How Do I Connect External Speakers to Rowe CD100 Bubbler?

[cqlink]

As the Subject bar suggests, can anyone tell me how to connect a pair of external speakers to my Rowe CD-100?

I see where the taps are but not sure how to connect the two wires from each external speaker (if that's how it's done).  I've plugged a Bluetooth device to the RCA jacks in the compartment above the amp.

I realize this is likely asked 20x a year.  Thanks in advance for help

[Ken Layton]

Speaker connections are detailed in the Field Service Manual set (volumes 1 & 2) which should be located in a dark blue plastic pouch inside the jukebox.

External speakers connect to the terminal strips on the "output transformer package" assembly.

[cqlink]

Speaker connections are detailed in the Field Service Manual set (volumes 1 & 2) which should be located in a dark blue plastic pouch inside the jukebox.

External speakers connect to the terminal strips on the "output transformer package" assembly.

Thanks Ken,

I plan to run two 8-ohm speakers in series back to the amp.  I think the speakers need to be 70v (or less?)

As my jukebox sits,  everything is stock.  Violet wire is connected to E7 left channel tap.  Pink wire is connected to the E7 right channel tap.  Black wire is on the E1 left channel tap.

Would I simply connect the (-) wire from the last speaker in the series to either channel E1 (common) tap and the (+) wire from the same speaker to one of the other open taps based on the power I want to provide them?  I.E,  the (+) wire from the last speaker to say,  one of the E3 taps?

[cqlink]

I've also noted many speakers have adjustable tap settings.  Thinking of adding 2 - 4 of these speakers in my ceiling.

https://www.amazon.com/Rockville-DCS8T-Commercial-Ceiling-Business/dp/B08BLNJ9XR/ref=sr_1_20?dchild=1&keywords=2x2%27+drop+ceiling+speaker+8+ohm&qid=1615843509&sr=8-20

[Ken Layton]

70 volt (a.k.a. "high impedance") speaker wiring is different than 8 ohm (a.k.a. "low impedance") speaker wiring.

Rowe's amplifiers don't like anything less than 4 ohm impedance speaker loads lest you damage the amplifier. Remember: Never never never connect low impedance speakers to the 70 volt terminals on the output transformer package. It's like a dead short to the amplifier.

When I worked for an operator with over 100 jukes on the route, many locations were taverns or restaurants which had existing 70 volt ceiling speakers they wanted connected to our jukebox. Depending on the number of 70 volt ceiling speakers will give you an idea of how much lower you must set the jukebox speakers to prevent exceding the amplifier wattage available.

Rowe's amplifier is 250 watts (in reality two channels of 125 watts each). So for each channel you do not ever want to excede 125 watts or even come close to it. As an example, many of our locations had 4 of the 70 volt speakers on each channel. If the wattage taps on the 70 volt speaker's transformer were all set to 10 watts that would equal 40 watts total. I would set the jukebox's internal speaker taps (on the output transformer package to E3 (that would be roughly 50 watts going to the jukebox internal speakers). So 50 watts plus 40 watts equals 90 watts (perfectly safe for the amplifier and should give you even sound coverage in your room).

Also, be advised to check your local electrical regulations regarding speaker wiring. Here in Washington state, if you do your own speaker wiring in residential or commercial buildings, you now need to be a fully licensed electrician (or use one who is) for "high voltage" (a.k.a. 70 volt) speaker wiring or get a permit for "low voltage" (a.k.a. 8 ohm) speaker wiring. It never used to be that way, but government now regulates who can hook up speakers. That's why I don't do it any more.

[cqlink]

70 volt (a.k.a. "high impedance") speaker wiring is different than 8 ohm (a.k.a. "low impedance") speaker wiring.

Rowe's amplifiers don't like anything less than 4 ohm impedance speaker loads lest you damage the amplifier. Remember: Never never never connect low impedance speakers to the 70 volt terminals on the output transformer package. It's like a dead short to the amplifier.

