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Author Topic: HELP: Trackball w/Optiwiz USB interface results in left/right not working  (Read 9922 times)

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unclet

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I bought a Happ 2-1/4" trackball online and tried to connect it to my older Mame PC via a mouse hack but did not have any luck.   I finally decided to purchase the OptiWiz and related harness to connect it to my Mame PC via the USB interface and discovered the up/right movement does not work after about 30 seconds of the trackball being plugged in, however, the left/right movement does work though all the time.   I informed the seller about this and he sent me out a replacement board which did not fix the problem.  

I decided to disconnect the trackball from my older MAME PC and connect it to my HOME PC and the trackball works fine all the time.   Obviously this is quite frustrating since I cannot use the trackball on my Mame cabinet.   I do not really want to upgrade my older Mame PC to a newer PC just to get the trackball to work, so I thought I would ask for help here first.

Do Happ 2-1/4" trackballs connected via an Optiwiz only work with USB2.0 or should they work with older USB1.x versions?

Does anyone have any other ideas on why my trackball/Optiwiz interface works fine on my HOME PC but does not allow left/right to work on my older MAME PC.  

The trackball is connected to my MAME PC directly into the USB port in the back of the computer (ie: no USB Hub involved).   Also, I tried both USB ports as well but nothing helps.  

Could it be that my power supply is not powerful enough perhaps?   I have a USB spinner and a couple of harddrives in the computer and then added the trackball Optiwiz USB interface as well.  I believe my power supply is a 200Watt or 300Watt, not sure ... it has been a while.

Any ideas?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 08:27:52 am by unclet »

BobA

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Could it be conflicting with the axis of the USB spinner?

unclet

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Nope, still happens even if USB Spinner not plugged in

BobA

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Well unless someone will say whether or not you can use the interface on usb 1.1 you could always upgrade to a USB 2 card that plugs into a pci slot.


Nephasth

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Does a USB ball mouse work with your MAME computer?

RandyT

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You don't need a 2.0 USB port for an Opti-Wiz.  There's no way I can think of that just one axis is going to refuse to work, while the other works fine, as a result of a USB issue. 

You don't say what OS you are using on your MAME computer, or how you are testing on each.  Windows?  At the desktop?  Just in MAME?  Important stuff for others to know when looking for the solution to such a situation as this one.

Sounds like a configuration issue of some sort, unless it's at the desktop.  I have never seen a situation like the one you describe at the desktop, unless there was a physical problem with the hardware or wiring, which wouldn't change based on the computer one attaches it to.

unclet

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Does a USB ball mouse work with your MAME computer?

I will need to check this out and let you know.

Quote
You don't say what OS you are using on your MAME computer, or how you are testing on each.  Windows?  At the desktop?  Just in MAME?  Important stuff for others to know when looking for the solution to such a situation as this one

I have Windows XP on my Mame computer and my home computer.   When my Mame computer comes up to the desktop then both axis work (left/right and up/down) with the trackball, however, after 30 seconds the up/down axis slowly stops work to the point it no longer works.  This is not a Mame thing since I am at the desktop only without Mame running yet.


If I remove the Happ trackball plus Optiwiz USB interface from my Mame computer and plug it into the USB port of my home computer everything works fine.  

« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 08:29:18 am by unclet »

RandyT

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This is a very bizarre issue.  When you were playing with the mouse hack, did you install any non-standard mouse drivers?  Have you tried uninstalling any and all HID mouse devices, and allowing Windows to re-install only those you are currently using?

It's starting to sound like your MAME computer (or the XP installation, due to malware, virii, modification, etc...) is on it's last leg, or you have some kind of power supply issue, though I don't know why / how it could only affect one of the axes of the trackball and not the other.  Isn't this the same type of issue you posted about here, and had working eventually?  What has changed since then?

unclet

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hehe ... Randy you are good.

