Author Topic: Wood vs. particle board vs. ?? (Read 14011 times)

richattri · « **on:** June 07, 2002, 06:53:15 pm »

Besides obvious issues such as painting vs. staining, why would you choose particle board vs. wood? Also, I was looking at birch wood (which would probably stain to a cherry color pretty well), and the 3/4" stuff weighed an absolute ton! Is there any particular reason why 3/4" should be chosen over 1/2" wood?

Thanks for any input.
Rich

Jakobud · « **Reply #1 on:** June 07, 2002, 06:59:51 pm »

Neither of those. Use 5/8" MDF. This is called Mixed Density Fiber board. Sorta like particle board but very smooth and very good looking. And the paint finish on it is excellent. 3/4 is just too big and unnecessary. 1/2 is too weak in my opinion. Whichever of these you use though, just make sure your monitor is sitting on more than 3/4" of wood!

jakobud

mattv · « **Reply #2 on:** June 07, 2002, 08:58:25 pm »

one advantage particle board and mdf have over "real" wood is that wood warps and they don't.

This could come in useful if you wanted to locate your cabinet... in the sauna. Hmm, maybe it's not such a great advantage after all.

AFAIK the reason most genuine arcade machines are made of particle board is that it's cheap. Not really a consideration if you only plan to make one.

I agree with the previous poster that 1/2 inch wood is rather weak. It's also harder to find 1/2 inch T-molding (at least it was for me)

neuromancer · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2002, 10:12:00 am »

10 years ago I built a 6.5' by 3' desk from 1/2 inch B/C ply. In 10 years it has never warped a bit, even in extreme humidity swings. The "trick" is cross bracing. For an edge treatment, I just smeared on wood filler, which I textured slightly with a wet finger. Looks sort of like wood grain. It has held up really well over the years, through 6 moves.

If you used furniture grade plywood, 1/2 inch should be plenty strong, assuming you build it to avoid warping. I would probably use continuous 2x2 stock to join the front to the sides, glued and screwed, and you would need at least a partial back (or something) to keep the sides straight.

Bob
South Carolina

mr.Curmudgeon · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2002, 03:37:14 pm »

I'll be on my way to building a cabinet myself shortly and from what I've gathered, I'd have to agree w/
Jakobud...

Go with MDF....it's is way easier to work with for cutting/painting or laminating...and it just LOOKS a whole Hell of a lot better

If you want to build curves, there's PLIABLE MDF...
----------------------------------
http://www.outwater.com/mdfboard.html

Or if you're concerned about weight, there's GoldenEdge Liteboard MDF
(20% lighter in weight than regular MDF but maintains the excellent strength quality)
----------------------------------
http://www.nelsonpine.co.nz/products/liteboardpage1.htm

Haven't fully looked into either yet, so I'm not even sure how available it is, but I'm just in the brainstorming stages of building a VERY non-standard looking cab. So I thought I'd share these materials.

mrC

Surgeville · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2002, 07:25:01 pm »

I used 3/4 MDF and have been very happy. It is heavy, but the 3/4 t-molding looks great on it and since it is on wheels, the weight really doesn't matter.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2002, 08:13:45 pm »

I used 3/4 MDF. Really easy to work with. I used my dremel alot on my cabinet. Pics are posted through out the boards. It makes alot of fine sawdust though, be ready for that.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2002, 08:24:36 pm »

Something you need to know about mdf. It is much easier to work with but it has two drawbacks.

#1 It doesn't like water.
#2 It's definately not as durable as plywood and wont' last you a life time unless it's never moved and laminated.

I used plywood. My cabinet is as heavy as a brick and I could drop it off of a building and I think it would survive. Btw the warping thing isn't and issue unless you don't know how to brace stuff properly.

