Controls.dat Viewer Released!!!

[Howard_Casto]

for a full news blurb go to:

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/lazarus/

For just the file go here:

*update* this is a new version, which fixes the currently known bugs

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/lazarus/files/johnny5_0.6beta.zip

If you have no clue what I'm talking about, go here:

http://fe.donkeyfly.com

[SirPoonga]

Just incase it isn't noted in the readme or docs (I should go download it before I post this) but HC used the ini file, not the xml.

Go to http://www.fe.donkeyfly.com/controls/supported.php to see what is currently supported.  Check back there to see if you need to update your current ini file.  Eventually the ini file and xml file will be versioned so you will be able to compare versions.  If your favorite games aren't supported please contribute.

[cdbrown]

Off-topic but worth a mention - controls.dat currently supports a total of 1252 roms (401 parents, 851 clones) although the ini file that comes with the viewer isn't the latest.  Well done to Howard for his viewer and also to both Howard and SirPoonga for continuing efforts in controls.dat  

[SirPoonga]

HC, talk to me as soon as you can.  LOTS of bugs to work out.

[MisterB]

Howard-

I've been anxiously awaiting this!  Thanks for all the hard work - your contributions to this forum are always very much appreciated.

Can't wait to get home and take her for a spin...

[nirious]

I looked at that forum for abit and read something about coctail cabs and beta and two player controls and I didn't really get it what it was all about, so can someone plz tell me in about three lines what its about and what it does. thank you

[PacManFan]

I'm sure HC will correct(flame) me if I'm wrong or forgot something, but the Controls.dat project will provide information that frontends will be able to use to display extended information about a game in Mame. Basically, this information is:

-Number of simaltanoeus players
-What do the buttons in each game do? (p1b1 = fire,jump,shoot,etc..)
-What controls are user for each game (4-way, 8-way, analog controller, spinner, trackball,etc..)
-other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting...

What this will do for you:
Now, theoretically (and hopefully soon - practically ), you can design what your control panel looks like from your cabinet  (joysticks,buttons, etc) using a layout editor, and when you use a front end that can read the controls.dat, you will be able to see how to play each game using your control panel, and what controls on YOUR control panel map to the ORIGINAL games' controls.

Hope this helps.

-PMF

[atog]

Can't wait for this!  There is a game called Super Dodgeball that they had at my local arcade when I was in high school.  It was a unique game, and if I remember right it had a joystick and 2 buttons.  Those 2 buttons let you do all kinds of different moves though.

I have tried it in MAME and for the life of me I can't pull off any of the moves I remember from 15 years ago.  Maybe it's just because I am old now and suck, but I am hoping that the controls.dat project fleshes out the controls for Super Dodgeball so I can read up on it and play the game again.

[Minwah]

Can't wait for this!  There is a game called Super Dodgeball that they had at my local arcade when I was in high school.  It was a unique game, and if I remember right it had a joystick and 2 buttons.  Those 2 buttons let you do all kinds of different moves though.

I have tried it in MAME and for the life of me I can't pull off any of the moves I remember from 15 years ago.  Maybe it's just because I am old now and suck, but I am hoping that the controls.dat project fleshes out the controls for Super Dodgeball so I can read up on it and play the game again.

Well controls.dat will tell you what the buttons were labelled as in the arcade, but not neccessarily how to pull off moves.  It might be listed in the Misc details tho...

In this case the control panel is very helpful:

[CM]

and ULTIMATELY this will allow some motivated geek to put little microcontroller-driven-text-readouts by each button on a control panel that say what each button does in a game.

 

(and of course he will mass-produce his solution and sale it to the rest of us at low prices!)

[atog]

dont know where you came up with that thing Minway, but you are the best!

[Jakobud]

Good job HC and Poonga.  I am looking forward to seeing this project implemented into FE's.  I am imagining a day when, using your fav FE, you select a game to play and before the game starts (or while Mame is loading the roms maybe.....) the FE displays an image (that is possibly automatically generated by the FE) that shows a layout of your own personal control panel and explains what buttons are used for that game and what each button does for that game....  Good job guys!

[SirPoonga]

I looked at that forum for abit and read something about coctail cabs and beta and two player controls and I didn't really get it what it was all about, so can someone plz tell me in about three lines what its about and what it does. thank you

Click on the controls.dat project link at the top of the page
http://www.fe.donkeyfly.com/controls/faq.php

[TalkingOctopus]

Can't wait for this!  There is a game called Super Dodgeball that they had at my local arcade when I was in high school.  It was a unique game, and if I remember right it had a joystick and 2 buttons.  Those 2 buttons let you do all kinds of different moves though.

