NetPlay with MAME???

[WhereEaglesDare]

Is there anyway to NetPlay with MAME???   

[Gray_Area]

Old idea, old debate. However, there is something new.

clientservermame/mess

[jamesjones626]

find an old version of mame that supports kailera.  or use final burn or kawaks.

[Haze]

find an old version of mame that supports kailera.  or use final burn or kawaks.

The one previously linked is legal and mamedev approved.

Using the old ones you mentioned (which as it happens aren't approved, and break the MAME license) would be a bit like connecting an unpatched original non-SP release of Windows XP to the Internet.

[Osirus23]

would be a bit like connecting an unpatched original non-SP release of Windows XP to the Internet.

Don't think Haze is using hyperbole here folks, there are plenty of people who are actually still doing that...

[WhereEaglesDare]

would be a bit like connecting an unpatched original non-SP release of Windows XP to the Internet.

Don't think Haze is using hyperbole here folks, there are plenty of people who are actually still doing that...

What exactly is wrong about not wanting service packs installed?  If it is a genuine XP...

[Haze]

would be a bit like connecting an unpatched original non-SP release of Windows XP to the Internet.

Don't think Haze is using hyperbole here folks, there are plenty of people who are actually still doing that...

What exactly is wrong about not wanting service packs installed?  If it is a genuine XP...

Service packs fix bugs.

The last thing you ever want to do is connect old buggy code to the internet.  I believe it takes something like 5 seconds of internet access for an unpatched version of XP to become hacked and part of a botnet attacking other machines, sending all your data to some random russian and chinese servers, and acting as a spam replay due to the sheer number of out-the-box exploits in it.  You don't even have to do anything except connect it.

Putting such a machine behind a strong firewall might help for a while, but heaven help you if you then try to browse the internet with an unpatched version of the browser too, same result.  (and don't assume just because you use 'safe' sites that bad ad banners and such won't end up hijacking your PC anyway, it happens often)

Using old buggy exploitable code on a network is just asking for your PC to be hacked.  Unpatched XP is the prime example because the situation is so bad, but in reality it applies to everything, and old unsupported software is only going to be more vulnerable because nobody is actively fixing the exploit bugs. (and if the source to said code isn't available can't fix the bugs even if they wanted to)

Not being up to date with service packs and patches (especially for any software which processes data coming from outside of your PC, ie a network) makes you a *big* part of the problem.  Your machine could quite happily be there, attacking other machines and doing 1000 malicious things in the background you're completely unaware of, and if you're running a completely unpatched OS, it probably is.

[WhereEaglesDare]

indeed   

[ark_ader]

would be a bit like connecting an unpatched original non-SP release of Windows XP to the Internet.

Don't think Haze is using hyperbole here folks, there are plenty of people who are actually still doing that...

What exactly is wrong about not wanting service packs installed?  If it is a genuine XP...

Service packs fix bugs.

The last thing you ever want to do is connect old buggy code to the internet.  I believe it takes something like 5 seconds of internet access for an unpatched version of XP to become hacked and part of a botnet attacking other machines, sending all your data to some random russian and chinese servers, and acting as a spam replay due to the sheer number of out-the-box exploits in it.  You don't even have to do anything except connect it.

Putting such a machine behind a strong firewall might help for a while, but heaven help you if you then try to browse the internet with an unpatched version of the browser too, same result.  (and don't assume just because you use 'safe' sites that bad ad banners and such won't end up hijacking your PC anyway, it happens often)

Using old buggy exploitable code on a network is just asking for your PC to be hacked.  Unpatched XP is the prime example because the situation is so bad, but in reality it applies to everything, and old unsupported software is only going to be more vulnerable because nobody is actively fixing the exploit bugs. (and if the source to said code isn't available can't fix the bugs even if they wanted to)

Not being up to date with service packs and patches (especially for any software which processes data coming from outside of your PC, ie a network) makes you a *big* part of the problem.  Your machine could quite happily be there, attacking other machines and doing 1000 malicious things in the background you're completely unaware of, and if you're running a completely unpatched OS, it probably is.

Rubbish Haze you sound like M$ PR.

Just use a proxy, turn off services, do not run as SU.  Strip it down using Nlite.

If you are paranoid use Linux or go Virtual.

Dedicated MAME cabs generally do not use SP XP, more like Windows 2000.

[Haze]

Rubbish Haze you sound like M$ PR.

Just use a proxy, turn off services, do not run as SU.  Strip it down using Nlite.

If you are paranoid use Linux or go Virtual.

Dedicated MAME cabs generally do not use SP XP, more like Windows 2000.

and you will still get hacked if somebody so desires.  It's not BS, and if you believe it is you're probably running some zombie services on your box as a result.  I've seen far too many 'secured' 'behind tight firewalls' but still hacked to s**t systems just because they were running insecure software to think anything else.  Giving yourself a false sense of security is worse than having none at all because you actually start to believe you're secure.

