Interesting conversations with distributors regarding Stern

[Jeff AMN]

We have some pretty friendly distributors around here, and today I had a meeting downtown that ended really early, so I had some time to kill before my next meeting. It didn't make sense to drive back to the office, so I dropped in on three different distributors to check out what they had, give Avatar a try, and just chat it up a bit. The first distributor had a closeout going on the Dale Jr. machines. They were $3000 new. Apparently the game sold like garbage and they had done a big purchase on them. Here's what they said about the other recent games.

Note: Typically this distributor does orders of 9 or 10 on pins.

Avatar - First shipment and a half all were preordered and sold before they had them. Currently on the last machine of the second shipment, but already have orders in for a 3rd and 4th shipment because the one game they have is the floor model and people have elected to wait for boxed ones. The game has been well received on the showroom floor and they've had lots of calls and walk-ins about it. Seems like the license has been a big help for pushing the game.
Iron Man - Was a really hot seller early on. They're down to the last one of about 40 machines, but they've had it for a while now. Like Avatar the first shipment was sold out before the release date. It was really a steady seller until last month when interest tailed off.
Big Buck Hunter - They sold through a couple of shipments, but really weak interest over the past few months.
Spider-Man - Huge seller. They move them out as soon as they get more. People are generally on a wait list for them.
Pirates of the Caribbean - Same as Spider-Man. They try to buy these back from the private market because the resell is pretty high on this one.

I told them I had a Revenge From Mars I may be willing to sell and they told me they'd give me $2,000 trade in credit for it, possibly more based on condition. Apparently that game still gets asked about quite often.

The second distributor I dropped in on told me that they were closing out CSI. You could get a brand new one for $3,000. It sold decently in the first month, been tough to move them after that point. They have people on waiting lists for their second shipment of Avatar, but they said I could still get in on that. Their price was $4,500 on it. Spider-Man also had a "call me when you get one" list going. Other than that the only Stern they were stocking was Iron Man, which supposedly was their best seller since Simpsons Pinball Party's first run.

The third distributor only had a freaking South Park in the showroom but said that he'd be able to get Avatar, Iron Man, Big Buck Hunter, or Spider-Man. I asked if there was a wait for any and he said that he didn't have anything spoken for should he get one in. He's not stocking pins anymore, just doing on demand orders because he got burned with a few games after Simpsons Pinball Party sold so well. I guess he bought a decent order of the next few games, had to close them out because they didn't sell.

Basically it looks like Stern is moving plenty of games through these distributors. There seems to have been a tough time with games like Wheel of Fortune, CSI, 24, T3, and the like, but Spider-Man, Iron Man, and Avatar have done a lot better. All three said that the private market accounted for nearly all their sales, however. I guess themes are pretty important in the private market. The games they raved about most were Simpsons, Pirates, Iron Man, and Avatar. All are strong licenses, even if game quality varies a lot there.

Sorry for the long post, but I figured it was interesting stuff.

[JeepMonkey]

Great info.

Keep us posted with further updates.

[RayB]

From a Pat Lawlor speech back in 2005:

"... even when you just consider home game sales, the majority are not bought by knowledgeable pinball fans but by the general public to put in their games room and again licensing helps with recognition and sales.  The percentage of games going straight into people's homes varies according to the proximity to Christmas when people buy them to enhance their games room before the family and friends come to visit."

http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2004/banquet.html

[PacMon]

Very interesting post.  Thanks.

[RayB]

From a Pat Lawlor speech back in 2005

He's a bitter jackass

http://www.subdural.com/~pbjim/pat/

Those are loooooonng. Care to share what point to jump to?

[Xiaou2]

Yeah.  A lot longer than I expected. But too many things mentioned to break it down now.

 Personally, I didnt get the Bitterness at all.  He was honest and direct.   Some things he was on-point about... and others I felt he was not.  An ego thing?  People rarely like to admit when they make a bad call.

 The main things being that he does not think Pinball can survive on home sales alone...
and that current machines are too complex  "rule-wise"  for the typical walk-up on-location player.

