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Author Topic: i need networking help  (Read 4717 times)

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hulkster

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i need networking help
« on: August 19, 2003, 12:38:05 pm »
okay i need major help.  this is related to my arcade so im posting it here.  anyway, as shown in the diagram this is what im going to do.  i have two computers that i want to connect through walls, and the first one is connected through a router via dsl modem.  anyway, i want to be able to share the internet connection and all that..but my main problem is the wiring.  first of all, will this work?  will it be able to share the connection and all that just by creating a cat5 wire connecting to a jack in the wall...and then plug the router cable into the wall on one side, and then plug another cat5 wire from the other jack to comp1?  

secondly, will i need some protective covering of some kind for the open wire connecting to the connector thing in the wall jack?  like some kind of plastic covering?  PLEASE HELP ME!

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2003, 12:51:35 pm »
Hulkster,

Looking at your diagram it seems that you have it laid out correctly.  It should work.  I am guessing you will be using something like a Linksys router.  

You will plug your your cat5 into the router, it will than go to the wall jack, through the wall to another wall jack to another patch cable to the second PC.  This will work fine.  As for the bare cable... The ONLY bare cable you should have exposed is at the very end where the cat5 connector is attached.  When attaching the ends you will cut back about two inches of the cat5 cable exposing the four pairs. unwrap them so you have eight exposed single wires. now, your jack should be color coded so just make sure you have it the exact same way on both sides making it a streight through connection.  When you punch down the wires into the jack you want to be as close to the shielding as possible not leaving too much bare wire exposed.  (the twists in the cat5 cable are what make the cable move data at correct speed)  So leave as little bare as possible.

No snap the jack together put it in your wall plate and your good to go, you don't have to tape or cover it.  depending on what type of jack your using, most of them require a punch down tool, that cuts the excess wire off, and than you snap this little plastic cap on the jack where the wires connected. thats all there is to it.

Hope that helps....

hulkster

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2003, 01:10:03 pm »
yes!  that helps so much.  i just needed confirmation.  but i was wondering, i dont have a punch down tool, compusa didnt have them, but the guy said i could use a screwdriver.  is this okay?

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2003, 01:13:14 pm »
I highly recoommend a firewall in that setup.  Either a Hardware firewall between the router and the DSL modem or a software firewall on EVERY PC on the network.  A setup like that leaves your entire network wide open for internet evildoers.


edit:  If you decide on a software firewall check out Zone Alarm.  I think the website is www.zonelabs.com .  It's free and is pretty top-notch.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2003, 01:14:31 pm by shmokes »
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hulkster

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2003, 01:15:56 pm »
well the whole connection is going through my router, which acts a firewall, so im good.  

also, what does everybody use to hold wire to walls?  staple gun?  will that damage the wire?  

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2003, 01:35:01 pm »
i wouldn't use staples that would cause interference

use those plastic white coaxial cable holders you can buy at the home depot

+off topic+
do any of you other guys home depot have this auto checkout thing i think its kinda neat you scan your stuff and you slide your credit card

IT EVEN TALKS

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2003, 01:38:07 pm »
As far as punching down the wires, If you use a screwdriver, you run the risk of screwing up the jack.  Most people do if they try it... If you have a home depot around you they sell punch down tools, and tips...

But if you go to home depot, and buy a brand of jack called LEVITON, They come with a small plastic Punch tool... It pretty much sucks, but for two connectors...  You just wse it to jam the wires into the connector, than trim off the excess wire with a small scissor or wire cutter.

As far as a firewall is concerned, i would recommend a software firewall if anything, there are ways of protecting yourself that are pretty inexpensive, and depending on the OS your running...


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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2003, 01:46:49 pm »
well i already have jacks and connectors, and yes there is a home depot near by, so ill go get a punch down tool....and plastic coaxial cable holders?  is that what they are called?  so i can just tell the guys at home depot thats what i need, and they will point me in the right directions?

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2003, 01:57:27 pm »
Just ask for a punch down tool, and a 110 Blade...  the 110 blade is what use for the connectors.


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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2003, 03:11:05 pm »
Punch down tools and blades aren't cheap.  You may want to look at Home Depot's networking products like jacks and plug plates.  A lot of the store bought jacks come with a plastic punch tool for the do-it-yourselfer so you don't need to buy a professional tool that you may never need again.    

