Robotron Cabaret

[HaRuMaN]

 

I'm coming over to your house...   

[opt2not]

you had to get dinner started!
 
 

Yup! It was steak-night last night, and I'm the Grill Master. 

[opt2not]

I'm coming over to your house...   

You're more than welcome HarumaN!  All I can offer is Robotron and Steak though...

[HaRuMaN]

I'm coming over to your house...   

You're more than welcome HarumaN!  All I can offer is Robotron and Steak though...

Nothing wrong with that!   

[gryhnd]

You're more than welcome HarumaN!  All I can offer is Robotron and Steak though...

Just keep the HP Sauce off the Robotron...

[RayB]

   Did you set it to Easy or something? That's cheating! ;-)

[Epyx]

Lol and hes within a 20 min drive of me *cough* jk

That is awesome and again grats on a great cab...can't wait to see this one sparkley mint! 

[opt2not]

 Did you set it to Easy or something? That's cheating! ;-)

Haha, no way!
That run was at default settings:
Difficulty - 5
Extra lives - 25000 Points
Starting lives - 3

I was so used to playing this game on my Mame cabinet using Sanwa JLW's w/ square bases (bleah ), but playing with the original Wico controls makes a world of difference! I'm so happy with them.

Right now I have the game fixed to Tournament settings:
Difficulty - 5
Extra lives - none
Starting lives - 5

Basically see how many points you can get before you die 5 times. It's a pretty fun challenge, I've been able to get to almost 400,000.
John Macallister (the new Asteroids marathon record holder) has the current tournament settings world record at 1,236,950.  I think it's a doable record...I've been considering challenging it, or at least getting up on the records board, but it'll have to wait till I fix up the cabinet.
The nice thing about these settings is that the game lasts very short periods of time. When I play on regular settings, sometimes I can go for an hour or more on a single credit. This way I can have a nice little insert of gameplay while taking a break from work I'm doing at home.

Lol and hes within a 20 min drive of me *cough* jk

That is awesome and again grats on a great cab...can't wait to see this one sparkley mint!  

Heh, I should get you and Ryglore over for a gaming night one of these days. I'd be great to meet a couple arcade enthusiasts, and inspiring hobbyists at that, in my area. I've been wanting to put together a retro-game-challenge party one of these days, perhaps after this is done I will!  

[Epyx]

Heh, I should get you and Ryglore over for a gaming night one of these days. I'd be great to meet a couple arcade enthusiasts, and inspiring hobbyists at that, in my area. I've been wanting to put together a retro-game-challenge party one of these days, perhaps after this is done I will!

Agreed...would be cool this summer...night of pure retro gaming.  Ill try to have my vertical cab done by then for a 2nd venue

[opt2not]

Well, I soak-tested all day yesterday after replacing that DRAM chip.  Played a bunch as well, but eventually something gave out and that resetting has returned. Only this time it's worse.
Now it resets after 3-5 mins of play, and doesn't give me an error code.
 
I'm going to have to be diligent and thoroughly check my Power Supply voltages, cables and solder connections for any irregularities.

Bah, had a single day of Robotron bliss...

[jasonbar]

Congrats--enjoy.  Hope the Wico parts I sent you come in handy.  If you need more grommets, here's where I got a pair for $16.  Seems like a good deal--seller took almost a week to ship out, but I was in no rush, so no biggie.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-WICO-Joystick-CENTER-GROMMET-SET-OF-2_W0QQitemZ170447349603QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27af742763

My cocktail Defender used to have flaky resets--it turned out to be the power supply--pushing on the power supply PCB could force a reset.  Cracked solder joints.  Try it out.  If you can make it reset, reflow the solder on all the joints.  Might work...

-Jason

[TheShanMan]

Yeah, reflow the solder joints and could even be the connector itself. Also, check the voltage at one of the chips, because there will be voltage drop between the PS and what the chips themselves get. Might just need to crank up the +5v a bit (like to 5.1 for instance).

You might even want to talk to Dokert on the klov forums - he's reproduced Williams wiring harnesses and power harnesses, and I think that included a cabaret cabinet. They're pretty reasonable price-wise. My defender is much more dependable now - money WELL spent. Dokert is also a wiz at Williams power supplies (far better to go with a linear than use a switcher).

[SirPeale]

Reflowing on these is a band-aid.  The pins get corroded and the solder doesn't stick to them well.  They should probably be replaced.  Connectors too.  Don't use IDC ones.

[opt2not]

Congrats--enjoy.  Hope the Wico parts I sent you come in handy.  If you need more grommets, here's where I got a pair for $16.  Seems like a good deal--seller took almost a week to ship out, but I was in no rush, so no biggie.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-WICO-Joystick-CENTER-GROMMET-SET-OF-2_W0QQitemZ170447349603QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27af742763

Thanks for the Link Jason!  I'll probably get a few of these later on.

Yeah, reflow the solder joints and could even be the connector itself. Also, check the voltage at one of the chips, because there will be voltage drop between the PS and what the chips themselves get. Might just need to crank up the +5v a bit (like to 5.1 for instance).

