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Author Topic: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test  (Read 28034 times)

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newmanfamilyvlogs

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2011, 11:47:25 am »
I'm only around 75% certain of that information. saint's note - possible personal info removed... Thanks guys, but no pitchforks and burning torches please :). Though as that's the only listing with that last name in all of NZ, as far as I can tell, and Zelko has positively identified himself as a NZ resident in a Digg post some time ago, it seems unlikely to be unrelated.  :dunno
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 12:14:25 pm by saint »

BadMouth

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2011, 11:52:47 am »
saint's note - Driver-man is determined to get this out. I don't have an issue with the technical discussion. He was banned for not following the rules of civility on the forum despite being asked repeatedly. Accordingly, I've nuked his personal commentary from this post of his, but left the technical bits. This account of his is also banned (that's 4 now for anyone counting). I have lots of patience and no personal emotional investment in this.

In the original post, he was begging Xiaou to submit the code to MAMEdev, instead of just submitting it himself.
More evidence that he has no intention of actually resolving anything.
He just wants to argue in circles and see how much time he can get other people to waste.
There should be a forum just for trolls, where they just waste each others time.

He uses proxy's, so banning the IP isn't going to do much.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 07:59:51 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2011, 11:56:44 am »
There should be a forum just for trolls, where they just waste each others time.

Ask and you shall receive ...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/board,31.0

Wait, who was the fool who gave me access to PnR ?

 :dunno
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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #83 on: January 27, 2011, 12:01:10 pm »
And if we're road trippin', I'll go to New Zealand straight away.   :)

I like Steinlager and have always wanted to pay spacies a visit ...
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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2011, 01:20:34 pm »
There should be a forum just for trolls, where they just waste each others time.

Ask and you shall receive ...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/board,31.0

Wait, who was the fool who gave me access to PnR ?

 :dunno

I knew there was a reason I never asked for entry to PnR!  ;D
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Derrick Renaud

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2011, 01:38:43 pm »
To further the technical discussion:

The latest idea to use the -joy & -mouse options to select between options in the driver code would be refused.

Options should not be used in this way.  They are used to tell the MAME core how to operate, not game code.  Not one file in the src\mame directory accesses options using options_get_string()  The -joy & -mouse options tell MAME that these devices are hooked up to the computer.  Not how a game is to behave.

Doing so limits the user.  If it was done with the -joy options, then you are forcing the user to use the joystick simulation, when maybe they are using -joy just to use the inc/dec buttons on their joystick.

As for fixing the sprite flicker, submit the code as everyone has told you.  I do not make the MAME decisions.  The submissions are sent to everyone on the team for discussion.

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #86 on: January 27, 2011, 03:46:32 pm »
5) Neither Haze nor Derrick are in charge of the Driver Inclusion.  A good submission will be handled by the project leader.

Decisions tend to be delegated to those who have actively worked on an area of the code.  Derrick, being an actual developer has direct access to SVN, and can check changes in directly.  Aaron handles very little directly, there are many areas of MAME, he can't possible make decisions regarding every single one because he doesn't have the knowledge to do so (I doubt ANYBODY knows the entire MAME code-base inside out)

As a developer Derricks decisions are trusted.

6) Derrick is much more willing and flexible to adding things and helping out than Haze.
While you and him might not completely agree... you might be able to learn and share from each other ... IF... you can calm your attitude down.

It's Derrick's area of the code, had you come to me with problems more related to my areas of the code I'm sure you'd find me to be just as helpful at getting them sorted out.  I've worked with plenty of people in the past doing just that.  IOW you found the right guy, the one who knows and understands that code well, and can make + approve appropriate changes as well as reject ones that seem inappropriate whereas I could only give you the overall policy.  This is what has happened.

Derrick came here of his own accord.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 03:49:25 pm by Haze »

Derrick Renaud

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2011, 07:38:04 pm »
Let's throw this thread sightly off topic.

MAME - the conspiracy.

I know everyone thinks that MAMEdev is some huge corporation that holds closed meetings and mainly discusses how we can torment the public.  We revel in keeping all the good drivers to ourselves, etc.

But truth be told, it is just a mailing list that loosely keeps things together.  Prove that you are a useful contributor and won't run amok with the code and you are in, if you want.  Then you too will get all the hidden drivers, ROMz, Babez, etc.

Actually, sorry to disappoint.  Being a DEV gets you nothing special.  No Babes, no hidden ROMz, etc.  You just get to help out more by giving your say on code in your area of interest.  Even then, the team leader has final say.  For this you get some public thanks and some public scorn, all while collecting a salary of $0,000.00.

Come join the team.

I started out just figuring out unknown DIPs.  I did not even know how to contact MAME and could not compile the code myself.  That DJGPP compiler kept crashing and I never once got it to work.  I believe Tiger-Heli or Triggerfin submitted my first attempts.  Then MAME switched from DOS to Windows.  While I'm never a big fan of the necessary evil that is Windows, at least with the new compile tools  I could now compile and test my own code.

From there I looked into how the sound system worked and figured out how do get sounds in the old games I was/am interested in.  I've played around with the input system due to my desire to make the controls better and easier to use.

All along the way I have received no money and nothing special from being on the MAME team that every other MAME user does not have access to.  Other then access to the mailing list, which needs to be private so we don't have to deal with stuff like what you have read recently on the forums.

