The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Software Forum => Topic started by: GGKoul on January 17, 2005, 11:10:51 am
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People that don't understand how to extract a file or try to run a game on a PII 350mhz and then complain why it's not running... should step away from their computers and just walk away. You just don't get it...
BTW: I haven't seen a "Why isn't Golden Tee 2005" in mame question lately.
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I can post the Golden Tee question, if you like, although I don't really care, and understand what the answer will be before posting the question.
It's not a matter of them not "getting it" or having to "walk away". It simply has to do with the ultimate stereotype guys have going against them.
It has to do with RTFM and people here wanting to help others. On the one hand, it's a blessing, on the other hand, there aren't enough folks nice enough to do the HowardCasto thing and TELL THEM to RTFM. I say "nice enough" to tell them that, because they'll learn SO much more by RTFM that may help them avoid problems/questions in the future.
I appreciate the helpfulness of the folks here, although I RTFM always (while my wife laughs in the background because "it's just a _________ , why are you reading the manual?") and usually end up being able to help myself, the occasional brain fart happens. The "simple" stuff needs to be pointed back to the manual, but many a noob can thank their lucky stars they found this site to help 'em out ;D
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Yes, but the problem is not enough people RTFM.
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GG, dont you have hockey to be playing or something? ;D
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GG, dont you have hockey to be playing or something?
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You got yer guys mixed up there. ;)
I do.
He may. ;D
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BOOM!
Got told!
;D
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People that don't understand how to extract a file or try to run a game on a PII 350mhz and then complain why it's not running... should step away from their computers and just walk away. You just don't get it...
BTW: I haven't seen a "Why isn't Golden Tee 2005" in mame question lately.
Ok, so you are complaining about people that post topics that are useless or ones they shouldn't be posting in this forum at all....yet you yourself are posting a topic that doesn't have to do with a Software issue... uh.... ???
IMO this should be a rant in the Everything Else forum. :police:
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ilove your icon :D
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I too like the set... err I mean your avatar
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There's just a lot of NEWBIE questions appearing in the Software Forum lately.
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who cares....if people have questions, let them ask..I dont mind. 8)
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who cares....if people have questions, let them ask..I dont mind. 8)
You might want to change your screen name to "Master Of The Obvious" ::)
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I like the3eyedblindman ::)
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"DrewKaree" is kind of boring though. :-\
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I like the3eyedblindman ::)
It's amazing how similar it is to subzero23
;D
-Goz
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"DrewKaree" is kind of boring though. :-\
Ouch. You're killing me. Seriously. ::)
This would be the place to put a witty comeback, but then I'd have to waste more time explaining it to ya.
Using pictures ::)
Goz, I was thinking it was more akin to blueoakleyz, mahsef.
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Goz, I was thinking it was more akin to blueoakleyz, mahsef.
Lets see what path he chooses
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Gotta agree with Drew on this one.
It's not a matter of answering an occasional dumb question, it's a matter of the same people asking several dumb questions. Why do they do that? Because you people think you are being "helpful" by hand feeding them obvious answers.
Ever heard the expression, "Give a man a fish he will eat for a day, teach a man how to fish he will never go hungry." ??
If you don't tell them to rtfm and be stern about it, they'll flood the board with newbie question after newbie question, never reading the manual, and thus never really learning anything.
And regardless of how you feel about newbie questions, this isn't the proper place to get help with mame. The mameworld fourms (the official forums of the mame project) are. The same thing can be applied to almost every other emulator out there. This forum's members consist of emulator users not emulator developers. I mean honestly, doesn't it make more sense to ask your question about an emualtor in a forum where the people who wrote the emulator will actually see it??? It's just common sense to me, but apparently some people around here don't have any.
I was here when this board began. The software forum was and still is, intended for questions regarding:
Software used to interface to arcade controls.
Arcade-specific front ends and utilities.
Getting an emulator to properly interface with said controls or applications.
There are a thousand emulator tech support forums, but only one byoac software forum, which is used for arcade cabinet related questions.
With that being said... an occasional off-beat question isn't a big deal, but when the ratio of on-topic to off-topic posts is as skewed as it is now, it tends to get annoying. You guys can easily detect when the ratio is out of balance. I'm like one of those Canary's in a coal mine, except when the air gets bad, I get cranky. ;)
Also "What is your favorite game?", "What is the name of this game?" and "A list of games with ____ types of controls" should be in the everything else forum as they have absolutely nothing to do with software tech support.