You might even want to talk to Dokert on the klov forums - he's reproduced Williams wiring harnesses and power harnesses, and I think that included a cabaret cabinet. They're pretty reasonable price-wise. My defender is much more dependable now - money WELL spent. Dokert is also a wiz at Williams power supplies (far better to go with a linear than use a switcher).

Yeah, I've been using the search there a lot, he seems to have a lot of knowledge of these PS's, so I'll just siphon off any info that's already posted there.  I will be keeping the original Linear PS, with probably a rebuild. I've read that a rebuilt linear would most likely out-last a switcher...and functioning longevity is my goal here.

Reflowing on these is a band-aid.  The pins get corroded and the solder doesn't stick to them well.  They should probably be replaced.  Connectors too.  Don't use IDC ones.

Yeah, from an eye-ball check, I found this off the Power Supply Assembly :







Looks like we got some burn-out action happening. Going to need to be replaced!

[SirPeale]

Those are the IDC kind I mentioned above.  Replace the connectors, pins and housing and you'll be good to go for another 30,000 miles.

[opt2not]

Those are the IDC kind I mentioned above.  Replace the connectors, pins and housing and you'll be good to go for another 30,000 miles.

Yessir.
I was also reading a few posts on the KLOV forums (including one from you regarding these connectors! ) and it seems like this is a pretty common problem.  Bob Roberts has a Deluxe OEM Williams PS kit that I was thinking of getting for a full rebuild.  It has the standard connector kit (molex), repair, and the additional headers, Rectifiers and the like.

I'll be putting together my shopping list shortly. 

[RayB]

What does IDC stand for?

[opt2not]

What does IDC stand for?

Insulated Displacement Connector.
Though from what I was reading, they're pretty crappy at the insulating part...over time.

[opt2not]

Added the restoration plan and potential cost to the first post.

I got a question: what is your opinion of changing the leather black t-molding to chrome?
The purist in me is saying "it's not original looking!", but I've been considering sprucing it up a bit with the chrome, making it look more "blingy".

I've worked with chrome t-molding before, and it really gives the cabinet a "tournament/special edition" look to it. With the addition of the brighter LED lighting, I was thinking that the chrome could really compliment the cabinet...

Thoughts?

[RayB]

I say.... don't do it.

[HaRuMaN]

I say.... don't do it.

+1

[opt2not]

Yeah, I think I might just keep it original looking. Although I love the chrome molding, I think it's best that I use it for another project.
It was just a thought.
Thanks guys.

[RayB]

Chrome t-molding is meant to go on slots and poker machines. And that's it! 

[opt2not]

Chrome t-molding is meant to go on slots and poker machines. And that's it! 

I'm ok with it going on Mame machines too. Originals, less so (i had a moment of weakness -- sorry!).

Not much of an update, now that I've freed up some time in my evenings, I can concentrate on this restoration. Got an order quote from bob roberts, $89.00 for the deluxe PS rebuild kit, new power cord, upgraded Ram chips and power adapter plugs, battery conversion kit, and some new fuses. Not bad!

[opt2not]

I got a sweet delivery in the mail from Bob Roberts yesterday! Woo hoo!

1x   Williams Deluxe OEM PS Repair Kit
1x  Wms 4116 to 4164 RAM Power Adaptor
24x 4164 RAM
1x  Wms Battery Conversion Kit
1x  AC Line Cord 8' 3 conductor black
1x  Wms Fuse Kit

He also threw in a free pair of wire cutters.  What a guy!





Now it's time to get started. Last weekend I did a bunch of re-organizing of my workspace to start this restoration, and I'm free of any OT requirements at work now as well.
Stay tuned!

[Spyridon]

Any progress?  I just reread the entire thread to get some ideas for my Robotron.  Good information in here.

[opt2not]

Any progress?  I just reread the entire thread to get some ideas for my Robotron.  Good information in here.

Thanks!  I've been busy with some art commissions during my spare time, so I haven't been able to fully concentrate on this. But, I've recently gutted the cabinet and am in the middle of rebuilding the power supply, as well as working on stripping the cabinet paint. I'll post some pictures when I'm done.

I take you're ready to do your Robotron restore eh?? 

I'll be ramping up on this one shortly, once I can finish off some artwork I  can focus on getting this baby minty! It's been sitting around taunting me, poking at me to work on it. I must heed it's call...   

[Spyridon]

...in the middle of rebuilding the power supply,

I see you went with the deluxe rebuild kit for $35.  I'm trying to decide if I should just go with the $10 rebuild kit or ship it off to Dokert to have the rebuild done for $35 (plus shipping to him, so say $40 total).  If option 1 works, it only costs $10.  With option 2, I'm guaranteed to get a working power supply for about the cost of the deluxe repair.

Edit: Option 3 is the $12 rebuild kit which adds in the connectors

[opt2not]

If you can do it yourself, why not just go with Option 3?
Rebuilding Williams PS's is pretty straight forward...it's just time really. But then, if time = money, then I guess sending it off to Dokert would be worth it.  It's up to you though. I'm of the opinion that it's always better to do it yourself.