So it really is just as simple as "Submit your code."  And yes we don't have the time to bother to respond to all submissions.  No one kept me up to date on anything I submitted.  If it was accepted, I would see it eventually in the MAME code.  Then look to see what they changed in it.  The changes gave me a better idea of how the team at the time liked things done.  I did not hate them for it.  I learned from it.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 08:47:57 pm by Derrick Renaud »

Derrick Renaud

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #88 on: January 27, 2011, 07:43:32 pm »
Now, sort of back on topic.

I did a quick patch to make Return of the Jedi easier to play with a mouse.  This will not be in the official MAME, but I am interested in other games that use that kind of throttle control for movement.  Speed increases only while moving stick forward.  Centering keeps at that speed.  Moving stick back reduces speed.

I'm thinking Paperboy speed axis, but don't know of any other games.

See the patch here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=108813.msg1155368#msg1155368

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2011, 08:56:05 pm »
Is this thread still viable for driver/performance feedback? If so, I'd like to say that the 'joystick' option in current MAME doesn't seem to work very well, and works differently than the original analogue stick implementation.

In the new format, I had trouble getting very far in the game, because I had to hug the periphery of the stick's range. If I did not, there was a snapping movement of the skater toward the direction that my joystick next registered.

In the old analogue stick feature, I was able to get my highest score ever (50k+) using a digital stick.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 08:59:15 pm by Gray_Area »
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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2011, 09:26:41 pm »
I don't believe you.  I know there are MAME babes.... Otherwise it sounds an awful lot like running a forum :)

Let's throw this thread sightly off topic.

MAME - the conspiracy.

I know everyone thinks that MAMEdev is some huge corporation that holds closed meetings and mainly discusses how we can torment the public.  We revel in keeping all the good drivers to ourselves, etc.

But truth be told, it is just a mailing list that loosely keeps things together.  Prove that you are a useful contributor and won't run amok with the code and you are in, if you want.  Then you too will get all the hidden drivers, ROMz, Babez, etc.

Actually, sorry to disappoint.  Being a DEV gets you nothing special.  No Babes, no hidden ROMz, etc.  You just get to help out more by giving your say on code in your area of interest.  Even then, the team leader has final say.  For this you get some public thanks and some public scorn, all while collecting a salary of $0,000.00.

Come join the team.

I started out just figuring out unknown DIPs.  I did not even know how to contact MAME and could not compile the code myself.  That DJGPP compiler kept crashing and I never once got it to work.  I believe Tiger-Heli or Triggerfin submitted my first attempts.  Then MAME switched from DOS to Windows.  While I'm never a big fan of the necessary evil that is Windows, at least with the new compile tools  I could now compile and test my own code.

From there I looked into how the sound system worked and figured out how do get sounds in the old games I was/am interested in.  I've played around with the input system due to my desire to make the controls better and easier to use.

All along the way I have received no money and nothing special from being on the MAME team that every other MAME user does not have access to.  Other then access to the mailing list, which needs to be private so we don't have to deal with stuff like what you have read recently on the forums.

So it really is just as simple as "Submit your code."  And yes we don't have the time to bother to respond to all submissions.  No one kept me up to date on anything I submitted.  If it was accepted, I would see it eventually in the MAME code.  Then look to see what they changed in it.  The changes gave me a better idea of how the team at the time liked things done.  I did not hate them for it.  I learned from it.
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Derrick Renaud

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2011, 09:35:08 pm »
Is this thread still viable for driver/performance feedback? If so, I'd like to say that the 'joystick' option in current MAME doesn't seem to work very well, and works differently than the original analogue stick implementation.

In the new format, I had trouble getting very far in the game, because I had to hug the periphery of the stick's range. If I did not, there was a snapping movement of the skater toward the direction that my joystick next registered.

In the old analogue stick feature, I was able to get my highest score ever (50k+) using a digital stick.

I will look into it next week.  All I can say though is that the Joystick code was not changed.  You may have to go back into your settings and disable the joystick inc/dec options.  Any settings you previously made will be changed with the new code.  This also includes any settings you previously made in the analog settings.  Unavoidable due to adding the 2 new options and renaming the joystick ports as FAKE.

Derrick Renaud

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2011, 09:36:44 pm »
I don't believe you.  I know there are MAME babes.... Otherwise it sounds an awful lot like running a forum :)

 ;D

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2011, 10:09:25 pm »
Heh, I find it interesting that Haze is against multiple control input methods due to code maintainability.. yet Derrick is all about putting in tons of hacks to be 'maintained'.   

 Personally, I dont care if there are hacks, as long as they are not the default.. or are confusing others as to what the game really used.  There are always times when a person might not have a proper controller... and its nice to have the ability to substitute.


 If there truly isnt leadership, then I have to say that its no wonder why things are such a mess... But then again, Derrick has stated in previous posts points that are completely contrary to that... saying that certain changes will probably get rejected.  If there was no leadership, or someone to review and check over things... there wouldnt be any trouble with making any changes... or any reason to fear a driver from being rejected.

 This is at least the 2nd time Derrick has changed his tune.

 Derrick has mentioned money.. as if that is what will motivate changes such as adding better shifter support.. then Im sure we can get enough driving fans to donate to him.

 If not, maybe Driver-Man can silently submit a fix that might just get accepted.

 Its funny, all the Hypocrisy that is behind the mame team.  Admittedly Driver-Man was way too brass knuckles. But he might still be able to be helpful regardless.  If Devs are against new people, then it goes against the call for Developers help... and it goes to show that getting to make changes, and be a dev that gets in the elite club, is not as easy nor friendly as they say.  And it only proves why more people with talent have not joined up to add more efforts to the mame preservation goals.

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2011, 11:02:50 pm »
It seemed as though the biggest concern with driverman's code was that part of it wasn't his, and the other part didn't adhere to the conventions being requested in implementation.