When I worked for an operator with over 100 jukes on the route, many locations were taverns or restaurants which had existing 70 volt ceiling speakers they wanted connected to our jukebox. Depending on the number of 70 volt ceiling speakers will give you an idea of how much lower you must set the jukebox speakers to prevent exceding the amplifier wattage available.

Rowe's amplifier is 250 watts (in reality two channels of 125 watts each). So for each channel you do not ever want to excede 125 watts or even come close to it. As an example, many of our locations had 4 of the 70 volt speakers on each channel. If the wattage taps on the 70 volt speaker's transformer were all set to 10 watts that would equal 40 watts total. I would set the jukebox's internal speaker taps (on the output transformer package to E3 (that would be roughly 50 watts going to the jukebox internal speakers). So 50 watts plus 40 watts equals 90 watts (perfectly safe for the amplifier and should give you even sound coverage in your room).

Also, be advised to check your local electrical regulations regarding speaker wiring. Here in Washington state, if you do your own speaker wiring in residential or commercial buildings, you now need to be a fully licensed electrician (or use one who is) for "high voltage" (a.k.a. 70 volt) speaker wiring or get a permit for "low voltage" (a.k.a. 8 ohm) speaker wiring. It never used to be that way, but government now regulates who can hook up speakers. That's why I don't do it any more.

Great feedback Ken.  highly appreciated.

That said,  If I'm understanding correctly,  I'll move the internal jukebox speaker wires from the E7 tap to the E3 tap for each channel. 

If I use the speakers noted via the link above, I'll adjust the dial on each to say,  10 watts. 

I'll have the (+) and (-) ends of the speaker wire from both speakers running back to the jukebox. 

Connect the (-) end to one of the E1 taps and the (+) end to the E4 or E5 tap inside the jukebox?

[Ken Layton]

If you use 70 volt speakers, they connect to the terminals marked 70 volts in the jukebox. You never connect 70 volt speakers to the "E" terminals.

[cqlink]

If you use 70 volt speakers, they connect to the terminals marked 70 volts in the jukebox. You never connect 70 volt speakers to the "E" terminals.

Thanks again, sir.  I didn't see dedicated 70v terminals in my jukebox (Antique Apparatus Bubbler/ Rowe-AMI CD100) but I'll recheck. 

[Ken Layton]

This drawing from the CD100 volume 1 field service manual shows the location of the 70 volt speaker terminals.

[cqlink]

This drawing from the CD100 volume 1 field service manual shows the location of the 70 volt speaker terminals.

Perfect!  Thanks Ken

[Ken Layton]

The 70 volt speaker terminal strip allows you to hook the 70 volt speakers up either as mono or stereo. In many of our locations we had which had ceiling speakers, we generally connected the ceiling 70 volt speakers as mono. Quite frequently this was because the existing speaker wiring was already wired as mono. No sense in wasting time stringing more wires to do stereo.

[cqlink]

The 70 volt speaker terminal strip allows you to hook the 70 volt speakers up either as mono or stereo. In many of our locations we had which had ceiling speakers, we generally connected the ceiling 70 volt speakers as mono. Quite frequently this was because the existing speaker wiring was already wired as mono. No sense in wasting time stringing more wires to do stereo.

Switching direction because it appears most 70v transformer speakers have somewhat poor sound quality.  I'd like to use two, 8ohm PolkMC80 speakers.  They handle 100W.

Bruce at A&B Jukebox advised me to move the E7 wire to E5.  Both common speaker wires to E1 tap and the (+) speaker wire to E4 tap.

Any issues with this?

Can I run speakers parallel in this configuration?

Thanks!

[cqlink]

For those following,  according to electricians at a local shop the response to my last question regarding the switch to the two, 8-ohm speakers,  is to move the internal,  E7 wires from both channels to the respective E5 or E6 tap.  Leave the E1 jukebox wire at E1.

The (-) wires from the 8-ohm speakers go to the E1 tap.

The (+) wires from the 8-ohm speakers go to the E4 tap (or E5,  if you move the R and L internal speaker wires to the E6 tap).

Watch the overload lights on the amp and adjust (if necessary).