A firewall or proxy only stops what you don't allow through, plenty of reputable websites end up with infected code, and short of having a whitelist rather than a blacklist (which is baiscally impossible with the internet if you want to access anything) then you're vulnerable if you're running buggy software.  Turning off scripting won't even help you, many exploits exist in common image and document formats with the unpatched systems.  (the latest Mac / iPhone exploits all used holes in Adobe's PDF functionality to take total control of the systems, no firewall or proxy would help there.)

I honestly can't believe anybody is stupid enough to think it's safe...people make patches for a reason, it isn't just to disable 'illegal' software.    ignorance is bliss?

Win2000 is even more vulnerable than XP because the security improvements and sandboxing of IE etc. never got backported.  Unpatched Linux is no better, and you don't have to be running as root to be vulnerable, that's what privileged escalation exploits are all about, once you find a way of running code on the machine it's yours, no matter what security measures and user account levels are in place.

One thing you learn when doing emulation, especially if you're dealing with protection systems, is how to find exploits.  Once they're found, and their use is in the wild then you'd better make sure you're patched against them.  The same logic applies.

The sheer number of people who don't understand this is why the problem is as bad as it is now.

[Osirus23]

Don't leave out the people who refuse to upgrade past IE6.

[ark_ader]

Rubbish Haze you sound like M$ PR.

Just use a proxy, turn off services, do not run as SU.  Strip it down using Nlite.

If you are paranoid use Linux or go Virtual.

Dedicated MAME cabs generally do not use SP XP, more like Windows 2000.

and you will still get hacked if somebody so desires.  It's not BS, and if you believe it is you're probably running some zombie services on your box as a result.  I've seen far too many 'secured' 'behind tight firewalls' but still hacked to s**t systems just because they were running insecure software to think anything else.  Giving yourself a false sense of security is worse than having none at all because you actually start to believe you're secure.

A firewall or proxy only stops what you don't allow through, plenty of reputable websites end up with infected code, and short of having a whitelist rather than a blacklist (which is baiscally impossible with the internet if you want to access anything) then you're vulnerable if you're running buggy software.  Turning off scripting won't even help you, many exploits exist in common image and document formats with the unpatched systems.  (the latest Mac / iPhone exploits all used holes in Adobe's PDF functionality to take total control of the systems, no firewall or proxy would help there.)

I honestly can't believe anybody is stupid enough to think it's safe...people make patches for a reason, it isn't just to disable 'illegal' software.    ignorance is bliss?

Win2000 is even more vulnerable than XP because the security improvements and sandboxing of IE etc. never got backported.  Unpatched Linux is no better, and you don't have to be running as root to be vulnerable, that's what privileged escalation exploits are all about, once you find a way of running code on the machine it's yours, no matter what security measures and user account levels are in place.

One thing you learn when doing emulation, especially if you're dealing with protection systems, is how to find exploits.  Once they're found, and their use is in the wild then you'd better make sure you're patched against them.  The same logic applies.

The sheer number of people who don't understand this is why the problem is as bad as it is now.

If you play in the toilet you are bound to get ---smurfy--- eventually.

It doesn't matter what OS you use, common sense prevails.

I manage and sell game servers all day, hacking and patching is part and parcel, but you don't need to be paranoid.  You are letting the hacker win if you do.  It is important to be able to play against your mates online.

I always get hacked - heck I'm taking my Hons Degree in Computer Security, it is a learning process, but not one that should deter you from having fun.

So I get my cab rigged to online play with some friends with a special build of MAME.  Marvelous.  Better yet invite them around with a 24 pack of beer and fire her up. 

Incidentally I connect my PSP via Kai and I have had no problems, same as several of my Win2K servers here at home running CSS and L4D.

You paint a dark picture Haze, do yourself a favor and let in some light. 

[abispac]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO IM SO GONNA HACK EVERYNONE THAT DONT USE A SERVICE PACK.....YEAH RIGHT........ooops i forgot, my online mame cab does not do anything ealse, so who cares if it gets hacked....

[WhereEaglesDare]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO IM SO GONNA HACK EVERYNONE THAT DONT USE A SERVICE PACK.....YEAH RIGHT........ooops i forgot, my online mame cab does not do anything ealse, so who cares if it gets hacked....

If it gets hacked then you would have a bot on your network and can sniff out sensitive data on the way to the router.

its called Monkey in the Middle

http://revision3.com/hak5/monkey-business

and it doesnt quite work like that...  OOOOOOOOOOOOOO IM SO GONNA HACK EVERYNONE THAT DONT USE A SERVICE PACK.....

what they do is send the information to everyone that access a specific email, pdf, or website and the service packs block this malicious information, if you dont have the sp to block it then they may be able to get all kinds of information off you network.