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2003, 06:41:05 pm »
Too bad I didn't see this thread earlier...   I love networking!

here are my opinions on the project, sorry if I repeat anything:

That layout is exactly what I helped install at a local coffee shop for their free customer internet access.  (minus a couple switches in certain places.)  It's been up for a year, still working, so you should be fine.  I think the kind of jacks you push the cable down into are less permanent though.  Pulling on the cable from the reverse side would yank the wire out.

Get a Linksys router!  Or maybe a Netgear.  I got a router that wasn't Linksys (it was SOHOWare) and it gave me ENDLESS grief!  I'm talking stuff like responding to WAN side dhcp requests, and attempting to broadcast packets on the WAN side using ip address 0.0.0.0.  My net admin a few years back had to come to my room and unplug the thing while I was gone, because it was kicking other people in my building off their connections.  There are also Linksys routers you can buy, where you can plug your printer into the router, and all computers on the network can print to it without any one computer having to be on all the time.

There are ethernet jacks that don't require punchdown tools.  All you do is strip the wires in the cat5, curl them under phillips screw heads, and tighten them down.  There are also jacks that are completely enclosed in a plastic box, and that plastic box just sticks to a wall using double-stick tape.  (you could use those pull-remove 3M foam tapes too.)  but it wouldn't look as professional as a wall jack.

I recommend using a higher grade than cat5.  Get cat5e, or cat6, if you can.  I frequently see them for the same price as cat5, and while cat5 will get a connection just fine over long cable lengths, I think you'll get less packet loss with cat5e and cat6, and you'll be able to plug a gigabit ethernet card in later without upgrades.  (that would mean being able to do things like virus scan a computer across the network, watch a DVD that has been stored on another comp's hard drive, or put your noisy drives in a different room so your main computer stays quieter.)

I've seen jacks that came with insulated enclosures and jacks that didn't.  You do need something to protect the contacts in the jack from whatever falls down between your walls, but I think most of the wall-mount ethernet jacks fit into the same kind of metal enclosure as light switches and electrical outlets.  You might use a caulk or putty filler of some kind around the holes, because the one jack in the coffee shop that was in one of those metal enclosures stopped working after a few months.  I suspect something fell down and shorted a contact and did something to the router's port it was plugged into, because that jack wouldn't work on that port after that - only other ports.  A hub worked on the weird port though, and that's still running.

The plastic brackets you need for cable mounting are called "cable staples" at Lowe's.  It's a little finishing nail with a plastic U attached to it.  If you have any cable running on the outside of the walls, you can also get a cable conduit you can run the cable through and stick to the wall, and paint to match colors.
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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2003, 06:47:56 pm »
You can get all your supplies from radio shack.  The crimper, the cat5 ends, the wall jacks if you want to run the wire through the walls.  The packaging comes with wiring details.

You have a router?  Which one?

I've tried many routers and the Linksys routers are by far the easiest to setup and have the most flexable features, especially with port forwarding.  There aren't that many routers that do ranges of ports instead of just individual ports.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2003, 06:48:38 pm by SirPoonga »

grafixmonkey

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2003, 07:11:30 pm »
Check this thing out:

(Linksys BEFW11P1)
ftp://ftp.linksys.com/datasheet/befw11p1ds.pdf
http://www.linksys.com/support/support.asp?spid=67

Get that and a wireless networking card for your other pc, and you might not do any wiring at all.

Don't expect the wireless to go for more than 80 feet though.  It covers most of my house, but there still are places with no access.  (usually in the farthest corners from the router.)  The wireless only goes up to 11 megabit, but that is faster than your DSL uplink will be anyway.

Oh and expect to do a firmware update on a linksys router plugging into a DSL modem.  It's quick and easy.  My local DSL provider uses a modem with linksys on their incompatibility list, but the firmware update fixes it.
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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2003, 07:48:40 pm »
well guys thanks for all the responses.  ive already started wiring.  i have some connector thingys (whats the name for those?) that im wiring right now.  but im leaving myself some extra wire just in case i screwed up on the connection.  the print on the cat5e wire that i have says 586B or whatever...so thats the wiring diagram i used on the side of the connector, hope thats right.  i bought a connection tester, but i guess its only for when i make my own ethernet cables, not for wires connected to outlets.  oh well.  i got some of those coaxial holder things too, and im getting ready to start using them.  lets just hope it all works when im done!