Keep in mind,  I'm only using two Polk Audio MC80 8" external speakers.  I'm not an expert but you'll likely need to run more than two 8-ohm speakers in series.  The experts here can chime in if this is accurate.
 
As I'm not as experience as many are on this site,  I'll post pictures when I've finished the installation.

Cheers

[Ken Layton]

Keep in mind Rowe amplifiers do not like loads of less than 4 ohms (4 ohms is as low as you should go). When wiring speakers in parallel, you divide the impedance in half with each speaker added. Examples: two 8 ohm speakers in parallel = 4 ohms and two 4 ohm speakers in parallel = 2 ohms (the amplifier is going to fry). Always try to keep the speakers you use to the same impedance (i.e. all 4 ohm or all 8 ohm) to make your impedance and wiring calculations easiest.

Different impedances connect to different terminals on the speaker terminal strip. When running external low impedance speakers, I always drop the internal jukebox speakers to no more than tap E5.

Also be aware that many speakers sold today may say "8 ohm Compatible" on their specs or box. This is a fancy way of saying they are NOT really 8 ohms but are really 6 ohms. So if you parallel two of them, it would make a 3 ohm load on the amplifier and damage it.

When we had to use external low impedance speakers with the jukebox internal speakers, I would wire them in "series-parallel" combinations. This was so I could present either a 4 ohm or 8 ohm or 16 ohm load to the amplifier. Series-parallel wiring can get complicated plus running tons of additional wires.

[cqlink]

Keep in mind Rowe amplifiers do not like loads of less than 4 ohms (4 ohms is as low as you should go). When wiring speakers in parallel, you divide the impedance in half with each speaker added. Examples: two 8 ohm speakers in parallel = 4 ohms and two 4 ohm speakers in parallel = 2 ohms (the amplifier is going to fry). Always try to keep the speakers you use to the same impedance (i.e. all 4 ohm or all 8 ohm) to make your impedance and wiring calculations easiest.

Different impedances connect to different terminals on the speaker terminal strip. When running external low impedance speakers, I always drop the internal jukebox speakers to no more than tap E5.

Also be aware that many speakers sold today may say "8 ohm Compatible" on their specs or box. This is a fancy way of saying they are NOT really 8 ohms but are really 6 ohms. So if you parallel two of them, it would make a 3 ohm load on the amplifier and damage it.

When we had to use external low impedance speakers with the jukebox internal speakers, I would wire them in "series-parallel" combinations. This was so I could present either a 4 ohm or 8 ohm or 16 ohm load to the amplifier. Series-parallel wiring can get complicated plus running tons of additional wires.

Thanks Ken. I agree.  I'm going to play it safe an run a series-parallel connection.  The runs to the two speakers are only 25' and 35' feet.  I'm going to use 14-gauge wire. 

Thoughts?

[Ken Layton]

14 gauge would be fine. It's what we used when we installed external jukebox speakers. We did the same in the movie theaters when we ran surround speaker wiring.

[Johnsondouglas77]

Hello have A Rowe R88  and tried hooking up a dual volume control with the 4 wires i moved the jumper down to the 1st and 2nd pins on the top of the amp cover i have 4 extension speakers that are connected to the e2 and e4 pins. Would like to separate the jukebox speakers on one of the dials and the extension speakers on the other dial. my problem is ithat now the volume controls work the left and right channels only not what I wanted what can I do to to get this to work good me any help would be appreciated thanks. Doug.

[lilshawn]

that's how the dual volume works. it separates the left and right channels to a zone 1 (the "left" channel) and zone 2 (the "right" channel)... with independent volume controls for each "zone"

the "E" taps only limit the output power to the speakers through the large transformers. they don't provide any additional zones of volume control.

if you wished to keep stereo sound AND have an additional zone to separately control, you'd have to add an additional amp. otherwise place all your speakers you would like controlled by 1 volume control on the left side, and the other speakers you want to control by the other control on the right.

be sure to respect proper speaker loadings. you don't want less than 4 ohms on each left and right channel or you'll blow the amp.

