Philco 38-116 Conversion to Jukebox

[Meph]

Well its time for build #2 and this time im going with a vintage radio cabinet.  My wife absolutely hates my first Jukebox which was a late 80s Rowe Juke.  Its huge, its black and silver, it screams game room.  I love it but its not something most people are going to display in their living room.  When I began this process I showed my wife the ideas I had with converting jukes, vintage radios, and custom builds.  She loves the look of vintage radios and asked me to do one of them this time around.  I had started talking with a guy who did restorations and had 100s of old cabinets in various states of disrepair.  I gave him an idea of the type of cabinet I wanted and 10 minutes later he had pulled this Philco 38-116 out and told me I could have it!  So here it begins.

I began taking the cabinet apart today and cleaning it.  This thing is FILTHY.  Once I get the cabinet all cleaned up i'm going to try oiling it up and seeing how it looks.  Some parts of this cabinet definitely show a lot of wear but I really wont know until I get it cleaned up.  If it looks decent oiled up then I will probably go with the weathered look, if not then I will start stripping it and go with a full blown wood restoration.

[Donkbaca]

Awesome.

[yotsuya]

I wish I knew your restorations guy!

[Generic Eric]

...watching...

[gryhnd]

Awesome! I keep an eye out for old Philcos or Crosleys too. Although another juke is not in my immediate future I love doing the conversions.

I really need to put those last fender spears on my Rat Rod now...

[drventure]

Fantastic!

I've been looking for a radio similar to that for a while too (for a juke conversion).

Found a 1928 Zenith, but they wanted too much.

I'm looking for something before the "art deco" phase, so it'd be a little more victorian.

But that looks like it could be a great build!

[Meph]

This morning I busted out the oil soap and spent a good couple hours cleaning this thing up.  I also cleaned the inside of it but I forgot to take any pics of that.  Not much to see there anyways.  These pics were taken right after the last wash.  Its looking a lot better than it was but I still don't know what I want to do with it.  What type of oil/polish should I be looking for to really bring out the rich reds of that wood instead of drying out and getting a hazy look to it?











As you can see there is still a good deal of wear on the bottom and some on the top.  That's the only thing that has me hesitant about just polishing it up and calling it a day.  What do you guys think?

[drventure]

Is the top obviously veneer (looking from the back, you could probably tell).

If it's veneer, you have to be very careful about sanding.

Still, the those scratches on the top, I'd seriously think about taking some 300 grit, or maybe 600 grit to it to at least get the scratches out. If you go back with the same reddish stain, you shouldn't have to sand down enough to completely take the stain out, just enough to even things up.

Just be careful sanding veneer. I know, I sanded right through the veneer I'd put on the front of my buffet project. But, I little clever staining, and I was able to hide the screw up well enough.... 

[Meph]

Yes it is veneer, all those vintage radio cabinets are covered with veneer.  They don't stain it either, they use a toning lacquer instead.  Mohawk makes a line of toning lacquer that i'm going to use.  I picked up some lacquer stripper tonight and i'm going to begin stripping the cabinet.  Once its stripped it will get a very light sand to remove anything the stripper didn't and give it a uniform finish.  Wish me luck.  I don't really know what i'm doing but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night =)

[gryhnd]

Give Howards restore a finish a try. It can't work miracles, but it can do a damn good job. Check out my build thread for my experiences with it.

[Meph]

I actually spent a lot of time today reading about different techniques people use to restore these cabinets and a lot about Howards.  If you look at my last batch of pics you can see that on the top, the left side, and the bottom there are parts where the lacquer is completely gone and its bare wood.  Howards is great for hiding minor blemishes and scratches but it can't change the fact that the finish is worn off in multiple places.  I got this cabinet for free and i'm going to use it as my learning experience.  I'm actually looking forward to this.

[drventure]

Did not know that about the toning lacquer. Stripping that, then a light sand, a little steel wool, vacuuming everywhere and then a good tack cloth should clean that up very nicely. Just a little messy is all. 

[mgb]

I'm really liking these classic radio, jukebox conversions I'm seeing around here.
man my wife is gonna be mad at you all when I finally give in and try one.