 He mentions that mechanical stuff was good and a huge draw to people... and yet does not acknowledge that replacing those mechanical things with a video screen, was a bad idea (P2k).  Thinks that only "robot builders" can appreciate mechanical things today... which is complete and utter BS.

 He is correct that the home machines have to be different from the Location machines,
but, his assessment that there isnt enough money to do that extra development... IMOP, is off-base.  Its a necessity.  (And in fact, home software add-on packs, and add-on toys/mods could help add additional sales)

 People asked for a headphone jack on the machines, because many times the games cant even be heard in a loud environment.  Said the reason was that people might stick gum in the hole.  Woop-tee-doo.  They could easily stick gum in a coin slot too.  Just a poor excuse overall - which he even admitted.

 

[Xiaou2]

As for the rest of the thread... its BS too.

 What is sold is sold off to zombies who dont have a clue.  And what happens when these Zombies wake up and realize that the $4000 they spend was not even close to worth it?  Do you think they will buy another Pile?

 The sales they are getting are mere survival at best.   And even with good licenses, wont continue to keep popping them out when people realize that the new stuff simply is not that fun.   And or that they find out that machines made +20 yrs ago were made better, played better, looked better, and even sounded better.

 Basically, they have no choice but to step up their game if they want to keep sales up.


 BTW - I visit a VERY Busy Pizza place near my house that has a Spiderman in it.  Its right next to the doorway & cashier/ordering area... and you cant miss it.  Its pretty rare that I Ever see anyone play it, and there are people who are there sitting on the benches right next to it, waiting up to 15 min, who dont even give a care about it.  That tells you how poor the draw of the game is.

 Id bet if it was a simple BK2K, it would be getting played on a more regular and frequent basis.  Better  music, better artwork / awesome backglass,  faster more furious gameplay.  Simple, but very addictive, and highly charged.  It has a Soul, where as SM is boring, slow. and lifeless.

[Jeff AMN]

 

He's serious, folks. He thinks that a BK2k would have more draw with today's kids/teens than Spider-Man. Game quality aside (and I do believe Spider-Man is much better due to it having four shots rather than one), kids would look at that knight and wouldn't give a rip about it. Theme draws the first quarter, quality draws in the second, third, and so on. If you can't get the first, the second isn't ever coming no matter how good or bad the game is.

[RayB]

Ignoring the B2K closing statement, I agree with pretty much everything else Xiau2 said (to my shock). I didn't get the impression Pat was bitter, or a jackass. He was telling it like it is, from an insider's perspective.

[Xiaou2]

Plenty of kids looked at the machine, and passed right by it without any interest.

 Its horribly Generic looking... and not really all that captivating.

 Had they gotten a Real Comic artists to do the artwork for the game... and
actually made a great layout for the game... those kids may have put some
quarters in.  Heck, the soundtrack is also uninspired garbage compared to Bk2k.


 The Black Knight is a symbolic thing.  Its instant 'Halloween' like appeal.
Its dark, powerful, and pure awesome.  Far more inspiring than Spiderman.

 And if you knew anything about kids today... you would know they like things of a dark nature.  Goth, steam punk, halloweenish stuff.  But then again, who doesnt? Its a timeless thing.

[RayB]

I don't think it would make a difference. Pat said in the talk that Jim linked to that the coin-operated industry was in decline across the board, not just pinball. That was what, three years ago? I think there's just so much high tech entertainment available in-home or even on a cell phone that kids don't give a crap. They are extremely influenced by whatever is "in" and highly marketed. I was visiting family and when my step-sister's 9 year old niece saw I had an iphone 4 her eyes lit up and she begged me to see it.   ... She's NINE. Why does she care about a CEL PHONE? 

[Pinball Wizard]

And if you knew anything about kids today... you would know they like things of a dark nature.  Goth, steam punk, halloweenish stuff.  But then again, who doesnt? Its a timeless thing.