[nipsmg]

Sorry abispac, You're actually the one in the wrong here.

Haze and WhereEaglesDare are absolutely right.  Putting an unpatched machine on the internet puts you at a very high risk for your machine being compromised and used as part of a botnet, and the true risk to you is that a computer at your location may be being used for illegal purposes.   You don't want to end up unknowingly having your home computer used to hack a government system or as part of a child pornography distribution ring.  Is it likely that something THAT extreme will happen?  No.  Is it extremely likely that your machine will be compromised in some way just by having it on the internet?  Yes.

I don't know about the others responding, but I have 15 years experience in both Systems/Network administration and am currently a Senior Consultant for a Microsoft Gold Partner consulting firm.  Some of us here know what we're talking about.

[headkaze]

Sorry abispac, You're actually the one in the wrong here.

+1. I used to work as a Network Admin myself (although these were Win95/98 days). Anyway it's really just common sense. How often do you do an update and see "Security Update xxxxx.. allows a remote attacker to ...". Are you saying there arn't hackers out there who take advantage of these exploits? Half the time it's hackers who discover them. Earlier SP versions are always more vulnerable.

[ark_ader]

Sorry abispac, You're actually the one in the wrong here.

+1. I used to work as a Network Admin myself (although these were Win95/98 days). Anyway it's really just common sense. How often do you do an update and see "Security Update xxxxx.. allows a remote attacker to ...". Are you saying there arn't hackers out there who take advantage of these exploits? Half the time it's hackers who discover them. Earlier SP versions are always more vulnerable.

How many times have you updated to a named patch only to find that your clients have broken applications.  I never directly trust a SP unless it has been field and QA tested, besides our security policies are so strict that breaches are practically unheard of.  Some of you might laugh, but we run NT4 on the remote sites, still, without ANY issues what so ever. 

Its like you close all the doors via a SP only to find out later on that the basement door was left unlocked. 

You can isolate any PC from Internet attack, again it is just simple common sense and good security.

[Lilwolf]

btw, are we still talking about ClientServerMAME?

I'm downloading it now.  Curious how well it works... And wondering if anyone has a server setup.  I would love to get it on my cab...

And heck... would be sweet to add it as part of my frontend!

[WhereEaglesDare]

... I am having a hard time with it.  Let me know what you figure out.

[Haze]

You can isolate any PC from Internet attack, again it is just simple common sense and good security.

Unless you're running vulnerable apps on the network to access things, or there is a way for a remote server to access a vulnerable app running on one of the machines.  You can isolate any PC from internet attack, by unplugging it from the internet, completely.

Your security is only as good as your weakest link.  Every program you allow to access the internet, or be accessed from the internet represents a risk.  If those programs are old and unpatched that risk is significantly higher, sorry, but that's just common sense.  Your average person's PC is going to be used for day to day tasks, and potentially have a large amount of vulnerable software in direct contact with the internet, using old and unpatched software in such a case is irresponsible at best.

As I've said, we live in an age where a malformed image or document file can compromise the entire security of your PC, and no firewall is going to block every single image, piece of flash, and PDF document 'just in case'.  An Antivirus might save you on those, but again, only if you actually keep it up to date with the latest patches....

As for the "it's not my problem, I don't care if I get infected I only use it for games" guy, sure...  but as I said, your machine then becomes part of the problem, it's attacking other machines, acting as a cloak behind which people can hide, acting as a spam relay, and quite possibly acting as a storage FTP for god knows what. 

[tspeirs]

Back to Client/Server MAME. Just to let you know GameEx now has support for this version of MAME, including some custom server side and client code to keep track of requests.

I hope some people will check it out. It has the potential to be quite cool, as the implentation can be operated with Arcade Controls.

You can read more here:
http://www.gameex.info/forums/index.php?showtopic=8922

Thanks.

[ark_ader]

You can isolate any PC from Internet attack, again it is just simple common sense and good security.

Your average person's PC is going to be used for day to day tasks, and potentially have a large amount of vulnerable software in direct contact with the internet, using old and unpatched software in such a case is irresponsible at best.

It is funny you should say that.  I looked at migrating from 2000 to stock XP  N-lited, stored on CD using RAM as swap (it works-ish).  Then we looked at Puppy Arcade 6 and decided to keep Puppy as it is a live installation with files on DVD in the cab.  So now the previous discussion regarding internet threats is quashed, as there is nothing to infect.  I'm enthused enough to see if - Kaillera server will work with puppy.  Puppy installs in ram and is very quick.

I hear that Xmame has the code for netplay, but has to be activated somehow.