The issue is only partly "does it work?", it's also "how does it work?". If someone coded a 3dfx to D3D wrapper for Vegas engine games (and these already exist), it would be rejected on similar grounds because that's not how they want to solve the problem.

Derrick Renaud

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #95 on: January 28, 2011, 12:11:21 am »
Futile.

 :banghead:

(edit) For the 100th time. SUBMIT THE CODE!

(edit 2) The above was not meant against cotmm68030's post.

I Just don't understand what is so hard to understand that if arabara has some magical shifter code, sprite fix code, etc, then submit it, submit it, submit it.  Maybe saying it 3 times in a row will make it happen.  Strange as it seems, that is how stuff gets added to MAME.  Not by stating the world is against me and stopping me from submitting it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 12:57:16 am by Derrick Renaud »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #96 on: January 28, 2011, 12:51:50 am »
Heh, I find it interesting that Haze is against multiple control input methods due to code maintainability.. yet Derrick is all about putting in tons of hacks to be 'maintained'.

Yes, that is why I posted the 3 control hack patches on the software forum and did not submit them.  You realize that we do allow digital control of analog devices for ease of use.  That is a hack.  Map lightguns to joystick guns.  Mice to analog sticks and guns.  More hacks.  Or maybe we care about ease of use.  Which is why I asked if other games used a Return of the Jedi type centering thrust type analog axis.  Currently MAME maps the mouse as a non centering analog joystick.  I was wondering if there were enough cases to warrant the ability to map the mouse as a return to center device so it behaved closer to the real control, as in the patch I mentioned on the software forum.

(edit) Instead of discussing what the Sinister Derrick is all about, can we stick to the topic of what games used that type of control? (edit)

So the options are remove the ability to use the mouse as a joystick, or improve the remapping so it has the ability to behave more like the real control.

While I can't speak for him, I don't believe Haze is completely against more type of controls,  as long as they are well thought out core implementations and serve a purpose.  He just states as I have,  "No one is interested in coding it"

Personally, I dont care if there are hacks, as long as they are not the default.. or are confusing others as to what the game really used.  There are always times when a person might not have a proper controller... and its nice to have the ability to substitute.more efforts to the mame preservation goals.

The world is ending, I did something that X2 agrees with me about.   ;D  Notice you can select "Real" in 720 which means the others are fake and are there for ease of use.  Well spinner is also there to accurately simulate synced rotate/center data.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 01:12:37 am by Derrick Renaud »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #97 on: January 28, 2011, 01:06:05 am »
"No one is interested in coding it"

Let me clarify this.  I did not want to edit the post, because that makes people think something sinister is going on.

720 - Very minor thing added.  Difference in code was quite small.  Never ending flack because of it.

That really makes people interested in doing more.  Not to mention we have to wait a few years to make sure some other shifter submission is not lost in the mail.  Would not want to be the cause of more hate.

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #98 on: January 28, 2011, 11:23:18 am »
Its funny, all the Hypocrisy that is behind the mame team.  Admittedly Driver-Man was way too brass knuckles. But he might still be able to be helpful regardless.  If Devs are against new people, then it goes against the call for Developers help...

I don't think anybody wants another 'Guru' to be added to the list.  As has been stated, all Driver-Man was doing was pulling up a tiny amount of code from old versions while demonstrating an attitude that belonged at a playgroup even without anybody provoking him and without actually having achieved anything to even attempt to warrant his treatment of people actually involved.

I've stated elsewhere that I'm not against such things being done in a way which doesn't break existing functionality / testability on normal hardware. (I'm not Aaron, I'd even consider extra commandline switches / configuration files myself)

I wouldn't agree to adding fake buttons to defender, fake joystick hacks to assault, or even the 'run like hell' garbage that used to be in track n field etc. because they're 100% usable on a keyboard / pad as it is, but some games are simply untestable without some degree of hacks.  Prebillian, for example, would be completely unusable without the 'power' display added to the OSD (I think)

Reasonable decisions must be made on a case by case basis.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 11:32:04 am by Haze »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #99 on: January 28, 2011, 11:01:01 pm »
Quote from: Derrick Renaud
For the 100th time. SUBMIT THE CODE!

The latest idea to use the -joy & -mouse options to select between options in the driver code would be refused.

Whom did you consult, or is that just YOUR own OPINION?

Submitting code just to be refused is waste of time, no?


You are doing the same thing again. I'm not submitting anything untested. How abut we let people decide, or at least let's hear their opinion first. Vox populi, vox dei, do you agree?



Quote
The submissions are sent to everyone on the team for discussion.

Where was your submission discussed, by whom? It was only me trying to discuss it here and on MAMEworld forum, and I got more support there among MAME devs than you, even though everyone hated me. -- Why would we not discus it BEFORE submission is made, would that not make more sense?



Quote
Options should not be used in this way.  They are used to tell the MAME core how to operate, not game code.  Not one file in the src\mame directory accesses options using options_get_string()  The -joy & -mouse options tell MAME that these devices are hooked up to the computer.  Not how a game is to behave.

Ugghhh. MAPPING, it's all about mapping. I do not read command line parameters, but use the same information "inptport.c" uses to separate between digital, absolute and relative devices. I could just as well use the information from UI mapping menu, just like you get your string variable from your new menu. It's all the same to me. As I said, you only had to PICK one of my solutions, and now you finally did.


If this was some good movie you would have realized by now that crazy old drunk is not a fool, but great and wise Code-Fu master, in disguise. This so far was with my both hands in my pockets, let me now show you some real moves...

