Switchres: modeline generator engine

[bitbytebit]

Ok, if I have time proves it, but it is difficult because the arcade where I have no internet.

I've seen that you have not changed the value of the joystick_dead_zone in mame source code, it would be interesting to see if it makes everything
work well.

Code: [Select]

{ "joystick_deadzone;joy_deadzone;jdz",      "0.3",  0,          "center deadzone range for joystick where change is ignored (0.0 center, 1.0 end)" },
Since the version you changed the value of the joystick? is to see whether related or not that change, since the problem was from the version 1.151.


At the end you could not include Openppjoy, no?

Thank.

It should be the same as setting it in mame.ini, either way in the source or in the config it won't be different.  What is the best option that works there, setting it in mame.ini?

Yeah I need to do that still, haven't gotten around to it but I'll look at it.  Right now am focusing the time I have on this installation setup, figure adding extra stuff will come later when we get the install fully nailed down and work up from there. 

I'm building/and uploading ISO's in the next day, so the basic installation fixes and they will have fixes for the ATI 9200/9250 cards that aren't AVGA based.  I need to look at a way to make an upgrade/update path when installing a new version over an old version, but after that if nothing else comes up may be able to start looking at the different joystick type options to add. 

Thanks

[MonkeyJug]

My drivers at the moment are optimized for the H9110 monitor, so most resolutions will be just ok for yours, but a few of them could not match the ones GroovyMame expects to find when the D9800 is selected in Mame.ini. Vertical games like twincobr or donpachi my suffer from that. You could try those games by using the -monitor H9110 option from command line, to see if it works like that. I'm planning to extend my drivers eventually to do all monitor modelines to perfectly match the ones GroovyMame expects, it's only that you are one of the first ones trying this in Windows, I highly appreciate your feedback.

quick update:

i've now got donpachi syncing without having to adjust the h-hold, but part of the screen is missing at the top and bottom, probably about an inch and a half both ends...

when i tried it with the h9110 switch, it fitted the screen perfectly!

i'm loving this!  may eventually be able to lock down the control panel and never have to touch the h/v knobs again!

[bitbytebit]

Groovy Arcade Linux fixes for the ATI Radeon 9200/9250 cards in 15khz modes, with lower dotclocks.  Also some other good fixes, turns out the vbios in these cards needed one setting changed to make those lower dotclocks work correctly...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=107620.msg1172781#msg1172781

[MonkeyJug]

hi bitbytebit, can you explain how to perform the quote below, and will it work on a 4350 card or is it radeon only?

"Windows SwitchRes compile will dynamically create modelines for Radeon
  cards.  You need Soft15khz by SailorSat and create a list of "dummy modelines" with
  the usermodes option, up to 60 (more than 16 needed to reload dynamically)."

Other questions:

Is 60 the limit due to Hyperspin no longer launching?

Regards...

[Calamity]

hi bitbytebit, can you explain how to perform the quote below, and will it work on a 4350 card or is it radeon only?

"Windows SwitchRes compile will dynamically create modelines for Radeon
  cards.  You need Soft15khz by SailorSat and create a list of "dummy modelines" with
  the usermodes option, up to 60 (more than 16 needed to reload dynamically)."

Other questions:

Is 60 the limit due to Hyperspin no longer launching?

Regards...

Well, actually that quote is a bit old now, better use the soft supplied with my hacked drivers if using GroovyMame. 60 is the limit of normal Catalyst. Hyperspin will launch with around 100 video modes defined, I've seen it launching with 160, others need a lower figure, it's actually a bug it seems and it depends on the system. If you're using my hacked drivers, better edit your VMMaker.ini file in the download folder and look for the "TotalModes" value and modify it to a lower value (make sure to also disable the option "GenerateInis" as you don't want to do that if using GroovyMame), then run VMMaker, restart your system. This way you'll still have a GroovyMame compatible mode list but somewhat shorter, to allow Hyperspin to work.

[MonkeyJug]

great stuff, i'll give this a bash later...

also, i have been unable to get hiscore support to work with groovymame.  i can see it is enabled in the .ini, but it just will not work for me.

i've even compiled a fresh mame and it works perfectly, then when i switch back to groovymame, it no longer works.  i'm stumped!

sorry to go off topic...

[MonkeyJug]

Well, actually that quote is a bit old now, better use the soft supplied with my hacked drivers if using GroovyMame. 60 is the limit of normal Catalyst. Hyperspin will launch with around 100 video modes defined, I've seen it launching with 160, others need a lower figure, it's actually a bug it seems and it depends on the system. If you're using my hacked drivers, better edit your VMMaker.ini file in the download folder and look for the "TotalModes" value and modify it to a lower value (make sure to also disable the option "GenerateInis" as you don't want to do that if using GroovyMame), then run VMMaker, restart your system. This way you'll still have a GroovyMame compatible mode list but somewhat shorter, to allow Hyperspin to work.

i had to reduce it to 80 to get it to launch hyperspin, but it's all really starting to take shape.  hopefully i'll be able to close the lid soon and start to enjoy my cabinet!

i noticed in the wmmaker.ini file, the hyperspin tolerance levels were much higher for the 6.5 driver.  what benefits, if any, are there of using the 9.3 driver over that one?

also, one final question:

1. i scrolled through the list of games in hyperspin quickly, launching about 50 games.  i'm very happy with the way they are all displayed and how they look, EXCEPT vertical shooters, like donpachi and stikers 1945 won't sync (same issue as before), but this time, as i'm not using command line, i can't think of a way to get them to run inside hyperspin...

can i adjust the vmmaker.ini to make modelines for these types of games?  i am a vertical shooter fan, and these will be my main focus of attention once up and running...

