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Author Topic: The current status of Ram Controls:  (Read 53927 times)

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CheffoJeffo

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #80 on: June 16, 2011, 02:06:10 pm »
To be fair to Frizz and Rikitiki, the last time that this happened in the community, people continued to get ripped off until those who weren't owed anything stepped up.

Having said that, if Steph says that Dan is not Dave, that is good enough for me.

I would, however, as a concerned member of the community like more details than perhaps Dan would like to share about what happened, what Dan's role has been in the past, etc. Also curious why not cut the cord, take the inventory and open a new business as "DAN Controls -- we got the inventory from RAM because Dave owed me money".

I have no dog in this fight except for some friends who are out of pocket and the good of the community.

* CheffoJeffo still hopes that Dan can find a way to climb out of the hole that Dave dug

EDIT: I actually think I know why Dan didn't take the inventory ... because he really can't just pick assets of a company in trouble just because he knows the guy. There are rules as to how creditors are taken care of in situations like this (I'm in Canada, but I bet the rules are similar). I'll bet Dan thought that his (and everybody's) best chance to get even was to take it all on (and shield himself as best he can) and do what Dave couldn't ... run a business.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 02:49:27 pm by CheffoJeffo »
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #81 on: June 16, 2011, 02:08:46 pm »
Some of you are making the claim that I am Dave.. I refer you to the MANY post's Steph has made on KLOV that he has spoken to Dave and myself and he can verify that I am not in fact Dave. Shilmover who is on this board as well has made a similar post as he knows Dave well and has spoken to both him and myself on the phone and can verify that we are not the same person.

Do you work for or with Dave Adams? Does he have any access to the materials you acquired from him? And, is he receiving any money from any of your sales?

Quote
I am taking care of the past debts because it is good business. I am taking care of those who are owed past debts because it is the RIGHT thing to do. I am taking care of past customers because it is always easier to take care of past customers to keep a business alive than generate new customers.

Unless you are legally liable for the past debts, or a business partner for Dave Adams, your argument makes no sense whatsoever. If what you've said is true, and you did not buy the business from Dave Adams, you are basically risking a lot to try and rehabilitate someone else's business name (because that company committed fraud.)

EDIT: I want to clarify... I am a business owner, so I'm very well informed about liability issues. My adamant tone here is not to trash you, Dan, I just honestly don't understand what you're thinking to involve yourself actively in someone else's issues of fraud.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 02:16:06 pm by Spunkmeyer »

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #82 on: June 16, 2011, 02:16:16 pm »
I know there was a lot of money owed by Dave when I took this thing over. I had an attorney draw up the paperwork to shield myself somewhat should this get out of control. The way it was structured is that I took over the assets, the intellectual property, and the web domain as payment for the debt he owed me. David does not own any part of my business or the stock. He has no control over my business or how I choose to run the Ram Controls brand. I do have an agreement where he will answer any questions I may have about the stock, past orders, and guidance to create new products. I do not come from an arcade background so I put it in the contract that he would provide this help. I do have regular contact with him by text message and occasionally via phone, but he is trying to put his life together and he knew he could not continue Ram Controls so this was the best possible solution. I pretty much felt I would never see any of my money back so I made the deal.

Spunkmeyer: He is NOT receiving money from sales. He and I have a contract where he helps me from time to time since I did not come from an arcade background. I have owned many games in my life (Spy Hunter, APB, Assault, Smash TV, SW Upright) I have never repaired them so I needed training on how to assemble the controllers, identify the parts, etc. If I came on the scene and tried selling Ram Controls parts people would make that connection pretty easily and I would still be in the same situation. I think that the brand name is worth salvaging and I am putting in the effort to do so. Some may not agree but that is my choice.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #83 on: June 16, 2011, 02:31:29 pm »
It sounds like you are a creditor who secured assets as payment to forgive your own debts, but Dave Adams is still liable for all of the other business that was conducted by him, unless your agreement said you were assuming his debts as well.

I agree with CheffoJeffo that the best thing to do would be to open "DAN Controls" ... and Dave Adams should be held accountable for his own actions.