I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.
Good luck

[Meph]

So process has been a little slow while I tried out different stripping methods.  Reading some of the Antique radio forums a lot of people consider Citri-strip as garbage and claim it doesn't work on lacquer very well.  I bought a can of lacquer thinner and decided I would use that so it would be a nice quick stripping job.  Yeah right.  Even using it out in my driveway for lots of ventilation I was still ready to knock myself out after about 10 minutes of it.  The next problem was at 85 degrees out, lacquer thinner evaporates REALLY fast.  It was so slow stripping that I was getting a bit disheartened.

Well to make a long story short I had a bottle of Citri-strip in my garage so I decided to give it a try.  It working amazing and this is coming out better than I had imagined.

Stripping the right side:






Stripping the front:






Once I have finished the bulk of the stripping I will go back over it and hit the spots that still need it.

[drventure]

Odd, I've used CitriStrip too and found that it worked pretty good.

Glad to see it's coming along.

[Meph]

Finished the bulk of the stripping this afternoon.  Next I need to wipe down the whole thing with lacquer thinner to remove any last bits still remaining.  I have a few more pieces that need to be glued and clamped but its pretty solid now.  I'm completely amazed at how good this thing looks now that the old lacquer is gone.  I don't know if I need to use a toning lacquer on it now or just clear lacquer.  Will have to read some more on the Antique radio forums and see what they normally do.

[drventure]

Nicely done.

If you could put together a brass frame for that opening, mount a touchscreen behind it and keep the dials in place, then just hook them up to, say a mouse hack or something, wow. Looking forward to seeing where you take it...

[Meph]

When I got the cabinet the dials were missing to start with.  I have a 15" ELO that is going in there.  It will fit nicely on the front but it will cover where the dials were.  The only thing stopping me from going forward is i'm having some issues with the touchscreen being flaky right now.  Most of the time the PC boots up and its works fine.  Other times it doesn't find the touchscreen or it just stops working after hours.  Its one of the $90 ebay variety and I think its just flaking out.  I'm not cutting any holes in the cabinet until I know exactly what is going in it first.  I still have time since I need to order my Mohawk toners and finish the cabinet restoration.  I also want to put a base in the bottom of the cabinet and some wheels.  I'm just taking my time with it but i'm really enjoying it.

[mightytim99]

Niiiiiice!!! Will be watching to see how this goes!

[roypattonphoto]

any update, ive been keeping eyes on this, and liking the direction, ive also been keeping an Eye out myself for a cheapo old dead radio cab such as this...

[Meph]

No update so far.  I still haven't ordered my toning lacquers.  I will hopefully do that this weekend.  The biggest reason for my slowdown is that i'm having problem with my Elo 15" Touchscreen.  For some reason half the time I boot the pc it doesn't recognize the touch.  Other times the touch will stop working after 10 minutes or 1 hour.  Sometimes it works all day.  I have tried it on 3 different PCs with different drivers and all gave the same results.  I don't want to cut a hole in the cabinet for that monitor only to have to replace the monitor so i'm waiting until I nab another monitor. 

My second problem was my other juke.  I put it up for sale yesterday but when I went to take pics of it the other day, the PC wouldn't boot up.  The machine was a freebie my wife brought home from work.  Its an old Dell P4 and now its overheating badly so I ended up stealing the PC from this project to replace the other so I can sell it.  So once that one is sold I can buy a new PC and monitor for this one and finish it up.  Keep watching, I will get some cabinet updates next week I hope if I get the lacquers.  I'm anxious to finish this one up because next up is a PinMame cab =)

[Meph]

Well I finally got around to doing a little work on this cabinet this week.  I cut the hole for the 15" monitor and put 4 coats of lacquer on the cabinet.  I haven't decided if I am going to do a couple more coats or if I am just going to move to the wet sand/polish stage.  I think the lacquer came out quite well.  I didn't take any pics with the monitor in place but cutting the hole for it came out much better than I had expected.  I have the computer for it, I just need to set that up and install everything.  The only pieces I don't have for it right now is the speakers and the Philco "V" pattern speaker cloth.  I sold my other Juke and have people asking for some custom built ones so it has kinda lit a fire to get this one finished.

[gryhnd]

Beautiful! That wood has cleaned up very nice.