[Calamity]

Hopefully soon I'll have VMMaker ready for multisync monitors, I'm seeing it's a must have.

Vertical shooters are my favourite games too. It's possible to do what you want for vertical shooters now, although a bit complicated, as you'll need to manually add the needed modeline. You can get it by running the game with the Linux live-cd, launching it from the command line with -v -v -v -v params and copying it (you might do that also in Windows but I'm not sure it will prompt the right one for not being installed in the system). Then add that line to the modelines.txt file produced by VMMaker, and run Soft-15khz using this modelines.txt file as the custom resolution file, that will install the old modelines plus the new one. I see that it would be a nice option to have VMMaker allow for raw modelines by now.

Unfortunately version 6.5 won't support your 4350 card, it's for older cards only. I'd wait until Hyperspin is fixed, you can use some simple frontend AdvMenu by now, 80 is just too low to get a good experience imho.

[bitbytebit]

great stuff, i'll give this a bash later...

also, i have been unable to get hiscore support to work with groovymame.  i can see it is enabled in the .ini, but it just will not work for me.

i've even compiled a fresh mame and it works perfectly, then when i switch back to groovymame, it no longer works.  i'm stumped!

sorry to go off topic...

You'll need the hiscore.dat file in the hi directory, it doesn't set in the local current working directory for groovymame.  I put it there so it's in a fixed location, makes it work in both Linux and Windows the same that way and I like the hiscore.dat file being in the same place as the hi scores.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

This project really needs its own subforum.

I havnt found any documentation on that svga monitor i mentioned earlier, but so far trying to run games at 649x480 and stretching has been less than ideal.

Would it be reasonable to generate modelines from SailorSat's 15khz list and double the HxV so long as it doesn't go over 600 lines?

[bitbytebit]

This project really needs its own subforum.

I havnt found any documentation on that svga monitor i mentioned earlier, but so far trying to run games at 649x480 and stretching has been less than ideal.

Would it be reasonable to generate modelines from SailorSat's 15khz list and double the HxV so long as it doesn't go over 600 lines?

I've added a monitor type for this monitor, m2929, next version build 011c will have it.  I'm not sure the values are right for the front porch and stuff, but I just used the ones in that range from the d9800.  This at least should show basically what the monitor can do, and if any results are better.  It'll try to use doublescan if possible and it has too for those resolutions.

Basically calculating with switchres using the -mrange 30000.00-40000.00,47.00-90.00,0.636,3.813,1.906,0.020,0.106,0.607,0,0,576.0,768 argument is what I did, but it's built in now to groovymame (haven't got it so it can take dynamic ranges like switchres can, yet).

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Cool.

I'm surprised I haven't found more information on this monitor yet since it's the one that XArcade is selling on their site. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

One thing I was trying to ask in the previous post, which wasn't very clear, was that I'm asking about the available resolutions on the computer... for groovymame/switchres to select from to modify. At the moment I've only got 640x480, 720x576, 848x480, and 800x600.

What I'm asking about is taking the modes like:

Code: [Select]

240 x 240
256 x 240
256 x 256
256 x 264
304 x 240
321 x 240
321 x 256
336 x 240
352 x 256
352 x 264
352 x 288
368 x 240
384 x 288
392 x 240
401 x 256
448 x 240

and doubling them to

Code: [Select]

480 x 480
512 x 480
512 x 512
512 x 528
608 x 480
642 x 480
642 x 512
672 x 480
704 x 512
704 x 528
704 x 576
736 x 480
768 x 576
784 x 480
802 x 512
896 x 480

Is there any reason that wouldn't work?

[Calamity]

Is there any reason that wouldn't work?

Actually that should work, the only problem by now is that you'll have to do that manually as our tools don't support that yet.

I think it's a good idea to have that, as unfortunately Windows Catalyst drivers have a problem with doublescan in custom modes that makes it unusable. What I mean is that usually, for a svga monitor, the ortodox workaround would be to enable doublescan for those modes, so scaling wouldn't be needed.

So, for 240x240 you would enable 240x240 doublescanned, that uses the same framebuffer, but it's the videocard the one responsible for doubling each line producing a 31Khz mode.

But having our doublescan broken, your approach can be the right way to go, as it will benefit from Mame's automatic scaling for resolutions that are integer multiples of the target one.

In order to have that ready and automatic, I'll need to implement some new options in VMMaker, and probably at the same time GroovyMame will need to be tweaked to search for those double resolutions when required.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I was just trying to use Soft15kHz to insert the following modelines:

Code: [Select]

