Author Topic: Interfacing swappable Control Panels.. (Read 7171 times)

Hoopstar · « **on:** February 14, 2004, 08:55:01 pm »

I am in the process of what seems to be a pretty common build up of a Centipede cabinet along very similar lines to Carstens with three swappable CPs - single player, two player and trackball..

Anyone got some clever ideas on how they connect the panels to their IPAC so it is a fast connect/disconnect..?

I am thinking along the lines of a DB25 plug/connector, but don't really want "floppy cables" that I physically have to get in and connect.. rather both ends of the connector solidly mounted to the cab/CP and the just have the CP "click" into place. Anyone done somthing similar ?(trust me, I've used the search..)

And what about the actual mounting of the CP... what methods do you guys use for a quick connect/dis-connect??

Thanks in advance..

Hoopstar

Wienerdog · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2004, 09:30:56 pm »

Doesn't CPO stand for Control Panel Overlay?

CIA_Guy · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2004, 09:37:51 pm »

You might try a connector similar to that used on removable hard drives. If you design the panel & cabinet carefully, you ought to be able to slide one edge of the panel in first (locking into the connector) and then the rest "drops into" a recess or some such way of securing it.

Hoopstar · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2004, 09:55:37 pm »

Quote from: Wienerdog on February 14, 2004, 09:30:56 pm

Doesn't CPO stand for Control Panel Overlay?

errm, yes..

But you knew what I meant

crashwg · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2004, 10:10:26 pm »

How many pins do nes and snes have on their cartriges, maybe you could hack the insides onto the cab end of the connection and a couple cart's to the panels, that may work...

crsdawg · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2004, 11:46:13 pm »

the easiest way i know of is to use a cable similar to this one here. you can cut it in half(keeping the connectors in place) and then wire one side to your encoder and the other to your switches, then the connectors can be used for quick connect/disconnect.

(note: this particular cable has 24 wires inside, not 36)

mahuti · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2004, 12:12:56 am »

Fingerboards with Jamma connection seem to be the most logical "easy insertion force" setup. Something I've been meaning to try myself for a while. Basically, the same thing as a nintendo cartridge.

If you are interested, you can buy them off of eBay, and newsgroups, and various arcade sellers (can't get the fingerboards from happs as far as I know, but you CAN get the Jamma harness)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3274119738&category=13718

patrickl · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2004, 06:12:18 am »

I'm currently designing my swappable CP's to use the removable harddisk connectors mentioned before. In fact they are centronics connectors. I plan to slide my control panel in and then the connector will connect when it is slid in place.

I'm not sure if I can replicate a USB connection over these connectors too.

I'm still thinking about locking it in place. I bought some control panel latches, but then the problem is that I would need to go throug the coin door to open them. It would be cooler to be able to lock/unlock the control panel from above. Though I haven;t thought of anything better and I will have to open the bottom drawer (which will hold my Cp's) anyway if I want to swap panels.

Minwah · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2004, 11:12:40 am »

I'm using 12-way Molex connectors. I have one connector per player (2 players) which takes care of up/down/left/right/buttons 1-7, and another which only uses 5 pins for both coin mechs and both start buttons (my start buttons are not on the CP itself, but permanently located). Also note that some of my panels only require inputs from P1.

It looks like this, the plugs are on there but I haven't wired up to the control panel itself yet:

SirPoonga · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2004, 12:42:28 pm »

I use a dp25.

With the minipac all you need is ide cable.

Nannuu · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2004, 12:46:52 pm »

I don't have a hot swap panel but I have ideas

. I always thought that leaf style connections in the cabinet could just contact screw heads (or similar) on the control panel eliminating the need for you to actually hook anything up. That way you can just slide the panel in and lock it down in whatever way you want. Made a quick pic of what I am talking about here.

mahuti · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2004, 01:15:33 pm »

wow, that's a really interesting method that I'd never thought of before.

I think my only issue with that might be setting the leaf tension.

mahuti · « **Reply #12 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:35:24 am »

Well Nanuu. I tried out your method, and it works swimmingly.

In this pic you can see the screwhead contacts.

Here you can see the hightech leaf method that I chose.

I bought copper pipe retainers from Home Depot, cut them in half & flattened them.

So far they seem to be working well. There's room for about 25 of them (and that's all I need) on the back of my CP. Gravity does a good enough job keeping them contacted. The copper retainers are about .5" wide which gives a good surface are for the contacts. All in all, it certainly seems a good solution (if a little unattractive.) When the panel is down, you can't see it, so what's the difference. I think when all is said & done, the panel itself will be much cleaner, and will have a lot less wiring. I never liked having all the wires running to one spot, I had to buy too much wire for each panel. Now I only need about 4 inches per button.