ShaaaZZzzzzaam!
http://www.mediafire.com/?skcth05nid0txbb  ...the school is Wudang,
technique... female form of 'eight trigram palm', KaabOOoooshhh! -:


* Fixed sprite flickering/disappearance (broken since .115)

* Jittery analog motion diagnosed/attended, can be fixed in several ways.

* SIMULTANEOUS support of all the devices! Play with analog hack and authentic spinner or mouse, and keyboard, in the same time.

* Easy for testing without any menu selection or need to change anything anywhere, other than to map your input devices in whichever way you want, as usual.

* Maximum flexibly, you can map any devices to both authentic or hack input.

* Does not use command line parameters or whatever external data to the driver - the only files need changing is "atarisy2.c" for control fixes, and the file requiring correction for flickering is "atarigen.c".


Code-Fu in slow-motion....

Code: [Select]
static READ8_HANDLER( leta_r )
{
     static int    last_in, input, rotations, last_angle, angle;
     int aX=    input_port_read(space->machine,  "LETA0") - 127;
     int aY=  - (input_port_read(space->machine,"LETA1") - 127);
     int relative_in = input_port_read(space->machine, "LETA2");
        if(aX!=0 || aY!=0){
             if((angle= atan2(aX, aY) *22.9183)< 0) angle+= 144;
             if(last_angle > 120 && angle < 24) rotations+= 144;
             if(last_angle < 24 && angle > 120) rotations-= 144;
             input =           (last_angle = angle) + rotations;
        }else if(last_in!=relative_in)last_in=input=relative_in;
        return((offset&3)<1)?
                input_port_read(space->machine,"LETA3") : input;
}// +=1;

Beautiful, isn't it? This little piece of code does all that I said above, and so can substitute hundreds of your lines with unnecessary bloat and fiddling with MAME core engine.


Derrick & Haze: - Master, please forgive, we have failed!

You fought well, but you fought me, so master understands.


1.) Do you want to know how to fix flickering animation?

2.) Do you want to know how to solve jittery analog motion?

3.) Do you want to use my new algorithm to handle analog hack?

« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 02:36:55 pm by marcusP »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #100 on: January 29, 2011, 02:54:44 am »
marcusP

 Tested new upload.

 While this seems to work with a mouse well...   
It will not work with a real 720 controller.

 A real 720 controller has 2 optical reader discs.
 
 Dial a (72 spokes)  = read rotation of the player
 Dial b (2 spokes ONLY ) = calibrate player to face north if reading is true/on

 Dial b will only be read Once in a full rotation.  When it is read, it will immediately snap the player to face North.   With your code, it is not snapping north immediately... its incrementing gradually over time.  There was also a decrease option... which should not exist.

 The reason for the Instant snap to North, is because the if the player is facing the wrong direction when the stick is pointing North... the Dial B will let the game know that the stick is north, and to make the player face north right now... so that the stick direction matches the player direction.

 

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #101 on: January 29, 2011, 05:05:24 am »
Ok, heres a visual so its easy for anyone to understand how the real controller works:

 Parts:  (from top to bottom)
  1) Controller Lever
  2) Encoder 1  ( 72 notches )
  3) Encoder 2  (  2 notches )

 Color Key:

 Light Blue Dots = Notches (holes where the sensor can read through )
 Orange           = Sensors (can tell if a notch has passed, and in which direction)


A) Game starts and the Skater is facing diagonally left... but the stick is pointing diagonally right.   The game does not know this, because Encoder 1 isnt capable of telling the machine which way is Up.  It can only track movement.

B) When the player spins the controller, the 2nd encoders 2 notches go past the sensor.  The sensor tells the game that the stick is now in the NORTH position, so please reset the character on the screen to face NORTH.

C) Now the game is calibrated, and the Lever and Character both face the same direction.  If any time in the game there is any de-calibraion... the game will recalibrate it when the 2nd encoder moves past the sensor.


 Playing the game with a normal spinner is sort of possible... but to pull of tricks, you have to land the skateboard facing the right way or you will crash.  That isnt easy when you can not feel which direction you are facing... which is why the game designers made a stick that points in the direction you are facing.  This way you are well aware of how much you have to turn to land the trick without botching the landing and falling flat on your knees.

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #102 on: January 29, 2011, 01:37:59 pm »
Quote from: Derrick Renaud
For the 100th time. SUBMIT THE CODE!

The latest idea to use the -joy & -mouse options to select between options in the driver code would be refused.

Whom did you consult, or is that just YOUR own OPINION?

Submitting code just to be refused is waste of time, no?

Are you back to actually try to learn something or just rant more.  Everything in your new rant shows that you refuse to read anything.  You actually cut the answers given right out of the quotes you make.

I explained why these options are not to be used.  Also the proof is in the fact the no drivers do this.  It limits the users ability to map inputs the way they desire.

If you actually read anything I wrote, I stated that my own first code submissions would be changed to meet core standards.  I did not rant on like a child about that.  I used it to learn and become a team member.

I will ignore the rest of your trolling and move on to your code.  I will discuss it for the forum members that actually do want to learn from technical discussions.  Feel free to actually learn from the discussion of it.