Modeline "352x256@60d" 14.31 352 384 408 440 256 261 264 269 doublescan
Modeline "256x240@60d" 10.31 256 288 304 336 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "240x240@60d" 9.79 240 272 288 320 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "256x256@60d" 11.00 256 288 304 336 256 261 264 269 doublescan
Modeline "256x264@61d" 11.40 256 288 304 336 264 269 272 278 doublescan
Modeline "304x240@61d" 11.86 304 336 352 384 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "320x240@61d" 12.37 320 352 368 400 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "320x256@60d" 13.21 320 352 376 408 256 261 264 269 doublescan
Modeline "336x240@60d" 12.89 336 368 392 424 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "352x256@60d" 14.31 352 384 408 440 256 261 264 269 doublescan
Modeline "352x264@60d" 14.82 352 384 408 440 264 269 272 278 doublescan
Modeline "352x288@60d" 16.25 352 384 408 440 288 294 297 303 doublescan
Modeline "368x240@60d" 13.92 368 400 424 456 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "384x288@60d" 17.50 384 416 448 480 288 294 297 303 doublescan
Modeline "368x240@60d" 13.92 368 400 424 456 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "384x288@60d" 17.50 384 416 448 480 288 294 297 303 doublescan
Modeline "392x240@60d" 14.69 392 424 448 480 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "400x256@60d" 15.96 400 432 456 488 256 261 264 269 doublescan
Modeline "416x312@60d" 20.42 416 448 480 512 312 318 321 328 doublescan
Modeline "448x240@60d" 16.50 448 480 504 536 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "512x240@60d" 18.56 512 544 576 608 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "512x288@60d" 22.50 512 544 584 616 288 294 297 303 doublescan
Modeline "632x264@60d" 24.79 632 664 704 736 264 269 272 278 doublescan
Modeline "640x240@60d" 22.68 640 672 712 744 240 245 248 253 doublescan
Modeline "640x288@60d" 27.50 640 672 720 752 288 294 297 303 doublescan
Modeline "512x488@60" 20.08 512 544 616 648 488 498 503 513
Modeline "512x512@60" 21.19 512 544 624 656 512 522 527 538
Modeline "640x480@60" 24.11 640 672 760 792 480 490 495 505
Modeline "720x480@60" 26.85 720 752 848 880 480 490 495 505
Modeline "800x600@60" 38.21 800 832 976 1008 600 612 618 631
Didn't seem to work. I guess I'll go with my original idea of doubling the dimensions and trying that.

Edit: Added -hsync -vsync to the end of the lines and now windows locks on bootup. Restarted in safe mode, used the registry backups, and windows still crashes on boot. Whoops.
Guess it's time to reinstall the drivers.

[ves]

Hello, report the new version 1.536.

Installation with automatic partitioning, make the partitions, boot root and swap, not create home gives no errors on startup pc.

Installation with the partitions created, Razia home swap roms and it works well, but not in the installation asks for the partition of home.
Then it can indicate the option of saving state, but not included in the fstab.

Once installed you can not change the roms and home partitions, not loaded on the fstab.

I think you should return to the previous state of partitions, as it was much lighter and works better, you could create a new paragraph to make an automatic partitioning for a simple installation, we note that with this facility shall formatting when you want to install a new version .

With respect to the static network configuration does not configure the network mask, you could force to include / 24.

Wminput Cwiid fails axasi duplicate what I have now no hand where the error was after I tell you.

Cwiid wminput continues with the same problem, move the character, the error does suck to automatically configure the joystick, one solution I could find is remap the arrow keys.

Since you have included live version of mame u3? or changes have you made ​​to the live version from 1500?

Other colleagues have already tried the ati 9250 and it works fine, I've tried the avga 9250 time without problems, then try to prove the ati 7000.

I hope these comments help you, if it were so or not see it necessary to tell me.


Thank

[bitbytebit]

Hello, report the new version 1.536.

Installation with automatic partitioning, make the partitions, boot root and swap, not create home gives no errors on startup pc.

Installation with the partitions created, Razia home swap roms and it works well, but not in the installation asks for the partition of home.
Then it can indicate the option of saving state, but not included in the fstab.

Once installed you can not change the roms and home partitions, not loaded on the fstab.

I think you should return to the previous state of partitions, as it was much lighter and works better, you could create a new paragraph to make an automatic partitioning for a simple installation, we note that with this facility shall formatting when you want to install a new version .

With respect to the static network configuration does not configure the network mask, you could force to include / 24.

Wminput Cwiid fails axasi duplicate what I have now no hand where the error was after I tell you.

Cwiid wminput continues with the same problem, move the character, the error does suck to automatically configure the joystick, one solution I could find is remap the arrow keys.

Since you have included live version of mame u3? or changes have you made ​​to the live version from 1500?

Other colleagues have already tried the ati 9250 and it works fine, I've tried the avga 9250 time without problems, then try to prove the ati 7000.

I hope these comments help you, if it were so or not see it necessary to tell me.


Thank

I might need to recompile the cwiid stuff with the newer kernel, guessing that could be an issue when updating the kernel.

The home partition and roms partition setup are something that I'll look at when figuring out how to make upgrading smoother.  Right now I like the /boot and / partition setup.  I'll look at the manual partition setup, since it should be smoother than it sounds.  I basically see the /home/arcade and /home/roms directories as when setup should allow upgrading by not touching those on an upgrade.  So I'll add a method where probably a person can just say upgrade at the main menu and it'll reinstall everything and save those 2 partitions.  The old method required people to know too much about partitioning, but the new method does need to have a way to setup the structure of fstab and partitions for installation which were made in cfdisk if not doing automatic partitioning.  Right now it should, if no automatic partitioning is chosen, just use a / drive and do it the old way.  Although I see that the swap might not happen, and some other issues.  So definitely the automatic partitioning has set back the manual partitioning somewhat, although I like the automatic partitioning because otherwise it starts getting really tricky to know how to upgrade and what exactly the partition layout is.  It's easier to just know that a drive is completely dedicated and how that drive is divided up.  It is lacking the /home/arcade partition support without manually doing it though, well it should work in theory but might not yet, and that is a key for upgrading capabilities. 

I'll look at the network setup for a static IP, I probably forgot to ask about the network subnet. 

The newer mame build, just has changes to the patch for the same 141u3 version to automatically detect the video card output connector name, so it's no longer needed in mame.ini. 