I haven't done all 25 *yet* I will be adding contact over the next few weeks & days. I will keep you all posted whether I am successful or not.

Stingray · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2004, 11:48:03 am »

That is utterly brilliant.

-S

erikthecat · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2004, 01:42:41 pm »

what a fantastic idea!

i used RS232 25 way D type cables.
i'm wasn't sure if conductor size or 'cross talk' would be a problem, but so far so good.

GaRy:o)

www.SplatThatCat.com home made replica

Minwah · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2004, 02:08:48 pm »

Cool job mahuti

I've seen the idea on cars before, some use these kindof connectors for doors / boots for power to lights or speaker connections. I had my doubts about those getting corroded and dodgy contacts, but in a home cab I don't think that would be a problem.

Wish I had done that now, unplugging Molex connectors seems like quite an effort!

mahuti · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2004, 03:03:25 pm »

When I setup my original connectors, I had to solder all the contacts in 'cause I didn't use printer cables.... what a pain! I was never perfectly happy with my setup. It worked, and better than just one panel, but I knew there was a better way. I wanted to make it a no brainer for guests to swap these panels. And I wanted it easier for me as well.

I was working on a solution using an edge connector & a jamma harness, but that might be prone to breakage & tough for positioning. This system seems to be very sturdy, easy to install on multiple panels, and easy to maintain. Once I make a few modifications to this design (thinner copper connectors, etc) this will be a much better system than either edge connectors or cables.

I had thought about doing this before Nannuu had mentioned it, but only in a vague "how can I make the contact points really big" sort of way. His little drawing put all the pieces together. It's his idea, and a remarkably simple one.

Right now my copper's too stiff, though, and provides resistance against my panel (which is probably just a tiny bit warped. Since the copper is flush mounted to the wood, if any of the pieces are a little to high or too low, contact isn't made. I'm going to go back an install something more similar to regular leaf switches, now that I know that idea will actually work. I want to keep the price under 10$, though. Actual leaf switches are about $4-$5 each, though, and don't do what I want. I'm going to kind of have to build my own.

Oh, and about those contacts on cars.... I have those on my mini-van, and they work AWESOME! No corrosion. I think they are gold plated, and I'm sure they are EXPENSIVE!!

paigeoliver · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2004, 03:23:52 pm »

I was originally going to do pseudo jamma wiring with fingerboards for the different panels.

But, I looked at things, and I ended up ordering ten of the 16 pin molex connector sets from Bob Roberts. I think only ONE panel will need two of them, all the other panels will only need one, thus allowing me to do as many as 9 swappable control panels.

DrewKaree · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2004, 12:30:06 am »

About those "car-door" connectors, I now know the name for them, as I needed them for hooking up door speakers and whatnot last week, they are called "Jamb Tacs" and I think they would be prohibitively expensive for a cab. A 4 contact point version costs $30, so unless there's some way to daisy chain your whole friggen panel....WOW!.

Nanuu, DAMN good idea, and mahuti, EXCELLENT work in giving it a go! To add my idea after hearing your issues with the copper, what about using just screws to make the connection? One screw head touches the other, CONTACT! Also, you could use a panel clamp to give better assurance of contact and fool around with the screw height to fine tune the whole thing (loosen for more contact, tighten to remove any CP "wobble" from sitting too high up)?

Thanks for letting us know the idea would work and giving a prototype to springboard from. I was going to do 25's but now, I like this idea mo betta

mahuti · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2004, 12:40:09 am »

I went to the craft store today.

I bought a thin stick of wood. Glued that down. Got some medium weight stainless steel strips nailed holes through them, and then screwed them down in position, bent them over the wood strip. Now there is a 1/4" negative space beneath the strips, and those strips are MUCH more flexible than the copper, and they seem to conduct pretty well. Basically, with that negative space, I don't need to worry about screw hight, the contact is very easy to make. It functions more like Nannuu's picture. I'll post pictures tomorrow. I'm too busy building the rest of the connections to take any tonight. So far I'm up to 8 switches wired this way across the panel and they all function just fine.

Nannuu · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2004, 01:21:07 am »

Aha! Excellent excellent! It's nice to see an idea used, and work! That looks great so far.

mahuti · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2004, 11:05:43 am »

Updated pics

you can see the redone contacts. I'm up to 11 contacts & growing. Probably have all 25 done by this weekend.

GGKoul · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2004, 11:17:48 am »

WOW, GREAT IDEA!

I wonder if I could use this idea to on my removable 4 player panel? Does anyone see a downside to using this method over using a Printer cable?

patrickl · « **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2004, 11:31:51 am »

I guess the biggest problem would be that the leafs start bending and lose connection.

mahuti · « **Reply #24 on:** March 23, 2004, 12:20:29 pm »

I think eventually that will be an issue.