[cqlink]

that's how the dual volume works. it separates the left and right channels to a zone 1 (the "left" channel) and zone 2 (the "right" channel)... with independent volume controls for each "zone"

the "E" taps only limit the output power to the speakers through the large transformers. they don't provide any additional zones of volume control.

if you wished to keep stereo sound AND have an additional zone to separately control, you'd have to add an additional amp. otherwise place all your speakers you would like controlled by 1 volume control on the left side, and the other speakers you want to control by the other control on the right.

be sure to respect proper speaker loadings. you don't want less than 4 ohms on each left and right channel or you'll blow the amp.

Update:  Right side of the amp blew and I fried the driver boards while trying to repair it.  I had to pay for another rebuild by A&B Jukebox. 

Can anyone tell me how and where to connect the speaker wires from the two 8-ohm external speakers?  I’d like to have the internal speakers at the E1 and E5 taps on both sides.

Where and how to I connect the external speakers wires?

Bruce at A&B Jukebox said I need to be sure I REVERSE the left side external speaker leads to ensure I don’t blow the transistors again.  I know this has to do with ensuring ohms are correct but I’m not really sure what he’s referring to or why I need to do this.

This said,  I’d like decent power and need to know what’s the best tap placement for the external speakers wires.

Thanks!

[cqlink]

that's how the dual volume works. it separates the left and right channels to a zone 1 (the "left" channel) and zone 2 (the "right" channel)... with independent volume controls for each "zone"

the "E" taps only limit the output power to the speakers through the large transformers. they don't provide any additional zones of volume control.

if you wished to keep stereo sound AND have an additional zone to separately control, you'd have to add an additional amp. otherwise place all your speakers you would like controlled by 1 volume control on the left side, and the other speakers you want to control by the other control on the right.

be sure to respect proper speaker loadings. you don't want less than 4 ohms on each left and right channel or you'll blow the amp.

Update:  Right side of the amp blew and I fried the driver boards while trying to repair it.  I had to pay for another rebuild by A&B Jukebox. 

Can anyone tell me how and where to connect the speaker wires from the two 8-ohm external speakers?  I’d like to have the internal speakers at the E1 and E5 taps on both sides.

Where and how to I connect the external speakers wires?

Bruce at A&B Jukebox said I need to be sure I REVERSE the left side external speaker leads to ensure I don’t blow the transistors again.  I know this has to do with ensuring ohms are correct but I’m not really sure what he’s referring to or why I need to do this.

This said,  I’d like decent power and need to know what’s the best tap placement for the external speakers wires.

Thanks!

From what I’ve reviewed,  if I’m not mistaken,  Bruce at A&B Jukebox is suggesting I wire one of the external speakers out of phase to insure I have correct impedance?

Does it matter which side (L or R) I wire out of phase?

Does it matter if I wire out of phase at the tap terminal or at the spreader?

Can anyone let me know what taps to use for best sound without blowing the amp again?

Cheers!

[lilshawn]

the cd100 amp is wired a little weird, i think its a holdout from the old record days where the old stereo needle cartridge was out of phase on one channel as a compatibility holdout from mono cartridges...so you can often get better sound by reversing one channel, as it was all done internally on the juke, (you can see negative wires on positive terminals in the jukebox.) but not reversed on the output taps. it's honestly dumb.

for two 8 ohm speakers, one on the left and one on the right... move both left and right pink and purple wires of your internal speakers down to like E4 and place your 8 ohm external speakers + on the left and right E7 tap and the - onto the left and right E1. you should only have one speaker on each side. you can test the sound as it is, then reverse the positive and negative on one speaker to see the sound difference. the bass will no longer cancel out and will sound boomier.

this should get you down to proper load.

[cqlink]

the cd100 amp is wired a little weird, i think its a holdout from the old record days where the old stereo needle cartridge was out of phase on one channel as a compatibility holdout from mono cartridges...so you can often get better sound by reversing one channel, as it was all done internally on the juke, (you can see negative wires on positive terminals in the jukebox.) but not reversed on the output taps. it's honestly dumb.

for two 8 ohm speakers, one on the left and one on the right... move both left and right pink and purple wires of your internal speakers down to like E4 and place your 8 ohm external speakers + on the left and right E7 tap and the - onto the left and right E1. you should only have one speaker on each side. you can test the sound as it is, then reverse the positive and negative on one speaker to see the sound difference. the bass will no longer cancel out and will sound boomier.
S
this should get you down to proper load.