I'm curious about other ATI cards now, definitely will be interesting, some might just never work if they don't now, like more older odd exotic ones, but it all depends on feedback/logs bug reports on them and luck with the Linux Kernel ATI guy Alex and if he can see what is going on with them himself.  Hopefully more work now though, because the changes that fix the 9200 cards might just also fix those other older ATI cards too.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Went ahead and generated a 2X table of SailorSat's 15kHz table:

Code: [Select]

Modeline "704x512@60" 28.26 704 736 840 872 512 522 527 538
Modeline "512x480@60" 19.72 512 544 616 648 480 490 495 505
Modeline "480x480@60" 18.63 480 512 576 608 480 490 495 505
Modeline "512x512@60" 21.19 512 544 624 656 512 522 527 538
Modeline "512x528@60" 21.96 512 544 624 656 528 538 544 555
Modeline "608x480@60" 23.01 608 640 720 752 480 490 495 505
Modeline "640x480@60" 24.11 640 672 760 792 480 490 495 505
Modeline "640x512@60" 25.90 640 672 768 800 512 522 527 538
Modeline "672x480@60" 25.20 672 704 792 824 480 490 495 505
Modeline "704x512@60" 28.26 704 736 840 872 512 522 527 538
Modeline "704x528@60" 29.28 704 736 840 872 528 538 544 555
Modeline "704x576@60" 32.34 704 736 856 888 576 587 593 605
Modeline "736x480@60" 27.39 736 768 872 904 480 490 495 505
Modeline "768x576@60" 35.03 768 800 928 960 576 587 593 605
Modeline "784x480@60" 29.04 784 816 920 952 480 490 495 505
Modeline "768x576@60" 35.03 768 800 928 960 576 587 593 605
Modeline "736x480@60" 27.39 736 768 872 904 480 490 495 505
Modeline "800x512@60" 31.79 800 832 952 984 512 522 527 538
Modeline "832x624@60" 41.47 832 864 1016 1048 624 637 643 656
Modeline "896x480@60" 32.87 896 928 1048 1080 480 490 495 505
Modeline "1024x480@60" 37.26 1024 1056 1192 1224 480 490 495 505
Modeline "1024x576@60" 45.81 1024 1056 1224 1256 576 587 593 605
Modeline "1264x528@60" 50.63 1264 1296 1488 1520 528 539 544 555
Modeline "1280x480@60" 46.02 1280 1312 1480 1512 480 490 495 505
Modeline "1280x576@60" 56.59 1280 1312 1520 1552 576 587 593 605
This uses the methods over at http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl, using it's default values of Horizontal Sync Time of 3.8 microseconds and VST of 150 microseconds.

I'll dump these into usermodes.txt after I reinstall the video drivers. Sure is easier to fix that when you can boot into safemode and see something

[Calamity]

I'll dump these into usermodes.txt after I reinstall the video drivers. Sure is easier to fix that when you can boot into safemode and see something

Your Catalyst registry must have got messed at some point when adding modes. It could also have happened that you're added more than 128 modes, that can make the drivers crash at startup. It is possible to repair it without reinstalling the driver, by manually editing the registry and deleting all instances of these keys: DALNonStandardModes, DALDTMCRTBCD and probably DALR6 CRT. I see it will help to eventually have an option to do this automatically in case of emergency. Hopefully soon I'll have my program modified to help you guys add modelines more easily... it actually does right now but only for standard arcade monitors, it seems most people here own really fancy crts

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I'll dump these into usermodes.txt after I reinstall the video drivers. Sure is easier to fix that when you can boot into safemode and see something

Your Catalyst registry must have got messed at some point when adding modes. It could also have happened that you're added more than 128 modes, that can make the drivers crash at startup. It is possible to repair it without reinstalling the driver, by manually editing the registry and deleting all instances of these keys: DALNonStandardModes, DALDTMCRTBCD and probably DALR6 CRT. I see it will help to eventually have an option to do this automatically in case of emergency. Hopefully soon I'll have my program modified to help you guys add modelines more easily... it actually does right now but only for standard arcade monitors, it seems most people here own really fancy crts

I'm sure they did. But I only added the above listed modes, around 25 or so. Personally uninstalling/reinstalling the video driver sounds much simpler than editing the registry that much... Doing the drivers will take at most a few clicks.

[ves]

Hello bitbytebit, the error in CWID wminput axi duplicate, deleting these lines is resolved.

mamebuttons

Code: [Select]

Classic.LStick.X = ABS_X
Classic.LStick.Y = ~ABS_Y

I confirm that ATI 7000 works well, tested with dragon ball 1 and 2, donkey kong, pacman, 1942, Golden Axe 2, 1000 migl, 1942, toki, esprade etc. ..

I need to try several graphs that have left more ati x1300 fx5000.


You could try the games ghost chasel, it has a resolution problems or strange, if it's not mame or the resolution.



Thanks.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I probably need to branch this to a new thread, but I'll still ask--

With the doubled modelines I posted above, Soft15kHz was able to add them no problem and the monitor seems to display them just fine EXCEPT for the right most edge of the screen. On almost every mode the first several dozen pixels of a line are 'curled' back onto themselves, even on modes that should be no issue like 640x480. Previously with the default values that resolution displayed just fine.

Is this a modeline issue or a monitor issue?


Edit: It must be a modeline issue; I installed Calamity's driver and ran VMMaker, and it's modes do not exhibit the issue.

[Calamity]

With the doubled modelines I posted above, Soft15kHz was able to add them no problem and the monitor seems to display them just fine EXCEPT for the right most edge of the screen. On almost every mode the first several dozen pixels of a line are 'curled' back onto themselves, even on modes that should be no issue like 640x480. Previously with the default values that resolution displayed just fine.

