Should I keep my CRT?

[rbbauer00]

I recently found a Simpsons Arcade 4-player cabinet.  The cabinet needs some overhaul, but all the electronics are in good shape.  I bought it with the original intent of gutting it, putting in a MAME PC and swapping the CRT for an LCD.

The CRT that came with it is bright, with an excellent picture.  This makes me wonder if it's worth keeping.  I have emulators installed from MAME all the way up to Dolphin and PS2.  I realize that a Wii or PS2 game is not going to look good on a CRT, but a MAME game will look better on the CRT.  So where should I compromise?

What is the highest generation of games that will run and look good on this monitor?  Can I run NES, SNES, or even N64 ROMs?
Also, what is the difference between getting a J-Pac and an arcade VGA card?  Which do I need to connect the PC to the CRT?

[DudeRegular]

Yes keep the CRT. All those games will look good on it. Remember even when the PS2 came out, the vast majority of tv's in homes were still CRT. I personally don't care to play most of those games using a stand up arcade cabinet, but they can look just fine on a tube. Do you have the simpsons boards and stuff still? You may want to consider a restore vs a conversion depending on the work required and cost.

[rbbauer00]

Yes, the Simpsons board is in the cab and works great. I want to keep the stock look of the Simpsons cabinet. The marquee looks good except for some barely noticeable "sunburn" from the fluorescent light behind it. The rest of the artwork is badly damaged and will need replacing.   I'll probably even use the regular Simpsons CPO artwork, but just use my own custom button layout.


How do I connect the CRT to the PC?  Can I use a DVI to VGA converter, then just run the individual RGBHV leads to the corresponding pins on the CRT board?
I've heard it is difficult getting modern PC's to run at low enough res/freq.  Can I damage my CRT by connecting it to an incompatible video source?

[pbj]

Oh jeezus

[Token]

So where should I compromise?

Keep the monitor in the cab and use it for arcade games.

[vwalbridge]

I bought it with the original intent of gutting it, putting in a MAME PC and swapping the CRT for an LCD.

Excuse me?

[yotsuya]

Obligatory "it's his money, he can do what he wants" posts to follow...

[yotsuya]

So where should I compromise?

Keep the monitor in the cab and use it for arcade games.

This.

[Malenko]

I'll bite. Where do you live?  Can I buy and restore that simpsons so you dont destroy it?

I have a NAMCO cab that would be great for MAME conversion and theres even plenty of room up top for an LCD marquee

[burn_654]

Simpsons cabs are sought after...I would consider restoring it as just a simpsons cab or use it to swap between a few 4 player jamma boards. I think people here would be more receptive to conversion if you posted some pics of the condition. In the end it is your cab.

If you do want to convert it...I would keep the crt if it's in good shape. You need to look into crt_emudriver and GroovyMame of which there's a forum here. That combined with a custom cable (or a jpac) will get you great results - arcade games in their native resolution/refresh in mame using certain ranges of Radeon video cards. I really like it - super authentic to the games with no tearing. But it takes some research and thought - if you aren't in love with wanting an authentic crt it can have its own troubleshooting/considerations.

[lilshawn]

I realize that a Wii or PS2 game is not going to look good on a CRT

uhm... you realize when those systems came out... CRT probably accounted for 70% of all televisions right?

[jtslade]

BYOAC gets a lot of flack for posts that start like this.. It's refreshing to see everyone chiming in with "save the CRT" and "keep it original"..

Simpsons and TMNT cabs here in south Florida get crazy money down here


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[yotsuya]

I know, right? There's a big difference between finding a gutted cabinet and turning into a MAME cabinet, and taking a perfectly working cabinet and stripping stuff out just because you want something different.

[vwalbridge]

Should I keep my CRT?

There is a gentleman on BYOAC restoring a Simpsons cab right now. Perhaps you should ask him what he thinks about that.

[rbbauer00]

For the record, I am keeping the simpsons cabinet as a simpsons cabinet - Please don't look at me like I just killed a bunny rabbit or something.  I left out the story of how I came into possession of this cab to try to keep the focus on the CRT.  My original intent was to find an empty or dead cabinet, but I couldn't settle on what artwork I wanted or a control layout.  I started looking for cabinets and came across this Simpsons cab.  The price was about a fourth of any other posting of a Simpsons cabinet that I could find.  This being one of my favorite games from my childhood, I immediately decided I wanted to restore it.  It needs all new artwork and some minor wood repair.  I will be doing a custom CPO, but will also restore and keep the original CPO so that it can be converted back to stock later if I want.  I will be ordering reproduction Simpsons side art, CPO art, and Marquee. I am not doing anything to this cabinet that will permanently alter it. 