Code: [Select]
static READ8_HANDLER( leta_r )
{
     static int    last_in, input, rotations, last_angle, angle;
     int aX=    input_port_read(space->machine,  "LETA0") - 127;
     int aY=  - (input_port_read(space->machine,"LETA1") - 127);
     int relative_in = input_port_read(space->machine, "LETA2");
        if(aX!=0 || aY!=0){
             if((angle= atan2(aX, aY) *22.9183)< 0) angle+= 144;
             if(last_angle > 120 && angle < 24) rotations+= 144;
             if(last_angle < 24 && angle > 120) rotations-= 144;
             input =           (last_angle = angle) + rotations;
        }else if(last_in!=relative_in)last_in=input=relative_in;
        return((offset&3)<1)?
                input_port_read(space->machine,"LETA3") : input;
}

First off, you removed the whole checking if the hander is only running from the 720 game.  This will break all other games that use the LETA ports.  Do not remove the "state->pedal_count != 0" check and handling that is in the original code.  You can not overlook the fact that other games use these ports.

Code: [Select]
int aX=    input_port_read(space->machine,  "LETA0") - 127;
int aY=  - (input_port_read(space->machine,"LETA1") - 127);

Interesting changing the -128 to -127.  Unforunately 8-bit integers go from -128 to + 127.  So this would be wrong.

We are tring to change an UINT8 (0-255) to a INT8 (-128 to +127). So if the UINT8 value is 0 it should move to -128.

0 - 127 = -127 (wrong)
0 - 128 = -128 (correct, at min)
255 - 127 = 128 (wrong, overflows to -1)
255 - 128 = 127 (correct, at max)
128 - 127 = 1 (wrong, not center 0)
128 - 128 = 0 (correct, at center)

I imagine your code only seems to work because you must have changed the port default from 0x80 to 0x7f.

FWIW you do not need to do (offset & 3) like the previous code did.  That is done automatically by the core memory call.  I only mention this to explain how it works.  Leaving the code as (offset & 3) would not reflect poorly on the submission.

Code: [Select]
AM_RANGE(0x1810, 0x1813) AM_MIRROR(0x278c) AM_READ(leta_r)

Memory range 0x1810 to 0x1813 can only have an offset value in the 0-3 range.


I won't even bother to check if your changes to the joystick code is correct.  But it does not seem so.  This seems strange but it does not matter to the discussion:

Code: [Select]
if((angle = atan2(aX, aY) *22.9183)< 0)
    angle += 144;

I also will ignore that you asign values in the if statement.  I do not beleive Aaron would let that pass.  It should be like this:

Code: [Select]
angle = atan2(aX, aY) *22.9183);
if (angle < 0)
    angle += 144;


You really need to change the names of the ports.  LETA0 is the centering, LETA1 is the rotate.  And name the fake ports as such.  That would have been the cleanup part of my original walkthrough, that you just ranted about instead.

MAME concerns itself with actually hooking up ports that the original hardware had hooked up.  In my original walk-through I suggested just using the LETA ports to make things easy for the discussion.  The unused LETA ports really should not be used this way.  I would have discussed this after step 1/2 had been completed and we moved on to the cleanup.  I would have explained why the fake joystick port tag should be renamed as such.  And the original unused LETA ports be passed through unchanged.

So your code at this point should be:

Code: [Select]
static READ8_HANDLER( leta_r )
{
    static const char *const letanames[] = { "LETA0", "LETA1", "LETA2", "LETA3" };
    atarisy2_state *state = space->machine->driver_data<atarisy2_state>();

    if (offset <= 1 && state->pedal_count == -1)   /* 720 */
    {
        static int    last_in, input, rotations, last_angle, angle;
        int aX=    input_port_read(space->machine,  "FAKE_X") - 128;
        int aY=  - (input_port_read(space->machine,"FAKE_Y") - 128);
        int relative_in = input_port_read(space->machine, "LETA1");

        if(aX!=0 || aY!=0)
        {
            if((angle = atan2(aX, aY) *22.9183)< 0)
                angle += 144;
            if(last_angle > 120 && angle < 24)
                rotations += 144;
            if(last_angle < 24 && angle > 120)
                rotations -= 144;
            input = (last_angle = angle) + rotations;
        }
        else if (last_in! = relative_in)
            last_in = input = relative_in;
        return (offset != 1) ? input_port_read(space->machine, letanames[offset]) : input;
    }
    return input_port_read(space->machine, letanames[offset]);
}

The rest of the code, unfortunately is a complete hack.  Unfortunately you refused to understand my code which shows how the game truly behaves.  Your only concern in your code seems to be to make the game behave in the way you want it to.  No concern for how it really behaves is shown.

I know you want to completely ignore the center disc and only concern yourself with game play, but that is not what MAME wants.  You modified the joystick code to not return any centering data because "you" do not care about it.  You are free to not care in your own build.

I have told you my spinner code lets you test the game code with simulated centering data that matches the real thing.  You want to ignore that and are free to do so in your own build.  As far as MAME goes, the game constantly polls this data.  A way for us to test this is preferred.  The service mode control test will only constantly pass this test with a real control or my spinner code.  It will go out of sync otherwise.  Again you are free to ignore this in your build.  MAME does not.

So now, congrats you made it to step 2 of my original coding walk-through.  Well even though you did not post the PORT code (step 1,) I can infer what it must be.  You made both the real input and the fake joystick exist at the same time.  Adding the spinner code like I did was not part of the original challenge.  Though I would have moved on to explain it if we ever sanely got past the cleanup part after step 1/2 were done.

That leads us to the final thing I would have got to.  The problem with making the fake/real controls exist at the same time.  It would be nice to see your PORT code to see how you handled this.  I would have suggested at this point an easy to use menu selection so the user does not have to see/understand why there are multiple inputs in the player control menu.  A lot of users already have a hard time with the fact that inc/dec buttons exist at the same time as the analog axis.  Adding more ports mapped together would only add to their confusion.  So IMHO a user selection process if preferred to limit the player controls and analog settings to just the control the player wants to use.