Don't think the RAM Controls brand name is in any way salvageable.

I know there was a lot of money owed by Dave when I took this thing over. I had an attorney draw up the paperwork to shield myself somewhat should this get out of control. The way it was structured is that I took over the assets, the intellectual property, and the web domain as payment for the debt he owed me. David does not own any part of my business or the stock. He has no control over my business or how I choose to run the Ram Controls brand. I do have an agreement where he will answer any questions I may have about the stock, past orders, and guidance to create new products. I do not come from an arcade background so I put it in the contract that he would provide this help. I do have regular contact with him by text message and occasionally via phone, but he is trying to put his life together and he knew he could not continue Ram Controls so this was the best possible solution. I pretty much felt I would never see any of my money back so I made the deal.

Spunkmeyer: He is NOT receiving money from sales. He and I have a contract where he helps me from time to time since I did not come from an arcade background. I have owned many games in my life (Spy Hunter, APB, Assault, Smash TV, SW Upright) I have never repaired them so I needed training on how to assemble the controllers, identify the parts, etc. If I came on the scene and tried selling Ram Controls parts people would make that connection pretty easily and I would still be in the same situation. I think that the brand name is worth salvaging and I am putting in the effort to do so. Some may not agree but that is my choice.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 02:34:15 pm by Spunkmeyer »

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #84 on: June 16, 2011, 02:34:39 pm »
Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, this thread gave me a headache.  :dizzy:

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #85 on: June 16, 2011, 02:36:16 pm »
I haven't been following this whole thing too closely, but if there are a number of major outstanding debts, then there is a very clear and prompt solution to taking care of this issue.

1) Pay off everything you can. Ship everything you can.

2) File for ch. 11 bankruptcy, because if you are not able to pay off or fulfill orders on everything right away, then only only reason for that is you as a company are bankrupt. Every screwed customer will file a claim with you through the courts and you will avoid the impending legal fees. The people getting screwed do not want to be forced into a legal battle either. The quicker you file for bankruptcy, the quicker everyone will get their money back, as opposed to being jerked around forever on this and in the end nobody wins.


Making promises to pay back past debts based on hopes for future profits is total BS.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #86 on: June 16, 2011, 02:36:52 pm »
I know there was a lot of money owed by Dave when I took this thing over. I had an attorney draw up the paperwork to shield myself somewhat should this get out of control. The way it was structured is that I took over the assets, the intellectual property, and the web domain as payment for the debt he owed me. David does not own any part of my business or the stock. He has no control over my business or how I choose to run the Ram Controls brand. I do have an agreement where he will answer any questions I may have about the stock, past orders, and guidance to create new products. I do not come from an arcade background so I put it in the contract that he would provide this help. I do have regular contact with him by text message and occasionally via phone, but he is trying to put his life together and he knew he could not continue Ram Controls so this was the best possible solution. I pretty much felt I would never see any of my money back so I made the deal.

FYI....I had questions about Dave's involvement with Dan, so I went to the source and emailed him directly, at 10:30am central time. At 1pm, 2 and 1/2 hours later, his response came back to my email, with the above mentioned text, word for word.

@ pinballjim> Can YOU make your own Lunar Lander thruster? I think the intellectual property here would be the supply chains, cad drawings, production run specs, injection molder contacts, etc.
Man, will my cab EVER be finished?

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #87 on: June 16, 2011, 02:37:04 pm »
So wait, why did the guy do this, just to scam people and make the cash, or was he in trouble and needed it for something? How can you be in contact with him, since he is obviously a criminal? What is he doing now?
Pictures are overrated anyway.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #88 on: June 16, 2011, 02:37:20 pm »
Absolutely not so..