I still want a multi-arcade, though.  I have only space in my house for 1 cabinet, and the Simpsons is not the only game I like to play. Many console games are more comfortably played on a couch with a hand-held controller, but I still think a good many are playable standing at a cabinet.  Plus, I just like the novelty of having an arcade machine and I've seen too many homemade cabinets that look exactly that - homemade.

My question is more about what to expect from the CRT.  I have never owned an arcade machine before.  All I know about these CRT's is that they run on much lower resolutions and frequencies than TV's, computer monitors, and LCD's, and if you touch them the wrong way, they will kill you.  I already have a PC built for a multi-arcade with a decent graphics card that will apparently have to be scrapped for a VGA card designed for 15hz, low res CRT.

I'm sure there is a way to "dual-boot" this so that I can toggle between the arcade board and the PC, but I figured that question should be asked in a different forum.

[Malenko]

All I know about these CRT's is that they run on much lower resolutions and frequencies than TV's, computer monitors, and LCD's, and if you touch them the wrong way, they will kill you.

You can get a tri-sync arcade monitor that will run all the standard arcade resolutions, the goofy medium res, and still let you have everything else run in 640x480.

No member of this forum has died messing with a CRT, so get that "die if you touch them" ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- out of your head. The only remotely dangerous thing is discharging the monitor / messing with the anode cap. Something you'll probably never even have to do.

The major reason for not MAMEing a Simpson's cab is that you are probably never going to play 4 players. I know this because I and many other have built 4 player boxes and the amount of the time 1 or 2 players are on it FAR exceeds how frequently 3 or 4 players are on it. You are better off with a generic cab, but if you got the cab you want to use, then go for it. You should totally post pix of the cab though, we love pictures here.

[rbbauer00]

So if I wanted to use this CRT on my PC, what do I need?  I've seen all kinds of devices including J-Pac, VGA-CGA converters, and arcade VGA cards. What do I need to get?

[BuZz880]

I'd recommend the J-PAC for sure.

Then Groovymame/switchres with a compatible ATI card is definitely the way to go. IMO

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[Alaska]

I'd recommend the J-PAC for sure.

Then Groovymame/switchres with a compatible ATI card is definitely the way to go. IMO

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I would agree unless you are dead set on another frontend. I'm pretty happy with HyperSpin running on my CRT, but had a full scale mess of issues trying to get it to work with an ArcadeVGA 5000 card.

The other option is soft15khz. Check out both (15khz is in monitor/video and GroovyMAME has its own page) of those forums on this site for more info.

[P.H.U.]

I recently found a Simpsons Arcade 4-player cabinet.  The cabinet needs some overhaul, but all the electronics are in good shape.  I bought it with the original intent of gutting it, putting in a MAME PC and swapping the CRT for an LCD.

The CRT that came with it is bright, with an excellent picture.  This makes me wonder if it's worth keeping.  I have emulators installed from MAME all the way up to Dolphin and PS2.  I realize that a Wii or PS2 game is not going to look good on a CRT, but a MAME game will look better on the CRT.  So where should I compromise?

What is the highest generation of games that will run and look good on this monitor?  Can I run NES, SNES, or even N64 ROMs?
Also, what is the difference between getting a J-Pac and an arcade VGA card?  Which do I need to connect the PC to the CRT?

Yes, keep the CRT. It is worth it because those old low resolution games look better on the same resolution monitors they were designed to work on. Have you played a DVD on your HD LCD screen lately? Doesn't look good right? That is because DVD's weren't meat to be played on a HD display. You can emulate all the way up to the Dreamcast/PS2 and be in good shape on a CRT.

Don't get an ArcadeVGA. You can do better and for less with a Radeon HD4350 card (~$20 off eBay) and run Calamity's CRT EMU drivers. The cost of doing this adds up so you can also avoid the cost of the J-Pac if you use a different controller PCB. Lots of us use the Xin Mo contoller these days (get it off eBay as well). But then you have to wire the video output off the video card to the monitor. Pretty easy to do and feel free to ask when you get to this point.

LCD's have lag. Getting one that doesn't have bad lag is another expense. So again, more weight to keeping the CRT. Nothing like the glow of phosphors while playing the classics to take you back to that era that has long gone.

[P.H.U.]

My question is more about what to expect from the CRT.  I have never owned an arcade machine before.  All I know about these CRT's is that they run on much lower resolutions and frequencies than TV's, computer monitors, and LCD's, and if you touch them the wrong way, they will kill you.  I already have a PC built for a multi-arcade with a decent graphics card that will apparently have to be scrapped for a VGA card designed for 15hz, low res CRT.

I'm sure there is a way to "dual-boot" this so that I can toggle between the arcade board and the PC, but I figured that question should be asked in a different forum.