One final thing is that the final submission should follow MAME coding standards.  So each { } in if statements should be on their own line.  I do not say this to be picky.  It is a code policy that you need to be aware of.  See:
http://mamedev.org/devwiki/index.php/MAME_Coding_Conventions

You may feel that having standards is being too picky when your only concern is making one game behave the way you want.  MAME has to concern itself with marinating maintaining thousands of games.  Standards need to be followed.  MAME is an ongoing project.  I'm sure you will find old drivers not up to current standards.  These should not be used as an argument to justify old standards.  MAME's policy when working on old drivers is to try to update them to new standards whenever work is done to them.

First submissions will not be refused for not following standards.  If the code serves a valid need, it will be cleaned up and added.  For future submissions to be continued to be looked at as good quality, the person will be explained the standards.  If they learn from it they will continued to be guided when needed.  Refusing to learn from the process, will reflect negatively.


1.) Do you want to know how to fix flickering animation?

2.) Do you want to know how to solve jittery analog motion?

Submit the code once you are sure it is correct.  Not if it is anything like the code you submitted in your post.  If it is it will be rejected.  No one will bother giving you the in-depth explanation that I have here.  MAME does not have a paid response team to to handle all messages.  If a submission shows promise, someone usually tries to guide the person who submitted the code.  If it is totally wrong like above, it most likely will not be responded to.

(edit) stupid spell checker - marinating?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 10:30:41 am by Derrick Renaud »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2011, 02:14:32 pm »
Some minor changes to the code I posted:

These are optimizations.  "angle" does not need to be defined as static.  Doing so forces it to be in memory when it only needs to be temporary.  Changing it to just an int allows the compiler to be free to use a register instead.

Also no need to get the "relative_in" value from the input_port_read() at the start if it is not needed.  Doing so is slower then the strcmp() that caused you so much grief in my previous code.  A better placement is after it is found that the fake joystick has not moved.

Code: [Select]
static READ8_HANDLER( leta_r )
{
    static const char *const letanames[] = { "LETA0", "LETA1", "LETA2", "LETA3" };
    atarisy2_state *state = space->machine->driver_data<atarisy2_state>();

    if (offset <= 1 && state->pedal_count == -1)   /* 720 */
    {
        static int    last_in, input, rotations, last_angle;
        int angle;
        int aX=    input_port_read(space->machine,  "FAKE_X") - 128;
        int aY=  - (input_port_read(space->machine,"FAKE_Y") - 128);
 
        if(aX!=0 || aY!=0)
        {
            angle = atan2(aX, aY) *22.9183;
            if(angle < 0)
                angle += 144;
            if(last_angle > 120 && angle < 24)
                rotations += 144;
            if(last_angle < 24 && angle > 120)
                rotations -= 144;
            input = (last_angle = angle) + rotations;
        }
        else
        {
            int relative_in = input_port_read(space->machine, "LETA1");

            if (last_in! = relative_in)
                last_in = input = relative_in;
        }
        return (offset != 1) ? input_port_read(space->machine, letanames[offset]) : input;
    }
    return input_port_read(space->machine, letanames[offset]);
}

Or better yet, my original coding walk-through suggested to check the relative port for change.  This way the relative port only has to be read.  If it changes then you do not have to read the 2 fake ports, do some fast math on them and check for 2 changed items.  1 port read versus your current 3.  Which brings us to araraba's answer to his ultimate question.  What variable are you talking about in step 2.  That would be the "last_in" that he created to compare against.

Code: [Select]
static READ8_HANDLER( leta_r )
{
    static const char *const letanames[] = { "LETA0", "LETA1", "LETA2", "LETA3" };
    atarisy2_state *state = space->machine->driver_data<atarisy2_state>();

    if (offset <= 1 && state->pedal_count == -1)   /* 720 */
    {
        static int    last_in, input, rotations, last_angle;
 
        int relative_in = input_port_read(space->machine, "LETA1");

        if (last_in != relative_in)
            last_in = input = relative_in;
        else
        {
            int aX=    input_port_read(space->machine,  "FAKE_X") - 128;
            int aY=  - (input_port_read(space->machine,"FAKE_Y") - 128);

            if(aX!=0 || aY!=0)
            {
                int angle = atan2(aX, aY) *22.9183;
                if(angle < 0)
                    angle += 144;
                if(last_angle > 120 && angle < 24)
                    rotations += 144;
                if(last_angle < 24 && angle > 120)
                    rotations -= 144;
                input = (last_angle = angle) + rotations;
            }
        }
        return (offset != 1) ? input_port_read(space->machine, letanames[offset]) : input;
    }
    return input_port_read(space->machine, letanames[offset]);
}
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 10:14:41 am by Derrick Renaud »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2011, 02:26:02 pm »
Do you know about Xiao-Xiao fighting figures, master Xiaou? You see, they were even accusing me of doing nothing else but re-using that old code from Analog+ days, and we all know authentic controller did work there. I uploaded binary TWO WEEKS ago specifically to test this functionality first, please everyone:

TEST - OBSERVE - COMPARE - DESCRIBE - ASSUME NOT


Anyway, it does work with authentic controller, it works perfectly with everything. Calibration snaps to north only 1st time when the game is started, after that re-calibration is GRADUAL, of course! My code does nothing to authentic input, it simply just forwards it to virtual input pins, as it was discussed already, and even Derrick confirmed that works with authentic controller.