With that being said, this really should have been in the everything else forum, except the newbies don't go there so they'd never see it. :police:
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Ever heard the expression, "Give a man a fish he will eat for a day, teach a man how to fish he will never go hungry." ??
I like my version better.
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I don't wanna figure out which should be done to whom. ;D
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I was here when this board began. The software forum was and still is, intended for questions regarding:
Software used to interface to arcade controls.
Arcade-specific front ends and utilities.
Getting an emulator to properly interface with said controls or applications.
Perhaps the title on the 'entrance' page should be changed...it says 'Front ends, juke boxes, emulator help, etc... ' - which could be interpreted in a no. of ways. In fairness to the newbs, how do they know 'emulator help' means 'Getting an emulator to properly interface with said controls or applications' and not 'anything related to emulator software'?
Also, jukeboxes have their own forum now.
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I agree. Saint likes to keep things more passive though. And I can really understand why. Until recently, these types of posts were pretty occasional and as I said before, once in a while it's no big deal. Next time I talk to him I'll ask him about it and see what he says, but as always it's his board and we'll have to respect his decision.
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Perhaps in addition, we could make a sticky with links directly to emulators / FE's / apps own message boards where available. As you say questions are better directed there when possible.
I know MAMEWAH has a lot of questions here, and it has it's own (well shared with AOS) board - it would help me out if people used that board more as I see the same questions on both boards all the time. I know some people aren't registered at MameWorld, but they should be - it's cool ;)
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I don't mind a certain amount of hand holding (esp. on some more difficult things) but seriously, this hobby requires a bit of PC knowledge. You should take it on yourself to learn it.
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And regardless of how you feel about newbie questions, this isn't the proper place to get help with mame.
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I don't mind a certain amount of hand holding (esp. on some more difficult things) but seriously, this hobby requires a bit of PC knowledge.
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Exactly!! The BYOAC forum is for Building Your Own Arcade Controls and the various software & hardware questions that go along with Building Your Own Arcade Controls.
You have to admit there are some questions which come up which shouldn't. Even at the EmuAdvice board at MameWorld, there are very few 'basic' questions nowadays thanks to the 'read the faq, docs & EasyEmu' policy there.
www.mameworld.net/easyemu is excellent, and we should probably point people there more often.
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Just my two cents....as a long time lurker who read till my eyeballs fell out it was quite a while until I asked some (what I admit now) were some lame questions if I had read deeper into some of the forums.
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As the quote about the fish remember you may need to hold the hand to get them to the lake, teaching them to fish at the desert will still leave them hungry
EXCELLENT point I never considered, and HILARIOUS to boot! Good stuff, that.
When pointing someone to "TFM", I'll try to remember to tell them WHERE "TFM" is. Thank you! :)
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why cant we all just get along? :-\
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Because the manual/readme was put together to give a person enough information to get to the point of usefulness. Skipping it makes it seem as if that person can't be bothered to put the time in that we have, or somehow that person's time is somehow more valuable so that they can't be bothered to do simple homework that we thought to be vital, hence the knowledge to answer that person's question.
When questions are posed that are clearly obvious in showing that a person hasn't done the basic homework, it's akin to taking advantage of the generosity of people to do your work for that person. An example would be having someone write a term paper for you, and you taking the credit for the "A" that you'd get.
Not only is that person poorly equipped to deal with potential future problems, they slow down possible solutions to more IMPORTANT problems that the kind people being asked to spoon-feed those answers might be working on. That would better benefit the community as a whole, rather than taking time out of their busy schedule to help answer something that is answered in the manual/readme.
I'd rather Howard be working on some swank new feature for his FE that, while not benefitting me because I don't use it, would still benefit a dozen new people who were searching for a FE that had that "BINGO, THAT'S IT!" feature than for him to waste his time answering questions about basic ROM setup that's in the MAME readme or is better answered on the MAME forums.
Does that work for you? It has nothing to do with "getting along", it has to do with the simple expectations that you've at least put in the time on the basics. Again I say - if it's too much to ask you to do the basics, then it's too much for YOU to ask us to hold your hand. Mommy doesn't post here.