That usually happens when the front porch is too short, the right side of the picture folds back as the beam returns to the origin, I'd try using more generous porches.

[MonkeyJug]

Hopefully soon I'll have VMMaker ready for multisync monitors, I'm seeing it's a must have.

Vertical shooters are my favourite games too. It's possible to do what you want for vertical shooters now, although a bit complicated, as you'll need to manually add the needed modeline. You can get it by running the game with the Linux live-cd, launching it from the command line with -v -v -v -v params and copying it (you might do that also in Windows but I'm not sure it will prompt the right one for not being installed in the system). Then add that line to the modelines.txt file produced by VMMaker, and run Soft-15khz using this modelines.txt file as the custom resolution file, that will install the old modelines plus the new one. I see that it would be a nice option to have VMMaker allow for raw modelines by now.

Unfortunately version 6.5 won't support your 4350 card, it's for older cards only. I'd wait until Hyperspin is fixed, you can use some simple frontend AdvMenu by now, 80 is just too low to get a good experience imho.

it was too complicated unfortunately... my linux experience is limited to installing ubuntu a couple of times to see what the fuss was about.

i did manage to get the live cd installed onto a separate hard drive to try and mess about with it, but struggled to find a way to change the rompath once it was installed.  i was able to run the few roms that come bundled, and they all seemed to play fine.  i know there was an option during the install to point to the rom folder, but the warning about the possibility of deleting data spooked me a bit.

just out of interest, before i browse through the soft15khz thread again, do you know is there a maximum number of modelines it will accept?

one other point while i'm going to be tinkering - my chassis is a wei-ya 3129db.  i think it's pretty common, and i was wondering what values, if any, you would recommend changing in the vmmaker.ini file.  the sticker on the chasis states:

H-Freq: 15/24/31khz
V-Freq: 47-70hz

i googled your monitor, and see that you have set the vertical frequencies slightly inside what the limits are for that monitor, so i was wondering if you'd advise against me setting those values to 47-70 in the .ini file...

regards

[MonkeyJug]

Hopefully soon I'll have VMMaker ready for multisync monitors, I'm seeing it's a must have.

Vertical shooters are my favourite games too. It's possible to do what you want for vertical shooters now, although a bit complicated, as you'll need to manually add the needed modeline. You can get it by running the game with the Linux live-cd, launching it from the command line with -v -v -v -v params and copying it (you might do that also in Windows but I'm not sure it will prompt the right one for not being installed in the system). Then add that line to the modelines.txt file produced by VMMaker, and run Soft-15khz using this modelines.txt file as the custom resolution file, that will install the old modelines plus the new one. I see that it would be a nice option to have VMMaker allow for raw modelines by now.

Unfortunately version 6.5 won't support your 4350 card, it's for older cards only. I'd wait until Hyperspin is fixed, you can use some simple frontend AdvMenu by now, 80 is just too low to get a good experience imho.

it was too complicated unfortunately... my linux experience is limited to installing ubuntu a couple of times to see what the fuss was about.

i did manage to get the live cd installed onto a separate hard drive to try and mess about with it, but struggled to find a way to change the rompath once it was installed.  i was able to run the few roms that come bundled, and they all seemed to play fine.  i know there was an option during the install to point to the rom folder, but the warning about the possibility of deleting data spooked me a bit.  i have a batch of sample roms, including a few vertical shooters on a usb drive, but i don't know how to get the linux install to point to it...

just out of interest, before i browse through the soft15khz thread again, do you know is there a maximum number of modelines it will accept?

one other point while i'm going to be tinkering - my chassis is a wei-ya 3129db.  i think it's pretty common, and i was wondering what values, if any, you would recommend changing in the vmmaker.ini file.  the sticker on the chasis states:

H-Freq: 15/24/31khz
V-Freq: 47-70hz

i googled your monitor, and see that you have set the vertical frequencies slightly inside what the limits are for that monitor, so i was wondering if you'd advise against me setting those values to 47-70 in the .ini file...

regards

[Calamity]

just out of interest, before i browse through the soft15khz thread again, do you know is there a maximum number of modelines it will accept?

The limit is set by the driver, not by the program that stores the modelines in the driver's registry (Soft-15Khz, VMmaker, Winmodelines, etc.). However, regular Catalyst only accept up to 60 modes.

one other point while i'm going to be tinkering - my chassis is a wei-ya 3129db.  i think it's pretty common, and i was wondering what values, if any, you would recommend changing in the vmmaker.ini file.  the sticker on the chasis states:

H-Freq: 15/24/31khz
V-Freq: 47-70hz

i googled your monitor, and see that you have set the vertical frequencies slightly inside what the limits are for that monitor, so i was wondering if you'd advise against me setting those values to 47-70 in the .ini file...

regards

You won't be able to produce modelines for a multisync model using VMMaker by now. It only works with a single hfreq range, so all the modelines you're seeing possibly belong to the lower range. I need to move the multisync stuff bitbytebit has done for Switchres into VMMaker, so it can catch up GroovyMame. You could try to calculate each range separately and then use the output with Soft-15Khz, but it's going to be complicated and painful if you haven't done that before. You can also use Switchres to produce those modelines I'm thinking, maybe it's the best option actually, as it can calculate the same modelines GroovyMame uses and prompts them. Another typical way to install those modelines manually is by using Winmodelines.

The problem with all this manual stuff (that has always been there, it's nothing new) is that you won't probably do a rational use of your mode table limited space, which is the main aim of VMMaker.