[mountain]

Very nice! I have been wanting to do this for a while now, just can't seam to find a donor cabinet.

[JRoz]

Hey,

Looks great so far.  Just curious, how did you cut the square in the face so perfectly and what tool -jigsaw?  I have 2 15" elo's one that is broken so i took the faceplate off so i can use as a template to cut.  Are you planning to mount the monitor inside or outside of the hole?  The faceplate on these monitors are a bit weird...they have holes but if you mount from the outside you have all of the frame exposed with it?  Let me know how you plan to mount, very curious.

One last thing, i'm picking up a cabinet that is actually already in pretty good condition.  I don't have the luxury of a garage as i'm living in the city..so I don't really have the space to start stripping the exterior etc. I'm thinking about just cleaning it up like you did and using some type of oil soap or polish or whatever you were going to use after you cleaned it up.  Can you recommend some cleaning products to clean it up, and then some polish for afterwards?  I dont think I want to strip it all and start over, so something that will clean it up a bit.


thanks!
Jason

[gryhnd]

Hey,

Looks great so far.  Just curious, how did you cut the square in the face so perfectly and what tool -jigsaw?  I have 2 15" elo's one that is broken so i took the faceplate off so i can use as a template to cut.  Are you planning to mount the monitor inside or outside of the hole?  The faceplate on these monitors are a bit weird...they have holes but if you mount from the outside you have all of the frame exposed with it?  Let me know how you plan to mount, very curious.

Here's how I did mine. Continues on Page 2 as well.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=104021.msg1101248#msg1101248

[JRoz]

thanks for the post, I'm more curious on how Meph did his as I have the exact cabinet and monitor.  I plan to cut a hole like his and screw the black bezel into the face from behind.  So just cut a hole big enough for the screen to show and just screw in the 8 screws into the wood.  Only issue is i'm horrible at cutting holes with a jigsaw.  I'm curious the technique or tips to cut an even nice square.  I have my black face plate off so I can trace it right onto the wood but the cutting part is what scares me!  Worst case I guess I can use some picture frame to make a fake bezel around the square I cut in case I mess up? 

[Meph]

I cut the hole using a jigsaw.  I actually measured the center of the cabinet and then flipped the monitor upside down and traced the frame.  I cut it so the whole frame fits in it snugly.  To secure it I am going to do like I did with my last juke.  Build a mounting bracket like Gryhnd did but since there isn't a whole lot to bite into for mounting to the cabinet, i'm going to glue two blocks on the inside that I can screw into.  I originally wanted to mount it the way your hoping to but with the holes from the dials you would have some gaps in the front if you only cut out the inner part of the monitor.

I bought some 3/16" thick oak pieces that are 2" wide and i'm making a frame to go around it.  I plan to find a stain that matches the lacquer on the cabinet closely and then will clear lacquer over it.  Should be a pretty close match.  I will try and get some pics up tonight of where i'm at and show you how the monitor fits in.

[JRoz]

interesting, i'm thinking of just cutting a hole big enough for the glass and then if the dials are still in good condition, using those with the touchscreen.  One to turn on and off (rerun my desktop power switch), maybe another to adjust volume (basically hack up a Griffin PowerMate).  How thick is the wood for the face itself?  One last thing, any recommendation on oil soap and maybe a good polisher after I clean it up?  Something like Murphy's Oil soap good to clean with? http://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Oil-Soap-Original-Formula/dp/B00005UVD7   

[Meph]

I actually used Murphy's oil soap initially to clean it up.  Mine was really filthy when I got it.  I'm looking now to see what kind of furniture polish/wax I am going to finish it with.

[JRoz]

oh ok cool, since i'm not going to strip the finish, could I apply this type of polish/wax once I clean it up and let it dry?  Or do I need to put down some type of new coat?

[drventure]

Nice Job!

I picked up an old radio cab off CL just a few weeks ago. Looking forward to my own project like this one.

That wood did really clean up well.

[Turvey]

One last thing, any recommendation on oil soap and maybe a good polisher after I clean it up?  Something like Murphy's Oil soap good to clean with? http://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Oil-Soap-Original-Formula/dp/B00005UVD7   

Have you read the one and only review of this product on Amazon?