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;D "Does that work for you? It has nothing to do with "getting along", it has to do with the simple expectations that you've at least put in the time on the basics. Again I say - if it's too much to ask you to do the basics, then it's too much for YOU to ask us to hold your hand. Mommy doesn't post here. "
Nicely put Drew I think that says it all......nuff said
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I have said this a hundred times, but...Someone needs to build a SEARCHABLE KNOWLEDGE BASE for this site! In an FAQ style, like you would find at say a hardware or software site. This would really be helpful for n00bs.
Or at least a "Commonly Asked Questions" part for this forum. :-*
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I have said this a hundred times, but...Someone needs to build a SEARCHABLE KNOWLEDGE BASE for this site! In an FAQ style, like you would find at say a hardware or software site. This would really be helpful for n00bs.
Or at least a "Commonly Asked Questions" part for this forum.
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we have several:
www.mame.net
www.oscarcontrols.com/lazarus
www.mameworld.net
www.mameworld.net/easyemu
the stickys at the top of this forum
not to mention this very forum if you actually use the search function (properly) before you ask a question
and of course good old www.google.com
if a question was ever been asked on the internet, then google or one of these other sources will find it.
If people aren't willing to rtfm, what makes you think they'll be willing to read another, less specific, doc?
I know we have all those. but we need something more "Idioth Proof" if you know what I mean...it would save us these types of discussions IMO.
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The ideal way is to limited the posts or make some reading mandatory when someone joins the forum.
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Maybe when a person registers, they could recieve a FAQ in the form of a PDF, word doc, etc... That way searching is on their machine and hence no excuse of cant find it in the thousands of posts.
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we need something more "Idioth Proof"
Those who believe in the concept of making something Idiot Proof haven't run across a determined Idiot.
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Spocktwin, I took your advice, and led him out of the desert over to the lake......if, after putting the rod in his hands, he refuses to cast, I may have to push him into the lake ;D
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=29553.new#new (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=29553.new#new)
THAT link will point you to a CLASSIC example of what this thread is referring to, as well as a classLESS example of how to become an ingrate to the forum.
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we need something more "Idioth Proof"
Those who believe in the concept of making something Idiot Proof haven't run across a determined Idiot.
I've got to remember that one!
That's just as good as...
In the land of the Goats, the Goat F**ker is King!
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Spocktwin, I took your advice, and led him out of the desert over to the lake......if, after putting the rod in his hands, he refuses to cast, I may have to push him into the lake
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::chuckle:: ::)
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..Phew.. Thought this thread was about me...
Nope, not about you, but hopefully you took away from that thread an idea of what we're talking about
Sorry for telling you your name was boring Drew... No hard feelings.
If stuff like that truly bothered me, I'd be opening my thin-skinned self up to all kinds of problems. Besides, if I let stuff like that bother me, then I'd be.......crashwg. ;D
Sorry, crash...it's all the "I need help" and sounding like a girl ;D
(and the best part is it's gonna eat him up not to reply ;D ;D ;D )
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Its too bad a lot of the "regulars" on this board fail to realize one thing:
without "noobs"...the knowledge base/community will never expand and continue to flourish.
everyone is a newbie at some point...just b/c you visit the site each day, have built yourself a cabinet, and have a cheesy video clip of a beautiful woman (who would never have anything to do with you) under your name, - doesnt make you jesus.
lets lighten up on newcomers, without new people asking questions that may be obvious to you veterans, this community would cease to exist.
amen.
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yeah. no avatars with hot chicks! :P
:o
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Its too bad a lot of the "regulars" on this board fail to realize one thing:
without "noobs"...the knowledge base/community will never expand and continue to flourish.
everyone is a newbie at some point...just b/c you visit the site each day, have built yourself a cabinet, and have a cheesy video clip of a beautiful woman (who would never have anything to do with you) under your name, - doesnt make you jesus.
lets lighten up on newcomers, without new people asking questions that may be obvious to you veterans, this community would cease to exist.
amen.
Well being a newbie yourself, I don't see how your statment carries any weight.
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Bad attitudes can be fixed on this forum (mine was)
It's true! One day, just after I reached 3,000 posts, Saint came knocking on my door to give me ---my bottom--- kicking. I noted a tied up person in the backseat of his car before my beating commenced.
It was only later when everyone was posting pictures of themselves that I realized that person was Howard!
Howard, I don't know what Saint did to you, but you survived, so you must be much stronger now. Good for you.