I started experimenting with small springs to provide some reverse tension.

I think that the printer cable is a much more solid solution for the long term, and one that would be fitting for a cabinet that is used where it can never become inoperable.

In my case, I don't like plugging & unplugging cables. I just want to drop & swap. When the leafs bend, I can always replace or repair them. I dont' really care if the cabinet goes down, I can always fix it up again. For now it's a fun experiment. I think as time wears on, and a couple of other people try this out, we might find some improvements to this method. I keep thinking there must be some kind of connector that operates in this way without costing a fortune (i.e. actual leaf switches @ $4.50 ea.) I haven't actually done any research, though, so it wouldn't suprise me to find something like this.

As far as a 4 player is concerned, the only issue I have is space & tension. I only have room for 25 contacts (but that's all I need) You need decent sized screws & contacts. IF there was some industrialized version of this, I'm sure they'd work out the spacing issue, but since I"m building this with screws & steel plates, I have to keep the sizing very macro. A 4 player panel is much larger anyway, so space shouldn't be an issue for you.

I think overall, it has taken me less time to wire this method than when I was soldering connectors together, but this would take more time than simply using a printer cable.

For a 4 player panel, why would you swap it? Don't you have tons of controls on that thing already?

Stingray · « **Reply #25 on:** March 23, 2004, 12:22:22 pm »

I was thinking you could just lay down a strip of rubber and then lay your leafs across that. I'm sure one bike inner tube would provide more than enough material.

-S

DrewKaree · « **Reply #26 on:** March 23, 2004, 01:20:32 pm »

Mahuti, since you've got the prototype in operation, does that screw idea seem like it would be workable?

The reason I ask is because of the "tension loss" issue. I realize it probably wouldn't be that hard to replace a simple strip of metal, but if all you had to do was back a screw out an 1/8th of a turn, it'd solve the "tension loss" issue.

If it won't work, mebbe some feedback as to why.....I really like the idea and like your setup, but seeing as you are contemplating adding a spring, there's got to be a good brainstorming session that could/would solve that so it wouldn't even be an issue.

If not a screw, what about a spring pickup, kinda like they use on the bottom of a slot car to keep the contact between car and metal strips?

mahuti · « **Reply #27 on:** March 23, 2004, 01:42:34 pm »

I think the screw idea would be very difficult to execute. At all.

A vibration might cause one or more of the screwheads to separate, you would lose the connection. With a leaf switch type connection, you won't lose connection based on small vibrations or jarring. Something involving just springs & screwheads might work as well. I don't really see the leaf switch tension being that great of a problem, yet. Mine haven't had any problems, but the springs might help over time. I might have used springs if I could think of an easy & lasting way to mount them.

I have something in my mind that might cure any tension problems... a different method with the same results. It will take me some time to think it through, though. I don't know if it is going to work. I think there needs to be some type of leaf / spring involved in any type of configuration like this.

GGKoul · « **Reply #28 on:** March 23, 2004, 02:09:58 pm »

Mahuti

I presently have a 4 player panel directly wired to an IPAC4.

Call me crazy. But I want to build 3 other panels.
One - 2 rotaries & Trackball
Two - Dual joysticks for 2 player with 6 buttons each
Three - Driving panel

And I like the I dont have to connect any wires with your interface. Basically I can just drop a different panel in and play.

Is there a particular type of screws or metal that I have to use? As I just want to confirm the parts I need to buy.

hyiu · « **Reply #29 on:** March 23, 2004, 02:31:38 pm »

this has been discussed before.... wayyyyy before...
when I first visit this site.... (that's.... hmmm... I donno how long ago...)

anyway.... there's actually a industrial "switch" for this type of application.... and yes.... with up to lik 96 contacts...

I don't have the site.... (but I remember that 96 wire conatct switch is expensive....)

its almost like.... you know... your palm has a standing station.... (its like those switch....)
you put your "male" part in it and applies some pressure... (which can be done by the clamp...) and you instantly get contact.... and its industrial strength... (which means it can handle all these opening and closing....

I'm trying to dig into the old pages to see if I can find that thread....

GGKoul · « **Reply #30 on:** March 24, 2004, 01:22:26 am »

Did you happen tp find that old post?

hyiu · « **Reply #31 on:** March 24, 2004, 09:36:29 am »

still no luck in finding that post.... $:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$

MameMaster! · « **Reply #32 on:** March 24, 2004, 01:31:45 pm »

...very cool ideas getting floated here.

You guys better print it out as "proof" of your ideas.

For someone enterprising...this may be an innovative kit idea for a build your own swapable panel set (ex. you provide the connections/parts).

Good Luck...it's fun to see these ideas!