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2003, 07:57:45 pm »
Information for anyone just starting a wired network:
Check at www.compgeeks.com for cable and crimpers.  Search on Cat5e and Cat6.  Look for kits with 1000 feet, RJ-45 connections, and crimpers.  There are also kits that include wall plates and keystone jacks for crazy prices, but those tend to sell out.

As of 8-19, here is a package:
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=B-CAT5E-1000-30U-SK

Package Includes:
One (1) 1000-Foot Cat5e cable on a boxed spindle
One-hundred (100) 30u RJ-45 connectors (packed inside cable spindle box)
One (1) RJ-45 Crimper
One (1) Network Cable Tester
One (1) Cable Tester carrying case

$38.99 + about $15 to $20 shipping.

Here is one of the kits that is out of stock ($99 + shipping, Home Depot sells keystone jacks for about $6.47 apiece and RJ-45s for $8 per 25 ):
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=C-CAT6-DLX-K3&sourceid=00383885807862427769&bfinfo=8796-0-0-0-pewm8


Package Includes:
One (1) 1000-foot spindle Genica Cat6 cable w/ 100 30u RJ-45 connectors
One (1) Cable tester
One (1) RJ-45 cable crimper
Ten (10) 25-foot Cat6 patch cables
Ten (10) 10-foot Cat6 patch cables
Ten (10) Single port face plates
Ten (10) Dual port face plates
Thirty (30) Keystone jacks
« Last Edit: August 19, 2003, 08:04:02 pm by Wienerdog »
This opinion was created from 100% post consumed information.

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2003, 08:23:40 pm »
im leaving myself some extra wire just in case i screwed up on the connection.  
You'll be glad you did  ;)   I know I always am!

Quote
the print on the cat5e wire that i have says 586B or whatever...so thats the wiring diagram i used on the side of the connector, hope thats right.
You mean order of wires?  

brown
lite-brown
green              <-------
lite-blue            <------   if connector is pointed this way
blue                 <------   with metal contacts facing you
lite-green                     and wire pointing this way  ------>
orange
lite-orange

just in case you needed it.    :)   Swap orange and green to make a crossover cable.

Quote
 i bought a connection tester, but i guess its only for when i make my own ethernet cables, not for wires connected to outlets.  oh well.  

How much you pay for the cable tester?  I frequently need one, but don't have one yet...   I might wanna buy it off you.
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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2003, 10:14:02 pm »
well the cable tester was like 70 bucks and i just got it today...so no selling for me :-)  i bought it at home depot

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2003, 01:51:52 am »
alright, got it all setup!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2003, 01:57:52 am by hulkster081 »

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2003, 09:32:32 pm »
Concerning the firewall question...

The router will probably have a built in NAT firewall which will hide the machines on your network from the outside world but if you get a trojan on one of your machines it won't prevent the trojan from connecting to machines outside your network and sending information out.  Windows XP has a built in firewall but it only prevents incoming traffic and not outgoing.  Something like ZoneAlarm works both ways and would help detect trojans.  I'd recommend you be careful with what you install on the machines and / or install a good virus scanner such as Norton and a good trojan / pest scanner such as PestPatrol.

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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2003, 03:26:05 am »
I think as long as you're reasonably careful about what you open you avoid trojans pretty easily.  People like my dad get stuff in their inbox saying "Snow White Seven Dwarves ************  <--[something obscene]" with an .EXE attached, and go right for the 'open attachment' button...   that's how people get trojans.

That, and by opening executables that randomly appear in their Kazaa folder, etc.


I'd say go straight for ZoneAlarm, but you have to strike a balance between being able to use your own network and having it safe from the outside.  You want perfect security, you pull all the plugs out, but you won't get much out of the network.   Install a NAT firewall and zonealarm on the pcs behind it, and I bet you won't be sending any files to people over AIM and MSN any time soon.
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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2003, 07:57:12 am »
How can files just randomly appear in your Kazaa folder?  
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Re:i need networking help
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2003, 02:54:02 am »
If it's operating as a supernode, other peoples' kazaa progs will automatically mirror their files to your computer to "spread the download wealth".  Or maybe that feature was only in Morpheus.  I know my sister was getting random files in her sharing program once, and some were viruses and many of the rest were porn.   :P
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