Yeah when I first bought the Optiwiz and hooked everything up then the trackball seemed to work fine, however, after coming back to the machine later I discovered it stopped working in the same manner again.  I just did not have the energy to keep investigating it at that time and just decided I would not use my trackball.  

« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 08:30:22 am by unclet »

unclet

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*** CORRECTION ***
My trackball up/down axis does not work, the left/right axis always worked.  I stated this backwards in my previous posts (which I will update to be correct).  The overall issue is still the same though in that one axis stops working.


*** TESTS I JUST PERFORMED ***

I powered down my Mame PC and removed all USB devices (ie: trackball and spinner).

I booted up my Mame PC and plugged in a USB Mouse and the mouse functioned properly (ie: both axis work for a very long time).

I then removed the USB mouse and only plugged in the trackball (via the Optiwiz USB board interface) to the USB port on the back of my Mame PC.  The trackball left/right and up/down axis work fine, however, after about 30 seconds the up/down axis slowly deteriorates until up/down axis no longer works at all.  The left/right axis always remains working.

I then unplugged the trackball and replugged in the USB mouse and went into the Device Manager and see the following 6 things listed under "USB Controllers":

Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller
Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller
Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller
USB Root Hub
USB Root Hub
USB Root Hub

I tried uninstalling one of these but them lost the use of my USB mouse so could not uninstall them all.  It would be real great to know how to uninstall all of these so when I reboot my PC then Windows will reinstall only what it needs.

Does anyone have any ideas why my up/down axis on my trackball would work fine for about 30 seconds and then slowly stop working to the point where the up/down axis no longer works?

Any other ideas?







« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 08:30:59 am by unclet »

RandyT

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At this point, you will need to isolate where the issue is occurring. If you now know exactly which axis is causing you problems, you need to swap the axes and see what happens.  If you swap them and the problem changes to the left/right, then you still have a trackball issue.  If the problem remains on the up/down, then you have an interface or CPU problem.

unclet

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I already swapped the boards on the trackball long ago and the issue remained on the up/down axis , however, I will try to remove my trackball tomorrow and test that again.

Any ideas I can try first assuming this is an interface or CPU problem?

Actually since my USB mouse works fine all the time then how can this be a "CPU problem"?

RandyT

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Actually since my USB mouse works fine all the time then how can this be a "CPU problem"?

How can it work perfectly on a different computer, but not the one you are having issues with?  That, and the fact that you had a similar issue with your mouse hack, are two things which keep the CPU (PC, whatever) in the list of possibilities.  If it does the same thing on both systems, then it's the interface.

unclet

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Based on what you just reminded me there is a actually no reason to switch boards to test it out again since the trackball works perfectly on my home PC all the time.

Basically, I agree with what you are saying.  This is why I thought it could be the power supply last time I was looking into this issue.    I eventually got annoyed and stopped looking into this problem before since I spent money on a new trackball and spent a bunch of time hacking a mouse to find out it did not work.  Thought my mouse hack was bad so I decided to buy the Opti-Wiz interface and still the problem existed   :P   I just did not want to spend another $80-$100 on a new power supply hoping that would fix the problem.  If it would not fix the issue then I would be out about $300 on trying to get a new trackball working   :o

Anyway, I decided to see if anyone had any other things to try before I purchase a power supply route.

[EDIT]
Hmmm ..... I wonder if connecting my trackball into a self-powered USB hub would solve my issue?  This way my Mame PC would not be powering the trackball directly.  The USB Hub would be powering it I guess.  I might try to borrow one to test this out.
[EDIT]
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 09:58:40 pm by unclet »

unclet

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I tested with my self-powered USB Hub (ie: plugged into the wall) and this is what I found:

1) Only connecting my USB mouse to my Mame PC results in the mouse working all the time

2) Connecting only my USB Hub to my Mame PC and only connecting my USB mouse to the USB Hub results in the mouse working all the time

3) Only connecting my trackball (via the Optiwiz USB interface) to my Mame PC results in the trackball up/down direction working right away but then slowly stops working after about 20-30 seconds.  The left/right direction works fine all the time