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I call for peace in our time.
"Dear olschoolpeeps, lighten up, kthxbye."
"Dear noobs, smarten up, kthxbye."
Truth be told, if not for the noobs, the software board would be dead. Only everything else would exist, and then only for Drew and Mr.C to brawl over Iraq. Sure some new people are stupid, but honestly, the REALLY stupid questions often don't get answered around here anyways, people just jump on the thread and heckle mercilessly. And really, for every "How do I make MAME work?" question I see, I see 4 or 5 decent questions... and that's not too bad.
BTW, Crazy People is an awesome movie. I love...
"Sony. Because caucasians are just too damn tall." ;D
...and...
"Volvo. They're boxy, but they're good." ;D
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Bad attitudes can be fixed on this forum (mine was)
It's true!
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Hello,
I am a noob for sure and wanted to express my views on this forum. I am currently working on my cab and am very close to being finished. What was very discouraging was the software end of the project. I couldn't even understand the basics of what was going on. Due to the abuse some other posters were taking, I have decided not to ask. I stopped after I had the cab built and just worked on other projects. I play a lot of poker and decided to build a table. On a lot of the poker forums, many of individuals post goofy posts and start pointless threads I believe due to wanting to share without really knowing how. People who are interested respond, most blow it off and its out of site within a day or so. When I began that project, I didn't know what I was getting into. It took some decent knowledge and availability of tools to do the woodwork and it took forever to get the desired product that I wanted. I shared thoughts with others and got the job done. On this site, I don't know if it is a pride thing or what, but a lot of the people here are pretty mean when it comes to responses. I am sure you feel that the noobs are lazy and just want the answers, and your right. We are still building the cabs, but in my personal experience, I don't know that much about the software end. Software and woodworking are two different worlds. I could build a house if I had to, but the software is like learning chemistry over the internet. It took me hours to configure my wireless routing system. I have spent countless days doing some of the simplest things on this dang machine. Looking into Mame makes my head spin. I know it's not hard, but getting started was killing me. Two gentlemen on this forum emailed me that live in my area. We met last weekend and they answered a ton of questions. The unselfish help they provided won't be forgotten and will certainly be passed along as I grow with this genre. I was lucky to see how these work in person and I think a lot of the other noobs don't get the chance. I think it is great if you developed MAME from Apple IIe software or were around when it came on the scene, but relax. Realize that what you have is the ability to cause joy in so many peoples lives. The knowledge that you have is not a cure for aids or the secret to financial freedom. If this is all you know how to do, then I guess you should be harsh, but I don't believe that. I appreciate this site and what it's about, but when a lonely guy like PaigeOliver gets his rocks off on somebody that posts a dumb question, it just makes me wish he didn't have this knowledge in depth. I want this machine for me, but most importantly for my kids. When you look at some of the responses the older guys drop on the noobs, it just makes me want to kick their rear. It's just an arcade machine. Granted, the neatest thing I've ever seen, but just a game in the end. Again, thanks for this site being here, and all that you guys do.
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I won't comment either way, but your software setup is more important than the hardware, and thus it's expected to require more effort. You can have great woodworking skills, but without a os, fe and emulators, you've built a very fancy tv shelf. :) Evne to people with no talent or experience in either fields, the woodworking aspect should be realitively easy compared to the software end of things.
p.s. your link isn't working.... we need a user and pass to view other people's ophoto galleries.
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I appreciate this site and what it's about, but when a lonely guy like PaigeOliver gets his rocks off on somebody that posts a dumb question, it just makes me wish he didn't have this knowledge in depth.
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Authors note:I want to stress that the focus on negative comments is an observation of the forums. I think 95% of the comments are great. It's the other 5% this whole topic pertains to. Please don't misinterpret my post. There is a ton of positive on this site and I plan to be a part of it.
I deleted the pics link to my table, I don't know what they changed, but now you need a password. Again, I think what you guys do is great, but the remarks burn me sometimes. Mind you, I am talking about comments few and far between, but if any of you said some of those things to my face, I would either leave, confront you, and/or (as in the case of Paige) most importantly, label you as a loser. That guy seems to have nothing nice to say the majority of time unless he knows you. This is just a forum of people who like the same thing. In the circles I hang out with, if someone is a consistent jerk, we just exclude him. Lucky for Paige, he goes back a ways and is in with the originals. I am sure there are more than enough noobs who could do without him. If this blacklists me, whatever. I come here for advice and to share. I could give a crap for people who get some sort of wierd pleasure by facelessly including pointless comments of arrogance. Now with that said...