I have tried it in MAME and for the life of me I can't pull off any of the moves I remember from 15 years ago.  Maybe it's just because I am old now and suck, but I am hoping that the controls.dat project fleshes out the controls for Super Dodgeball so I can read up on it and play the game again.

Look at this for all of the moves for Super Dodgeball:

http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/super_dodge_ball_a.txt

[atog]

thanks, that was the first place I looked, ages ago.  That FAQ was never there that I know of, and if it was, it was likely for the Neo Geo version, not the 1986 Technos version that is in MAME.

[Howard_Casto]

Answering some questions.....

The controls.dat project is a project set forth to document real life button labels and controls for games and the inputs that are used to emulate them in mame (and as a result the link between the two).  What I have released is the controls viewer, the first application to use the data from teh database we have been building.  Basically it does it's best to do exactly what pmf said above.  

Btw it's extremely buggy atm, but i still need beta testers.... post your bugs here or at mamehost PLEASE.  


If anyone is willing to write the apps, (which would be easy btw)  all of the things jakobud said are possible.  I'm actually working on blitting to the screen so you can see the controls inside mame as well.  


DK is already prepared for the viewer.  I will post a tutorial on how to get it running shortly at my site.  

I'm sory I haven't been around today.... been a little under the weather.  Hopefully I can answer more questions soon.  

[Howard_Casto]

New version is up... It fixes the file saving errors amoung other things.  

[MisterB]

I know this is still early beta, but I have a feature suggestion.  As Minwah mentioned, sometimes having reference to the original Control Panel is useful as well.  Perhaps you could add the option to "stack" CP images?  For example, show the dymanic layout on the top half of the screen, and the image of the original control panel underneath?

[SirPoonga]

Well controls.dat will tell you what the buttons were labelled as in the arcade, but not neccessarily how to pull off moves.  It might be listed in the Misc details tho...

In this case the control panel is very helpful:

Actually, in that case the instruciton card is very useful

[Minwah]

Actually, in that case the instruciton card is very useful

What do you mean?  I haven't seen an instruction card for the game but the control panel overlay seems to have all you'd need.

[shmokes]

I think he means an instruction card, for Street Fighter for example, that would tell you how to do things like Ken & Ryu's dragon punch, etc.  Not just a button label, but instructions for a combination of stick movements and button presses to achieve a desired outcome.

Controls.dat won't do this, but instruction cards could.

[shmokes]

Hey Minwah,

Is Mamewah set up to use this Controls.dat.  If not, do you have plans to incorporate it any time soon?

[SirPoonga]

I think he means an instruction card, for Street Fighter for example, that would tell you how to do things like Ken & Ryu's dragon punch, etc.  Not just a button label, but instructions for a combination of stick movements and button presses to achieve a desired outcome.

Controls.dat won't do this, but instruction cards could.

Yep.  I wish there would be an instruction card resource like there is a marquee resource.  I collect them as I come across them.  

Controls.dat will just give you what the buttons are labeled.  There may be info on how to playin the misc details.

[Howard_Casto]

I know this is still early beta, but I have a feature suggestion.  As Minwah mentioned, sometimes having reference to the original Control Panel is useful as well.  Perhaps you could add the option to "stack" CP images?  For example, show the dymanic layout on the top half of the screen, and the image of the original control panel underneath?

Actually after we further along, the viewer already supports alternate layouts.  Using the "universal input" fudging We can generate a slew of layout files thatare based upon the orginal games.  Control panel pics are useless in most cases as they are low res and too small to read the text on an arcade monitor or tv.  We need fresh control panel overlays that we can apply frosty's generic control images to.  That way it's readable.  

[Minwah]

Hey Minwah,

Is Mamewah set up to use this Controls.dat.  If not, do you have plans to incorporate it any time soon?

No and no...but I DO plan to do it when I get chance.  I want to be able to use the info from controls.dat to filter on and such.  This means quite a lot of code re-writing and adding for me, which I can't do yet.  When my cab is complete(ish) this is more likely to happen

[papaschtroumpf]

So can we use a "helper" batch file between minwah and mame to display instructions after selecting the game? Ideally you want a single batch file, not one per ROM!
I just came back from a trip so I didn't get to try this app yet, but I'll be giving it a try over the next few days.
How does the app exit, do you just press any key (my vote)? does it timeout by itself?

I also would like to use a "different" controls.dat for my non-mame applications, but it doesn't look like you can pass it a controls.dat on the command line. Maybe I'll have to "pollute" the existing controls.dat by adding my own entries at then end, or do weird things like swapping out config files at "runtime".