Thanks again!

[cqlink]

Sounds great!

[cqlink]

Back again (unfortunately)

After dropping another $350 to send my CD100 250W amp to A&B Jukebox / Bruce Wentworth for ANOTHER rebuild,  I got it back and I wired my jukebox exactly as we discussed here.  Very conservative.  By no means was I maxing out the power.  No red overload lights.

Played fine until a few days ago.  Now the left side is distorting

I was standing in front of the jukebox and just before the left side speakers distorted,  I heard the volume drop/  loss of power.

Does anyone have any clue as to what's going on?  I really enjoy my jukebox but I'm going bust on amplifier rebuilds!

BTW, I think Mr. Wentworth may be in poor health.  I see he shut down A&B Jukebox for an undetermined time period.  Even though I'm into two rebuilds,  I think he's a good guy.

[lilshawn]

amp transistors are EXTREMELY hard to find, as counterfeited transistors are being sold everywhere. ive had to order 3 different sets 3 times from 3 different places (including digikey) to get a good set.

i would double check to make sure you dont have a shorted speaker or something going on with the crossover to be sure. if you've had it professionally rebuilt... i would look into it a little more.

[cqlink]

amp transistors are EXTREMELY hard to find, as counterfeited transistors are being sold everywhere. ive had to order 3 different sets 3 times from 3 different places (including digikey) to get a good set.

i would double check to make sure you dont have a shorted speaker or something going on with the crossover to be sure. if you've had it professionally rebuilt... i would look into it a little more.

Yes.  I think you're right.  Something else is causing the distortion from the right-side external speaker.  Can you provide insight how to check for a shorted speaker?

I sent the amp back to A&B Jukebox.  They put it on a stand and let it play for close to two weeks.  No distortion.  Everything checked fine.
They used a scope and couldn't find anything wrong.  All transistors and bias boards were replaced during the second rebuild.  I got it back the other day and everything sounded great for about 4-5 hours then the right side external speaker started to distort again.

Jeremy at A&B Jukebox asked if the internal jukebox speakers sounded distorted.  Honestly,  because of the poor sound quality coming out of the internal speakers,  I couldn't tell.

I don't know if it will help but I'm going to figure out how to rewire the external speakers in "series-parallel" configuration (if anyone can tell me the correct procedure,  please advise).

This has been a total bummer.  I used my jukebox a lot and now I hate to turn it on because it sounds so bad.  That said,  thanks to everyone trying to help me figure it out!

[cqlink]

Here's my first question regarding rewiring the external speakers in a "series-parallel" config:

On one of the external speakers (speaker 1),  I run the red (+) wire back to the amp.  The speaker 1 black (-) wire will run to the red (+) terminal on the other external speaker (speaker 2).  The black (-) wire on speaker two gets run back to the amp.

This leave only two wires,  the (+) wire from speaker one and the (-) wire from speaker two going back to the amp.  Obviously, there are only two wires going back to the amp whereas previously,  there were four wires (two from each external speaker) running back to the two sets of taps.

What/ how do I connect the two speaker wires running back to the taps and what taps should I connect them to?

Thanks in advance!

[cqlink]

Q2:  In my description above,  am I actually wiring them parallel?  The external speakers are 8-ohm Polk Audio installed in my basement ceiling.

[cqlink]

The first thing I tried was removing internal speaker wires from the taps.  I played a CD with only external speakers attached.  While the wasn't terribly distorted,  overall sound quality was poor.  The sound sounded on the verge of distorting.  Very "scratchy."

Next,  I removed the external speaker wiring and connected the internal speakers to the ground (E1) and E5 taps.  The sound was fairly clean and very acceptable.  No distortion.