4) Connecting only my USB Hub to my Mame PC and only connecting my trackball (via the Optiwiz USB interface) to the USB Hub results in the trackball "immediately" NOT working in the up/down direction.  The left/right direction works fine all the time



RandyT

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4) Connecting only my USB Hub to my Mame PC and only connecting my trackball (via the Optiwiz USB interface) to the USB Hub results in the trackball "immediately" NOT working in the up/down direction.  The left/right direction works fine all the time

That's even stranger.  You really need to swap the vertical and horizontal.  If the horizontal then starts doing what the vertical is doing, you can rule out anything PC related.  Also, does everything still work ok on your other system?

unclet

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That's even stranger.
Yep I know.

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Also, does everything still work ok on your other system?
UGH ..... now the trackball is not working on my home PC.  I swear it worked fine for days.   Geez, you must think I am on crack.   Anyway, I removed my trackball from my cabinet and plugged it into my home PC and it only works left/right.    I am going to disassemble the trackball and make sure the optics and encoder wheel are working properly because I know I verified it worked on my home PC way back when.    If the optics and wheel look ok, then I will swap the boards and retest everything.   Geez ....

Actually this is good news really, just frustrating   :P

I am attaching a picture of my OptiWiz below just for the heck of it.  The "X" connector is on the "A-B" pins and the "Y" connector is on the "C-D" pins.   The RED side of the power connector is on 5V and the other side is on ground.

The picture is not super clear since I got a new digital camera and have yet to figure out how to take a close clear shot yet    :P
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 01:39:26 pm by unclet »

unclet

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Currently:
When I spin the ball up/down, then nothing happens
When I spin the ball left/right, then the cursor moves left/right

After switching the molex connectors from the optic boards:
When I spin the ball up/down, then nothing happens.
When I spin the ball left/right, then the cursor moves up/down



« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 02:22:20 pm by unclet »

unclet

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INTERESTING FINDING

I put the "up/down" molex and "left/right" molex back on their proper PCBs once again and I am back to the point where the "left/right" works fine but the "up/down" stops working after 20-30 seconds.

When the "up/down" axis is not working I decided to unplug the "left/right" molex.  The "up/down" axis now works (been working for 10 minutes now).   Replug in the "left/right" molex then the "up/down" axis no longer works immediately and the "left/right" works all the time of course.

Not sure what this means.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 02:44:41 pm by unclet »

unclet

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Here is some history which might be important, not sure, but think I should mention it anyways.

I bought this new Happ 2-1/4" trackball on Ebay.  When I got it I connected the wires to my mouse hack and discovered it did not work.  After checking the mouse hack twice I could not find any problems but then I noticed one on the molex plugs on one of the PCBs was not on correctly.  Instead of all 4 pins of the PCB lining up with the 4 holes on the molex connector, then molex connector was moved down one pin so only 3 pins were connected into 3 holes of the molex connector.    It was over a year ago, but I might have smelled something shorting out, but I can not be sure now, but it does seem familiar know that I am thinking about it.

I placed the molex connector on properly but never could get the up/down axis working.  THe left/right axis worked though.  As a result, I contacted the seller and indicated that the trackball he shipped me had the molex connector not fastened correctly and my up/down axis was not working.  He sent me out another PCB board for free and I still could not get the up/down axis working.

At this point I considered my mouse hack must be the problem so I decided to buy the OptiWiz and all related cable connections just to finally get this trackball working but it still did not work.  The up/down axis did not work.

Anyway, I have no idea whether any of this matters, but thought I should mention this history in case others think it might be important to know.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 03:24:30 pm by unclet »

unclet

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Just came back to the trackball (which remained connected with the left/right molex unplugged still) and found that I can roll the trackball "up" but it does not work in the "down" direction now.   Weird.