I understand the software is the hard part. I don't question that. I am saying that when you get the fancy shelf done, you are ready to jump to the next level and in my case, I hit a brick wall. So anyways, I am getting the project done, putting in my time, and hopefully some year I will have this done. I'm not looking to get railed on, I wanted to express what I have observed from six months of viewing. I honestly think this site is great, and I am more than willing to continue helping others that are newer than me. Be a productive citizen people, that's all I'm saying!
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Perhaps this topic should be deleted before mccoy178 negativity becomes contagious. ;D
Continuing to refer to people as having no lives and or being a jerk is no better than what you are saying is wrong. The 5% you mentioned grows with additional posts to this thread.
Crap better make that 5.2%
-Goz
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Good Point, I'm done with the thread. I appologize.
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Good Point, I'm done with the thread. I appologize.
McCoy178,
I just want to make some general comments about this forum. I am not sure what you decided not to ask or which posters you are referring to, but ask here or PM me and I will help you out.
In Paige's defense - Paige is one of the most knowledgeable members of the forum both on actual arcade hardware and what versions of MAME are required for various games. I myself usually answer many of the newbie posts, and it gets frustrating to me when there is a sticky at the top of the page for "What PC do I need to run MAME, and three times a week someone posts "What can I run on a 400 MHz PIII, and after it gets answered, someone asks in the same thread "What games can I run on a 450 MHz Celeron?", but we still answer them.
Credit needs to be given to the forum for providing the answers it does, and for having it searchable as easily as it is.
If you want other examples of how not to do it - I recently switched from Norton Antivus to AVG Free - here is their forum - http://forum.grisoft.cz/freeforum/, the folks are helpful, but look at the category titles. Let's say I want to update the software manually, but I get an error message when it installs - Is this an installation problem, an update problem, an Information and Alerts Problem, or an other issues problem? - It could be any and you will probably find relevant posts in any of these, so it's not very useable.
And someone suggested going to the software developer's forum instead of here. I DARE anyone to go to the MAME Serious forum and post "Hey, I downloaded the latest MAME and galaga.zip from www.mamewarez-roms.com and when I clicked on it, a black screen came up and exited", like someone posted on the EmuLoader boards recently. I've seen it happen before and the results weren't pretty.
Software is very tough to advise on b/c of the range of abilities out there.
For example, MAME32 is the easiest to learn, but I wouldn't recommend using it once you have figured out what it does and how it works.
I personally run about six versions of command-line MAME (or command-line MAME32) with custom command lines in my Front End to specify which version each game uses, but this isn't the ideal solution (yet) for the guy that's used to using a Macintosh, and hasn't seen Windows Explorer before.
In closing, I would like to point out, that as a member of this forum, you are able in large extent to determine the tone of the forum overall. Now that you have had your questions answered, you will be able to help others when they ask what some would consider "basic" questions. And if you do a little more hand-holding than most others would, no one (not noone=NBA) is going to complain and tell you to stop.
Something to consider as you continue on here. . .
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I honestly don't think I've seen hardly any overly harsh replies to newbs in here. Maybe that's because I don't read all the threads but I do believe most people here are more than helpful.
IMO if 95% of the replies are good, then that is not bad going :)
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Thanks guys, I agree with mamewah. I came off a little harsh there on Paige and I apologize. The first couple of weeks I was on here I saw him blast a few in a way I thought was out of line. It just seems that his posts have a light of arrogance to them. Anyways, I should have never opened this thread. I fell victim to and hate when people make negative comments and/or argue over moot points in a thread, and I started it! This place is great, I will continue the tradition of helping others and I do understand how the questions can sometimes become redundant. I work at a customer service counter.
Here are the pics of the table. Figured out how to do it finally. This stuff takes me forever.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/mccoy178/DSC00428.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/mccoy178/DSC00436.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/mccoy178/PokerTopFinish.jpg)
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Nice table... I wanna see the arcade cab!
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Here are the pics of the table. Figured out how to do it finally. This stuff takes me forever.
Shoulda just asked us. We'd have helped you out with that! ;D
You should post this in Arcade Misc.