To calibrate analog stick or arcade spinner with a handle (absolute spinner), move AD_ANALOG stick, or "DEC" (HACK_UP) key, or spinner handle towards north and then press digital UP or DOWN, or move Mouse_Y, mapped to DIAL_V until the character sprite faces north too.
After that this input is unnecessary/irrelevant, just like with authentic controller where this second encoder stops working and the game would stay calibrated during the whole day of gameplay, need only be calibrated at the start up, by moving the handle to the east before powering the cabinet on.


Quote
Playing the game with a normal spinner is sort of possible... but to pull of tricks, you have to land the skateboard facing the right way or you will crash.  That isnt easy when you can not feel which direction you are facing... which is why the game designers made a stick that points in the direction you are facing.  This way you are well aware of how much you have to turn to land the trick without botching the landing and falling flat on your knees.

This is irrelevant, we all know about your "Robotron argument" and how authentic controllers are very important aspect of the gameplay, and I of course agree, but anyone can now play _720 Degrees_ whit whatever controller they want/have. So, the point now is to discuss the two implementation, compare differences, establish cons and pros, test for the bugs, test if there is any impact of these changes to other Atari games, and such... By the way, as explained several times by both me and Derrick, you can always try to stick some handle on top of arcade spinner and thus make it "absolute" just like 720 spinner is, you know what I'm talking about?



Derrick, I am purposely giving you obfuscated code, you would not want me to do everything for you now, right? This is not place to discuss source code, let's please stick to what code actually does and how it works. Then, I can help you write it down properly. Bring some of MAME developers here if you want to discuss the code itself, I dare you bring anyone, just ONE person from the team to support what you are saying, I don't think even haze will support you.

Anyway, I already addressed and explained all your objections on MAMEworld, most specifically here in this post:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=244562&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1


*** I suggest non-programmer should do not pay attention to Derrick's confusion as to how sentences in C, just as in English, can be re-written in many different ways, and some of those ways is plain blabbering and gibberish, while the other are pure application of mathematics. In any case it is the MEANING or "what code actually does", that is important, where simpler and smaller is ALWAYS better, that's Occam's razor in general, while in mathematics the same thing is really just a plain "sanity".
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 02:31:46 pm by marcusP »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2011, 02:35:33 pm »
Derrick, I am purposely giving you obfuscated code, you would not want me to do everything for you now, right? This is not place to discuss source code, let's please stick to what code actually does and how it works, compare that. Then, I can help you write it down properly. Bring some of MAME developers here if you want to discuss the code itself, I dare you bring anyone from the team here and support what you are saying, I don't thing even haze will support you, but he has even less clue what is going on there.

?????????????
That is useful.  No place to actually discuss facts.  Wow.  You said it was your working code and now you say it is not.  On MAMEworld you said it was proper to use -127 instead of -128 and I have explained how that is incorrect.  More obfuscation?

This is the guy that some users still believe is capable of actually providing a usefull code submission?

My code works.  Your posted code does not.  Yet you hold all the world's answers.  Again I can only say "Wow."

He is only back to troll.  How useful.

I was sucked in again trying to explain details to other forum users.  Silly rabbit.

 :banghead:
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 02:46:23 pm by Derrick Renaud »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #106 on: January 29, 2011, 02:43:43 pm »
My code works. Your posted code does not.  Yet you hold all the world's answers.  Again I can only say "Wow."

Your code has TWO bugs as I said many times. Do you acknowledge, YES/NO?

I uploaded the binary and everyone can try it, how can you say it does not work??!
My my code does all that what your code does, plus it has those two bugs fixed, Ok?


Enough of your opinions, find those guys you discussed submission with and bring them!!


Again, it was all explained to you, many times in many ways:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=244562&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1


Let the people decide for themselves, stop steering public opinion by your assertive false authority. We both have said quite enough, now both of our code is there for everyone to test and compare. Let the public have as say and make up their own mind, sheesh!!!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 02:52:41 pm by marcusP »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #107 on: January 29, 2011, 03:20:03 pm »
Quote
Do you know about Xiao-Xiao fighting figures, master Xiaou?

 Yes I do, however, I do not understand what this has to do with anything we are discussing..

Quote
Calibration snaps to north only 1st time when the game is started, after that re-calibration is GRADUAL,

 I do not know if this is how the original game worked... but I suspect that calibration is read all the time.  To alter this might make the driver faster, but not accurate to the hardware... which is important in documenting things accurately.

 As for you saying that the game will not get de-cailbrated after the boot-up/start...
Im not so sure about that.   What if the main encoder wheel got an error on it, because one or more of the notches were clogged with dust?   If the calibration isnt always checking... it may eventually get de-calibrated gradually over a period of time.

 Im also not sure why you would make it so that calibration was gradual for any reason.  Its not true to how the game operated... and only would confuse people.

 
Quote
where simpler and smaller is ALWAYS better,

 I agree that in most cases, optimized code will produce better results.
However, I believe that many programmers are trying to make the code easier to read and understand.

 However, as Derrick said, the code structure is not really the main issue.  Its accuracy of the driver representing the real hardware faithfully.

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #108 on: January 29, 2011, 03:33:22 pm »
Banned again...
--- John St.Clair
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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #109 on: January 29, 2011, 04:21:44 pm »
Again, it was all explained to you, many times in many ways:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=244562&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Is anyone interested in why the code he posted at MAMEworld is so wrong?
Quote
Note: Above code requires ports to be set as IPT_POSITIONAL. It's only becasue IPT_AD_STICK can't be properly centered to zero, so it erroneously triggers "if(aX != 0 || aY != 0)", while IPT_POSITIONAL works fine and even seem adequate for handling relative (mouse/spinner) input too.