Hopefully in a week or two I can have something useful already, at the moment I'm collapsed with work and thinking of possibly throwing my phone by the window. All the required stuff to have fully automatic support for GroovyMame and multisync monitors in Windows is in my head already, also working on a graphic user interface for VMMaker that will simplify the process a lot and make it more accesible and easy to understand how each program is tied with the other, I admit that now it's a mess, just need a little time.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

With the doubled modelines I posted above, Soft15kHz was able to add them no problem and the monitor seems to display them just fine EXCEPT for the right most edge of the screen. On almost every mode the first several dozen pixels of a line are 'curled' back onto themselves, even on modes that should be no issue like 640x480. Previously with the default values that resolution displayed just fine.

That usually happens when the front porch is too short, the right side of the picture folds back as the beam returns to the origin, I'd try using more generous porches.

I used your VMMaker with the values from my monitor (30-40 hfreq, 40-90 vfreq), set a minimum resolution of 480x480 and let it run. Came up with around 25 or so resolutions, and added them to the registry. The lines generated by your program did not have the curl over. I didn't know appropriate frontporch numbers for the generator I used, so I used the default.

However when I rebooted there were still several entries in the QuickRes list that were unwanted (either too low like 320x240, or too high like 1280x1024). Any idea on how to remove those?

[Calamity]

I used your VMMaker with the values from my monitor (30-40 hfreq, 40-90 vfreq), set a minimum resolution of 480x480 and let it run. Came up with around 25 or so resolutions, and added them to the registry. The lines generated by your program did not have the curl over. I didn't know appropriate frontporch numbers for the generator I used, so I used the default.

The ReslList.txt file is used as a manual resolution source (vs or + Mame.xml), so edit that file if you want to add any desired modeline to be generated. Default porch values should be safe enough for most arcade monitors and tv sets. It's the hfreq/vfreq range where the important decisions are based on, as well as the ActiveLinesLimit/VirtualLinesLimit pair.

However when I rebooted there were still several entries in the QuickRes list that were unwanted (either too low like 320x240, or too high like 1280x1024). Any idea on how to remove those?

You don't need to remove those resolutions actually, they're default native vesa modes the driver creates, and can be handy to have them there just in case you need to plug an LCD to fix things. I'd use Arcade_OSD instead of Quickres, it will show you which of these modes are actually custom modes created by VMMaker and which are native modes. GroovyMame with the modeline option will only pick modes from the custom created ones so they won't get mixed.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

The ReslList.txt file is used as a manual resolution source (vs or + Mame.xml), so edit that file if you want to add any desired modeline to be generated. Default porch values should be safe enough for most arcade monitors and tv sets. It's the hfreq/vfreq range where the important decisions are based on, as well as the ActiveLinesLimit/VirtualLinesLimit pair.

What should I base the active/virtual limits on? I set 600/600 since that's the maximum lines the default specs for the monitor list (800x600).

You don't need to remove those resolutions actually, they're default native vesa modes the driver creates, and can be handy to have them there just in case you need to plug an LCD to fix things. I'd use Arcade_OSD instead of Quickres, it will show you which of these modes are actually custom modes created by VMMaker and which are native modes. GroovyMame with the modeline option will only pick modes from the custom created ones so they won't get mixed.

If groovy mame will not be selecting them, then it won't be an issue.

bitbytebit:
Since I'm aiming for the system to scale everything 2x to fill the screen, how exactly do I need to have Groovymame configured? You had mentioned including d2929 into the newest build, is that posted yet?

[Calamity]

What should I base the active/virtual limits on? I set 600/600 since that's the maximum lines the default specs for the monitor list (800x600).

Use 600/601, that means all modes until 600 included will be progressive, and from 601 on they'll be calculated as interlaced (probably none).

GroovyMame won't select your x2 scaled resolutions automatically, you'll need to manually create an ini for each game by now, unfortunately. No extra option should be needed appart from the resolution, Mame should scale it if your resolution is a multiple (I might be wrong!).

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

If I already have .inis per game set up for controls and what not, will it append/update, or overwrite?

[Calamity]

It will overwrite them! Be careful. But I didn't mean you used VMMaker to generate the inis by now, the logic you need for those inis is not implemented either in VMMaker or Switchres, that's why you'd need to make them manually, doing that will involve a lot of pain in my opinion, it's a madness, you could create several ones for testing only.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

yeah i duplicated my ini folder and noticed that vmmaker's ini's all set most of them to my lowest specified res of 480x480.

I suppose I'll go back to my custom generated modeline list and tinker with the frontporch.

Ironically using VMMaker most of the modes generated I couldn't get to stretch all the way across the monitor, even ones that could using mine that curled over. I guess it's using too conservative of values?

[bitbytebit]

The ReslList.txt file is used as a manual resolution source (vs or + Mame.xml), so edit that file if you want to add any desired modeline to be generated. Default porch values should be safe enough for most arcade monitors and tv sets. It's the hfreq/vfreq range where the important decisions are based on, as well as the ActiveLinesLimit/VirtualLinesLimit pair.

What should I base the active/virtual limits on? I set 600/600 since that's the maximum lines the default specs for the monitor list (800x600).

You don't need to remove those resolutions actually, they're default native vesa modes the driver creates, and can be handy to have them there just in case you need to plug an LCD to fix things. I'd use Arcade_OSD instead of Quickres, it will show you which of these modes are actually custom modes created by VMMaker and which are native modes. GroovyMame with the modeline option will only pick modes from the custom created ones so they won't get mixed.

If groovy mame will not be selecting them, then it won't be an issue.

bitbytebit:
Since I'm aiming for the system to scale everything 2x to fill the screen, how exactly do I need to have Groovymame configured? You had mentioned including d2929 into the newest build, is that posted yet?