Considering Jeremy at A&B Jukebox had the amp on the stand for two weeks and couldn't find a problem,  I'm guessing I just don't know how to wire the external,  8-ohm Polk speakers.

[cqlink]

So.....after 2.5 years of fussing with this nonsense,  I believe I've discerned the difference between series and parallel wiring and I may be a bit better at understanding impedance.  That said,  for anyone following,  here's the latest:

I've series-wired my external speakers.  It took me 1.5 hours to get it right but everything sounds good.

Internal Pink and Violet/ Purple speaker (+) wires are connected to E4 right and left taps.  Internal (-) wire is connected to E1 tap.

Right side EXTERNAL negative (-) wire is connected to E1 tap.  Right side EXTERNAL (+) wire is connected to E6 tap.  NOTE:  I'm only using two wires - one negative and one positive).

External (-) wire from the E1 tap is connected to the (-) end of the RIGHT side external speaker.

External (+) wire from the E6 tap is connected to the LEFT side external speaker.

A separate wire is connected to the (+) end of the RIGHT side external speaker.  I used the SAME wire and connected it to the (-) end of the LEFT side external speaker.

I'm still using the two 8-ohm Polk speaker so I should be at 16-ohm impedance which this amp should tolerate nicely.

Of course,  since the amp bench tested fine when it was sent back to A&B Jukebox for the third time,  I'm guessing when I ran (+) and (-) wires from both external speakers back to the right and left side of the internal tap board on my previous attempt(s),  it resulted in some kind of low (4-ohm or less) impedance issue.  As mentioned,  the speakers would sound great for a day or a week and then begin to permanently distort.

A&B Jukebox thought a weak weld somewhere in the amp may have resulted in overheating/ distortion but again,  the amp was on the bench playing for 10-days and it wouldn't distort. 

Interestingly,  on this attempt,  to series-wire the external speakers,  I actually PARALLEL wired them.  I'm guessing I dropped impedance on the 8-ohm speakers to 4-ohms (or less).  Obviously,  I didn't leave the speakers wired this way but I thought they sounded better wired in parallel than they do in series.

If you're able to make sense out of all of this,  God Bless You!  As with the case of my Detroit Lions,  I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[lilshawn]

the one thing you have to realize with rowe jukes is that the speaker tap outputs are PARALLEL with the internal juke speakers.

Speakers you add onto the jukebox ideally would be higher ohm (like 8 ohms) to keep the load in a safe range

too low of an ohm load (like with improperly wired 6 ohm speakers or even just attaching 4 or 2 ohm speakers) and you pop the outputs

i'm glad we got away from this convoluted class a amp setup and now have constant current amps now... cause this was some bull puckey... and the manual didn't help either. it was designed in a time where the thought that the reason the amps where blowing up all the time was because there where too many "speaker watts" attached to the amp... and not the fact that you had almost a dead short going across the outputs.

[cqlink]

the one thing you have to realize with rowe jukes is that the speaker tap outputs are PARALLEL with the internal juke speakers.

Speakers you add onto the jukebox ideally would be higher ohm (like 8 ohms) to keep the load in a safe range

too low of an ohm load (like with improperly wired 6 ohm speakers or even just attaching 4 or 2 ohm speakers) and you pop the outputs

i'm glad we got away from this convoluted class a amp setup and now have constant current amps now... cause this was some bull puckey... and the manual didn't help either. it was designed in a time where the thought that the reason the amps where blowing up all the time was because there where too many "speaker watts" attached to the amp... and not the fact that you had almost a dead short going across the outputs.

Yes.  It’s been over a month and no distortion although sound from external speakers aren’t as loud as they were.  I have the internal speakers on Tap 4 and external on Tap 7 for sound balance.

The subwoofer is a Pyle Driver MH1275.  I always liked Klipsch subs and bought one but it sounded lousy when I installed it my box.  I’m thinking there’s not enough power to it from the amp.  Absolutely no punch or bottom.

I’m not convinced the other internal speakers are of good quality as well.

Any thoughts on upgrading them?

Thanks for the help.  Overall,  my box is sounding much better and no blown amp or distortion!