RandyT

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It's possessed.   >:D

Seriously, though, this is the important result;

Currently:
When I spin the ball up/down, then nothing happens
When I spin the ball left/right, then the cursor moves left/right

After switching the molex connectors from the optic boards:
When I spin the ball up/down, then nothing happens.
When I spin the ball left/right, then the cursor moves up/down

What this tells you is that the interface has a ~99% chance of working properly.  When you give it what it wants on either axis, it does exactly what it should be doing.  So either the up/down (vertical) trackball pcb is bad (unlikely, based on the fact that you swapped it out already) or you have a wonky cable somewhere.  I'm guessing the latter, but I can't tell you which one.  You need to use a continuity checker on a meter to make sure each of the wires has continuity from one end to the other.  Based on the fact that you had problems with the earlier mouse hack, I suggest you start on the assembly connected directly to up/down axis's pcb.

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Just a thought, a trackball of the open-frame Happ type located in an area of bright light can show this kind of erratic behaviour as the light can interfere with the optical sensors.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 06:54:20 pm by AndyWarne »

unclet

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I disconnected the molex connectors from the trackball PCBs and disconnected the Optiwiz connectors (X,Y,Power/Ground) from the OptiWiz PCB.   I then confirmed continuity was fine through this complete harness.   Basically, I confirmed the two red wired molex pins mapped to the 5V pin on the Optiwiz, the 2 black molex pins mapped to the Grnd on the Optiwiz and all other colored pins mapped to only one unique pin on the Optiwiz as expected.  I also tested each pin against every other pin to make sure I only heard one continuity "beep" at the other end being tested.  Basically, I am confident the harness (trackball molex connectors through to the OptiWiz connectors on the other end) are fine.

Knowing I had this same issue of "up/down" axis not working using my mouse hack (way back when), I think I can rule out the OptiWiz board or provided USB cable as being the cause of the problem, so I guess that only leaves the trackball PCBs as being the issue.  Would you agree with this Randy?  If so, then I might just buy two new Happ trackball 2-1/4" PCB boards and replace both of them at the same time to make sure both are brand new to rule out any weirdness with the boards I currently have.   Or should I just buy a new up/down PCB board only I guess?

Perhaps all of this is caused by the seller giving me a second bad board.  I am assuming it was a brand new board but perhaps it was some old board he had stored around for years .....  :dunno

If you agree, then can you recommend a seller of 2-1/4" Happ trackball boards which I can use for my non-USB trackball (ie: my trackball was non-USB this is why I needed to buy the OptiWiz to allow me to connect it to the USB port obviously).  I do not believe you sell them Randy since I could not find them under the "trackball" section of your site.



« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 07:09:36 pm by unclet »

unclet

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Just a thought, a trackball of the open-frame Happ type located in an area of bright light can show this kind of erratic behaviour as the light can interfere with the optical sensors.

I have a Happ top plate which I use to connect the trackball to.  I do not think any light is coming through this to affect the sensors.  I just tried covering up both sensors with my hands (since I have the trackball currently disconnected) and that did not improve my results at all (ie: issue still occurs).


Right now I have the "up/down" molex connected and the "left/right" molex disconnected and the trackball is only moving my cursor "up" as the "down" does not work.   If I plug in the "left/right" molex again then the "up" and "down" do not work.

RandyT

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Knowing I had this same issue of "up/down" axis not working using my mouse hack (way back when), I think I can rule out the OptiWiz board or provided USB cable as being the cause of the problem, so I guess that only leaves the trackball PCBs as being the issue.  Would you agree with this Randy?  If so, then I might just buy two new Happ trackball 2-1/4" PCB boards and replace both of them at the same time to make sure both are brand new to rule out any weirdness with the boards I currently have.   Or should I just buy a new up/down PCB board only I guess?

I would just get a new vertical PCB to be sure.  I'm a little guarded about saying that this is definitely the problem, as you just stated that one vertical direction still works, but everything seems to point to TB PCB as being the issue.  Also make sure that the TB PCB is properly seated in the holder.  Grossly misaligned optics can also cause a condition where one direction works and not the other in the same axis.

unclet

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I would just get a new vertical PCB to be sure.
My current PCB boards are GREEN in color, but Happ now sells RED ones.  Does it matter whether I get GREEN or RED for replacements?