It's in the newest builds, its 'm2929' for that monitor model name/number that you have.

[torino]

So this software beside authentic resolutions can also set all those refresh rates which are not exactly 60Hz, like Galaga: 224x288 @ 60.606061Hz, right? Is that X-windows based application, and so does it use desktop video drivers, or can it perhaps work without X-windows from the console via VESA or frame-buffer drivers maybe? If it only works with X-windows, does it then only work in some 'full-screen" mode or maybe the whole X-windows desktop changes to set resolution?

What version and kind of MAME you testing this with?
Is performance better, same or worse than on Windows?

If you can set the exact refresh rates as MAME, then you should have no problems to perfectly sync all those games with monitor V-sync, right? But can you get smooth scrolling and fluid animation even with the latest MAME and what are the important settings to make it all work nicely without any scroll tearing or choppiness, if possible? Finally, can this be used with PC CRT monitors, and are there any similar tool for DOS or Windows?



Thank you.

By the way, do you rememberer "Scitech Display Doctor"?

[bitbytebit]

So this software beside authentic resolutions can also set all those refresh rates which are not exactly 60Hz, like Galaga: 224x288 @ 60.606061Hz, right? Is that X-windows based application, and so does it use desktop video drivers, or can it perhaps work without X-windows from the console via VESA or frame-buffer drivers maybe? If it only works with X-windows, does it then only work in some 'full-screen" mode or maybe the whole X-windows desktop changes to set resolution?

What version and kind of MAME you testing this with?
Is performance better, same or worse than on Windows?

If you can set the exact refresh rates as MAME, then you should have no problems to perfectly sync all those games with monitor V-sync, right? But can you get smooth scrolling and fluid animation even with the latest MAME and what are the important settings to make it all work nicely without any scroll tearing or choppiness, if possible? Finally, can this be used with PC CRT monitors, and are there any similar tool for DOS or Windows?



Thank you.

By the way, do you rememberer "Scitech Display Doctor"?

Yep, it can get pretty exact on the refresh rate used by most games in Mame, the more capable the monitor the closer it can get in both horizontal/vertical size and refresh rate. 

There is a Windows version and Linux version, both the same code mostly, but in Windows we have to use registry custom modes like Soft15khz does, limited by amount of custom resolutions a card can accept for height/width but can customize any of those to any refresh rate we need.  It also is right now really only working for 15khz mode with ATI cards, both Linux and Windows, although in Linux might be more capable of other cards. 

It works really well in Linux, decent in Windows, in Linux for X Windows using xrandr and a custom kernel patch and such, you can get very precise resolutions and with a d9800 + ATI card pretty much spot on everything.

In Linux xrandr does all the resolution changing of the X Windows desktop, and can do it quite well.  Performance for me has been better in Linux, others have reported it quite nice there too.  Calamity can comment more on how it works in Windows, but I am guessing in Linux you'll always have a lighter load on the system, although I don't really have any proof of that myself so one would want to test the two side by side themselves to see.

There's no tearing when setup right, everything is smooth scrolling without choppiness, following the vsync of the monitor and and page flipping through interrupts with the ATI cards.  In Linux it is great, in Windows it is quite good too.

The framebuffer in Linux unfortunately isn't really able to do the resolutions like through X windows and xrandr right now, there are quite a few limitations currently in the design of the framebuffer.  Hopefully in the future that will change, something I someday would like to look at.  They basically are hard to get exact dotclocks/pixelclock values, and are mostly limited to either hardwired modes or VESA ones (my patch puts in a few modes for 15khz so bootup/console is good).

It can work with PC CRT and LCD monitors, you might resort to doublescan and other virtualization or other less than optimal stuff, because there's just limitations to those monitors and modelines they can take and display.  I run it in Linux on my LCD for testing sometimes, and can get some pretty nice/interesting results on a 16:9 monitor.  Some games though don't work without a slight change in the width because there's some limitations on those monitors at times with things less than 320 pixels wide.

This all works upon the basic algorithms from Calamity for the modeline calculations, the methods of getting refresh rate changes in the Windows registry for ATI cards without a reboot.  He basically is the one who knew how all this was possible, I've coded it into the mame version 0141u3 + patch currently, a modeline generator switchres and wrapper to other emulators, and a whole Linux distribution based around it with LiveCD capability to allow a person to avoid having to really collect all the  parts in Linux themselves.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

By the way, do you rememberer "Scitech Display Doctor"?

There's a name I haven't heard in ages. I remember playing with it back in the day.. Can't remember what I was trying to do with it though.

[torino]

So this software beside authentic resolutions can also set all those refresh rates which are not exactly 60Hz, like Galaga: 224x288 @ 60.606061Hz, right? Is that X-windows based application, and so does it use desktop video drivers, or can it perhaps work without X-windows from the console via VESA or frame-buffer drivers maybe? If it only works with X-windows, does it then only work in some 'full-screen" mode or maybe the whole X-windows desktop changes to set resolution?

What version and kind of MAME you testing this with?
Is performance better, same or worse than on Windows?

If you can set the exact refresh rates as MAME, then you should have no problems to perfectly sync all those games with monitor V-sync, right? But can you get smooth scrolling and fluid animation even with the latest MAME and what are the important settings to make it all work nicely without any scroll tearing or choppiness, if possible? Finally, can this be used with PC CRT monitors, and are there any similar tool for DOS or Windows?



Thank you.

By the way, do you rememberer "Scitech Display Doctor"?