[Spyridon]

If you can do it yourself, why not just go with Option 3?
Rebuilding Williams PS's is pretty straight forward...it's just time really. But then, if time = money, then I guess sending it off to Dokert would be worth it.  It's up to you though. I'm of the opinion that it's always better to do it yourself.

I don't mind doing it myself, but my thought was if I had to pay for the $35 deluxe kit, I could just send it out for the same price and have it done for me.

[opt2not]

If you can do it yourself, why not just go with Option 3?
Rebuilding Williams PS's is pretty straight forward...it's just time really. But then, if time = money, then I guess sending it off to Dokert would be worth it.  It's up to you though. I'm of the opinion that it's always better to do it yourself.

I don't mind doing it myself, but my thought was if I had to pay for the $35 deluxe kit, I could just send it out for the same price and have it done for me.

In retrospec, I probably could have done the same. But I want to learn as much as I can about this cab, for any future maintenance I would have to do.

I just finished my rebuild last night! It wasn't too bad, the only thing that gave me a hard time was replacing the headers with higher quality ones. I had to be careful not to damage any of the traces. When I disconnected and pulled the PS board out I noticed that a bunch of the headers were pretty burnt up, which merited the swap. I'll post some pictures of the before and after so you see what I mean. With a completely rebuilt PS, this should fix my resetting problem! *fingers crossed*...it should also last me another 30 years too!

[opt2not]

Here are some pictures of my power supply rebuild...

Before:


After:

The only cap i didn't replace is the big orange one, because the cap that came with the kit doesn't have the +/- connection prongs on either ends like the old one. The new cap is like the others, with the prongs at one end. Anyone have any idea of what I should do to use the new cap? Is there a mod I'm supposed to do?

One of the headers was badly burnt, and probably the culprit:


Transformer block cleaned up, new power cord with grounding prong installed:



....and the moment of truth?

SHE LIVES AGAIN!


Initially it did some funny things on boot-up, then it seemed to sort itself out. I'm wondering if the caps needed to warm up first, because works fine now after a power cycle. I went through an entire game without it resetting, and have had it running in attract mode for the last 6 hours. Looks like it's back to working condition! *phew* ...and all it took was a rebuild.

I'm going to go around and check voltages to make sure all is well.

[RayB]

Just run a wire of appropriate guage and length to install the new orange replacement. Feed one leg through one of the board holes, so it's secure and the other one jumpered with the wire.

[Paladin]

Nice job getting the game up and running!

Using A Radial Cap To Replace An Axial Cap from Bob Roberts website:
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/axial.html

[Q*Bert_OP]

Great Plains Electronics has the axial version of the capacitor you need.

[opt2not]

Sweet, I'll just run a wire to one of the legs like RayB says. Good info on that Bob Roberts link, Paladin. Thanks!

I had a pretty decent game last night, hit over 2 million (@ difficulty-5) in just about 60 mins. Decent pace!
 No crashes or failures with the board, I even kept the machine on overnight to soak-test the rebuild. I think it's safe to say it's all good now.

Next on the agenda is the battery upgrade and RAM swapping.

[opt2not]

Small update:
Since I've decided to get this baby working right (and feeling comfortable for serious play) before I do the construction restoration, I figured I'd restore parts of the joysticks.
I took apart both joysticks to see the damage:

Lots of dirt, grim and some damage.

For instance, the actuators are grimmey, but the rubber grommets are in a more worse condition.


You can see the cracks in the rubber from use and wear:


I bought a few Wico joys from jasonbar, which had some nice replacement parts, as well I followed his advice and picked up some NOS rubber grommets off ebay.


After installing the newer parts, the joys feel pretty good, but still has that new-stiff feel...I'll have to work-em-in! Either that or I find a solution to soften the rubber a bit so there's more action, and perhaps reduce the chances of the rubber cracking over time.
Anyone know if such a solution exists?

Next up is the restoration of the joystick shaft. I'm going to sand it down then polish that bad-boy up!

[Ryglore]

Next up is the restoration of the joystick shaft. I'm going to sand it down then polish that bad-boy up!

When I cleaned up my sticks for the shmup, I used various grits of sand paper and Gel-Gloss wax/cleaner. Those things shine like none other. Of course, I had the stick spinning in my drill press too so it all went in one direction.

Heh, I should get you and Ryglore over for a gaming night one of these days. I'd be great to meet a couple arcade enthusiasts, and inspiring hobbyists at that, in my area. I've been wanting to put together a retro-game-challenge party one of these days, perhaps after this is done I will!

lol, I dunno if I can be seen hanging out with Canadians... 

[opt2not]

When I cleaned up my sticks for the shmup, I used various grits of sand paper and Gel-Gloss wax/cleaner. Those things shine like none other. Of course, I had the stick spinning in my drill press too so it all went in one direction.

Niiiiice...thanks for the info! That what I figured I'd start with. Multiple sandpaper grits, and some kind of polish to finish it off.

lol, I dunno if I can be seen hanging out with Canadians... 

Canadians rock!
Don't worry, we won't bite...much. 

[Ryglore]

That Gel Gloss stuff works nicely. You just wipe it on and let it set up for a minute and then wipe it off. But really all I did was put it on and let the drill spin, while holding the paper towel to it. ha