What about the countless hours David and other engineers spent drawing up all of this stuff in Solid Works. What about the build documents that specify exactly where a certain part came from and how much it cost. What about the website with all of it's pictures and descriptions of parts. What about the contact info I have for vendors and past customers. That is all VERY much intellectual property. Intellectual property is defined on Wikipedia as:

Intellectual property (IP) is a term referring to a number of distinct types of creations of the mind for which a set of exclusive rights are recognized—and the corresponding fields of law.[1] Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive rights to a variety of intangible assets, such as musical, literary, and artistic works; discoveries and inventions; and words, phrases, symbols, and designs. Common types of intellectual property include copyrights, trademarks, patents, industrial design rights and trade secrets in some jurisdictions.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2011, 02:38:58 pm »
See? Told you ;)
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2011, 02:41:14 pm »
Undeleted. It applies here too.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — [pauses] — shame on you. Fool me — [pauses] — You can't get fooled again."

Hence, I guess you can't get fooled again.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 02:48:17 pm by (+_+) »
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2011, 02:43:17 pm »


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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #92 on: June 16, 2011, 02:50:21 pm »
Mikezilla,

No, most of the money he took in for pre-orders was to pay for the completion of future products. He also took on too many projects at once and ran into a number of issues in their production. As I understand it most of the money taken in for those SW cabinets was to have some company make a batch of XY monitors brand new. He was hoping to keep the cash flow going to get this HUGE batch of projects completed. At the same time he lost his engineering job and it all fell apart. He started using Ram Controls money to survive. He has a wife and five kids and sometimes being on the brink of homelessness when you have a big family will make people do things they should not do. I personally do not approve of the methods he used and I think it showed a serious lack of business ethics, but I cannot in any way know how I would react if in the same position.

Dan

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #93 on: June 16, 2011, 02:51:35 pm »
Just because the intellectual property isn't covered by patent or copyright doesn't mean it doesn't have VALUE.

Again I ask - can you fabricate your own Star Wars yoke? I know I can't. But if I had Dan's IP I could. That's valuable information.
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #94 on: June 16, 2011, 02:53:06 pm »
So your saying Dave has no conection to Ram or its inventory??
be careful becasue unless hes got a private stash I know this not to be true.
and he still continues to rip people off this is RECENTLY weeks not months ago.

still making claims art is done using orginal films and IP on copying someone elses work :laugh2:

its not rocket science they are joystick parts :banghead:

@smalltownguy and yeah I can fabrication shops are aplenty and theres lots of chineese who work cheap.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 02:57:40 pm by rikitiki »
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #95 on: June 16, 2011, 02:53:11 pm »
I was going to PM this but after Dans last response I figure I'll post it here...

Since we're all about coming clean here...

Here are some issues that should be addressed with YOUR website Dan:

1.

From the ABOUT US link:

Quote
Founded in 2004, RAM Controls produces quality reproduction controls for classic arcade games.  Our staff is made up of several experts in the arcade manufacturing industry, with extensive experience in electronics & mechanical R&D, manufacturing, repair and part sourcing.  Our key designers and production personnel have over 80 years of combined experience in the arcade business. RAM Controls strives for the utmost quality, and our reproduction controls and parts are made to strict quality standards, often much higher than those installed in the original games.

The very first production item from RAM Controls was a reproduction Major Havoc controller, originally designed by James Marous in 2000.  He came up with a solid design but, unfortunately, only manufactured a one-off for his own use.  A few years later, Mark Davidson of Basement Arcade produced a couple of runs of the same exact design and quickly sold out.  Having a personal need for one of these controls and nobody having them available, RAM Controls was conceived overnight.  Starting with James original design and making a few modifications, RAM Controls has produced a quality product which has some notable improvements.

Our next reproduction item was the Atari button cones, released June 2006.  Our design is an exact replica of the original anodized aluminum parts which Atari used in their early machines.  This includes all three versions:  short aluminum, short black, tall black.  All three of our versions are made from machined aluminum stock, tapped to exact spec, polished and anodized.  Both the short and tall black cones are hard black anodized.  Hard black anodizing offers an additional level of coating which is not likely to "rub off" as normal anodizing is prone to.  In other words, these are quality parts with a tough, sleek finish.  Compared to NOS anodized counterparts, ours are actually better looking.  Interestingly, another vendor started supplying the tall black cones at the exact same time we did.  This caused the infamous "cone wars" between them and at least one vendor we supplied with our parts.  The "cone wars" was a short lived situation which resulted in low prices for the end user.