Going to put this out there: I'm in public high school right now and "goth, steam punk, halloweenish stuff" represents about 3% of the school. The rest is pulled in by rap music and good action movies. Not trying to sound shallow about it but that pretty much sums up teens. Personally I love the BK2K music but most kids in high school would rather hear that good rap song. Family Guy i think is the most talked about theme of any possible/manufactured theme out there and Stern short-changed on the machines. I'll get people who haven't ever played a pinball and get them hooked with that machine because it is a theme they love! Spiderman is too old of a theme in a high school type pull, but it is a lot better than a BK2K for the sheer fact that teens recognize Spider-Man, but can't connect to BK2K.

[studmuff]

The problem isn't that it's Spiderman, BK2k or an other pin.  The problem is it's not a Wii, XBox or PS3.  If you hooked a coin mech up to one of those you would have a gold mine.  People don't relate to pins like they did 10-20 years ago.  It reminded me of Back to the Future 2 when Marty went into the future, the kids got an arcade going and he was showing them how to use it.  The kids saw him with the gun and said "That's a babies toy"  You have to use your hands".  People my age see a pinball and they remember arcades.  If it was a redemption game, the kids probably would have played it to get tickets for some crappy toys.  It's called "instant gratification" and unfortunately your not going to get it with a pin these days like times passed.  Wake up at smell the pizza. 

Plenty of kids looked at the machine, and passed right by it without any interest.

 Its horribly Generic looking... and not really all that captivating.

 Had they gotten a Real Comic artists to do the artwork for the game... and
actually made a great layout for the game... those kids may have put some
quarters in.  Heck, the soundtrack is also uninspired garbage compared to Bk2k.


 The Black Knight is a symbolic thing.  Its instant 'Halloween' like appeal.
Its dark, powerful, and pure awesome.  Far more inspiring than Spiderman.

 And if you knew anything about kids today... you would know they like things of a dark nature.  Goth, steam punk, halloweenish stuff.  But then again, who doesnt? Its a timeless thing.

[Pinball Wizard]

I'm going to have to agree to you on that to some extent. Pinball is looked at as that old antique thing that old people play by my generation. Pinball hasn't evolved to that HD 50" screen that 8 are linked to (granted I know pinball is real, making HD a null point but I'm trying to make another point). It's an uphill battle to get my friends to play any pinball or say a Robotron or any other classic, but they jump at the idea of say Crisis Zone 4, or Need For Speed. We easily take on the entire row of 8 Need For Speeds just so we can compete because it's big, obnoxious and overall flashy. If we put a bunch of flashy lights on a pinball and make it take up the space of 4 games it'll pull in teens.

[Jeff AMN]

30 Rock poked fun at pinball last week. There was a VERY nerdy guy on there and Liz Lemon was cheering him up and said "how many people can say that they own a real pinball machine?"

Oh man, now even the mainstream is making fun of us. What does it say about those of us that are double digit collectors?

[smartbomb2084]

It says that us 'double digit collectors' could care less about what the mainstram thinks. We love the game for our own reasons.

It's kind of like the yahoos that put these lawnmower sounding mufflers on some tuner car.  Who says that is cool?
And why do others think that 6 foot rims on the SUV is the way to go?  If that is mainstream sonny, than feel free to laugh at me all you want... providing you can put down that cell phone long enough to do it.

[Xiaou2]

 Guitar Hero / Rock Band series in one of the highest selling/popular game series,
and there is little to no Rap music in it.

 As for the HD screen & other comments... they simply dont make sense.

 People play linked racing games, because its a cooperative venture.  You get to challenge and smash your friends around.  Its a completely different thing.  And when you are alone... do you opt to play a shallow as hell racer?  Personally Id rather play Ridge Racer than any of the new racing games that come out in the arcades.  Daytona USA would be even better actually.

[jennifer]

       VP, HD, linked screens that is the point, It"s new, It"s awesome, and It"s cool. [Remember cool?] smoking, keg beer, and Oh yes, the boys!!!!
 Today I"m a triple diget collector, still love the games, still waiting for the next release, still waiting for the Stern "glory days"
       Or have they jumped the shark?