Had a wooden kitchen cabinet that had a bit of grime on it and mixed according to the directions with 1/4 cup per gallon of water. Used an ordinary sponge but instead of removing the dirt it took off the clear coat/polyurethane instead. Now I'm left with a ruined door that has to be sanded and refinished.

Just in case it takes of more than what you want 

[JRoz]

yikes dont want that to happen!..hmmm.  I guess it worked for Meph since he eventually wanted to strip the whole thing


edit: yet this has great reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006ZHCK0/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003LWVB2U&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0BHQX5NYXH1NKETKVKDP

[drventure]

I've used murphys on finished wood and had great results.

I'm guessing it has to do with what kind of finish is on the wood. Definitely best to test in an inconspicuous area.

[JRoz]

don't mean to hijack this thread but here is my cabinet.  The bottom as you can see looks like its pretty warn.  I don't to do a strip or anything so trying to see if I can touch it up a little..not too worry about the scratches.  you think a cleaner can do the trick?  


just really concerned with the bottom part.  

[Meph]

I have used Murphy's Oil soap for 30 years to wash hardwood floors and never taken any finish off.  Its an oil soap.  Its meant to clean and protect wood.  You really need to take those types of product reviews with a grain of salt.  There is no IQ test for buying products.  

[Meph]

That link isn't working.

[JRoz]

just re-attached

[Meph]

If you really don't want to strip it then I personally would go with Howard's Restore-A-Finish.

http://www.howardproducts.com/restora.htm

A lot of people use them on radio cabinets with amazing results.  Since its not a full restore its something that will have to be done periodically though.  You might have to use it a couple times a year to keep the shine up.

[JRoz]

yea maybe i'll give that a try.  Going to have to do it in the basment with a mask..looks like its got some serious chemicals.  Would you recommend applying it to the whole cabinet or just in the bad spots?  Walnut finish you think the way to go?

[Meph]

I really don't know to be honest.  I decided to go with the stripping route so I have never used that stuff.  I would do the whole cabinet if it were me.  You cabinet is a little different than mine.  It looks like the base model of the 38-116 which is what I have.  A little less detail on the front.  Inside the cabinet the model number should be there somewhere.  You can get the exact colors they used and then try and match it with the refinisher.

[JRoz]

yea this stuff looks pretty good actually.  I guess its not as hard as it sounds...just watched a youtube video with it..not using any fume protector/face mask or whatever the hell they call them haha.  I'll give it a shot, thanks and good luck with the project

[Meph]

This will give you an idea of what i'm planning to do.  The monitor sits flush with the outside of the cabinet.



I'm planning to glue some blocks to the left and right of the monitor inside the cabinet.  Then I will mount the monitor to a board and attach to the board to those 2 blocks.  It will be plenty secure at that point.



I bought some 3/16" thick oak that's 2" wide.  I am hoping to frame the monitor bezel with that and match the color of the cabinet.  This picture was just for testing.  I made it in a couple mins and its duct taped together





I have a few more things i'll post after dinner.

[Meph]

Rather than hitting Jo Ann Fabrics for some burlap like a lot of people do I decided to get the reproduction grille cloth for my cabinet.  Unfortunately the factory that makes it is closed so stock is running out and so far nobody else is making it.  I think its well worth the cost for the looks.  You can find the repro cloth at http://www.grillecloth.com/



Lastly I picked up the speakers for this cabinet.  For my last juke I ended up using 10" woofers, 6" Mids, 2.5" tweeters, a custom crossover, and a 200w amp.  It was nice but it was also a full size jukebox.  For this project I decided to go with a set of Logitech z623 200w RMS 2.1 THX Certified Speakers.  They sound great and are more than enough for such a small cabinet. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121048

If your patient you can find them on sale on Newegg for as little as $100 with free shipping.

[Benevolance]

Wow. This is looking fabulous. I cannot believe how nicely that wood cleaned up! My only comment would be that, if you've got a router and appropriate bit, maybe round the edges of the exterior monitor frame so that it matches the curved style of the radio?

[Meph]

If you look at the picture of the monitor from the back, that tiny strip of black plastic that you see is all there is.  There is nothing that can actually be routed off AND the touchscreen portion of the monitor is actually sandwiched between the monitor and the bezel.  Messing with that can basically ruin the touch screen.  I really don't want to mess with that.  I think when its all done, this will come together really nicely.