SNAAAKE · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2002, 10:39:19 pm »

okay...i am pretty much done with the new cabinet..i did first one with particle board...NOT GOOD...

then the second cabinet is made out of PRE LAMINATE...looks very nice...why i went this way?becasue
1)it was cheap..i got 2 4x8 sheets for $50..local lumber..and i got it cut(10 cuts for free).
2)one 4x8 laminate sheet cost $27.too much

..you do the math..if you buy them seperate then you would have to buy the wood,contact cement and the laminate ofcourse.
3)dont have to paint.
4)i cut the whole thing using a $20 jigsaw.very easy to work with.it still particle board inside.
5)heavy but stable.not many arcade machines are made out of 5/8 wood...i think it is still too thin.
6)it was the best looking in the lumber store...too bad they did not have black..i bought white laminate wood......

i might have went with MDF..but then you gotta paint and it dont look right..

also ply wood dont look very good by itself,unless you stick some laminate...even you paint it..its not smooth...also it breaks too...depends what saw you are using..

Bob Sanders · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2002, 01:14:47 am »

you can laminate mdf

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2002, 09:05:43 am »

plywood looks great painted it gives that wood grained feel of the classic cabs. Of course if you buy the cheap stuff, then yeah it's gonna look awful, you need to get furniture grade plywood. And all of these materials can break during construction. Actually plywood is the least likely to break as mdf and laminate are pressed wood and made up of tiny bits.

Btw this might get a rise out of people but DO NOT use 5/8 inch board. The only real arcade cabinets that used 5/8 were the nintendo cabs which are infamous for their poor design. All of your t-molding, joysticks and other accessories are more readily available in 3/4 inch sizes. Not to mention the fact that if it's 5/8 inch and in any way laminated it resembles the cheap modular furniture you buy at walmart.

It's like I said before.... very simple decision.

Mdf is more fragile and prone to water damage, plywood is more robust but heavy and sometimes hard to work with.

Classic cabs were almost always made out of plywood. The newer cabs were made out of laminated mdf. (For cost reasons I believe.)

What do you want your cab to look like and which attributes of the two materials do you need most? It's as simple as that, we could be here all day arguing over it.

mr.Curmudgeon · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2002, 03:02:58 pm »

Not to beat a dead horse here...

but if moisture is a problem in your house (who knows why?!) the company I linked to in my previous post also makes a moisture resistant MDF....

HMR Thinline & Regular Density MDF
GoldenEdge HMR (High Moisture Resistance)

I think I'm going to mention it to the guy that wants to build a cab for his bathroom...

mrC

mw · « **Reply #12 on:** July 01, 2002, 10:52:15 am »

I did it all wrong then, I used 5/8" particle board and then painted it.

Actually I'm pretty satisfied with it so far. The particle board made a nice texture on the exterior. It's very sturdy, I can stand on it. Moved it up the stairs and it's still square (bump bump bump). I wasn't sure weather I was going to make it all the way up the stairs though.

jelloslug · « **Reply #13 on:** July 01, 2002, 11:35:59 am »

One thing to remember is that particle board and MDF are not the same thing. Particle board is made of compresed sawdust and glue, and MDF is made more like paper with many layers of fibers and it is highly compressed. MDF also has a much smoother surface and is quiet a bit more water resistant, it will hold screws better and is much easier to machine than particle board. Cheap furniture from Wal-Mart is made of partile board, I have never seen furniture made of MDF. I made my upright out of particle board and it took tons of filler to get it smooth enough to paint, my cocktail on the other hand is made of MDF and it only took 2 coats of paint to get an excelent pant job.

Mike D. · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2002, 11:10:40 am »

Quote

brianleb · « **Reply #15 on:** July 10, 2002, 08:02:39 pm »

Referring to what Howard Casto said, how\where does one get MDF laminated and how much might this cost? thanks.

1UP · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2002, 12:46:12 pm »

Quote

Referring to what Howard Casto said, how\where does one get MDF laminated and how much might this cost? thanks.

I think you just buy some Formica/Wilsonart laminate and do it yourself.

1UP · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2002, 02:30:37 am »

It seems everyone has their favorite candidate for best wood, but I guess it depends on what you're doing. If you're painting, MDF may be the best choice, but if you're laminating, just about anything will do.