Yep, it can get pretty exact on the refresh rate used by most games in Mame, the more capable the monitor the closer it can get in both horizontal/vertical size and refresh rate. 

There is a Windows version and Linux version, both the same code mostly, but in Windows we have to use registry custom modes like Soft15khz does, limited by amount of custom resolutions a card can accept for height/width but can customize any of those to any refresh rate we need.  It also is right now really only working for 15khz mode with ATI cards, both Linux and Windows, although in Linux might be more capable of other cards. 

It works really well in Linux, decent in Windows, in Linux for X Windows using xrandr and a custom kernel patch and such, you can get very precise resolutions and with a d9800 + ATI card pretty much spot on everything.

In Linux xrandr does all the resolution changing of the X Windows desktop, and can do it quite well.  Performance for me has been better in Linux, others have reported it quite nice there too.  Calamity can comment more on how it works in Windows, but I am guessing in Linux you'll always have a lighter load on the system, although I don't really have any proof of that myself so one would want to test the two side by side themselves to see.

There's no tearing when setup right, everything is smooth scrolling without choppiness, following the vsync of the monitor and and page flipping through interrupts with the ATI cards.  In Linux it is great, in Windows it is quite good too.

The framebuffer in Linux unfortunately isn't really able to do the resolutions like through X windows and xrandr right now, there are quite a few limitations currently in the design of the framebuffer.  Hopefully in the future that will change, something I someday would like to look at.  They basically are hard to get exact dotclocks/pixelclock values, and are mostly limited to either hardwired modes or VESA ones (my patch puts in a few modes for 15khz so bootup/console is good).

It can work with PC CRT and LCD monitors, you might resort to doublescan and other virtualization or other less than optimal stuff, because there's just limitations to those monitors and modelines they can take and display.  I run it in Linux on my LCD for testing sometimes, and can get some pretty nice/interesting results on a 16:9 monitor.  Some games though don't work without a slight change in the width because there's some limitations on those monitors at times with things less than 320 pixels wide.

This all works upon the basic algorithms from Calamity for the modeline calculations, the methods of getting refresh rate changes in the Windows registry for ATI cards without a reboot.  He basically is the one who knew how all this was possible, I've coded it into the mame version 0141u3 + patch currently, a modeline generator switchres and wrapper to other emulators, and a whole Linux distribution based around it with LiveCD capability to allow a person to avoid having to really collect all the  parts in Linux themselves.

Thank you. That's great.

Just one thing, I am pretty sure LCDs have truly fixed refresh rates, at exactly 60Hz, so they should not be able to properly sync with games like Galaga running @60.606Hz, or anything else that is not exactly 60Hz. Is that right?

[torino]

By the way, do you rememberer "Scitech Display Doctor"?

There's a name I haven't heard in ages. I remember playing with it back in the day.. Can't remember what I was trying to do with it though.

They invented VESA standard. If you ever used DOS you must know "UNIVBE.EXE" - the VESA driver. At the time many video cards in use were without any VESA support, and 'Scitech Doctor' could "cure" those crappy cards and turn them into healthy ones. Sometimes the gain in performances would be really amazing, truly spectacular. In windows, they could get you from 640x480 to 800x600 and above, and it was the only product at the time that could do anything like that, to everyone's surprise. It was miraculous, everyone was using it, and so I find it curious no one remembers it any more. Their SNAP/MGL library is very portable and still in use across many platforms, in mostly embedded devices. You could say Scitech SNAP of yesterday is Trolltech Qtopia of today.

Anyway, beside fast and portable graphic/sound library (kind of like Allegro, only better), there were also many tools to set and test wide range of resolutions, possibly completely arbitrary like this software does, all of which was released later as Open Source. The point is, I believe the pathway (video registers) via which you can set all those resolutions on today's modern video cards is the same one that came along with VESA standard many years ago, so this old library might still prove useful today and in the future, as PC of yesterday is mobile phone of today.

[bitbytebit]

Thank you. That's great.

Just one thing, I am pretty sure LCDs have truly fixed refresh rates, at exactly 60Hz, so they should not be able to properly sync with games like Galaga running @60.606Hz, or anything else that is not exactly 60Hz. Is that right?

That figures, I wonder if the LCD monitors that are made for arcade monitor replacements that are 15khz capable might be able to do this, or it's again something that is never going to be as exact.  I definitely have seen more jumpy percentages on the LCD monitor compared to my arcade monitor when using F11 and checking the percentage speed games are running when using the vsync.

I read about that company in Wikipedia that made Scitech display doctor, definitely interesting sounding.  I guess one big issue with video card hardware is that newer ones like the ATI 6xxx series and above are using proprietary register setups compared to the older ones.  I was reading how powerstrip took forever to work with the 5xxx series because of this, and I'm not sure if it even works with newer ones.  So what has happened, like with advanced mame even, is that older video cards definitely can be understood through these types of older programs and methods.  Yet unfortunately video card makers seem to have been closing the doors and altering the standards more and more in recent years from what I can tell.  It still can be figured out, but seems like it takes about the time a chip becomes 1-2 generations out of date/old and it's never the same because the interface is not completely ever worked out to fully exploit the video chips possibilities.

[MonkeyJug]

bitbytebit,

today i bought all the required parts to build a new pc to install inside my cab.  presently, it is being co-used with my main pc, so i'm now ready to hard-install it inside the cab.

i like the fact that the linux version runs pretty much ootb and is currently running better than in windows, so i''m going to attempt to install it in my cab innards.

is there a guide to getting it all setup and running, with the pre-installed front end?

sorry to be a pain, mate...