I'll probably have more comments after I actually try the app...

[SirPoonga]

You would have to follow our format to the letter in order to do that then.  For consoles this project wouldn't work as the buttons are A, B, X, Y, Z whatever:)  

Minwah.  All you;d have to do for now is support using the viewer.  That;s the purpose of the viewer.  Liek the wrappers it is meant to be used by FEs.

[Minwah]

Minwah.  All you;d have to do for now is support using the viewer.  That;s the purpose of the viewer.  Liek the wrappers it is meant to be used by FEs.

OK - I don't know why I didn't see that at the time...so yes it should be easy to support the viewer (I must try it soon...)

I was just thinking a little further on, it would be GREAT to be able to filter etc. on the info in controls.dat - far more accurate than the current MAME input type.  This would make it possible to properly filter for multiple control panels for eg.

[Howard_Casto]

Just a status update.  Cdbrown helped me find a couple of major bus regarding the parsing of alternate .lof (layout/skin) files.  I haven't updated the exe yet so if you have troubles in those areas you'll know why.  

[SirPoonga]

Minwah.  All you;d have to do for now is support using the viewer.  That;s the purpose of the viewer.  Liek the wrappers it is meant to be used by FEs.

OK - I don't know why I didn't see that at the time...so yes it should be easy to support the viewer (I must try it soon...)

I was just thinking a little further on, it would be GREAT to be able to filter etc. on the info in controls.dat - far more accurate than the current MAME input type.  This would make it possible to properly filter for multiple control panels for eg.

Yeah.  In the future filtering would be awesome.  Right now not enough games are in the system to warranty doing that anyway.  But I totally agree with you on that.


When I get around to making my SDL FE for linux I will have little icons representing what the game used, not a full out controll panel.  Or the option of outputting to the viewer in windows version (since in theory an SDL app can be cross platform).

[papaschtroumpf]

Minwah.  All you;d have to do for now is support using the viewer.  That;s the purpose of the viewer.  Liek the wrappers it is meant to be used by FEs.

OK - I don't know why I didn't see that at the time...so yes it should be easy to support the viewer (I must try it soon...)

I was just thinking a little further on, it would be GREAT to be able to filter etc. on the info in controls.dat - far more accurate than the current MAME input type.  This would make it possible to properly filter for multiple control panels for eg.

Awesome, can't wait!

[Tilzs]

This is a cool project and the data is definatly usefull. I don't like the viewer however. I think it'd be much more user friendly if you didn't have to command line everything.

I'm much more interested in just browseing and grouping games based on the raw data   than haveing some CP graphic. A lot of times i'm wondering what games are 4 player, how many are there, is there anygames with this config etc..

I think it'd be nice if there was a web front end for the data in a mysql database (sortable of course) Suppose one could feed an applet or something that displays a cp as done now with the current front end if one wanted to.

[papaschtroumpf]

While what you're asking would also be useful, what I really wanted was a viewer and I think it should stay a separate application from a listinfo type of program. That's what's great about the controls.dat project: it provides the data in a common easy to use format and everyone else can use that data for whatever purpose. I'm sure a lot of front-ends will eventually rely on that dataset in the future.
In my case I find it easy enough to write scripts or import the data into a database and sort it, whereas writing a full blown viewer like Howard's is a project a little too ambitious for the time I have available so I'm happy someone else decided to take on that task!

[SirPoonga]

This is a cool project and the data is definatly usefull. I don't like the viewer however. I think it'd be much more user friendly if you didn't have to command line everything.

See, the purpose of the viewer is for other FE devs to incorporate into their FEs like HC's wrappers.  So commandline based is a must.

I think it'd be nice if there was a web front end for the data in a mysql database (sortable of course) Suppose one could feed an applet or something that displays a cp as done now with the current front end if one wanted to.

Well, this is the closest I can give you off hand.  It's mysql if that helps
http://www.fe.donkeyfly.com/controls/gamesbycontrol.php

[Howard_Casto]

This is a cool project and the data is definatly usefull. I don't like the viewer however. I think it'd be much more user friendly if you didn't have to command line everything.

I'm much more interested in just browseing and grouping games based on the raw data   than haveing some CP graphic. A lot of times i'm wondering what games are 4 player, how many are there, is there anygames with this config etc..

I think it'd be nice if there was a web front end for the data in a mysql database (sortable of course) Suppose one could feed an applet or something that displays a cp as done now with the current front end if one wanted to.