BTW, I'm still not sure why moisture is such a hot issue with some of you. I've lived with cheap particle board furniture all my life--everything my parents had was either second hand or from K-mart! Sure I've seen particle board practically crumble to dust after 5 years of neglect in a leaky shed, but I've never seen furniture of any kind deteriorate just from moisture in the air.

We had a "fake woodgrain" particle board entertainment center where we used to play the Atari 2600! Never fell apart. Lasted thru 5 kids, 2 carpets, 3 VCRs and countless game systems. They gave it to my sister when I gave them my old entertainment center a few years back, when I upgraded from Sears to Ikea (still cheap particle board, but at least it looks better). As far as I know, the old one is still in decent shape 20 years later...

Also, aren't people all over the country standing on particle board flooring? Walking, stomping, spilling, etc? Do those floors have to be thrown out every 5-10 years because people are dropping through them?

I went with 3/4" black melamine. I'm still in construction, but I'm liking the results so far, if only for the finish! It's going to look really pro when I laminate the sides with yellow Wilsonart. I got the recommendation for melamine from a professional cabinet maker who contended that it's the best kept secret. I'm cutting all the edges with a router and straight-cutter bit with the bearing at the top. Follows any straight edge or template with a super-smooth finish. Well worth the investment! Don't know why I even need the circular saw...just for cutting 2x4's I guess...

Troy · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2002, 05:32:00 pm »

1-UP - What size router bit did you use?

1UP · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2002, 01:16:11 am »

Quote from: Troy on July 19, 2002, 05:32:00 pm

1-UP - What size router bit did you use?

For the cutting, I used a 1/2" x 1" carbide tipped straight cutter with top mounted bearing, which allows you to follow a template or straight edge without damaging it. In my case, I used the finished side panel as a template to cut the second panel, making the two a perfect match. I haven't cut the slots for the t- molsing yet, but I'll be doing that tomorrow with a 1/16" slot cutter.

Troy · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2002, 11:28:45 pm »

Thanks 1-Up. Three more questions for you, if you so please:

1. Where did you get those two bits? Home Depot/Lowe's, your local lumber yard, or online?

2. About how much did they cost you?

3. When you used the bit in the router, did you cut the panels out in one time around, or did you route 1/2 of the board and then the other half?

Thanks for your help. I'm going down to get my Melamine tomorrow, so I just want to make sure I also get the correct tools to cut it.

Troy

SNAAAKE · « **Reply #21 on:** July 21, 2002, 01:44:28 am »

i cut with jigsaw.if you cant afford router or other stuff...sharp tooth jigsaw blade also work.just a thought.

1UP · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2002, 09:59:04 pm »

Quote from: Troy on July 20, 2002, 11:28:45 pm

Thanks 1-Up. Three more questions for you, if you so please:

1. Where did you get those two bits? Home Depot/Lowe's, your local lumber yard, or online?

2. About how much did they cost you?

3. When you used the bit in the router, did you cut the panels out in one time around, or did you route 1/2 of the board and then the other half?

Thanks for your help. I'm going down to get my Melamine tomorrow, so I just want to make sure I also get the correct tools to cut it.

Troy

1. Home Depot

2. Dunno...they were somewhere between $15 and $25 I think...

3. I marked my panels with a white china marker, then I used a straight board as my guide, making one cut at a time. Once the first board was cut, I clamped it to the second board, and cut out the front half, moved the clamps, and cut out the back half. Make sure your boards still line up when you move the clamps and you'll be fine.

One word of warnining: on close inspection, I found that the edges of my cuts had slight bumps/irregularities and were not perfectly straight and clean. This is because I used the raw edge of a factory-cut board as my guide. A cleaner guide would have given a cleaner cut, but I didn't bother to think of this. You might want to have a guide board with a nice sanded edge. Also, any imperfections in your first cut will be copied exactly to the other board when you use it as a template, so make sure you clean up any bumps with sanding etc. I'm just going to go back and clamp my boards together again, and sand them with a 1/4 sheet sander ($40 at Home Depot) The difference might not really be that noticable with the t-molding in place, but I'm a damn anal perfectionist!