[Nephasth]

I think Benevolance is talking about rounding the edges/corners of the wooden frame that goes around the monitor in the front. I think that would look good as well.

[Meph]

Oh that I will probably do.  That frame I threw up I literally made up in about 5 minutes.  It was really a test to see how it would look.  It's actually held together with duct tape on the back side.  I'm still unsure about what the final bezel frame will entail.  I'm planning to get the monitor mounted in the next couple days and move the computer into the case.  I think the frame will be the last thing I do but i'm open to any suggestions.

[Benevolance]

Yep, I meant the wooden frame around the monitor. Sorry that wasn't more clear.

Of course, if you're open to suggestions, what I'd really like to see is the frame made of brass and leather, with a brass mechanical iris aperture that opens/dilates when the system powers on to reveal the screen. And convert the entire thing run on steam instead of electricity. And maybe attach a dirigible in there somehow. I think Drventure will back me up on this one.

But I'd settle for a slightly rounded edge on the wooden frame you had.

[drventure]

I think Drventure will back me up on this one

+10 for that brass Iris idea.

Oh, you so do NOT know what you just planted for my own jukebox build 

On the frame idea. you might head down to Rockler or Micheals or some craft store that sells carved or embossed wood trim. You could use a few nice pieced of that to accent the frame nicely, then stain it all to match.

[Meph]

I went to AC Moore with the thoughts of getting a custom frame for it.  I changed my mind when they told me prices would start around $75 and go up to as much as $200.  Seems a bit much to me.

[opt2not]

Beautiful Juke! That wood cleaned up great!

I agree with Benevolance, the frame seems to be off-style to the rest of the cabinet, both in colour and in shape.

If I were you, I'd round off the corners for sure, just to go with the curves of the rest of the juke. There are barely any straight right-angles through-out the cabinet, and the completely squared frame looks a bit kitchy in comparison to the rest.
While you're at it with the router, perhaps you could match the groove in that front ledge by putting into the frame edges. If you have the right router bit, you could easily mimic that groove. I don't know if that makes sense, so I took the liberty to photoshop what I'm talking about:

[drventure]

Ok Couldn't resist

A brass Iris

[Nephasth]

While you're at it with the router, perhaps you could match the groove in that front ledge by putting into the frame edges. If you have the right router bit, you could easily mimic that groove. I don't know if that makes sense, so I took the liberty to photoshop what I'm talking about:

Very cool!

[Meph]

I'll get right on the Brass Iris.

I think you guys are right about the rounded corners but i'm not sold on trying to mimic that groove.  I will have to play around with it.

[JRoz]

Meph, just curious again..what was the reason you didnt mount the monitor behind the face of the cabinet (just a square cut for the glass itself)  When you take out the dial on the face, do the buttons have to come with it..was that the issue?  How thick exactly is that wood?  I don't have the cabinet in front of me yet so I won't really know till saturday. 

[Meph]

If you look at this first pic you can see all the original holes in the cabinet.  It you only cut out the inner lip of the monitor there are a few problems.  First the new hole will not cover both the big upper hole and the smaller knob holes.   I had no chassis, no knobs, and wanted a clean faced front with no external controls.  The bottom cut is literally the bottom of the button holes and the top cut really can't go any higher or it will be part of the curve. 

Everything will be fully controlled by ETouch jukebox.  I don't have a measurement off the top of my head for the thickness of the front but it was enough that I don't think I would have wanted it behind.

The cabinet you showed is actually a different model than mine so your measurements might be a little different.

[JRoz]

ah good point on all, alright well I guess I may not have any choice either but to go with the frame..thanks again

[drventure]

Ok. Last post about the brass iris. I swear 

The guy that made it actually sells the kit. 365$ which doesn't seem too bad for what you get.

http://www.schaie.com/cnc/

Now back to Meph's art deco goodness

[Benevolance]

I don't think there is any way you could have avoided cutting out the space for the monitor. And honestly, it's going to look good. The important part is putting a frame on it such that it appears the touch screen monitor was part of the original design. And I know that the original frame was just a concept piece. But providing unsolicited and unhelpful advice on aesthetics is what we do best around here.