I've bolded the problematic area...

The first paragraph is a bunch of crap.  RAM's staff consists of... YOU.  It was crap when Dave was running the show...unless he's 90+ years old.

And then right on the main page...

Quote
Founded in 2005, RAM Controls produces quality reproduction controls for classic arcade games.  Our staff is made up of several experts in the arcade manufacturing industry, with extensive experience in electronics & mechanical R&D, manufacturing, repair and part sourcing. Our key designers and production personnel have over 80 years of combined experience in the arcade business. RAM Controls strives for the utmost quality, and our reproduction controls and parts are made to strict quality standards, often much higher than those installed in the original games.


How can people take you seriously when you throw out the BS right on the main page?  At least you took down the photo of the "RAM FACILITIES" that used to run on the page...


Then there is the news item:

Quote
3/15/11 - Please welcome Dan Johnston to the staff here at Ram Controls. Dan has taken the helm of the mail-order and wholesale departments of the company. His primary responsibility is to make sure the mail order and wholesale customers are well taken care of.

So Dan... have you taken over the mail order/whole sale departments or do you now run the show?   May want to update this?

Quote
07/02/10 - Missile Command control panels and Lunar Lander control panels with artwork screened directly onto metal are in-process.  Due for completion in November.

Quote
08/15/10 - Lunar Lander mission select panel and mission select panel wood base are in-process and due for November delivery.

These news item is nice... were those control panels completed in November?  How about the LL panels?  Hmmm... wait.  This is your site now Dan (Was it 3/15 or 5/15 that you took over Dan,   you've mentioned BOTH dates)... why not go for ACCURACY over FLUFFY BS?

One would think that someone who recently took over a tainted company like RAM would ensure the website was as accurate as possible before trying to boost business... no?

EDIT: Dan... i feel bad for you.  I really do.  You could be...and probably are... the nicest guy around.  But the bottom line is that RAM is tainted... and there isn't going to be any comeback for RAM until everyone gets paid back.  Where does that put you?   I am not sure... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in your shoes.  You may want to consider suing your buddy rather than taking on this stinker of a situation... that is,  of course,  you're in to being beat the hell by the very people you're trying to market to.  Dave has tarnished the RAM name and like others have said,  I doubt it will EVER be something  you can pin to yourself with pride.  RAM has become synonymous with SCAM. 

I'd reconsider the DAN CONTROLS name personally...

« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 02:59:09 pm by FrizzleFried »
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #96 on: June 16, 2011, 02:54:03 pm »
Mikezilla,

No, most of the money he took in for pre-orders was to pay for the completion of future products. He also took on too many projects at once and ran into a number of issues in their production. As I understand it most of the money taken in for those SW cabinets was to have some company make a batch of XY monitors brand new. He was hoping to keep the cash flow going to get this HUGE batch of projects completed. At the same time he lost his engineering job and it all fell apart. He started using Ram Controls money to survive. He has a wife and five kids and sometimes being on the brink of homelessness when you have a big family will make people do things they should not do. I personally do not approve of the methods he used and I think it showed a serious lack of business ethics, but I cannot in any way know how I would react if in the same position.

Dan

Thank you for clarifying that. I asked because I had a guy I know rob a bank he worked at because one of his kids was kidnapped and he needed the money for the ransom. Yeah... Living next to mexico kind of sucks some times but hey, what are you gonna do?  :P
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #97 on: June 16, 2011, 02:57:23 pm »
FrizzleFried

Your right about the website, it really sucks.  I have been spending my time trying to take care of the major issues and really have not had the time to fix every thing that is wrong on the website. Since you helped me identify those issues Ill work to clean them up.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #98 on: June 16, 2011, 03:01:23 pm »
If it's wrong, take the web site offline or remove the wrong pages temporarily.