Good luck.

Darkade · « **Reply #23 on:** July 27, 2002, 07:51:17 pm »

Quote from: 1UP on July 13, 2002, 12:46:12 pm

Quote
Referring to what Howard Casto said, how\where does one get MDF laminated and how much might this cost? thanks.

I think you just buy some Formica/Wilsonart laminate and do it yourself.

True. I laminated my whole Control Box and Panel with some laminate from Home depot and some contact cement. It only took about 5 minutes and it looks great and cost about 15 bucks.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #24 on:** July 27, 2002, 09:41:55 pm »

Quote from: 1UP on July 14, 2002, 02:30:37 am

Also, aren't people all over the country standing on particle board flooring?

1UP · « **Reply #25 on:** July 29, 2002, 05:16:54 am »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on July 27, 2002, 09:41:55 pm

I can't belive I missed this. Actually yeah the average life span of a particle board floor is about 5-10 years. Ask anyone who owns a mobile home. After about 10 years the floors start to sag and they have to be replaced.

Thanks for clearing this up. But since a cabinet is not being walked on all the time, is there any comparison here? Are wheels, laminate and t-molding enough to keep melamine (or regular particle board) from falling apart in 10 years? Dammit, don't make me tear apart my cab and rebuild it with plywood when I'm soooo close!!

And no, I don't own a house, but when I do I'll make sure to ask if the floors are particle board...

jelloslug · « **Reply #26 on:** July 29, 2002, 08:15:10 am »

Quitck note on the particleboard floor topic. Most houses that have particle board floors have a layer of plywood underneath the particle board. The particle board is there to make the floor solid feeling and reduce squeeking. This type of setup will last forever (except in a bathroom). Older (or cheaper) moble homes that use particle board for flooring only had the particle board and the floor rotted away quickly.

neuromancer · « **Reply #27 on:** July 29, 2002, 11:13:38 am »

Quote from: 1UP on July 29, 2002, 05:16:54 am

Quote from: Howard_Casto on July 27, 2002, 09:41:55 pm

I can't belive I missed this. Actually yeah the average life span of a particle board floor is about 5-10 years. Ask anyone who owns a mobile home. After about 10 years the floors start to sag and they have to be replaced.

Thanks for clearing this up. But since a cabinet is not being walked on all the time, is there any comparison here? Are wheels, laminate and t-molding enough to keep melamine (or regular particle board) from falling apart in 10 years? Dammit, don't make me tear apart my cab and rebuild it with plywood when I'm soooo close!!

And no, I don't own a house, but when I do I'll make sure to ask if the floors are particle board...

My cabinet *is* particle board. It is an old Vanguard machine, so it must date back to 1981. The panels show no signs of deterioration.

Bob
South Carolina

1UP · « **Reply #28 on:** July 29, 2002, 09:47:01 pm »

Quote from: neuromancer on July 29, 2002, 11:13:38 am

My cabinet *is* particle board. It is an old Vanguard machine, so it must date back to 1981. The panels show no signs of deterioration.

Bob
South Carolina

Yay! I'm off work this week, so if I can just keep from knocking off any more corners, I might actually have my cabinet pretty much built this week! Never build your cab on an apartment balcony... $:-\$

Kemet · « **Reply #29 on:** August 05, 2009, 04:19:38 am »

Bit of a newbie resurrection (7 years later)on this but having used both high quality solid wood and inexpensive composites I have found that there is no real difference on the result. Most people couldnt tell the difference between genius and garbage Its only a matter of your level of skill (I could make each look the same if treated properly. This is a matter of budget only.)HIGH ON FIRE


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Author Topic: Wood vs. particle board vs. ?? (Read 14011 times)

Bob Sanders

mw

Mike D.

Troy

Troy