Oh, you so do NOT know what you just planted for my own jukebox build

I get first ride in your jukebox dirigible. I've got a buddy that is a machinist. He's currently working on a bunch of interlocked gears for my arcade cabinet marquee. When he's done, I'm going to have to show him that video and find out what it will cost to get something like that done.

[drventure]

I've got a buddy that is a machinist

I may have to get an email address at some point. I'm supposed to be bringing the old radio cabinet I found online home this weekend. We'll see then what kind of space I've got to work with...

Can't wait to see that marquee too. Sounds very nice!

[bogielocks]

Man that's looking good. I have a Philco 38-4 that I have yet to really do anything to it. Yes, it's the one from the other thread. I'll be watching this to see how you make out. Hope you'll post your components/setup as well.

Luckily I was able to pick up some of the Philco "V" Chevron grill cloth, since you said they stopped making it. My speakers I'm planning on using are Polk Audio RC65i in-wall home theater speakers, powered by a Cambridge Soundworks sub-woofer. 

Cheers!

Bogie

[JRoz]

Hey Meph, where did you end up getting those pieces for your picture frame? 

[Meph]

I still haven't decided on my bezel yet.  I think tomorrow I am going to try and find a matching stain and see how it looks stained.  I finally got around to getting the computer all setup.  Its all running now and the it sounds good.  Some work still setting up my library and tweaking E-Touch to my liking but this one is just about done.  I think my next might have to be a wall unit.

[gryhnd]

What about some contrasting inlays? Either a dark wood like mahogany (or whatever best matches the darker grain on the juke itself or the color of those ), and/or some metal? That would break up that large field of the frame.  Depending on your skills and equipment, you could even have them follow the directions existing inlay and grain . That would look killer.

[Meph]

Well the frame around the monitor isn't perfect but i'm pretty happy with it for now.  I think this "Metal" skin for Etouch looks great with it.

[drventure]

Nice. Definitely better. And that skin works well too!

 

[Benevolance]

Looks good! I mean, it's no brass iris, but it looks a lot better.

I like the player theme. Etouch is the software that you are using for the front end?

[Meph]

Yes its Etouch.  You can find it at the link below.  The developer works on it non-stop.  There are new beta builds practically daily.

http://www.freeboxjukebox.com

[crashwg]

I like what you've done with it.  My one criticism would be the large and wild grain on the monitor frame.  If you could find something with a tighter, straighter grain on it I think it would look better.

[mountain]

  Great project, but I do agree that matching the wood would really do wonders for this.

I just picked up my project radio cabinet this weekend. I will be using a 12" widescreen touchscreen on it.

[drventure]

I'd agree with the wood grain comments. The grain looks like redoak, but most of those old radio cabs appear to be veneers or walnut, teak, mahogany, or maple (or combinations).

It's tough to get red oak to look like walnut (and believe me, I tried  )

Still looks decent though.

And Mountain, great score! That cabinet has the angled top which would be perfect for a touchscreen. Kinda wish I'd held out, but, I gotta make things difficult!

[Encryptor]

Meph,

How did you apply the lacquer finish?

[Meph]

You want to spray the lacquer on.  Lacquer re-activates each coat under it with each new coat which makes it impossible to brush on with multiple coats.  I don't have any real spray equipment so I just bought aerosol cans.  Rustoleum sells a clear lacquer which I used.  I am not a huge fan of their coverage.  If you get into the radio restoration forums you will see the norm is using Mohawk brand "Ultra Classic" Toning and Clear lacquers.  I got anxious and bought what I could find locally.  I wish I had waited and ordered the Mohawk stuff.  I know for next time.

As for matching the frame, i'm not happy with the results but for now its fine.  My monitor is crapping out so I ordered another the other day so I will have to replace that.  I will probably wait until after chirstmas before I make a permanent frame.  I think I am just going to a local cabinet shop to find some Walnut veneer to frame it with and I will use the Mohawk dark walnut toner a couple coats of clear over it.  I want it to match but for the holidays, its functional.

Mountain, I was thinking about the exact same cabinet for another project.  I'm going to be watching to see how the 12" widescreen fits in there.