Code: [Select]
PORT_MODIFY("LETA0")
PORT_BIT( 0xff, 0x00, IPT_POSITIONAL ) PORT_SENSITIVITY(50) PORT_KEYDELTA(10)

PORT_MODIFY("LETA1")
PORT_BIT( 0xff, 0x00, IPT_POSITIONAL_V ) PORT_SENSITIVITY(50) PORT_KEYDELTA(10)

Hint it has to do with the fact that he is determined to use -127 and has no idea what IPT_POSITIONAL is for.

As I've stated in the past, this is not a pissing contest.  If anyone wants to learn, then fine.  But posting incorrect code as proof you are right and then saying it is really not my code because my real code must be kept top secret from the government spies. Booo-ahh-ha-ha (or other maniacal laugh,) please wait while I tighten my tinfoil hat.  That is just insane trolling.

I only went through the discussion of his current code because it helped to illustrate my original quiz on the process needed to add the real port code to 720.  Completing a painful learning exercise.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 11:01:00 am by Derrick Renaud »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #110 on: January 29, 2011, 06:09:02 pm »
Derrick,



NO MORE!!

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #111 on: January 29, 2011, 08:54:36 pm »
Derrick,

I am very interested in the explanations, but I have no desire to post in the thread in between bans. You have a lot more patience with him than I do. Even if it looked like he knew what he was doing, I wouldn't want to discuss this with him or try to work with him.

btw, I am still working on the MAME cab. I am leaving for Best Buy now to buy yet another wireless adapter. The one I bought the other day keeps dropping every couple of minutes, so I can't even get everything updated. If I can't get this controller tested in the cab by tomorrow night, I will pull the Optipac and test it on the laptop. This is getting ridiculous.

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #112 on: January 31, 2011, 06:10:45 pm »
You may have to go back into your settings and disable the joystick inc/dec options.  Any settings you previously made will be changed with the new code.  This also includes any settings you previously made in the analog settings.  Unavoidable due to adding the 2 new options and renaming the joystick ports as FAKE.

I deleted the cfg and sta files for 720, reset the driver to 'joystick', and it seems to work as it did in older builds. Thank you.
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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #113 on: February 05, 2011, 04:12:28 pm »
Gray_Area, you did not test it properly.


Please see if you can confirm the following:

1.) Analog jittery motion and flickering sprites bug.

2.) Does not save the settings, user must navigate new menu to select between the input methods.

3.) Analog input gets de-calibrated just by using the new menu and there is no option to re-calibrate.

4.) It adds 2MB to the .141 binary.

5.) There is a better solution, that does everything, and more, Derrick's 2MB extra bloat does,
only without bugs, faster and simpler: http://www.mediafire.com/file/skcth05nid0txbb/m720c.zip


Yes/No?




Paul Olson,

You have been saying for more than a month now how you GONNA test it, but you never did, or did you?




Xiaou,

Uh, ah... dude! You spent the last decade arguing this same argument I TOOK FROM YOU. Yes, I really, honestly, only wanted to make your wish come true and have it all sorted out, both 720 and gear shifter games. I could not stand seeing them putting you down for more than eight years with the same one old story, parading their bloated egos and spending far more time "explaining" how and why they DO NOT want to do it, the simplest thing in the world. It could have been solved in 15 minutes, yet they opted to play 'rock stars', making people beg of them just so they can refuse and feel important. -- Yes, I was arrogant over the point of being an ass-hole, and you realized at one point why. Indeed, I am clown, but this clown carries a MIRROR, and boy let me tell you, it reflects! In other words, I gave them a taste of their own 'medicine'. All you have to do now is PROPERLY test it, both binaries, and see if you can confirm the above five statements. How about it, master Xiaou?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 04:58:36 pm by fernandez »

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #114 on: February 05, 2011, 05:33:09 pm »
Like a moth to a flame, the troll returns.

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #115 on: February 05, 2011, 10:37:41 pm »
its ok, the bug zapper is working fine.

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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #116 on: February 06, 2011, 12:14:19 am »
Hey uh, dude. Whatever you want to call yourself.

I can't vouch for anyone else here, but I've completely lost interest in your argument, whatever it may be.

It's not because your point is invalid, it's because you're pouring massive amounts of disrespect on Saint and this forum.


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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #117 on: February 06, 2011, 01:20:00 am »
Coming back to this...

There is some weird sprite flickering. Mostly the skater, though some other items, like the speaker stack at the center of the park, will also flicker. According to MAWS, this has been reported.

In olders versions, either P1 start or one of the 'kick' buttons would start the game. Currently, only the kick buttons will.

'Joystick' works for both digital and analog sticks, but seems optimized for digital. The tracking of an analog stick is off.

Curious, I tried 720 in the binary linked above. It was a mess. Spinner tracked very smoothly - until you kicked. Then the skater tried to orient, I guess because it wasn't getting the data from the 'centering disc'. Using a joystick was worse.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 01:27:51 am by Gray_Area »
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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #118 on: February 06, 2011, 12:43:05 pm »
So, basically exactly what Derrick said.
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Re: 720 Real/Joystick/Spinner Test
« Reply #119 on: February 06, 2011, 05:57:41 pm »
So, basically exactly what Derrick said.

and you're surprised?

Every time he posts 'adds 2mb to the binary' people should just point and laugh, it only serves to make him look completely clueless as to how things work and why Derrick's binary might actually be bigger, and as others have now noted, Derrick is right over the other things.

He is now impossible to take seriously, at all, over anything.  he will simply be ignored from this point.

Saint, just keep up the bans.