And redesign it, so people know they are not dealing with Dave Adams anymore.


Your right about the website, it really sucks.  I have been spending my time trying to take care of the major issues and really have not had the time to fix every thing that is wrong on the website. Since you helped me identify those issues Ill work to clean them up.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #99 on: June 16, 2011, 03:02:40 pm »
Quote
So your saying Dave has no connection to Ram or its inventory??
be careful because unless hes got a private stash I know this not to be true.
and he still continues to rip people off this is RECENTLY weeks not months ago.

I cannot be absolutely sure that I have every scrap of inventory, in fact I know I don't. There is another guy who was selling off some of David's other crap and ended up with a few items of Ram Controls stock and was selling them on Ebay. I don't think he is doing it any more but I have not looked in like a week or so.

If there are other people selling Ram Controls stock, I want to know about it!!!!

Dan

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #100 on: June 16, 2011, 03:06:21 pm »
not other people but DAVE himself just curious how connected he still is to this inventory/company.

on the webiste how are those ampliphones coming along??
and lets not stop fixing the site where frizz left off theres more lots more
it may have been better to just launch a new site. if wait dave tried that allready.

dont stop there
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Atari Part # 040520-03
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Atari Part # 040382-05, 040532-04, 040532-06
 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 03:08:02 pm by rikitiki »
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #101 on: June 16, 2011, 03:25:03 pm »
I am going to remove all of the references to the monitors, they are just cluttering the site anyway.

Can you give me some more insight to your statement about the artwork. I don't know too much about this product. How do you know that this was or was not the case? I am not disputing what you are said I just want to know why you say it.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #102 on: June 16, 2011, 03:33:43 pm »
well for starters the films are currently in my possession
and have no intentions of screening them for RamControls
and Dave was told this numerous times as well as to remove that information.
I dont think I need to get into the details of the absolute ridiculas claims Dave was making and of his delusions of grandure.

Not to mention most of this artwork has allready been screened and is allready available.
with the final piece the sideart now in production.

Im assuming your IP came with who I am??
So how about those Lunar Lander and Missile comand control panels?
those must be small potatoes to the cockpits not quite ready.
and we still havnt heard that DAve dosnt have acess to the company/inventory??
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 03:53:37 pm by rikitiki »
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #103 on: June 16, 2011, 04:00:11 pm »
David has no access to my inventory. I am aware however that he has told a number of people that I have taken over Ram Controls and that orders are being shipped quickly. This might be the root of this issue. It is my understand that he has directed people to the website and told them to buy from me, but to the best of my knowledge he has not been selling any of the Ram Controls stock.

dan_ram

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #104 on: June 16, 2011, 04:02:32 pm »
I have made a few changes to the website and I will be making more soon..
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 04:06:51 pm by dan_ram »

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #105 on: June 16, 2011, 04:18:26 pm »
Dan, time to step up and POST over at KLOV and not hide over here!

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #106 on: June 16, 2011, 04:24:29 pm »
I am not hiding but I only have a set number of hours per day to be on the forums. I was advised by a number of members of the community that I have corresponded with to start here and work into it. I will be making some posts on KLOV soon but there is only so much I can do at once.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #107 on: June 16, 2011, 04:49:23 pm »
I have to say that was probably wise... as you're going to have a much easier time here than KLOV (if that tells ya just how much Dave ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- things up over at KLOV).

PS: Tell Mr. Adams "Friz says QUACK!" ... that thief will know exactly what I mean.
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #108 on: June 16, 2011, 04:56:25 pm »
I'm just glad someone has the grit to pick up that mess and try to make something worthwhile out of it.

I'm glad you're doing what you're doing, Dan. Once the debts with others are settled up, I'll look forward to RAM (or whatever you company decides it's name will be, if you decide to change it) making reproductions of other impossible-to-find things, headed up by an actually competent individual.

Good luck, and good on you for getting even this far with everything.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #109 on: June 16, 2011, 06:13:16 pm »
LOUD NOISES!


