysticks with metal mounting plates, not 4-way restrictors on the two lower joysticks...

[allroy1975]

Dang it Howard,

I hate it when we agree on something  

I don't think it's ever happend before but...I agree with him too!  

I pretty well agree with what everyone's saying.  I've got a classic Ms. Pac-Man cab, a galaxian and a baby pac.  So...why did I spend all that time and money building my own cab?  oh yeah, because sticking a control panel with more than 1 joystick on those machines would be sick and wrong.  SICK AND WRONG..YOU HEAR ME!?!?  If you hurt my Ms. Pac I'll kill you.  She's my girl.  she deserves to be treated with some respect.  and...although a millipede is just a worm...he prolly deserves a little respect too...  

Allroy

[pointdablame]

jcoleman - I completely  understand wanting to stick up for a friend, and I respect that totally, but don't try to come down on people that you don't even know.

Since I'm one of the "jealous" people you are talking about, I have to respond. To say I'm jealous of his cab for getting media coverage is, to be frank, a load of ****.  Why would I be jealous of that if my cab isn't even finished yet? He completed his, is happy with it, and got it recognized. Kudos to him. Don't say I have sour grapes simply because I'm not already done with my project and a "pro" like your friend.

That, however, does not lessen the fact that you are insulting people for having their own opinions. I am 19 years old, and if I may be so bold, have built and repaired more things than the average person might build in a lifetime. That's why I'm here... to learn how to build yet ANOTHER thing and learn from people who have already built a cab.

That also doesn't lessen the fact that his design is highly unorthodox and very unappealing. It just screams "complicated" and "cluttered." He likes it, which in the end is all that matters, but he put it out for display, so he damn well better be ready for criticism. He could have kept the machine in "pristine condition" and had swappable CP's with no problem at all...that is all most people here have been saying, including myself. Why clutter up such a small CP with all those controls in such a, IN MY OPINION, horrible layout? That's his own preference, but most people here are just showing their preference in saying that it could have turned out to be a much cleaner looking machine, since that is what it seems like he wanted, not wanting to alter the cab itself.

I'm just going to stop here before my rant gets out of hand, but on a final note: Don't you find it a bit funny that you make the point to say that "isnt the point of this forum to be helpful" and then go off and say that some people's opinion aren't worth anything. Now tell me, how is that statement helpful???

[1UP]

AHHH....dammit, I'm sorry that I helped turn this topic down a negative tangent, one little comment and everything turns ugly...  

I just really hate to see the things people do to classic cabs, not that Aaron's is the worst example by far...there are some seriously warped people out there who were orphaned by killer arcade machines or something...  Anyone ever see the Star Wars upright that was gutted and turned into an easy chair?  Or the Computer Space converted to a Pac-Man?  To someone like me, THOSE are really like coming across a murder scene, or a toilet where somone had some serious trouble...WHOA!  

Of course, it's one thing to find a free gutted cab that you don't have the slightest clue what to do with other than stuffing a PC and a Hotrod into it.  Better that then let it rot in a field somewhere...  But to take a working game in good condition, and stuff it with a PC and a home-made Hotrod is too much...

This is the whole reason I decided to scratch-build a cab.  (Well, that and also there's no existing cab that could handle my CP design...)  When I first looked through all the examples while I was planning my cab, I was really disappointed in all the folks with wonderful classic cabs, haphazardly stuffed with Hotrods, hacked PC trackballs, home-made stereo-knob spinners etc.  A Star Wars cab with a purple CP and a trackball in the middle of the monitor bezel is enough to kill a guy from shock!  

Anyway...It's his cab, he can do what he wants, but it just makes me sad is all...  

[jcoleman]

Why I continue to follow this topic, I'm not sure of...but here goes again.  This is mainly directed at pointdablame, but will be of interest to all the self-righteous anti-"mutilators" here on the boards.

Don't you find it a bit funny that you make the point to say that "isnt the point of this forum to be helpful" and then go off and say that some people's opinion aren't worth anything.

No, because I never said anyone's opinion isn't valid.  No one was asking for your opinions, folks.  "don't try to come down on people that you don't even know" That is exactly what everyone else in this thread is doing.  Not one of you knows the guy personally.  You have the wonderful anonymity of the net and you go off the deep end talking about "what he should have done" and "what would have looked better."  HE DIDN'T ASK YOU.

I did say "So build one yourself and then you can throw stones," but I winked afterward...the universal internet signal for "this is said with a humorous tone."  Please check your sensitivity level.  I wasn't saying your opinion isn't valid.  (Even though it's not since you are only 19 )  See?  I did it again.  Joking.

Now, to fan the flames further, have a look at the attached photo.  I asked in all the regular forums and no one wanted the cabinet.  Be glad I saved it at all, it was about to be destroyed.  As far as I'm concerned I did the poor thing a favor, it was so banged up to begin with.

Yes I am a mutilator.  Come and get me if you can.  At least I've come to my senses and installed a NOS Wico leaf stick.  

John

[jcoleman]

BTW, that was a Galaxian, and looked like this when I got it.  I actually have the operator's address if anyone wants it.  

[jcoleman]

Here is what the sideart looked like.  Flame away.  

[saint]

Rules Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  
Rules Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  
Rules Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  Rules  

Please mellow out everyone.  Thanks!

--- saint

[Apollo]

"Yes I am a mutilator.  Come and get me if you can.  At least I've come to my senses and installed a NOS Wico leaf stick." Quote from jcoleman.

Whoa dude! Where can I get a NOS ( nitrous oxide ) kit for my WICO leaf stick!!! Cooool!!!  

[Howard_Casto]

No, because I never said anyone's opinion isn't valid.  No one was asking for your opinions, folks.  "don't try to come down on people that you don't even know" That is exactly what everyone else in this thread is doing.  Not one of you knows the guy personally.  You have the wonderful anonymity of the net and you go off the deep end talking about "what he should have done" and "what would have looked better."  HE DIDN'T ASK YOU.

I hate to get back into this, but where exactly do you come off making such a bold statement?  

When a person is featured as a representative for a hobby that we are all intimately involved in it is not only our right, but our DUTY to give opinions.  I think the the general concensious of this thread minus the negative dialog is the majority of the people the visit this site feel that the cab choosen for this article completely and totally misrespresents this community and what the majority of us feel a "mame cab" should be like.  You might like your friends cab, but he was choosen to represent us.  We are strongly saying that he doesn't and we don't feel it's a good example.  Like it or not we have spoken and this has absolutely NOTHING to do with your friend specifically and we DO have the right to say virtually anything we want about his cab soley becuase it was so blatently put in the public's view.  Not only that but it was deemed by the writer of the article as an "average mame cab".  Imo nothing could be further from the truth.  

And that my friend is the point of this thread.  Stop thinking so small mindedly and look at the bigger picture.  With all due respect this issue is above and beyond your and your friends views, or anyone's individual views for that matter.  It's about misrepresentation.  Nothing more, nothing less.

And please be respectful if you respond.  The only reason I put some ucase words in there was to make sure I wasn't misunderstood.  

[Apollo]

I agree

My control panel pics will be up in a couple of weeks, I'll show you how it should be done he he j/k  

Can anyone say "He's asking for it?"