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I would just get a new vertical PCB to be sure.
My current PCB boards are GREEN in color, but Happ now sells RED ones.  Does it matter whether I get GREEN or RED for replacements?

It shouldn't matter, so long as everything is the same size and in the same position.  If they are considered "drop in replacements", then they should be fine.

unclet

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I would just get a new vertical PCB to be sure.
Ok, I think I will buy one to see if this fixes my problems.  No real need to buy two since my left/right one always seems to work fine even when switching the molex connectors.

Give me some time to purchase one and I will report back when I get to try it out.  
Thanks for all your help Randy !

Quote
Also make sure that the TB PCB is properly seated in the holder.  Grossly misaligned optics can also cause a condition where one direction works and not the other in the same axis.
I see no evidence of the trackball PCB being misaligned as it currently is positioned.

unclet

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Two things I have noticed

1) After taking apart my trackball unit to have a closer look at the PCBs once again I noticed my left/right PCB fit nicely in the slot where the "up/down" PCB has to be forced a bit to fit into the slot.  Both  of my PCBs indicate "EDM0340" on a sticker on the back and "15-128800" on the front, although, the up/down PCB does not fit nicely in the slot.

2) Also found this Ebay link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/WICO-REPLACEMENT-TRACKBALL-OPTICAL-BOARD-NOS-/380153020958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5882e2c21e

The seller indicates these are "MODEL #EDMO340" which is the same sticker I have on the back of each of my PCB boards.   Also if you look at the enlarged picture of the boards you will see the "15-128800" on the front of the board.  This is the same number on both of my PCB boards as well.

The weird thing is that the seller indicates these are for a Wico trackball and may fit a Betson as well, however, they are "TOO SHORT FOR HAPP TRACKBALL UNITS".

Interesting.


I am just going to order some from divemaster and see what happens

unclet

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SUCCESS!

I replaced both green boards with new RED Happ trackball boards and everything is working now perfectly on my arcade cabinet.  Although, with the new RED boards I did have to switch the "blue/purple" wires and the "green/yellow" wires though since the directions were opposite to what they should be due to the difference in the green vs red board pinouts.  

It is so nice having a working trackball again on my cabinet.
Thanks for all the help.   :cheers:
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 07:28:39 am by unclet »

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I am having a similar problem but mine is using a 3" happ trackball and using the mousehack.  I'm using an old logitech mouse with a PS2 connector.  After hooking it up, the desktop on recognizes vertical movement, no left to right.  The vertical movement is very fast - - - in other words, I scroll and the cursur is either at the top or bottom of the screen.  It's very fast.  I can't get the trackball to recognize left/right movement - regardless if I switch the PCB's.  I even ordered replacements from the supplier of the trackball - like you, they could be bad as well.

First, I wanted to make sure I hooked the happ wires to the Lq1 and Lq2 connectors correctly.  My happ trackball has green/yellow and purple/blue.  unclet Are those the pairings that I should use?  thanks.

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I am having a similar problem but mine is using a 3" happ trackball and using the mousehack.  I'm using an old logitech mouse with a PS2 connector.  After hooking it up, the desktop on recognizes vertical movement, no left to right.  The vertical movement is very fast - - - in other words, I scroll and the cursur is either at the top or bottom of the screen.  It's very fast.  I can't get the trackball to recognize left/right movement - regardless if I switch the PCB's.  I even ordered replacements from the supplier of the trackball - like you, they could be bad as well.

First, I wanted to make sure I hooked the happ wires to the Lq1 and Lq2 connectors correctly.  My happ trackball has green/yellow and purple/blue.  unclet Are those the pairings that I should use?  thanks.