G'luck Dan.
If you are helping someone and expecting something in return, you are doing business not kindness.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #110 on: June 16, 2011, 07:01:10 pm »
Dan...

Something makes no sense to me, but you don't owe me an answer (I'm not a customer of RC):
Why did you assume debts of RAM controls rather than just buy up the inventory (for $XX minus what you were owed) and let Dave be sued?

Is RAM Controls incorporated? If not, then Dave is still liable AFAIK.


Also, I'd like to point out that the domain name records show the following:

Record expires on 21-Jun-2011
Record created on 21-Jun-2006
Database last updated on 28-Jun-2010


This means that the domain has NOT been transferred to you, otherwise the database update date would be more recent than almost a year ago.

You'd gain more faith by:
1. Opening your own business & website
2. Renewing the RAM domain, but set it to redirect to the new website
3. Open up the RAM domain registration info to 'public' so people can see it's truly been transferred (it's currently set to private)

« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 07:05:22 pm by RayB »
NO MORE!!

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #111 on: June 16, 2011, 08:07:31 pm »
I am not too concerned with what liabilities Dave has, that is really not my concern. If people can get blood out of that turnip I will commend them. My concern is to salvage the business, make things right with those owed, and release some new products.

As for the domain name issue, I have control of ramcontrols.com and ramcontrols.net which are on my registrar account already. I have access to the account where ram-controls.com is registered and am trying to move it over to my registration account right now. If I cant get it done by the time the domain expires at the current registrar I will just renew it for a year, but that is not my first choice. As for making the registration details public, I will politely say no. I have about a dozen domains for my other businesses all of which are privately registered and I am not about to change that.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 08:14:11 pm by dan_ram »

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #112 on: June 16, 2011, 09:01:55 pm »
Want to sell me a complete working USB yoke with decals for $250 shipped in order to regain trust in the community?
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #113 on: June 16, 2011, 09:23:28 pm »
Hello everyone,

I'm a lurker here but have been registered for 6 years and have been reading this site long before that.  I read this site often and have learned a lot from the posters here.

I also have some expertise in debtor/creditor laws including bankruptcy, and since I can finally comment on something here where I have knowledge, I will! For the purposes of this post I'll assume Dan is being truthful (and I believe he is).

What Dan has done will likely benefit the creditors of the former RAM Controls entity and the retro arcade community as a whole.  Dan's other option would have been to obtain a judgment and seize assets on that judgment, then selling the assets at auction or through a broker for pennies on the dollar.  If there were other registered creditors, they would have shared in the proceeds of the sale of those assets.  Those that were owed money but whom didn't sue and obtain judgment would have gotten nothing.  The know-how generated by Dave would have been lost.  I suspect Dan had a judgement or was close to getting one.  I say that because having read all the posts about RAM Controls over the years its clear Dave only acted when forced to do so, and for Dan to achieve what he has, he needed Dave's cooperation.  Dave probably cooperated once faced with real consequences instead of internet threats.  That's just a guess though.

The creditors of the old RAM Controls have the same rights against that legal entity as they do now.  Dan will have transferred the assets of the old RAM Controls into a new corporate entity which is legally free from the debts racked up under Dave's control.  As Dan stated, if you think you can get money out of Dave, go for it, but its like getting money out of a turnip, to use his words.  I would add that to get a judgment against Dave personally instead of his legal entity requires you to prove fraud, and while it seems there may have been fraud here, the bar is set high to prove that and its generally a hassle.

Dan appears to have been of the view that the value of the assets as an ongoing business were greater than the value of the assets breaking them up.  I think he's right, but it takes a lot of work to make the business work.

Dan can legally refuse to satisfy any and every creditor of the former RAM Controls entity.  He has chosen an alternative route, which is to try to salvage the reputation of RAM Controls by paying the creditors based upon profits from ongoing sales.  That's more than most would do.

Some in this thread are suggesting that Dan should take out a loan (or dip into his bank account), pay all the creditors up front, then carry on the business.  I suggest that is financially foolish, and were that Dan's only option, he would have simply obtained judgment, got a partial refund from the sale of assets, and walked away having learned a lesson like others have.  He's instead tried to make himself whole and in the process is trying to make the other creditors whole too.