What you can expect either way, LCD vs. CRT is it going to sink a lot of time. If you are going solo in this project, removing that CRT isn't going to be easy. Best you just leave it in. If you are worried about safety, you can discharge it before you work on it. If there is Harbor Freight near you, you can buy a long screwdriver, two alligator clips (you'll only need one), some black electrical tape to fashion a tool to do it. That will cost you ~$10. Keep in mind, if you replace it with an LCD, to remove it, you need to discharge it anyway.

Keep your PC the way it is. Don't scrap it. See if you can find a friend that can donate a PC. Look on Craigslist or eBay. Any dual-core 64-bit based PC or better will run all your MAME games just fine. I have an AMD Athlon X2 5600+ that a buddy donated. I bought 8gigs of DDR2 for my other Core 2 Duo based PC, then I loaded the AMD with 4gigs of DDR2. Runs HyperSpin and MAME just fine.

No point dual booting Simpsons and MAME. But yeah, keep the CRT.

[behrmr]

You only need to discharge a CRT monitor if you are repairing it or disassembling it. If you are just unbolting the frame and removing it from a cabinet you don't need to discharge it; just don't pull it out by the anode wire which would be not recommended anyway.   

The CRT is not going to kill you unless you are testing to see if it is on by touching your tongue to the neckboard.  You just need to be careful when adjusting it while on and use the right set of plastic tools that cost like $5.

Should you choose to remove it please make sure that a collector gets it and puts it back in service.

[rbbauer00]

No point dual booting Simpsons and MAME. But yeah, keep the CRT.

I know it's not necessary to dual boot, but I'd kinda like to if it's possible, just to keep the original functionality intact.  Would one of those 2-port JAMMA switchers work?



My plan for this cab is to first restore it to original (or as close as I can get) condition, including original control layout.  I just finished pulling all the internals out so I can start the wood repair.  I will restore the stock control panel and joysticks.  Then I will build a second control panel with a multi-cade layout, trackball, spinner, etc. so not to destroy the original.  Then I will add my PC to run Hyperspin.

[P.H.U.]

It can be done. You just have to plan carefully. The JAMMA switcher will switch between the Simpson's PCB and a J-PAC. If you're not concerned about cost, and it adds up quickly with these things, then go for it. I can see your POV.

I have an MKII cab and am in a similar boat. I have no intention destroying it for MAME. But MAME is the application I am using it for. My cab did not come with an MKII PCB. MKII was replaced with Erghiez. If it still had MKII in it, I would definitely dual boot it like you intend to. Just something about keeping it original and dedicated that is appealing I suppose. But just that subtle difference in that I don't have the MKII PCB, steers me towards just setting it up for MAME. Also, it is rewired all wonky for Ergheiz. I will preserve everything but build a MAME suitable control panel; put the original control panel away inside the cab for safe keeping. With the wiring all wonky, I am going to skip getting a J-PAC and rewiring it for JAMMA. I am just going to wire the PC to the arcade monitor. Power the PC off the distribution block. And control the games with a Xin Mo controller.

Like I said, on the one hand, there is something appealing about keeping it dedicated. I can certainly buy the PCB and do what you are doing. But in the end, I am more gamer than purist. Hence my choices.

[rbbauer00]

If you're not concerned about cost, and it adds up quickly with these things, then go for it. I can see your POV.

Like I said, on the one hand, there is something appealing about keeping it dedicated. I can certainly buy the PCB and do what you are doing. But in the end, I am more gamer than purist. Hence my choices.

I won't say cost isn't a concern, but I am willing to spend what is necessary in order to accomplish my goal.  I'm not up against any deadline, either, so I can just buy a few parts along the way.  Since I'm not sinking a whole lot of cash at once, it doesn't affect the budget as much.  But knowing it should work is very encouraging.  Once I get the original function restored, I will start converting it to MAME, using a J-Pac to keep the original hardware in the cab.  Once I have all that done, the 100 bucks for the 2-way Jamma switch won't be all that bad. Until then, I can just switch it manually.  If I'm totally honest with myself, I doubt I'll ever play the Simpsons on the PCB anyway, since I can just play it on MAME.

I, too, am more of a gamer than a purist.  I started this project so I could play the games I remember from childhood.  I started with the intent of building a cab from scratch.  But since I found this cabinet, I just couldn't pass it up.  I have no intent of selling it, but it's nice to know that I could.

[P.H.U.]

Yeap, just project plan it out. Each of these has a cost and an investment of time:

• Keeping it pure/dedicated from the condition it is in requires cost.
• From there, modifying the cab to allow for MAME is another cost.
• Then adding in the JAMMA switcher is another cost.

Add in the required tools that you need and it increases quite quickly. In my instance, what I am saving is less money than you. But I am saving time. Ultimately for me, it is about playing all the old games and reliving the good times, which is really the goal.