GamingGreg · « **Reply #33 on:** March 24, 2004, 02:48:40 pm »

Cool idea. Definiately cheaper than using a bunch of "Jamb Tacs" together. I imagine a similar idea could be used for those trying to make "modular", instead of swappable panels.

Also you might want to build in some redundant grounds into your design as well (on opposite ends). That way if one ground contact is lost the other (or others) would still be there. As you know, loosing contact on one button will cause just that button to fail, but loosing the one ground will cause the whole panel to fail. Maybe, your planning on doing this already, but in case you aren't I'd recommend doing that.

Good luck on the project! It looks great so far.

mahuti · « **Reply #34 on:** March 24, 2004, 03:10:40 pm »

That's a good suggestion.

I think it would be great if someone built some industrialized version of this. I think it's completely doable.

A strip of plastic with a leaf & some wires, another strip of plastic with a bunch of screws. Pretty simple.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #35 on:** March 24, 2004, 03:12:52 pm »

Also take note..

You will need to recreate one side MANY times. So whatever solution you come up with... make sure that the control panel side is pretty easy and/or cheap.

I LOVE the idea. I was thinking that you might want to have the control panel part a standard part (like a 12 position screw terminal or something) so you can add more without having to worry about configuring it... or how to get them all to match up just perfect.

Demon-Seed · « **Reply #36 on:** March 24, 2004, 03:19:20 pm »

I would like to take my cp and wire it to a swappable type plug but then into a switchbox of some sort so that I can use one singls control panel for many platforms. ie) IPAC, XBOX, Dreamcast etc.

Does anyone have links and instruction on how to make these swappable control panels? I am sure it would work for my cause as well..... looking for exact how too's

thanks in advance
Jim

Searcher7 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 24, 2004, 04:03:52 pm »

I solved all these "control panel swap" problems over a year ago, when I developed my "Quick-swap" control panel system for use with my Joust cabinet, which has a Multi-Williams installed.(I'm still working on the custom cabinet-art).

Last year when I last posted to this site, I touched on the "Quick-swap" in a thread titled "Connectors for swappable control panels" by "b3atmania".

In order to create this, I had to redesign my joust control panel into *two* parts. The base which is on a long hinge, and the top portion which has the controls.(I used oak, and had to make the control panel angled instead of curved at the top portion nearest the player, because of the mechanics involved.

Anyway, for the contacts I cut 1/4 inch wide by 1 inch long strips of Phosphor-bronze(CA 544), and I used nylon as a hard backing. I carved slots into one side of the nylon blocks(for each of the 56 hand made contacts), and used the rubber of a bike innertube as a backing under the part of the strips that make contact with the opposite strips that are postioned inside the control panel base which swings down.(If you have a Joust, Robotron, or StarGate cabinet, you'll know what I'm talking about.

The first half of each of the 56 contacts is positioned in it's own slot which I carved in the nylon. There is a lead screwed into each strip at that location. The part of the strip that bends around the corner of the nylon is the part that makes contact with the cabinet strips that are positioned inside the base of the hinged control panel that is "permanently" connected to the cabinet.

So when the top part of the control panel is positioned into place on the hinged based, all connections are made.

With the "Quick-swap", I can swap any number of control panel tops onto and off of my cabinet fast, because I use two door knob latches that allow me to twist a knob, which I located underneath the bottom part of the control panel base, to unlock the control panel so that it can swing down and allow me to swap to whatever control panel top I want to put in.

Getting the tolerances right was the toughest part of this project, and I still have more work to do.

Anyway, that is the basics of what I did. One day I'll have to create a good write-up with pics to explain how it is done.

The "Quick-swap" is almost as "revolutionary" as my muliti-sticktor invention which is simple by comparison.

But I won't get into the details of that one. :-)

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Nannuu · « **Reply #38 on:** March 24, 2004, 04:20:11 pm »

Quote from: Stingray on March 23, 2004, 12:22:22 pm

I was thinking you could just lay down a strip of rubber and then lay your leafs across that. I'm sure one bike inner tube would provide more than enough material.

-S

Or if you need more flexure than that and want it cheap you could buy a couple Nerf balls and cut them up. You can glue it as small cubes underneath each leaf. That would keep it from becoming deformed. Or cut up some plastic bottles/milk jugs and screw the pieces behind the leaf for support.

I'm not sure what the cost is but you really should be able to find some metal that does not become deformed. ALL metal exhibits some elasticity without deformation. The stress-strain curve for a given metal will tell you but then you'd have to take all kinds of measurements for the parts you have and your deflection, then the math <blah>. Might just be easier to buy a bunch of different metal pieces and give them a try, or get a Nerf ball.

Nannuu · « **Reply #39 on:** March 24, 2004, 04:26:51 pm »

Doh, typed at the same time! Or you could just use the parts that Searcher7 references above.....


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