Sounds like you have the pairs correct, but since you swapped the TB PCB's and got the same result, my instincts tell me that the mouse hack, or less likely, the wiring, is the problem

RandyT

jroyal

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Randy, thanks for the response.  Since I had to cut off the molex connector of the Happ Trackball, what do you suggest I do to get it working?  SHould I order the Optiwiz (USB) ?

Thanks in advance.

RandyT

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Randy, thanks for the response.  Since I had to cut off the molex connector of the Happ Trackball, what do you suggest I do to get it working?  SHould I order the Optiwiz (USB) ?

If you do, you would need to solder the wires to the board.  Alternatively, you can order the "No-Solder Version" and send me your TB harness.  We can install the connectors on it and return it with your order.  Either way, you'll be able to get the mouse hack out of the equation.

RandyT

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Awesome!  Thanks Randy.  When you say, send me your TB harness, are you referring to the white connectors with the red/back, green/yellow and blue/purple wires on them?  I will be glad to order and send that to you.  What address do I send it to?

Thanks a ton!

jroyal

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One more question, any suggestions to mount the trackball from the back of the wood?  I have 5/8" MDF that already has a paper backgound and the plastic laminate installed on the top.  I wanted to be able to install the trackball without having to remove all the buttons........ any ideas?


RandyT

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Awesome!  Thanks Randy.  When you say, send me your TB harness, are you referring to the white connectors with the red/back, green/yellow and blue/purple wires on them?  I will be glad to order and send that to you.  What address do I send it to?

Thanks a ton!

Yes, that's the one.  Place the order, drop a note in the comments at checkout and I'll contact you.

RandyT

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Before I order, any suggestions to mount the trackball from the back of the wood?  I have 5/8" MDF that already has a paper backgound and the plastic laminate installed on the top.  I wanted to be able to install the trackball without having to remove all the buttons........ any ideas?

If I need some sort of mount, I want to include it with the order!  Thanks again!

RandyT

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Before I order, any suggestions to mount the trackball from the back of the wood?  I have 5/8" MDF that already has a paper backgound and the plastic laminate installed on the top.  I wanted to be able to install the trackball without having to remove all the buttons........ any ideas?

If I need some sort of mount, I want to include it with the order!  Thanks again!

Trackballs are always a bit problematic to install.  The more cleanly one desires the integration into a panel to be, the more effort is required.   The simplest is, of course, the standard trackball mounting plate, which we carry.  This will give a large black square surround, which some don't mind, but others do.  This can be remedied by routing a pocket in the top of the panel the exact depth of the plate and "flush mounting" it.  One would then put an overly on the entire panel, leaving a hole to accommodate the lip of the ball housing.  The alternative is to route a pocket in the underside of the panel the size of the housing, leaving about 1/4" of material at the top.  One would then make a very clean hole for the lip of the ball housing, and perhaps route a beveled edge to make a clean transition.  The housing can be mounted to the panel with the use of carriage bolts (not as clean) or with "L brackets" from below.

Hope this clears it up a little for you :)

RandyT

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Thanks for the great explaination.  I think I'll go with the mounting from below since I have already installed all the buttons and all.  Thanks again.  I'll be ordering shortly and requesting where to ship the harness.  Just retain my Optiwiz USB and ship it after your receive my harness and are able to put the connectors on it.  I really, really appreciate it!

jroyal

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Randy, I ordered the OPtiwiz on Friday and included the note.  Please let me know where to ship my harness to.  Thanks!

RandyT

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Thanks.  Email sent.

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Got it and mailed it....thanks again!

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Just got back from vacation and what was in the mailbox?  My Optiwiz controller and the wiring harness that Randy wired for me!  It worked!!!!!! Thanks again to you Randy for your help.  Now, I just have to mount it!  Thanks again

RandyT

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Just got back from vacation and what was in the mailbox?  My Optiwiz controller and the wiring harness that Randy wired for me!  It worked!!!!!! Thanks again to you Randy for your help.  Now, I just have to mount it!  Thanks again

You're welcome.  Glad to hear it solved your issues.

RandyT