Well then make one.  No offense but you can't complain about the end product if you don't contribute and I don't see a single entry with your name present.    The data is there, everyone is welcome to it, but if you have a problem with what I'm willing to code in terms of middleware, then you'll have to write different applications yourself.  I do encourage this and we even have a basic dev kit in the works.  

p.s. people, this is a hint...... I'm more than willing to add features and work on new apps if I feel they are a good idea.  I will find ideas much better if they are included with a generous dontation of a few database entries.  

(I'm not interested in this particular one though as simple text based filtering or xml, which we supply, are better ways to go.)

[SirPoonga]

Oh, I will add.  On my spare spare time I am working on this.

THIS IS NOT NEAR COMPLETION.  It just gives a good idea.  If you want to use those graphics talk to me in pm.  The graphics are supplied with the viewer.  They are Frosty's work.  If you use them make sure you credit him somewhere in your program or docs (that's why you can pm me, I will give out credit information)

http://www.fe.donkeyfly.com/xml/controls.html

This was done for a school project.  Hence the game suggestions to click on.  I had to prove it worked.

[Tilzs]

This is a cool project and the data is definatly usefull. I don't like the viewer however. I think it'd be much more user friendly if you didn't have to command line everything.

See, the purpose of the viewer is for other FE devs to incorporate into their FEs like HC's wrappers.  So commandline based is a must.

I was kind of figureing that was the case.

[Tilzs]

Well then make one.  No offense but you can't complain about the end product if you don't contribute and I don't see a single entry with your name present.    The data is there, everyone is welcome to it, but if you have a problem with what I'm willing to code in terms of middleware, then you'll have to write different applications yourself.  I do encourage this and we even have a basic dev kit in the works.  

p.s. people, this is a hint...... I'm more than willing to add features and work on new apps if I feel they are a good idea.  I will find ideas much better if they are included with a generous dontation of a few database entries.  

(I'm not interested in this particular one though as simple text based filtering or xml, which we supply, are better ways to go.)

I'm sure you put a lot of work into it and it's great but it's just wasnt' what I was really expecting. It took me a bit to figure out what really was going on. It just seems to me odd that a util that is command line based is released to the public when the utility is more or less geared toward FE devs (hence the reason for the command line). Whats the harm in makeing it both besides a little time. Yes you can get all grumpy about me not contribing but when someone posts something and asks for some input and gets defensive after the fact, seems a bit odd. I'm just giving some feedback here to help from an end user.

Maybe this whole thing is a documentation issue since the app is geared toward a FE dev and it took me a while to figure all this out. Acutally didn't really figure it out until the replies in this thread.

BTW I looked though the data file, looks great. Wouldn't take very much effort to parse it into a sql database and I'm sure someone will do it soon if I don't do it myself.

[SirPoonga]

Well then make one.  No offense but you can't complain about the end product if you don't contribute and I don't see a single entry with your name present.    The data is there, everyone is welcome to it, but if you have a problem with what I'm willing to code in terms of middleware, then you'll have to write different applications yourself.  I do encourage this and we even have a basic dev kit in the works.  

p.s. people, this is a hint...... I'm more than willing to add features and work on new apps if I feel they are a good idea.  I will find ideas much better if they are included with a generous dontation of a few database entries.  

(I'm not interested in this particular one though as simple text based filtering or xml, which we supply, are better ways to go.)

I'm sure you put a lot of work into it and it's great but it's just wasnt' what I was really expecting. It took me a bit to figure out what really was going on. It just seems to me odd that a util that is command line based is released to the public when the utility is more or less geared toward FE devs (hence the reason for the command line). Whats the harm in makeing it both besides a little time. Yes you can get all grumpy about me not contribing but when someone posts something and asks for some input and gets defensive after the fact, seems a bit odd. I'm just giving some feedback here to help from an end user.

1) Where are the FE devs?  Here, that's where.  That's why it is posted here.
2) It generated a surge of interest in the project again.  We've had many submissions lately.

BTW I looked though the data file, looks great. Wouldn't take very much effort to parse it into a sql database and I'm sure someone will do it soon if I don't do it myself.

It already is  But not a public one.  Internet is slow for some people anyway.  Plus why would someone put this info in another sql server anyway.

[ErikRuud]

I just tried out Howard's viewer today. I really like what I am seeing.

Is there any tool out there to make creating the ctrlr files easier?

On my cab, I have buttons reassigned all over the place.  That information is stored in the roms .cfg files.  Is there a tool for reading the .cfg files? I would rather not have to go and manually build ctrlr files to match all of that customization.

As an example , In tempest I have the bottom row of player buttons assigned to Fire and the upper row is assigned to the Super Zapper.  I made a ctrlr file for Tempest so that Johhny5 displays the controls correctly, but doing that for every game will be a pain.