Xbox 360 VGA Bug

[DJ_Izumi]

I figured I'd post this hear, it's something I uncovered after thinking with my new Xbox 360 and Pinball Hall Of Fame The Williams Collection.  I started messing around and tried a few other games.

I use my 360 on a 4:3 Dell P1110 monitor with a Sony Trinitron tube. Obviously I do this with the VGA cable. I’ve uncovered an odd issue affecting many games when it comes to rendering games at high resolution at 4:3. This doesn’t seem to affect all games so I’m not sure if it’s an SDK side issue or dev issue or what.

The Xbox 360 has three 4:3 capable resolutions: 640x480, 1024x768 and 1280x1024. At 640x480 everything behaves fine. You basically get normal function as you would using any low def cables.

1024x768 and 1280x1024 are the problems. They can be set to wide screen (For wide screen monitors) or normal (full frame monitors). These resolutions with the setting to ‘normal’ and used on a 4:3 monitor is when it breaks on some games. The issue is the games run letter boxed, with a 16:9 image framed with letter boxes, but the image in that 16:9 frame is a 4:3 image that has been squashed to fit it. Basically everything looks ‘fat’. Oddly enough this only seems to affect 3D rendered elements. All 2D sprites for menus and text remain at their correct aspect ratio where as the 3D aspect ratio is more or less murdered.

I’ve noticed that the games that do this are ones that switch to full frame viewing for SD resolutions, 480i and 480p stuff. This does not seem to happen on games that use letter boxes at all resolutions.

I’ve tested and seen this problem on Outrun Online Arcade and Pinball Hall Of Fame The Williams Collection.

A game that doesn’t use full frame at all even at SD resolutions would be Ace Combat 6 and it functions normally at all resolutions.

Like I said, this is clearly a software problem and nothing the end user can fix (Other than switching to wide screen monitors) I think it’s likely rarely seen in beta testing because a 4:3 monitor on VGA is probably the only scenario one would have high resolution full frame options being used. So it’s an uncommon scenario. Any other 4:3 display is standard definition 480p at the most.

I’d hope though that maybe some people can take notice, devs in particular and maybe there will be some patches so I can play these games on 4:3 monitors or 4:3 data projectors without being forced to use 680x480 to keep everything from getting squashed in many games.

[testicle187]

I've used my 360 with a VGA cable set on 1024x768 with my projector for 3 years and never seen any of the problems you describe.  You probably have a problem with your monitor, 360, or your VGA cable.  Is your cable an offbrand by chance?

[SavannahLion]

Sounds like it's related to #16.

[DJ_Izumi]

I've used my 360 with a VGA cable set on 1024x768 with my projector for 3 years and never seen any of the problems you describe.  You probably have a problem with your monitor, 360, or your VGA cable.  Is your cable an offbrand by chance?

The problem does not seem to affect all games and also doesn't affect the dashboard.  But there are some games that do have this problem.  Uhh, go on XBLA and download the Outrun Online Arcade trial and tell mee if you see letter boxes with a 'fat' image rendered inside those letter boxes.

The cable being off brand has no effect on this.  It is an Intec cable but the cable is pretty 'dumb', it puts resistance on some pins and the Xbox starts outputting.  Resolution and aspect ratio are all controlled by the user in the dashboard.

The monitor is fine too, I'm using a pair of P1110's, the tube inside was used in several branded monitors and is one of the best consumer CRT PC Monitors ever put on the market.

[northerngames]

I dont play live games but I have never had any problems with the official cables or any of my monitors so maybe its a live thing and if so it don't suprise me really..

[DJ_Izumi]

I dont play live games but I have never had any problems with the official cables or any of my monitors so maybe its a live thing and if so it don't suprise me really..

No Outrun Online Arcade is just an example that you could easily get.  I also have the problem with PHOF which is a retail disc game.  It's certianly not the cables that are flawed, it's how the Xbox 360 deals with high definition non-widescreen material but only in certian games.  I presume the issue lies on the devs.

[NIVO]

just a quick question here izumi, have ya changed refresh on that tube monitor? Hows it looking at 60 hz compared to say 75 or 85?

[DJ_Izumi]

just a quick question here izumi, have ya changed refresh on that tube monitor? Hows it looking at 60 hz compared to say 75 or 85?

Uhh, while the refresh rate isn't an issue.  (Trust me, I do know how to use the OSD to adjust the monitor.  I do know the difference between the part where the electron gun is drawing black and where it's not hitting the screen at all)  I assure you, I have this set right.)  I will admit in some lighting conditions, bright screens like the Xbox logo on bootup with lots of white hurts the eyes. :/

It's not a monitor issue.  That wouldn't explain why when the problematic games do this behavour, why the 2D assets stay at the right aspect ratio but the 3D is stretched to look 'fat'.

[northerngames]

what is PHOF?

[DJ_Izumi]

what is PHOF?

Pinball Hall Of Fame: The Williams Collection.

[northerngames]

Yeah out of the few hundred if not thousand's of games people abbreviate for some reason I would have guessed that one  

[DJ_Izumi]

But I'm just saying, I am certianly using the VGA cable and the monitors properly.  I certianly know what I'm doing here.

I invite someone to try one of the games I've said demonstrates this behavour and tell me their results.  I'm also curious if dashboard version is relevent to this.  It's also possible that some people have experienced this and not noticed  (Heck, how many people are watching composite 4:3 video stretched out on their high def TV?)

[northerngames]

That was the main reason I asked what PHOF was becuase I was going to check it if I had it but I do not so cannot help.

[DJ_Izumi]

There's a similar issue on Duke Nukem 3D from XBLA.

At 640x480 Duke 3D plays normally as you'd expect, full frame and all.

At 1024x768 however it letter boxes the game, but Duke is a 4:3 game so it also PILLAR BOXES it with a decorative wallpaper.

It looks like this, letter boxes included: http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh100/AshleyAshes2/Duke.jpg

However the aspect ratio is NOT skewed.  The AR is fine, you're just losing a lot of screen space.

It seems to me that there are some serious problems in reguards to high resolution 4:3 output on the Xbox 360.

I tested Ikaruga as well, it actually works perfectly, full screen, full frame, even at high resolution.