He's making the best of a bad situation, and he should be encouraged not piled upon.  I've read complaints about RAM Controls for years and how people are going to sue him and make him act, but the only person who really achieved anything is Dan.  He deserves credit for taking action and not just complaining.

Well done Dan, I hope it works out for you.


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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #114 on: June 16, 2011, 10:53:23 pm »
Obviously Delgar is a shill planted by Ram controls over 5 years ago to use at this precise moment. GET YOUR PITCHFORKS BOYS! We'll stop by Delgars place on our way to Ram Control headquarters!


Seriously, I'd be ok if RAM made good on all the back orders...  except Chads.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #115 on: June 16, 2011, 10:58:08 pm »
@delgar thats the bigest crock Ive ever heard, and the sad part is its proably all true.
lets split things apart so much transfering entitys and properties so much that nobodys accountable.

like you said Dan has no legal resposblity to do so.
and basically good luck getting blood from a turnup.
god bless america and its loop hool thinking :angry:

lets fund everybody owed with 10 dollar tubes of nyogel and other misc parts in stock
Im sure those that paid thousands into cockpits will be happy to hear that.
 :applaud:
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 11:00:37 pm by rikitiki »
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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #116 on: June 16, 2011, 10:59:50 pm »
Dan, what's your Ebay seller name?
NO MORE!!

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #117 on: June 17, 2011, 02:05:12 am »
He started using Ram Controls money to survive. He has a wife and five kids and sometimes being on the brink of homelessness when you have a big family will make people do things they should not do.

Hopefully the State of California will give Dave a nice "home"...

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #118 on: June 17, 2011, 02:43:31 am »
well for starters the films are currently in my possession
and have no intentions of screening them for RamControls
and Dave was told this numerous times as well as to remove that information.
I dont think I need to get into the details of the absolute ridiculas claims Dave was making and of his delusions of grandure.

Hang on here.... Going O.T.

Are you the dude who snagged crazy amounts of old Atari materials when Atari closed their headquarters? I recall someone snagging oodles of manuals, memos, films and pallets of other stuff. I know he started scanning and posting the more interesting bits but since a particular install of an annoying OS that shall remain nameless decided to barf all over my files I haven't been able to recover the URL or the name of the person.

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Re: The current status of Ram Controls:
« Reply #119 on: June 17, 2011, 03:12:59 am »
Outside perspective:

Dave screwed over many people. Ram Controls lost all respect in the community. The community demands repayment. - I understand this.

Dan aquires the company after vague legal mumble jumble i don't understand. Instead of running with whatever repayment he could have made he decides to attempt to salvage Ram Controls, worth it or not is one's own opinion and only time will tell who is correct. Dan also decides, to accomplish this, he should do his best to repay those that are owed. - I also understand this

What I don't understand is the argument against him. Yes, if he was indeed Dave, it would make sense but all evidence says he is not. Alright. Next argument I see is why? Why didn't he grab what money he could and run? Maybe I am naive, but is there no one left with good business ethics out there any more? I think it will help recover the business in respect to the community and is just the right thing to do.  Changing the name would have only made things worse in my opinion. It would come out where the inventory came from and all hell to pay from the community from there. Also I see argument of advertisement. I admit, I don't scour this site but I do love it, I have seen no advertisment but only an attempt to right past wrongs that are not Dan's. People demand things be made right and rightfully so. But why argue to the one that is currently attempting to do so. I am not saying that he will right all wrongs or will indeed accomplish what he says, but as of now, the evidence says that is the direction.

I guess what I am really wondering is if Dan was able to grab all of the inventory and sell it with no connection to Ram Controls would anyone have a problem with that? That no one will get repayed for what was owed.  The inventory would dry up. How is that any better than what he is currently doing it? I doubt my confusion is being portrayed in my post but I just don't get the argument against Dan. Makes absolutely no sense other than an anger to company that really doesn't exsist any more.